Why Doctors Are Usually Worthless (Minor Rant)

[Ed209]

What I simply can't understand is why some of them haven't developed T already.

The damage is cumulative so many of them will realise when they get older. There is also a genetic factor at play; some people can take more abuse than others, and it seems some just don't seem to develop tinnitus at all. Other people just have hearing loss without tinnitus. It's very complicated and not very well understood.

 

[RaZaH]

Too bad that the TMJ specialist will probably turn out to be a dick as well.
My estimate is 97% chances of dickery .

 

[AlexSongitus]

There is no way that headphones will ever be banned above a certain volume and I don't believe they should. The key is education, then it's up to people to excise their freedom to do as they wish. I believe there should be a limit in clubs (it won't ever happen though) and I also believe there should be disclaimer notices at the doors of clubs warning that you could irreversibly damage your hearing and acquire tinnitus by entering their premises.

Why bother campaigning against smoking for example when you could just ban cigarettes? Banning everything isn't always the answer; education is. Once the mass population know what's going on headphones would be used differently and sales could even drop. Either way damage limitation would occur.

I have no idea how the US insurance system works with regards to hearing aids etc but you do get hearing aids in the UK on the NHS for hearing loss.

You have to remember we are dealing with different countries and each has their own way of dealing with things, but what seems to be consistent is the huge lack of education around the subject of tinnitus. This includes the medical community as well as the general public.

No, they shouldn't ban headphones. I agree, that is silly. But I do have to question why there isn't a warning label, that it may cause Tinnitus or hearing loss, especially ear buds, from overexposure to dangerous Db levels or prolonged exposure to high Db levels.

If you go rent a jackhammer, they tell you to wear ear plugs. Tinnitus or hearing loss doesn't care if the sound doing the damage is an annoying jackhammer sound or a pleasant song, your favorite song! Companies and the government are very aware of providing ear protection for their construction workers, but are too ignorant to realize, it makes no difference what the sound actually is. Just the loudness. Headphones, especially earbuds, can easily surpass the Db levels you get from using a jackhammer.

 

[truesilence]

No, they shouldn't ban headphones. I agree, that is silly. But I do have to question why there isn't a warning label, that it may cause Tinnitus or hearing loss, especially ear buds, from overexposure to dangerous Db levels or prolonged exposure to high Db levels.

If you go rent a jackhammer, they tell you to wear ear plugs. Tinnitus or hearing loss doesn't care if the sound doing the damage is an annoying jackhammer sound or a pleasant song, your favorite song! Companies and the government are very aware of providing ear protection for their construction workers, but are too ignorant to realize, it makes no difference what the sound actually is. Just the loudness. Headphones, especially earbuds, can easily surpass the Db levels you get from using a jackhammer.

iPhones have red bars clearly indicating ' dangerous levels' when increasing volume. Apple have their ass covered.

 

[Ed209]

iPhones have red bars clearly indicating ' dangerous levels' when increasing volume. Apple have their ass covered.

The problem with the red bars is they don't work. Kids probably think it means the cool zone or something. They should pause the music and display a warning message explaining the danger, to continue you have to press ok or cancel to take it back to safe levels. Something like that leaves little doubt that you have gotten the message across.

 

[Natalie Roberts]

I feel you. I saw private ENT a week after onset who sent me for a hearing test but basically blew me off and said it would most likely go away. Then I waited a month and got in with another ent who was referred by the audiologist place. She checked my ears, listened to my symptoms and sympathetically nodded while I sobbed. She then brushed me off and said there's nothing wrong with my ears and maybe it would go away after pregnancy or maybe it wouldn't, she couldn't say for sure. She referred me to an audiologist for TRT if it got worse.

5 months later I'm still here after delivering with no relief. Spoke to my primary dr about this and asked for an MRI. He told me my symptoms don't warrant an MRI (same thing the ENt said). He thinks mine is related to pregnancy and is hopeful it will go away on its own. Sent me on my way with no info. I do have TMJ so I spoke with my specialist about that. He said tinnitus can absolutely be caused by jaw issues but said my jaw shouldn't be causing the issues since I use a customized appliance. He was also sympathetic but no help.


