Why ENTs Won't Help You — Lawsuits

[Greg Sacramento]

Most ENTs would not help you if after reviewing your medical history they see that you had medical assistance such as medication use for another medical problem or had a prior dental procedure. ENTs will cover for all other medical personnel and other doctors. They don't want to be involved in medical malpractice lawsuits against other doctors.

Besides ENTs appointment are often insurance referrals from other doctors. If an ENT was involved in a malpractice suit, they would lose practicing rights with hospitals and would be black listed from other doctors.

If an ENT worked for a ENT clinic, they would be fired if they told a patient that their tinnitus was caused from other treatment or an environment cause such as your place of employment. All doctors protect other doctors and the AMA as well.

ENT students and all other medical students are told this in medical school. This is why general practice medical students only view a 30 minute film on tinnitus. ENT training is 2% per tinnitus.

Many times if no other medical procedures were involved, ENTs still won't help you, such as getting noise induced tinnitus and hyperacusis from private or public sources. These are known as environmental factors and this include all environmental sources. They include clubs, concerts, police sirens, fire trucks, hospital fire alarms and just about any noise about 85 dB.

Most times, environmental government sound safety laws are not followed or in-forced.

So ENTs are not going to risk their careers for you by getting involved in a lawsuit against the system. Besides they would be spending all their days in court. Drug companies list all the side effects for any prescription as now required by the FDA in literature given to you with your prescription, but they still get sued. The difference is that drug companies have deep pockets.

 

[brownbear]

Are you talking about the US? This sounds very depressing. I have no experiences like this in the UK whatsoever.

 

[Rasmus]

i Dont think its like that in my country :/

 

[light rain]

An ent CANT often really determined if prior medical treatment caused T. Especially since he only has your word you are experiencing it and to what degree. ALL doctors are hesitant to say another doctor was wrong UNLESS they also examined you at the time. Happens in psychiatry quite a lot too. A doctor nay add another label on rather than say prior Dr was wrong simply because they didn't do or see that exam. They tend to focus on the here and now.

Also I think people greatly overestimate the ability to sue for malpractice in the US. Lots of "reforms" have made it extremely difficult for many patients and cases can drag on for years.

So I actually think it is the ins companies or hospitals they fear more than other doctors.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Yes, For the most part, Europe has better medical care. For example, some of the best rated hospitals in California have ER waiting times of 6 to 12 hours. I know this because I was on a Board for a large hospital chain, but it wasn't the Board of Directors. It was a partner Board. I was dismissed from that Board that had meetings every few months. I had wanted changes for the betterment of patient and environment care.

ENT offices are mostly chain clinics for profit. Many ENTs work out of several locations. Take a look at ENT doctor patient ratings in California on the net. A visit besides hearing tests are usually just a few minutes.

Malpractice is never recorded in the USA on public sites as the AMA protects that. Insurance companies are always ready to settle. Hospitals themselves will cover doctors mistakes. If a nurse reports anything, they will be fired at a time later for something else.

 

[light rain]

Hospitals themselves will cover doctors mistakes. If a nurse reports anything, they will be fired at a time later for something else.

My mom worked in Admin for a large hospital group. There are tons of things people don't know -,like how much the big hospitals affect reporting by the local media even and their PR Dept's. Big hospitals are big money and they are really calling a lot of the shots despite their non profit images. And medical personell know not to rock the boat. They also often demand loyalty in referrals - so it takes a very confident well established Dr to buck that. Once they are respected then they have power with the hospitals. And drs fight all the time by the way. Just not in public.

 

[Tinker Bell]

Could you share your source for the statistic that ENT training for tinnitus is two percent? I have seen several ENTs at hospitals affiliated with medical schools. Twice a medical student was even along with the doctor, and both times the students were very eager to discuss possible causes and seemed fairly knowledgeable.

