Why Does Anybody Get Involved with Drug Therapy for This Wretched Condition?

[Lane]

why does anybody get involved with drug therapy for this wretched condition, if it can make matters worse?

I think @john paul's succinct reply "desperation" just about wraps it up. Shortly after my t started in Feb., I was having a very hard time sleeping, resting, and coping, so I talked with my doctor about a prescription for the lowest dose valium. He suggested Lorazpam instead, as it had a shorter half life. I got the lowest dose, cut it into quarters, took one, settled into a nap, and woke up with a seizure (mild) about a half hour later. Never took another dose, and the seizure might have been a blessing in disguise, as it stopped that experiment in its tracks.

I don't have any problem at all however with experimenting with various drugs. The problem I have is that they're not approached nearly carefully enough by most doctors. I don't think they start out at low enough dosages, or monitor it closely enough after drug therapy is started. -- For me, I think my Lorazapam seizure resulted from having erratic stuff going on in my brain and neurological system because of a highly stimulated auditory cortex, which was most likely overly stimulating adjacent parts of my brain. And my brain reacted violently. -- I don't agree with the notion that physically speaking, "tinnitus can't hurt us".​

 

[Samantha R]

@Starthrower
I think your post is so well written and really resonates with me.

I have a friend who's OCD was so bad, she was being driven insane. I was in the car with her one night when we hit a pothole. No big deal to me, but she thought she'd hit someone. Nothing I could say could have changed her mind. We had to get out of the car and look for this 'person' everywhere. We drove around for half an hour, and checked in bushes, behind trees, in driveways, it was crazy. Of course we didn't hit anyone or any animal, but she hysterically believed we had.

She had to get help, and Zoloft literally saved her sanity. She still has OCD to a degree, but not as debilitating as she did have it.

The same with tinnitus. Some people simply cannot cope with the noise and the resulting anxiety and depression. Drugs, when properly used under expert medical supervision, can help.
I am glad you got help from drugs, and you can speak positively on how they saved you.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

@Jazzer I am so deeply sorry for your losses, and I can understand why you have the strong feelings towards drugs that you do. Experiencing tragedy like this is hard to imagine.
I wonder if the doctors prescribing this medication are culpable aslo, if their follow up with their patients is satisfactory, if they even fully understand the medication and it's effects.

 

[Michael Leigh]

The same with tinnitus. Some people simply cannot cope with the noise and the resulting anxiety and depression. Drugs, when properly used under expert medical supervision, can help.
I am glad you got help from drugs, and you can speak positively on how they saved you.

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments @Samantha R and thank you for writing such an informative post. I hope people visiting this forum who are having a difficult time coping with tinnitus read it, and are able to see that medication/drugs for helping people cope with tinnitus can be very helpful and not harmful as some people believe. I also want to echo your sentiments and condolences to @Jazzer for his loss.

Tinnitus comes in many forms and intensities and no two people experience it the same. When it is mild or moderate a lot of people are able to habituate to it with time and carry on with their life doing everything that they want to with relative ease. However, when this condition becomes severe and this level of intensity is sustained, it can become seriously debilitating to a person's emotional wellbeing and state of mind. It is for this reason I believe medication / drug therapy can be of immense help in preventing a person from becoming too stressed, anxious which if not held in check can lead to depression. Under these circumstances people have been known to take steps in causing their own demise. I once helped to counsel someone that contemplated such an action using a ligature.

In 2010 my tinnitus reached very severe levels and it was one of the lowest points of my life coping with tinnitus. My ENT consultant prescribed me clonazepam and advised me not to take it too often and asked my GP to closely monitor how much I was taking. I will always be immensely thankful to her, because I was at my lowest ebb and don't know what I would have done if I didn't get some relief from the cacophony of noise that was with me 24/7.

I am presently helping to counsel someone that is going through a very difficult time with tinnitus. This person has been reluctant to try medication to help cope with the stress and anxiety that is often associated with severe tinnitus. The truth of the matter is this: When tinnitus is severe and this level of intensity sustained for any length of time, it is capable of wearing a person down no matter how positive they try to be. The only treatments at this time to help a person with tinnitus are: counselling which includes TRT , CBT , sound therapy, relaxation exercises and medication. Sometimes one or a combination of these treatments can go a long way in helping a person to manage their tinnitus more effectively.