So I finally bit the bullet and scheduled an appointment for the tinnitus specialists here for $200 consultation. Doubt it will be any help but I feel like I need another opinion. Hopefully it's Not another waste of time and money.

 

[Ed209]

I feel you. I saw private ENT a week after onset who sent me for a hearing test but basically blew me off and said it would most likely go away. Then I waited a month and got in with another ent who was referred by the audiologist place. She checked my ears, listened to my symptoms and sympathetically nodded while I sobbed. She then brushed me off and said there's nothing wrong with my ears and maybe it would go away after pregnancy or maybe it wouldn't, she couldn't say for sure. She referred me to an audiologist for TRT if it got worse.

5 months later I'm still here after delivering with no relief. Spoke to my primary dr about this and asked for an MRI. He told me my symptoms don't warrant an MRI (same thing the ENt said). He thinks mine is related to pregnancy and is hopeful it will go away on its own. Sent me on my way with no info. I do have TMJ so I spoke with my specialist about that. He said tinnitus can absolutely be caused by jaw issues but said my jaw shouldn't be causing the issues since I use a customized appliance. He was also sympathetic but no help.


So I finally bit the bullet and scheduled an appointment for the tinnitus specialists here for $200 consultation. Doubt it will be any help but I feel like I need another opinion. Hopefully it's Not another waste of time and money.

I totally understand where you're coming from, it's how a lot of us feel including myself.

The best we can hope for is a thorough testing process (useless in my case) to try and find a cause that can be treated. This is where many fall short. However, if we do find an ENT who is helpful, the sad reality we must face is that unless a cause is found, nothing other than CBT, TRT or counselling can be offered.

 

[Ed209]

It is p'raps worth noting that some countries have done this, eg. the Netherlands:

It's already been noted that countries have this law but its too difficult to enforce. You would still have to be vigilant because there's no guarantee they'd stick to the guidelines. I'd still advise just taking earplugs if you went out.

 

[dboy]

It's already been noted that countries have this law but its too difficult to enforce. You would still have to be vigilant because there's no guarantee they'd stick to the guidelines. I'd still advise just taking earplugs if you went out.

Many laws are difficult to enforce, eg. those against domestic abuse. They are still worth having as they move society in the right direction. I'd have thought established venues who wish to retain a license would comply as they do with anti-smoking legislation (UK). The passage from the TT member I quoted indicated that some venues went above and beyond, handing out free earplugs and voluntarily restricting volume further. Perhaps this is evidence of how legislation can raise awareness and influence social norms. I don't think anyone said it would be perfect 100% protection - of course you take your own earplugs if you are clued up.

Having said the above, I'm not totally sure what we are trying to establish here and I find arguing about hypotheticals fairly pointless and frustrating, so I'll butt out now.

 

[Ed209]

Many laws are difficult to enforce, eg. those against domestic abuse. They are still worth having as they move society in the right direction. I'd have thought established venues who wish to retain a license would comply as they do with anti-smoking legislation (UK). The passage from the TT member I quoted indicated that some venues went above and beyond, handing out free earplugs and voluntarily restricting volume further. Perhaps this is evidence of how legislation can raise awareness and influence social norms. I don't think anyone said it would be perfect 100% protection - of course you take your own earplugs if you are clued up.

Having said the above, I'm not totally sure what we are trying to establish here and I find arguing about hypotheticals fairly pointless and frustrating, so I'll butt out now.

I'm not saying the laws are not worth having by any means (I would welcome the change) but realistically I doubt much would change at all. Laws like these are simply ignored, just like speed laws on the roads. The only thing you can do is look after your own ears by wearing defenders or avoiding stupidly loud bars and clubs. Just don't rely on a law to help you out.

Local gig venues already sell ear plugs round by me now but nobody ever buys them. All I am saying is people need to be educated on the dangers of loud sound. It's as simple as that; more TV ads and magazine/newspaper coverage to raise awareness because it is criminally quiet. Other issues get A LOT of attention and the general public get the message. Tinnitus/hearing loss on the other hand is rising and the government(s) are not informing people appropriately. If this was the case you may find the strength of people in numbers forcing the issue a little and making the volume come down by market demand if you can create a tipping point.