However, overall in my own experience I have found audiologists to be the most knowledgeable regarding tinnitus coping strategies. At the teaching hospitals, the audiologists and their students that I have seen have been amazing. Lots of information and compassion.

Maybe the industry is changing for the better?

Edited to add: The ENTs I saw at teaching hospitals only handled ear concerns. They only see patients with hearing changes, do ear surgeries, cochlear implants, etc. They're not doing sinus surgeries or fixing broken noses. They were very specialized and I think that probably makes a big difference in their level of knowledge.

 

[ryant]

ENT's aren't able to help you with your tinnitus because there are zero effective medical treatments for tinnitus. It has nothing to do with lawsuits. There just aren't any effective medical treatments. There are some medications that can help to decrease the severity of tinnitus, but any positive effect a medication has on tinnitus is a side effect of the medication, not the medication actually treating the tinnitus. And the effects are always temporary, and there are side effects with most these meds: benzo's, anti-anxiety meds, etc. Many of these meds are habit forming, or addictive, so doctors are very hesitant to start you on these medications. If there was an effective treatment available the ENT would prescribe it. Like the person above mentioned, your best bet is to see an audiologist.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I just checked the course study of several medical schools for otolaryngology. Students take 25 credit courses. Many courses deal with the ear and diseases. It often quoted - In study they are taught active disease, if conditions exist without disease then they move on to a management model. However there are many disease tests such as neck nerve testing that many ENTs never perform, or refer to other specialists. This is the way that it is in California. A hearing test and a quick look into your ear.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@ryant About lawsuits: If your dentist hit a nerve in your mouth and you told your ENT that I had tinnitus right after that, do you think that your ENT will tell you that your dentist messed up! Doctors stick together.

 

[Tinker Bell]

@ryant About lawsuits: If your dentist hit a nerve in your mouth and you told your ENT that I had tinnitus right after that, do you think that your ENT will tell you that your dentist messed up! Doctors stick together.

I guess it depends on your doctor. It's anecdotal of course, but doctors have told me, family members and friends when another doctor has made a mistake. One mistake could have resulted in a lawsuit, and the doctor fully agreed that the other surgeon was at fault. They did not pursue a lawsuit because lawsuits are incredibly long, expensive and stressful processes, whether you're suing a doctor or your neighbor.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

this is bullshit.

ENTs won't help you BECAUSE THEY CAN'T.

What do you expect them to do? What's the treatment being refused?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

This is one story of many on this site. An ENT who took the time to review this person's medical history maybe could have helped him. See post #29 on this link.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/has-anyone-been-cured-ever.4297/

Maybe ENTs do take the time to review one's medical and dental history, but not in Northern California. I've been to many and none has asked about anything dental. One problem is that they all have waiting rooms filled with patients waiting to be seen.

 

[maltese]

This is one story of many on this site. An ENT who took the time to review this person's medical history maybe could have helped him. See post #29 on this link.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/has-anyone-been-cured-ever.4297/

Maybe ENTs do take the time to review one's medical and dental history, but not in Northern California. I've been to many and none has asked about anything dental. One problem is that they all have waiting rooms filled with patients waiting to be seen.

You mean this post?

Not sure why it started. Dental work, bad health or Tramadol that I was given for a kidney stone. It was extremely loud, just in my left ear. After 2 1/2 years it is all gone. I may hear a slight buzz in both ears when I am in complete silence, but I have to really try to hear it, but I had that before.
2 years ago I had all my dental work replace by a biological dentist. 9 silver fillings, one newer one that was very large (on the left side), and one metal crown replaced with all non metal. It did take almost a year before it started to subside and now it is all gone.


Where would ENT be helpful?

They just can't help you. It has nothing to do with lawsuits.

Run a bunch of tests? What is the benefit? They also can actively harm you... You're probably better off being left alone.

 

[light rain]

Maybe ENTs do take the time to review one's medical and dental history, but not in Northern California. I've been to many and none has asked about anything dental. One problem is that they all have waiting rooms filled with patients waiting to be seen.

