10% of Women Who Suffer Constant Ringing in Their Ears Attempt Suicide, Study Suggests

[Autumnly]

Let me know if there are other things I can clarify, happy to help.

• The number of suicide attempts was higher among participants with any tinnitus (multivariate OR, 1.15; 95% CI, 1.03-1.28) and among those with severe tinnitus (OR, 1.32; 95% CI, 1.04-1.66) (Table 2). This association was not observed for those with a formal diagnosis of tinnitus (OR, 0.92; 95% CI, 0.67-1.26).

What does "formal diagnosis" mean? Because a German ENT network is using this study to promote a German CBT app for tinnitus by saying that only people with untreated tinnitus had an increased risk for suicide attempts.

Also, really sorry to hear that the journalist did such a poor job! I saw you explaining this on Twitter as well. Thank you for coming to Tinnitus Talk and for taking time out of your day to clarify things and answer questions!

(A bit off-topic: They only have a small account on Twitter and their outreach probably isn't significant but I need better scientific evidence to show that we, in fact, need medical treatments. And right now it seems like it's 1:0 for them.)

 

[annV]

What does "formal diagnosis" mean?

It probably means a doctor has entered an ICD-10 code of H93.13 into your patient record which means tinnitus.

@CederrothCr am I correct?

 

[emmalee]

Because men are evil now and don't deserve sympathy. Especially white, heterosexual, cis gender, middle class, tax paying, two armed, horn honking, hair combed men.

I've arranged for you to be reincarnated as a black woman with one arm. You can report back as to whether you find the world treats you better.

@Agrajag364, thank-you.

 

[JohnAdams]

Did you know that 100% of people that commit suicide die?

 

[Tanni]

I've arranged for you to be reincarnated as a black woman with one arm. You can report back as to whether you find the world treats you better.

I do think the issue of male suicide is not discussed enough.

Sorry the Daily Mail misquoted you-it is notoriously the worst paper for accuracy in health coverage, though it's very powerful and well read and takes a great interest in publishing health articles. I had some indirect dealings with them on another health issue and they kept printing this same incorrect fact even after it was corrected to them. Yours is a good study overall. I do think sometimes the media, or even future research publications that cite such articles as yours, don't acknowledge uncertainties.

How do I agree with this post 100 more times?

 

[Starthrower]

Hello all, I'm Christopher, the corresponding author of the scientific publication. There are many questions raised that I am happy to discuss here.

Thank you for offering to discuss this on Tinnitus Talk.

"Cederroth added that he isn't aware of any completed suicides related to tinnitus." which is obviously not true...

I decided to avoid phone calls and instead sent a text which included that there were no studies showing an increased risk for completed suicide.

Let me know if there are other things I can clarify, happy to help.

@CederrothCr are you personally aware of any number of suicides related to the tinnitus distress?

I am personally aware of three cases. Two of which were friends in counseling with me. Both were men. One was taken to the brink of homeless because he lost everything financially. He was poor. He was very intelligent and compassionate. The other was a very wealthy business man with a wife and two small kids. He lost nothing financially. He lost the ability to think and was taken down because of tinnitus.

The other was a policeman. I did not know personally. But, I contacted the publisher of his death by shotgun behind his shed and put him in contact with a tinnitus expert who was a part of a follow-up article.

In each case tinnitus was given little attention. The reasons were always because of depression or mental instability.

The statistic are there. But, few or if any state tinnitus as a cause. If it is written the claims are always to destroy any aspect of tinnitus as a cause for various reasons.

Nonetheless, I was happy our work was published because there is little knowledge on this. As you all saw in the thread, there are big differences between suicidal ideation, suicidal attempts, and completed suicide.

I am glad this was published also.

What do you think will go through a person's mind who just got tinnitus and who comes here for some support and they read such a post that 10% of women with tinnitus attempt suicide. Wouldn't their suicidal thoughts be aggravated?

I'm obviously not going into the gender issues here, I think they are secondary.

Just my two pennies worth.

@Clint Azzopardi I understand your point. There is such a fine line dealing with this subject and I have yet to find a way to discuss it honestly and openly without worrying about the fear factor for newer members.

 

[Frédéric]

Tinnitus and suicide: An unresolved relation

 

[Candy]

Another unhelpful article.

 

[Ken219]

@Frédéric Never thought I'd say this but I think you are sadistic.

 

[Autumnly]

@Frédéric Never thought I'd say this but I think you are sadistic.

Why?

 

[Frédéric]

@Ken219: sorry, there must be a mistake. I do not intend to be sadistic at all. I scan the internet daily to collect all scientific articles about tinnitus. I just relay them without self-censorship to inform all members of this forum.