This can only happen once you enlighten the masses.

 

[Fangen]

Local gig venues already sell ear plugs round by me now but nobody ever buys them. All I am saying is people need to be educated on the dangers of loud sound. It's as simple as that; more TV ads and magazine/newspaper coverage to raise awareness because it is criminally quiet. Other issues get A LOT of attention and the general public get the message.

You know the funny thing? The week after my T started, or not even a week, like a few days later, a health magazine (produced by the government) had a new theme of the month. On it, it said "TINNITUS". Life is cruel. But yes, maybe I wouldn't have even read the magazine if I had not got T, maybe I would and I wouldn't really care about protecting my ears anyway. It is hard to be afraid of something that you have no perception of. We don't worry about getting chronic diseases everyday because we kind of think like "that's won't happen to me". And I suppose that is sort of the mentality of the general public, like with the plugs offered at the gigs. Nobody think they are the one that might get T, it is just something that "happens to other people". I just felt like I should have known better in hindsight, but maybe it wasn't "why" but rather "when" I would develop T. I can imagine that going in the lifestyle (headphone everywhere with mid-loud music) for years was not leading on a path to somewhere good. But again, maybe I would have gotten T much later or not at all once I lost interest in music. There is a million questions that never will have a good answer, but my point (drifting away little) is that sometimes the government can do a lot to enlighten the masses, but it is still hard to make people understand that they are in the danger zone. T is like I mentioned, "things that happens to other but not to me".

 

[Fangen]

iPhones have red bars clearly indicating ' dangerous levels' when increasing volume. Apple have their ass covered.

My Samsung phone had that warning too, if I did not pay attention to it at all. Just clicked away it once, and it won't come up again unless I restart my phone. Which I never do. I feel like a complete idiot now, there were warnings but I didn't care. It didn't occur to me that I could get T, that I was not immortal. I hate myself from time to time for being stupid, but there is nothing to do about it now. But yeah.. I should have know better and there is no one else to blame but myself for this..

 

[Ed209]

You know the funny thing? The week after my T started, or not even a week, like a few days later, a health magazine (produced by the government) had a new theme of the month. On it, it said "TINNITUS". Life is cruel. But yes, maybe I wouldn't have even read the magazine if I had not got T, maybe I would and I wouldn't really care about protecting my ears anyway. It is hard to be afraid of something that you have no perception of. We don't worry about getting chronic diseases everyday because we kind of think like "that's won't happen to me". And I suppose that is sort of the mentality of the general public, like with the plugs offered at the gigs. Nobody think they are the one that might get T, it is just something that "happens to other people". I just felt like I should have known better in hindsight, but maybe it wasn't "why" but rather "when" I would develop T. I can imagine that going in the lifestyle (headphone everywhere with mid-loud music) for years was not leading on a path to somewhere good. But again, maybe I would have gotten T much later or not at all once I lost interest in music. There is a million questions that never will have a good answer, but my point (drifting away little) is that sometimes the government can do a lot to enlighten the masses, but it is still hard to make people understand that they are in the danger zone. T is like I mentioned, "things that happens to other but not to me".

I agree with you Fangen; humans are funny things. That being said, I believe an awareness campaign targeted in the right way, would bring about changes over the next couple of decades. The first hurdle is the "cool" nonsense that plagues people. People constantly worrying about how others perceive them, and in turn avoiding safety measures in order to fit in with the majority. We still have tribal instincts, so our mission to fit in sometimes gets in the way.

One case study I would use as an example is cycle helmets. In the UK 20 years ago hardly anyone used a helmet. Even though everyone knew the risks; we were essentially risking our lives to fit in and be cool. Fast forward to now and a corner has been turned. The number of people wearing helmets is vastly higher, and because of this shift, the fitting in (cool) factor is no longer a real problem. With this difference, younger people especially, are far more likely to use a helmet now then when I was a kid.

Imagine the same thing with ear plugs and ear safety. At first it's uncool so no one bothers. Create a culture, by educating enough people to use them, and the rest of society will slowly start to follow. Especially once the tipping point is reached, whereby a large percentage of people start to use them. The rest will jump on the bandwagon.