Part of the problem has been a lack of wholistic (incorrect spelling intended) medicine. It is starting very slowly to improve but there have been territories that medical groups are not willing to give up - like medical/dental/mental health. Neuropsychiatry for instance is a blend of both professions as it has become very apparent that neuro issues can cause psychiatric issues and many psychiatric issues have a neuro basis. Up until recently separate insurances were needed for both. And Dentists are notorious for wanting a separate insurance and territory. So I think that makes it hard for other specialists since they don't really all seem to be on the same team.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

This is one story of many on this site. An ENT who took the time to review this person's medical history maybe could have helped him. See post #29 on this link.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/has-anyone-been-cured-ever.4297/

Maybe ENTs do take the time to review one's medical and dental history, but not in Northern California. I've been to many and none has asked about anything dental. One problem is that they all have waiting rooms filled with patients waiting to be seen.

ENTs are not dentists. They're not qualified to provide advice and shouldn't be. Every ENT I saw advised me that people usually visit a qualified neurologist as well as someone qualified in TMJ, however when it comes to noise events it's usually not fruitful.

The type of information you're looking for should come from a good internist, not an ENT. I similarly wouldn't go to an ENT for a colonoscopy.

As to doctors that overbook with long waiting room lines - I refuse to tolerate that. You can check that information online prior to booking an appt.

 

[light rain]

ENTs are not dentists. They're not qualified to provide advice and shouldn't be. Every ENT I saw advised me that people usually visit a qualified neurologist as well as someone qualified in TMJ, however when it comes to noise events it's usually not fruitful.

The type of information you're looking for should come from a good internist, not an ENT. I similarly wouldn't go to an ENT for a colonoscopy.

As to doctors that overbook with long waiting room lines - I refuse to tolerate that. You can check that information online prior to booking an appt.

Generally a 2 hour wait for a specialist is pretty typical across a variety of fields (neuro, ent, retinal). The retinal specialist office would be very up front about it - bring a book and a snack if needed.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Generally a 2 hour wait for a specialist is pretty typical across a variety of fields (neuro, ent, retinal). The retinal specialist office would be very up front about it - bring a book and a snack if needed.

it's not even remotely normal for a place to give you an appointment (think about what that word means) that you have to wait two hours for. It's not TSA.

it's very simple for them to say 3pm istead of 1pm if that's what they mean. they can't manage the google calendars app you trust them with your HEALTH?

the only place its acceptable is a pediatrician's office or an emergency room.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

To support my thesis above to a response, I looked at several university medical school sites per ENT training for tinnitus. I can't remember which schools, but it said that they are trained to look at your neck. They are also advised to ask about all medical history and conditions such as whiplash, concussions, back jury and use of medication for other medical problems. They were also advised to ask about dental treatment and to look into your mouth. Grinding of teeth is something that they were told to address. To ask if you been to a dentist. They should also take the time to review the questionnaire that you fill out in detail.

Most on this board are smart enough to realize what could have caused their tinnitus and what specialists they need to go to. Many other people don't. Many who visit ENT clinics in California can't read or write. I not sure what percentage of tinnitus can be cured when another medical problem is causing it.

This is from a CLINICS article: I posted the link before at least twice.
"Many professionals tell patients that there nothing to be done or that you have to live with it." They go on to say not always so with somatic injury - somatic tinnitus.

Also how many ENTs tell patients with an onset of tinnitus to consider prednisone or HBOT treatment! Many here have said I was never told about that when I went to them just a few days after developing tinnitus.

 

[Alue]

What? My tinnitus was caused by a work accident and every ENT I have seen agreed with the cause. Now WC insurance absolutely will try to deny causation but that's what they do.

Don't get me started about workers compensation in the US, it's a very unfair system.