Michael

 

[Lane]

Drugs, when properly used under expert medical supervision, can help. -- I wonder if the doctors prescribing this medication are culpable also, if their follow up with their patients is satisfactory, if they even fully understand the medication and it's effects.

Hi @Samantha R,

I think you've just touched on the crux of the issue. From my understanding, it used to be that only professional psychologists could prescribe medications for various kinds of "mental disorders". With the advent of Prozac in 1987, teams of pharmaceutical sales representatives were sent out in droves with a number of various (often nefarious) incentives for doctors to begin prescribing their product. Most doctors came to believe they could--with very little to no training--diagnose and prescribe powerful medications that they knew close to nothing about.

Interestingly--but not coincidentally in my view--at about the same time, the very serious and debilitating neurological/immunological condition of Myalgic Encephamayalitis (also known by the misnomer Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) came to be diagnosed by most mainstream doctors as depression. They would then almost always push antidepressents on people with CFS who came to them for help. When these patients tried to tell their doctors they were not depressed, but very sick, the doctors placed labels on them such as "treatment resistant patients".

I mention this because there is an awful lot of overlap between CFS and tinnitus. In short, in tinnitus there's some kind of faulty interplay between the ears and the brain. In CFS, there's some kind of faulty interplay between the brain and the immune system (and much more). Both conditions are poorly understood. Various drugs have their place in treating both, but they should not be automatically relied on as the first course of treatment. If the situation justifies their use, they should be used judiciously, and prescribed by a professional who's had the thorough training required to prescribe them properly. Unfortunately, that just doesn't seem to be the case for most doctors.​

 

[glynis]

@Starthrower ,
I hope you stay and keep posting and supporting members.
love glynis

 

[Jazzer]

"Noise Destroys Lives"

Dave

 

[Jazzer]

I dont know how much I can endure. Mine is just so loud. It is so loud that I can hear it everywhere just not thee shower. I miss my mild tinnitus

I am with you dpdx.
I have heard my T over every noise, over every scenario, for four years now.
It has never dampened down, it is totally intrusive, and completely unmaskable.
If I'm in the shower, there are two showers going.

The reality is that I have to accept that it will always be there.

I personally will take no drugs for it.
I am pleased of course that they have helped other sufferers, we need all the help we can get, but psychiatric drugs complicated my life before, and I do not trust them.
They did nothing to lift my depression.

We all listen to the accounts from other people, but those indelibly imprinted on our minds are the actual experiences 'we have had.'

Perhaps I should not have asked such a contentious question.

Your predicament is on my mind my friend.
If I was a believer, I would be praying for you and me both right now.
But as things are I can only send you my love, my concern, and my very best wishes.
You deserve so much better,
- So Do We All....x

Dave
xx

 

[brownbear]

Medication helped me immensely too. Nothing else had helped, including CBT and a lot of psychology input.

I always worry about writing things on here because of fear of reprisals, but I wanted to make a comment. I know all you guys are trying to help each other, but it will be very hard for you to PROPERLY move on, if you continue to describe tinnitus in such catastrophic terms. There is a problem here with my logic as I found my T totally catastrophic and I would never want to downplay the misery it can bring. However, for an individual to recover I think it is essential to try to reach a point where you find these ridiculous sounds in our heads less serious for you. That doesn't mean you don't care anymore.

I am not sure that some of the veterans on here have recovered as well as they perhaps could have done, given the language they continue to use to describe their T.

 

[TracyJS]

I am in a situation now where I am unable to manage the severe anxiety I am experiencing which is mostly likely making my tinnitus much much worse. I am trying other methods, but my anxiety is extreme. I am in agony every day and as I have already expressed in my posts, I don't know how much more I can take. I need relief. And yet after reading everything here about medication, I'm terrified to take something for fear it will make tinnitus worse for me. This just increases my anxiety and despair because I feel there's no hope for help.

 

[jimH]

@TracyJS

Are you still alone right now? Because you need someone there to support and help you get through this crisis. If you are alone, who is there in your family or perhaps a close friend that can come and stay with you for a while? Someone that can go with you to the doctor and encourage you take the prescribed medication. I know that you already have medication on hand but are too overwhelmed by anxiety and fear to take it.