 

[Fangen]

Imagine the same thing with ear plugs and ear safety. At first it's uncool so no one bothers. Create a culture, by educating enough people to use them, and the rest of society will slowly start to follow. Especially once the tipping point is reached, whereby a large percentage of people start to use them. The rest will jump on the bandwagon.

I agree. I am not saying in any way that it is not worth to raise awareness to. But it takes time before that change happens, like with the helmets. In the years it takes to raise awareness and make people think about their hearing, there will be a lot of people that will be new sufferers to T. And no matter, it will be sad to see a generation to grow up with T, but hopefully it will also make doctors to realize that there need to be a cure or some kind of progress within T and the science behind it since so many will have it.

 

[Nick Pyzik]

Just wanted to lift this off my chest.

I went to a GP today to get a referral to a TMJ specialist, maybe I don't have TMJ or maybe I do, I just want to do what I can to rule things out and at least get some peace.

The doctor was an idiot. He asked me questions why I thought I needed the referral and then as soon I started to answer, he just cut me off. Did that maybe 5-7 times before I got irritated and nicely asked him to stop interrupt me. His whole body language and tone were just "you don't know anything and you are just making things up". I had to argue for my sake and eventually he hesitantly gave me the referral. Then gave me a 10 min speech why this was of no use to me anyways.
He also told me that jaws don't have anything to do with T. That T comes from fluid behind my ears.
T IS CAUSED BY FLUID BEHIND THE EARS. And noises. That are the two only causes for T.
I hope you understand that I got really freaking pissed off but kept my calm. He said that and then behaved like I was making this up, that I had no reason to go to a TMJ specialist because it has nothing to do with my T.

The other GP I saw a few weeks ago was just telling me about her Madonna concert and how loud it was and then told me that AD are so great, that I might consider to get them to ease my mind. I came there to ask for CBT, why the hell would you want to put somebody that is relatively young on AD? I am feeling good enough that I can carry out my work, pay my bills, living fairy decent but need help to get over those dips that I get all the time and the fear of having worse T. How can you not be educated enough to know that AD are not good for you unless you are in a really tough situation, and they are freaking oxidant which is BAD for your T.

Sorry for the rant guys but I am getting really fed up seeing doctors that knows NOTHING about T at all. Like telling me that the world is flat even though there are clear evidence that it is round. Then refusing to look at the evidence and then act like I am a nutjob.
I hope the TMJ specialist is good, she seems like she knows a lot about T and has worked with that a lot.

Fangen, I know exactly how you're feeling with what you went through. I've seen close to a dozen doctors whether it be audiologists or neurologists or just a Medical Doctor. None of them either understood what I was explaining or just didn't care at all. I've come to realize that most of them just want you in and then out and will just give you what their opinion on the situation is while then prescribing whatever medication or surgery to help. I understand that's whats needed for many other diseases or medical issues but not this one.

It had gotten to the point where I was discovering more information online through articles and documents than an audiologist or neurologist could explain to me in a short expensive visit. It's now my time to try and become a researcher and discover what Tinnitus really is involved with and to understand how important hearing is for our brain a little bit better.

I can explain to you what I truly believe has happened to your hearing and why your hear ringing but that's all I've been doing on this site for the past 4 months. It's time I actually work hands on with this unknown disease and have some actual proof behind my strong theories.

If you have "Tinnitus" from acoustic trauma or otherwise being at a loud concert then you most certainly have hidden hearing loss. Damage to the synapses of the auditory nerve which are connected to the hair cells of the cochlea. Concerts are SO loud. The sound waves are amplified so much. The delicate mechanisms of our hearing system weren't meant to take such a beating and that's why many people suffer from ringing after a loud event. The neurons of that make up the auditory nerve can easily be damaged through noise.

I hope that things work out for you in the end though. Do whatever you can to contribute to the race to find cures for hearing. Our sense of hearing connects us to the world itself but only if the mechanisms are working properly.

http://hyperacusisfocus.org/innerear/

http://www.tinnitus.org.uk/tinnitus-and-hidden-hearing-loss