 

[light rain]

it's not even remotely normal for a place to give you an appointment (think about what that word means) that you have to wait two hours for. It's not TSA.

it's very simple for them to say 3pm istead of 1pm if that's what they mean. they can't manage the google calendars app you trust them with your HEALTH?

the only place its acceptable is a pediatrician's office or an emergency room.

Its nothing anyone is happy about but its what they often do. So you can have very capable doctors with a boatload of people in the waiting room. I have even madeappts (first slot) and you still have to get there first because other people have the same appt time.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

In the above post, several took my views about doctor lawsuits in the wrong way. With worker's compensation, as you know you need a statement from your doctors that you are not able to work. You will see a corporate assigned nurse and then an assigned doctor. Have your doctor give you a subscription for anxiety for noise trauma. Have your doctor put that in writing. No employer will let you work under medication used for a job related illness. If you file for SS disability do not file with the federal government. Apply thru the State that you live in. Have sometime test noise levels at your place of employment and use osha guidelines. Then wear noise blocking headphone whenever you leave your home. Hire a disability consultant to help you fill and file paperwork. The cost usually are about 200 dollars. Do not hire an attorney. Some attorney lose cases because they focus on the fact that their client just can't work. They should say my client wants to work, but has a handicap where he won't be able to communicate wearing headphones. Under federal law no aides related to an injury can be worn at work. That include back braces, slings for arm damage or neck braces.

 

[Alue]

In the above post, several took my views about doctor lawsuits in the wrong way. With worker's compensation, as you know you need a statement from your doctors that you are not able to work. You will see a corporate assigned nurse and then an assigned doctor. Have your doctor give you a subscription for anxiety for noise trauma. Have your doctor put that in writing. No employer will let you work under medication used for a job related illness. If you file for SS disability do not file with the federal government. Apply thru the State that you live in. Have sometime test noise levels at your place of employment and use osha guidelines.

Again, what!?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

What questions do you have. Deaf people are allowed to work under the federal disability act. People in wheel chairs are protected depending on their employment duties. The disability act also protects those with tinnitus where sound levels are unreasonable.

 

[Alue]

What questions do you have. Deaf people are allowed to work under the federal disability act. People in wheel chairs are protected depending on their employment duties. The disability act also protects those with tinnitus where sound levels are unreasonable.

Can you point me to the specific guidelines protecting those with tinnitus?

Are you are lawyer? Because a lot of what you say contradicts lawyers that I have talked to about this very subject. In particular workers compensation.

 

[linearb]

Most ENTs would not help you if after reviewing your medical history they see that you had medical assistance such as medication use for another medical problem or had a prior dental procedure.

What is your basis for this rather dramatic claim? It directly contradicts direct personal experience I've had with multiple ENTs in multiple cities.

Besides ENTs appointment are often insurance referrals from other doctors. If an ENT was involved in a malpractice suit, they would lose practicing rights with hospitals and would be black listed from other doctors.

Again, why do you say this? Simply being a defendant in a malpractice lawsuit hardly blackballs doctors from all future work.

If an ENT worked for a ENT clinic, they would be fired if they told a patient that their tinnitus was caused from other treatment or an environment cause such as your place of employment.

What? What about all the people on here (including me) who have been told that their tinnitus might be a result of employment noise or prior medical treatment?

I think the US medical system has a lot of problems but I've mostly had fine personal experiences with it, especially in metropolitan areas. The friends I have in Canada and the UK have typically waited much longer than I have to see specialists -- I have seen ENTs and a number of other specialist doctors in <48hrs in many cases, and that does not include cases where I've gone outside of insurance networks to expedite things.

Again, what!?

Yeah, that part is just wrong, unless I misunderstand; people work while in medical treatment for (current or prior) job-related illnesses all the time. If I had a dime for every programmer I know who's had carpal tunnel surgery or takes painkillers for job related back problems, I'd probably have enough for a big mac.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I've work in the medical field for most of my life and have been professionally involved in all subject matters that I commented on. I stand by everything that I said, but most relates to one medical center.