You've been at the "desperation point" for a while now. Many of us on the Forum are very concerned about you.

 

[BobbyH]

And yet after reading everything here about medication, I'm terrified to take something for fear it will make tinnitus worse for me. This just increases my anxiety and despair because I feel there's no hope for help.

Here lies the issue. Depression/anxiety and tinnitus can be inextricably linked. Medication and/or psychological therapy may the way to begin breaking that link. This is what I'm going through now.

What @TracyJS has now, that I don't think I have is fear and fear begets stress that will increase awareness of the sounds in our head. We spiral downward because of fear. So @TracyJS , I think the point is that what you read here is not gospel....for the most part it's our personal stories because sharing "may" be helpful. Unless supported by good research and citations, it simply is sharing and, because that's what it is, we take what is helpful and discard the rest.

I hope you are able to work past your fear.

Take care,
Bobby

 

[SugarMagnolia]

I have a friend who's OCD was so bad, she was being driven insane. I was in the car with her one night when we hit a pothole. No big deal to me, but she thought she'd hit someone. Nothing I could say could have changed her mind. We had to get out of the car and look for this 'person' everywhere. We drove around for half an hour, and checked in bushes, behind trees, in driveways, it was crazy. Of course we didn't hit anyone or any animal, but she hysterically believed we had.

She had to get help, and Zoloft literally saved her sanity. She still has OCD to a degree, but not as debilitating as she did have it

Thank you for explaining the reality of OCD. Many people seem to think it's the same thing as phobia. Even here, where everyone means well, lots of people think phonophobia is OCD. They have no idea the kind of thoughts - bizarre alien thoughts - live in the OCD brain. I don't go into detail about my OCD thoughts because I know how strange they sound to other people. But to me, these thoughts are so powerful that they are stronger than my knowledge that they are irrational. When OCD is especially bad, they no longer seem irrational. Instead, they seem like real thoughts.

I'm glad the SSRI helped your friend, but I remain highly skeptical about the use of SSRI's for OCD. I do not believe OCD is purely a serotonin issue as it is with depression. I believe antidepressants are prescribed because there is no drug for OCD and they want to sell people something. The fact that some people report improvement with SSRI's is seen as evidence of their mysterious efficacy. But I wonder if a placebo combined with CBT would not produce the same amount of improved cases. Personally I found the side effects of the one pill I swallowed to be horrific. (Don't even ask.) I flushed them right down the toilet and have dealt with my OCD au natural since then.

 

[TracyJS]

@TracyJS

Are you still alone right now? Because you need someone there to support and help you get through this crisis. If you are alone, who is there in your family or perhaps a close friend that can come and stay with you for a while? Someone that can go with you to the doctor and encourage you take the prescribed medication. I know that you already have medication on hand but are too overwhelmed by anxiety and fear to take it.

You've been at the "desperation point" for a while now. Many of us on the Forum are very concerned about you.

Unfortunately, I don't have someone who can stay with me right now or assume that role of helping me with the medication.
I have to figure it out on my own, if I can.

 

[fishbone]

I am in a situation now where I am unable to manage the severe anxiety I am experiencing which is mostly likely making my tinnitus much much worse. I am trying other methods, but my anxiety is extreme. I am in agony every day and as I have already expressed in my posts, I don't know how much more I can take. I need relief. And yet after reading everything here about medication, I'm terrified to take something for fear it will make tinnitus worse for me. This just increases my anxiety and despair because I feel there's no hope for help.

I have had anxiety on and off in my life. It's been hell for me and I can relate to your issue. I have gotten through anxiety by exercising and support/talking it out with someone who cares (been hard for me to find ). Anxiety is brutal and it can ruin lives. I know from my own experiences just how brutal it can be. Life for me is day by day. I wake up with PAIN all over my body and sometimes say "how the hell can I live like this, PAIN all over my body. LOUD ruthless ringing in the ears. HORRIBLE hearing loss. NO ONE to support me and love me today. I have to make things happen today". All of these dialogues come into my head as I wake up in the morning.

I have 2 choices, either lay in bed and let my life pass me by or take bold action and say screw what is afflicting me...I WILL WIN. I will not let ANYTHING stop me. I prefer the second option. No one will care for me. No one will help me. I either sink or swim. That's my life and it won't change.