 

[Luman]

• From the Daily Mail article:
  • About 15% of Americans - more than 50 million people - experience some form of tinnitus and two million have severe cases
  • Of the nearly 900 women in the study who had severe tinnitus, about 10% reported that they attempted to commit suicide
  • Getting diagnosed and treated could decrease suicide risk, researchers say

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How many women are at risk for suicide in America, due to tinnitus? Is there any data regarding male vs. female tinnitus rates, and severity differences if any?

From the ATA website:

Males get tinnitus more often than females
This disparity may be attributable to males being more represented in the workforce, particularly in loud professions such as manufacturing, construction, and military service. Men are also more likely to participate in high hearing-risk behavior, such as hunting and motorsports.

 

[Dana]

I was in that 10%.

 

[Ken219]

@Ken219: sorry, there must be a mistake. I do not intend to be sadistic at all. I scan the internet daily to collect all scientific articles about tinnitus. I just relay them without self-censorship to inform all members of this forum.

I suggest using a filter. Report on scientific articles that gives hope!

 

[Autumnly]

I suggest using a filter. Report on scientific articles that gives hope!

Personally, I think articles and studies showing the severe side of tinnitus are needed to show how much of an impact tinnitus can have on someone and that there's a dire need for medical treatments.

 

[Candy]

Not helpful on a forum.

Ask yourself - is this accurate? Is this helpful to someone who's struggling?
If the answer to either one is a "no" then no need to post.

Has its place in awareness raising but no place on the forum. I'd be interested to see all of you post this on your social media, because that would be more useful.

 

[Markku]

but no place on the forum

I have to very kindly disagree. Suicide statistics, studies about suicidal ideation, etc, are part of the tinnitus spectrum and shouldn't be hidden away.

Tinnitus Talk is also about more than just support; we raise awareness of the condition, collaborate with researchers, raise funding for research (Daniel Ballinger Fund, for example).

 

[Frédéric]

Maybe we can speak about this article itself and share our opinions. Mine is:

I would not say that this article is completely unhelpful, it is a systematic review from the keywords "tinnitus" and "suicide". It has the merit of existing, just to take stock of this correlation, and to maintain awareness on our disease that remains a real torture in everyday life.

Do you think this subject of suicide should remain taboo?

Then what do you think about the interview with Gaby Olthuis's mom?

 

[Ken219]

Tinnitus Talk is also about more than just support; we raise awareness

So if I went to an ENT that I felt was incompetent I should inform the 'Tinnitus Talk' community?

There should be a category of bad doctors? Only an opinion:
Mark Shikowitz

 

[Autumnly]

Ask yourself - is this accurate? Is this helpful to someone who's struggling?
If the answer to either one is a "no" then no need to post.

Has its place in awareness raising but no place on the forum. I'd be interested to see all of you post this on your social media, because that would be more useful.

I think it's helpful, so it's not a clear "no" for me. Obviously it's a difficult topic as it could especially affect people new to tinnitus but I don't think that hiding the severe side will help either.

 

[Frédéric]

@Ken219 : It is already the case, many members reported their own (bad) experience on this forum (in the "support" or "introduce yourself" sections) with their ENT or Audiologist (some of them gave her/his name).

 

[Bill Bauer]

Ask yourself - is this accurate? Is this helpful to someone who's struggling?

It is accurate.

If the forum would contain links to only the "feel-good" material, then the forum would be biased, and hence useless.

If you want "feel-good" fake material, I can send messages to you every day stating that you will be ok and that your tinnitus will be gone soon (no matter what your symptoms are or what I actually think). If that wouldn't be helpful then the self-censorship that you had suggested would also not work well.

 

[Ken219]

If you want "feel-good" fake material, I can send messages to you every day stating that you will be ok and that your tinnitus will be gone soon

Would you do that for me? I could use some good words. I'll be checking my conversation! Bill you are the best!

 

[Samir]

I was just reminded of a tinnitus research study cutely abbreviated as STOP (Swedish Tinnitus Outreach Project). I was part of this study actually. I did the questionnaire but they never called me in to do any of the tests people are talking about. But now that I visited the website after 2 years, I found this...

https://stop.ki.se/2019/05/25/1106/

Published in JAMA Otolaryngol Head Neck Surgery:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaotolaryngology/fullarticle/2732497

A research paper on suicide "attempts" in relation to tinnitus... with a sex twist!