If you work in a hospital as a caregiver, I wouldn't tell your boss that you just took a pain killer.

In a hospital you are not allowed to wear a back brace coming off of a disability for a ruptured disc.

For those with carpal tunnel such as those behind a keyword all day are visited by occupational management to access your problem.

Some ENTs just don't follow thru with everything that they were trained to do in medical school. We got many complaints (in fact the highest moon lighting complaints) were from patients where ENTs have treated patients. Many doctors in the hospital that I was associated couldn't even pass a written CPR exam. Of course they never studied new procedure and thought that it was the same old stuff.

In my medical center, doctors who lost a malpractice suit would lose operating rights within that hospital. This hospital where I had involvement caned three doctors for unethical activity.

It's not so much doctors who are blackballed, but nurses. Although some surgeons will not work again with a surgical doctor who committed a gross error. I have seen this three times at my medical center.

Hospitals fire drills are weekly somewhere in a hospital, patients and visitors are always opening fire alarm doors, even as they are posted in 6 languages that this is not an exit. Babies cry, patients scream. The loud speakers are loud because codes like code red are often called and repeated three times. Most employees (2) in all where given disability by the state of California for tinnitus. Both were victims of a loud fire alarm which was above OS. Hospital pay into the state disability system.

Certain medical employees are not allowed to wear noise blocking headphones such as surgical nurses.

State disability guidance policy and procedures are on the net. Many states have different variations.
There are reporting and accreditations for hospital and other medical faculties.

Federal agencies and hospital accreditors can appear at any time. Fireman are often inspecting on site.

And no, I'm not an attorney.

 

[PaulBe]

Again, why do you say this? Simply being a defendant in a malpractice lawsuit hardly blackballs doctors from all future work.

Our Consultant Intensivist once told me he had a couple of lawsuits running against him on any given day. He said this was normal for his field. He said most suits were really about people not getting the outcomes they wanted (for when survival is not enough) and they never progressed far.

 

[PaulBe]

Many doctors in the hospital that I was associated couldn't even pass a written CPR exam. Of course they never studied new procedure and thought that it was the same old stuff.

Yep.

patients and visitors are always opening fire alarm doors, even as they are posted in 6 languages that this is not an exit. Babies cry, patients scream. The loud speakers are loud because codes like code red are often called and repeated three times.

and yep.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

In a last attempt I don't believe in lawsuits or malpractice within the area of ophthalmology that relates to the ear. Maybe if a surgeon cut your wrong leg off or cutting into the wrong organ, then that would be an issue and other doctors and hospitals would not take a liking to that. In situations like this, I have seen many times from prior employment that doctors will cover for other doctors. Hospitals and doctors have buried many of their mistakes and there lots about this on the internet, including the use of wrong pharmacy medications. Infection are also very common within hospitals and are caused by many reasons. 60 minutes and other high profile media had segments on this. Just to mention my program to have in- depth infection control awareness was finally approved by senior infection control management. Nothing in this first paragraph can be argued so let move on.

I saw an ENT last week and I was told without any major testing that my ears were fine. I decided to have a private 3d CT scan that I recently mentioned here as a benefit three different times. The 3D CT showed problems in my neck. ENT's are trained in medical school to check your neck with somatic tinnitus. The ENT never touched my neck. I had my neck adjusted last night. The radiologist called tonight saying that my tympanic cavity is touching my stapes in my ear. According to him and other associate radiologists that is a problem which very well could be causing my somatic tinnitus to at lease be worse. I will be able to view all the images on Monday with this private 3D team that has no connection to practicing doctors or hospitals. Their clients are all private citizens.

I will make no conclusion, because I consider all who have posted on this thread who agreed with me or not friends.

To add: I asked a question in another thread tonight if anyone knows why my T moves from a recent 0 to a ten and then back down to a 2 or 3. The radiologists said with consultation given to me a hour later that it's related to my tympanic cavity placing pressure on my staples or the other way around.