I know anxiety is a horrible thing, don't ever give up. I know it's hard right now, don't ever give up. Better days will come, it takes time and effort on our part. I face so many issues right now, it's a bit scary. It's ok I will push through it and things will be ok. Believe that, things will be ok.......

Bless you and all who suffer....

 

[Starthrower]

Oh my buddy @Jazzer you are a dear friend and did not upset me. I need to come back later this afternoon.

The subject is one that I want to address. But it is so hard to tell my truth openly. I have triggers like you that snap inside of me and bring back "those" memories. Not anyone's fault it is something I am still dealing with and need to deal with.

I think we are all one big dysfunctional family but at the core we care for each other. We may disagree and have verbal misunderstandings and I may cuss and stuff at times. But, really we are all trying to find our way with tinnitus.

@TracyJS hold on and think about this. If the anxiety can be dealt with short term for a few weeks or months it is worth it. Tinnitus anxiety is often miss diagnosed as depression or mental illness. Why not try something that will only calm the anxiety first and if that does not work we move on to other sources.

Even though @Michael Leigh and I don't seem to like each other he does have good advice. I think if he were willing we could come to an understanding even if we do not agree on things 100 percent. I am willing. But he won't see my message because I am on the ignore list.

Read his words here and find reassurance. Don't let the shame of having crippling tinnitus anxiety stop you from finding the proper source of help. I cannot get back here until later today. And Tracy, we will find a solution. Remember, I am here and I was just like you back in 2002 - 2004 (ish).

I am presently helping to counsel someone that is going through a very difficult time with tinnitus. This person has been reluctant to try medication to help cope with the stress and anxiety that is often associated with severe tinnitus. The truth of the matter is this: When tinnitus is severe and this level of intensity sustained for any length of time, it is capable of wearing a person down no matter how positive they try to be. The only treatments at this time to help a person with tinnitus are: counselling which includes TRT , CBT , sound therapy, relaxation exercises and medication. Sometimes one or a combination of these treatments can go a long way in helping a person to manage their tinnitus more effectively.

 

[Wolfears]

Once you enter the world of prescription meds, there is no easy way back since they have the potential to spike tinnitus via withdrawal....this is especually true about benzos.

Another thing I would worry about is the fact, that as the body keeps developing more and more tolerance to them at some point there is a ceiling, past which it is no longer safe..
Not sure how long that would take since everyone is different, but in theory one would eventually arrive to the same spot they started from.
If the cure was around the corner, this could buy the tinnirus sufferer some valuable time.
Either way; I would consider AD's and benzo as a last ditch effort, once I knew I had nothing else to lose and the alternative was death.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I am not sure that some of the veterans on here have recovered as well as they perhaps could have done, given the language they continue to use to describe their T.

Your comments are valid and very true @brownbear and I'm pleased that you found medication helpful in coping with your tinnitus. I am a believer in medication to help with tinnitus and use clonazepam, when my tinnitus reaches severe levels. I am veteran to this condition having lived with it for 22 years and habituated twice. The first time took 2 years and the second 4 years.

The habituation process will be different for everyone. Some people think it means the tinnitus will no longer be heard but this is definitely not the case. Habituation means one is able to live with their tinnitus without it impacting or preventing them living and enjoying life. For some people the tinnitus will reduce to a very low level and is hardly ever heard. For others it remains low and the brain comfortably ignores it. My tinnitus has large fluctuations in intensity. From complete silence, mild, moderate, severe and can reach very severe levels where I need clonazepam to calm everything down. I have fully habituated to this which took 4 years. I now accept all of its idiosyncrasies with aplomb and thus, able to live with it quite comfortably. This enables me to try and help others get to a similar place.

Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-habituation-process.20767/

 

[Alex99]

As somebody who has suffered the wrath of Klonopin withdrawal and post-withdrawal symptoms, I agree. I did not think I was going to have a problem because I only used it 34 times during the final months of 2017. My mistake was that I had taken another benzo, Xanax, from 2004 to 2009, and quit. I had no idea that my previous benzo use was/is still in the memory of my central nervous system. I wasn't even taking large doses of Klonopin. Very dangerous stuff.

Sounds like you didn't withdrawl (taper) correctly...& if you only used it prn, but over a few months, that could be 10 + pills a month with a long half life as opposed to xanax (which is the real problem benzo) then yes, should of tapered.