Severe tinnitus has been shown to be strongly associated with depression and anxiety, and the only established approach to treat tinnitus is cognitive behavioral therapy. Our research group recently reported that the tinnitus-associated mental health burden is greater in women than in men, likely due to higher levels of anxiety and stress. Most of the evidence on the association of tinnitus with suicide came from case series studies, until a recent cross-sectional study reported that an increased risk of suicide attempts was associated with severe tinnitus. In the present study, we assessed whether this association would differ between men and women using data from a large population-based study, the Stockholm Public Health Cohort (SPHC).

Hello Sweden! Why does everything have to be about the sexes in Sweden? You wouldn't believe it! There is not a single public debate in this country that is not viewed through the lens of gender equality (or rather "inequality").

So this is where the research money is spent? On sex studies! Where else but in Sweden!? I can't say I'm surprised by this.

"In the present study, we assessed whether this association would differ between men and women using data from a large population-based study, the Stockholm Public Health Cohort (SPHC)."

Should I feel lucky that I'm a guy? "Stockholm Public Health Cohort" Some big words there! And there is always a cute little abbreviation or acronym. Just because you have access to a large (public) data set doesn't mean you actually understand something at a low level. Anyone can punch in a few numbers and keywords in a computer. (Just ask Google! They know. They might even show you how it's done.) Understanding what the data means and discerning the truth without letting your personal or political views cloud your judgement... see that's the hard part.

I find this embarrassing. This is just toying with data.

Tinnitus or no tinnitus, regardless! Have a good hard look at the world population and you will find that the majority of suicides are committed by men! The ratio between men and women is 1.8 to 1.0 according to Wikipedia, based on WHO data from 2008. The rate of women who commit suicide are only now starting to catch up... gee, I wonder why though...

Here is a recent BBC article on the topic.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190313-why-more-men-kill-themselves-than-women

In the UK, the male suicide rate is its lowest since 1981 – 15.5 deaths per 100,000. But suicide is still the single biggest killer of men under the age of 45. And a marked gender split remains. For UK women, the rate is a third of men's: 4.9 suicides per 100,000.

Here is some statistics from the Public Health Agency of Sweden.
https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/suicidprevention/statistik-om-suicid/

In 2018 alone, 1268 people committed suicide in Sweden, out of which 886 were men and 382 were women.

I don't like discussing suicide any more than any of you do, but if these guys are serious about helping highlight the problem of suicide within the tinnitus community, they should at least do their job and properly and investigate the suicides committed, not "attempted".

 

[Chriscom]

I was just reminded of a tinnitus research study cutely abbreviated as STOP (Swedish Tinnitus Outreach Project). I was part of this study actually. I did the questionnaire but they never called me in to do any of the tests people are talking about. But now that I visited the website after 2 years, I found this...

https://stop.ki.se/2019/05/25/1106/

Published in JAMA Otolaryngol Head Neck Surgery:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaotolaryngology/fullarticle/2732497

A research paper on suicide "attempts" in relation to tinnitus... with a sex twist!




Hello Sweden! Why does everything have to be about the sexes in Sweden? You wouldn't believe it! There is not a single public debate in this country that is not viewed through the lens of gender equality (or rather "inequality").

So this is where the research money is spent? On sex studies! Where else but in Sweden!? I can't say I'm surprised by this.

"In the present study, we assessed whether this association would differ between men and women using data from a large population-based study, the Stockholm Public Health Cohort (SPHC)."

Should I feel lucky that I'm a guy? "Stockholm Public Health Cohort" Some big words there! And there is always a cute little abbreviation or acronym. Just because you have access to a large (public) data set doesn't mean you actually understand something at a low level. Anyone can punch in a few numbers and keywords in a computer. (Just ask Google! They know. They might even show you how it's done.) Understanding what the data means and discerning the truth without letting your personal or political views cloud your judgement... see that's the hard part.

I find this embarrassing. This is just toying with data.

Tinnitus or no tinnitus, regardless! Have a good hard look at the world population and you will find that the majority of suicides are committed by men! The ratio between men and women is 1.8 to 1.0 according to Wikipedia, based on WHO data from 2008. The rate of women who commit suicide are only now starting to catch up... gee, I wonder why though...

Here is a recent BBC article on the topic.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190313-why-more-men-kill-themselves-than-women



Here is some statistics from the Public Health Agency of Sweden.
https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/suicidprevention/statistik-om-suicid/

In 2018 alone, 1268 people committed suicide in Sweden, out of which 886 were men and 382 were women.

I don't like discussing suicide any more than any of you do, but if these guys are serious about helping highlight the problem of suicide within the tinnitus community, they should at least do their job and properly and investigate the suicides committed, not "attempted".

