Whether the CBT providers are aware of this being a "last ditch effort" type of treatment is kind of irrelevant here.
What is relevant, is the created perception, that CBT is a sufficient treatment for tinnitus.
Okay. I disagree that this perception is common, among CBT providers I have worked with, and certainly not among tinnitus patients. This is where we're arguing anecdotes, though: I have had five out of six positive experiences; surely other people have had five out of six negative experiences and would see this different.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it is indeed the squeeky wheel principle, that very much applies here.
The most established, vocal and/or influencial get the most money.
Again, this is how the real world works, so there is no conspiracy here.
The paranoia is well placed.
Granted. I know a lot about how research funding works, for personal and professional reasons. So, again, I'm asking for some hard concrete data showing that "CBT research" is offsetting any significant spending on: tinnitus research, chronic pain, etc. Every CBT/tinnitus study combined probably cost less than the (failed) Autifony drug research.
We need the people whom hold any influence (as far as the public opinion is concerned), to clearly communicate, that these types of treatments are indeed meant as the last ditch effort only.
And that is my problem in a nutshell.
I don't disagree with any of that, nor do I give money to (or pay much attention to) the BTA / ATA / etc. I pay attention to research scientists, whitepapers, and patient reports.
I don't think this thread was intended to be an endorsement of the ATA or any other specific organization? Ed started asking about an
idea and this has devolved into a discussion of specific organizations and providers. I believe that is telling. None of the organizations or providers being criticized are people I have much knowledge of, but I will continue to defend some of these ideas themselves ad nauseum.
In response to anger. I think in some cases it is warranted. As I mentioned on several occasions one can throw a lot of money and get nothing or perhaps suffer worse in the end
To me the question of whether anger is warranted, is less interesting than if that anger is useful. I have certainly spent money on snake oil and been angry about it, but if I don't have agency to effect change there, then I try to let it go. On the other hand, if you get maligned by a specific provider in a way that's actionable, and anger is the thing which spurs you forward to a resolution, then that's useful.
In this way, anxiety and anger are very similar to me: powerful, unpleasant emotions which
can lead to useful behavioral change if you let/force them to, but lead to greater unhappiness and cyclical thinking if we're angry/anxious about stuff we can't control, and should just let go.
Lane said:
I'm constantly amazed by some of the posts on this forum that are so consistantly angry, and I wonder how those posters don't seem to understand that anger will almost assuredly affect tinnitus volume and/or intensity to some degree (sometimes a lot!).
If you look at my own very early posts on here, I think I was a meaner SOB than I am now, and I'm still pretty thorny.
I think some people are lucky enough to have experiences which give them some insight into how predicated consciousness and state of mind is on various feedback loops, and then some subset of those people have a lightbulb moment where they understand that they have
some degree of agency over things which had always seemed to be uncontrollable. I guess I'd count myself in that group -- but would say that mostly, I am still lead around like a monkey on a string by the unconscious mind.
People who do not have such experiences or never look at things on this level, are inherently
just being yanked around like a monkey on a string.
You would think that after making a statement like that, "woah, that guy surely NEVER gives into anger!", but I assure you that I said "fucker, fucker, stupid POS" in front of my small child today when the latches on my car got iced shut. There is a quote from
Living Yogacara which, paraphrased, is something like "even the most enlightened person can quickly be reduced to an animalistic state in a single moment, if they give in to thinking of avarice or anger".
@JohnAdams I am sorry but that post just doesn't add up to me, you are making a case for "CBT" as an "Establishment" in the same way that "Big Pharma" or "Big Tobacco" is. To me that's a paranoid and unrealistic idea, so, we're just not seeing these things in the same way at all, and we're not going to.
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