Also what are your post withdrawl symptoms?

 

[john paul]

I have to figure it out on my own, if I can.

Sometimes this is the only way in life, only you know you best and how to go forward in the direction best for you. You must keep going though.

 

[Jazzer]

However, for an individual to recover I think it is essential to try to reach a point where you find these ridiculous sounds in our heads less serious for you. That doesn't mean you don't care anymore.

"This is surely what we are all aiming for...."

 

[Luman]

Sounds like you didn't withdrawl (taper) correctly...& if you only used it prn, but over a few months, that could be 10 + pills a month with a long half life as opposed to xanax (which is the real problem benzo) then yes, should of tapered.

Also what are your post withdrawl symptoms?

@Alex99 My post withdrawal symptoms are depression, fatigue, fear, low appetite, low energy, sleeping problems, intrusive thoughts, and have had other symptoms.

You are correct I did not taper enough from the Klonopin. I ended up using it 15 times in Dec., and thought that tapering would only take a few days. I was very wrong.

It is said that everybody recovers, it's just takes a long time. Other people have taken much larger doses of Klonopin than I, for very long periods, stopped cold turkey or tapered very rapidly, etc, and recovered. That's the only thing that gives me hope.

 

[TuneOut]

I aborted drugs because those available in 1971 made my life worse.

I'm on one of those 1971 drugs you tried: Nardil. For me, it eliminated the depression. It's a powerful drug usually used when other methods have failed. Like all drugs, it has side effects. And it steals your dreams by dramatically reducing REM sleep, which sucks. It brought me out of a bad place at the time. Now I'm thinking of getting off of it or reducing it and see how things go.

 

[Jazzer]

I'm on one of those 1971 drugs you tried: Nardil. For me, it eliminated the depression. It's a powerful drug usually used when other methods have failed. Like all drugs, it has side effects. And it steals your dreams by dramatically reducing REM sleep, which sucks. It brought me out of a bad place at the time. Now I'm thinking of getting off of it or reducing it and see how things go.

Good god - so they are still using that 50+ year old drug?
It did nothing at all for me.

My trick-cyclist told me he had saved his best drug until last.
"You're going to feel really great on this one!!"

My cynical reply was:
"Well that'll make a F***ing change!!"

My childhood isolation from my mentally ill mother left me severely schizoid.
So they thump loads of drugs down my throat??
Will that change my bitter memories that my mother never responded to my crying or my frantic isolated screaming.
What can any chemical do to erase that from my mind.
My relief only came by talking out my heartache in a therapeutic relationship.
Drugs are simply chemicals to me.
Probably a very naive view I suppose.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

My physical pain has become wide spread. There's no one treatment for all my physical pain where I can make conclusive remarks. I need to go on level 3 pain meds and by IV which are very tinnitus toxic. If I just had centralized TMJ physical with stress, then I would try to treat both aspects - but I have many physical conditions. I can't go on with my level of pain, so I need to start IV pain therapy very soon. I will still need some serious operations.

 

[Michael B]

I have sound oasis but my T is so loud that it covers the sound oasis up. It is very severe. I never imagined that the caloric test/vemp can cause so much damage and make me have moderate hearing loss.

I'm assuming you're referring to the Sound Oasis sound machine and I agree. I can hear my tinnitus over the machine but when you play the same sound via a hearing aid, something good happens.

 

[Alex99]

@Alex99 My post withdrawal symptoms are depression, fatigue, fear, low appetite, low energy, sleeping problems, intrusive thoughts, and have had other symptoms.

You are correct I did not taper enough from the Klonopin. I ended up using it 15 times in Dec., and thought that tapering would only take a few days. I was very wrong.

It is said that everybody recovers, it's just takes a long time. Other people have taken much larger doses of Klonopin than I, for very long periods, stopped cold turkey or tapered very rapidly, etc, and recovered. That's the only thing that gives me hope.

Just curious and NOT to diminish your post withdrawl symptoms, but do you think they are largely anxiety fueled?

I do believe in not-so-long a time, you will indeed recover just fine

Also look into all natural therapies. CBD oil or dried flowers helps me alot ( I also take klonopin for many, many years) plan is to be off that by 2020.