I haven't looked closely at stats like these for years, but as I recall it's long been true that men as group "successfully" commit suicide at higher rates than women, while women attempt suicide more frequently. And yes women have been closing the gap in completed suicides at least in Western countries.

Personally I see no problem with investigating sex-based differences in all kinds of health issues since it can help target treatment and interventions--because there are such differences. But I'm not familiar with that study and am very happy to say I won't be. Peace to all, the goal is to have treatment and cures for all.

 

[Samir]

I haven't looked closely at stats like these for years, but as I recall it's long been true that men as group "successfully" commit suicide at higher rates than women, while women attempt suicide more frequently. And yes women have been closing the gap in completed suicides at least in Western countries.

Let's not forget that men often take more risks in life, they are opportunists, they take on tasks they cannot handle which leads to stress, which leads to mental illness and so on. It's not all that great to be a man! What I'm trying to say here is that if women want to more equal to men then they will have to start carrying the load as well. Yes, that means taking responsibility, being more opportunistic, reckless even, and stressed out.

Personally I see no problem with investigating sex-based differences in all kinds of health issues since it can help target treatment and interventions--because there are such differences.

There are differences between men and women, and likewise there are differences within each group. In terms of medicine, personalized medicine is the way to go. Where each patient gets a customized treatment, individually tuned to their own biology.

I didn't mean this to turn into a gender discussion. But that's how this paper is presented, so I guess it's unavoidable. Let it be noted that I am for equality of opportunity for men and women. But I am not for equality of outcome, just for the sake of being equal. Sweden is a perfect example of equality of outcome, where girls are now being taught to play with cars and other boy toys, in hopes that the outcome of this will be that they become an electrical engineer one day. Boys on the other hand are taught to play with dolls, in hopes that the outcome will be a boy with a more sensitive side, who may one day become a nurse. You can't force someone to be something they are not, and expect them to enjoy it too.

Peace to all, the goal is to have treatment and cures for all.

I want that too! That's why I think we need to stop with these shallow studies and start doing some real science.

 

[AfroSnowman]

I don't want to hunt through this thread for an answer. Can anyone tell me if they have a number for men?

 

[Autumnly]

I don't want to hunt through this thread for an answer. Can anyone tell me if they have a number for men?

Yes, the study looked at men and women, the title of the article just doesn't make that clear.

Sex-Specific Association of Tinnitus With Suicide Attempts

 

[Autumnly]

Sex Differences in the Response to Different Tinnitus Treatment

Introduction: Tinnitus is a complex symptom requiring a thorough multidisciplinary assessment to construct an individual's tinnitus profile. The Antwerp University Hospital hosts a tertiary tinnitus clinic providing intensive, multidisciplinary tinnitus care in the form of combinational psychological treatment with either Tinnitus Retraining Therapy (TRT)/Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) or TRT/eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy (EMDR), high-definition transcranial direct current stimulation (HD-tDCS), and physical therapy treatment (in cases of somatic influence of the neck or the temporomandibular area). Several factors may contribute to therapy effect of which the role of gender has recently gained more interest. As such, the current manuscript explores gender differences in the outcome of different tinnitus treatments.

Methods: Data on treatment outcome of four distinct tinnitus treatments (1. HD-tDCS; 2. orofacial physical therapy; 3. combination TRT + CBT; and 4. combination TRT + EMDR) were pooled and compared. Treatment outcome was assessed via the Tinnitus Functional Index (TFI). Participants completed the TFI at baseline, immediately after treatment and after 9 weeks (±3 weeks) follow-up. To explore the effect of gender on different treatment outcomes, a linear mixed model was designed including Time point, Gender, and Therapy Group as fixed factors as well as all interactions between these factors.

Results: TFI scores improved significantly over time regardless of therapy group (p < 0.0001). A mean TFI decrease of at least 13 points was obtained by all participants except by those in the HD-tDCS. Significant interactions between Gender and Time point were identified in all groups except for the TRT +EMDR group. Female subjects improved more extensively than males in the HD-tDCS (p = 0.0009) and orofacial therapy group (p = 0.0299). Contrarily, in the TRT +CBT group, male participants showed a significant improvement whereas the mean TFI scores of female subjects remained on baseline levels (p = 0.0138).

Conclusion: Our data suggest that male and female tinnitus patients seem to react differently to different therapy options. We strongly encourage further prospective studies to discern the relevance of gender in therapy outcome.

 

[Frédéric]

I quickly read this article: I did not see anywhere the cause of tinnitus. It is a pity.