MemberBut the violent rioting and looting seem to be justified by Hollywood celebrities though. I didn't see one hHllywood celebrity condemn it. They always used BLM as an excuse for the rioting and looting.
2020 US Presidential Election
- Thread starter Born To Slay
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In this case, I don't really need to. I've seen this stuff all over social media and it's being debunked as fast as the fact checkers can move. Plus, the FBI is identifying these people and we already know some of their identities as real conservative activists.
A lot of buses arrived with BLM/Antifa protestors on the 6th. There are witnesses who saw Antifa there. I posted a video earlier, but there are also others online.
NOT MAKING HEADLINES: Utah Activist John Sullivan Organized Antifa Protest Near US Capitol Before It Was Stormed — Tweeted About BLM Buses in DC on the 6th
Politifact already fact checked this:
Says left-wing activist John Sullivan "incited (the) insurgence of (the) US Capitol."
I don't believe Sullivan's statements that he was alone (all alone among scary white "racist" perhaps armed guys?). Why did he tweet about BLM buses then? Good cover to say he went there to record everything. He also denied any affiliation with antifa, which is obviously a lie based on the article I posted (and one earlier).
The only thing he did was record stuff though, Politifact verified this.
Now just to be clear, should he still be arrested and charged? Absolutely. But this isn't evidence of some mass conspiracy.
VOX leader is a former PP politician based in the Basque Country. So he tries to use that politically, saying everything should be centralised, and power should be taken away from the regions, arguing that the regions are wasting our money, which I would say is true.
However, when one looks at what VOX leaders (people ruling the party in the several regions and also in Madrid) have been doing with their private businesses and the dealings they have had on the side, it is hard to trust them:
- They have been accused of fraud and tax evasion, as they were bending laws and regulations regarding taxation, real estate, zoning policies, etc, so in this sense their policies could do more harm than good.
- On top of that they are very radical people, some of which have had bruises with the law even for domestic violence.
Anyway, to rule Spain the central government has traditionally needed the regions and, ironically, the parties that promote independence, and this is impossible to reconcile with VOX agenda, so it will be harder for them to get the majority needed to form a stable government.
During the pandemic the PSOE government has been focused on preserving employment. It is a bold stance, and very expensive to finance this, and I am not sure what the result is going to be, but it at least seems fair, to use public money not only to bail out banks, but to make sure normal people and families can get by in tough times.
I think PP lost the general election because they were too mean. They did not distribute the wealth that was created when the economy rebounded after 2014. Wages were frozen for years and years. Taxes had been raised before and were not lowered. And there was a promise of changing all that in the future... in a future that never arrived. So big companies were rolling on money for like 5 very good years, tourism breaking all records, and most people would be working a lot more and being paid the same, with zero pay increases.
This, together with many corrupt PP politicians who were convicted, triggered a no confidence vote, the first one that has been successful in the history of Spain. It was just too much having a corrupt government lecturing people on morals and economics, and at the same time issuing more and more public debt, not addressing public deficit, keeping taxes high, keeping salaries frozen... the whole thing was unacceptable.
Anyway, in Spain the right parties would be considered like the "democrats" in the US, and the ruling party coalition (PSOE + Podemos) would be like communists... I don't really like any party here, I think they only look after themselves, they work only for their own party and do nothing for the country.
And I am not optimistic about what the future holds for Spain. The economy depends too much on tourism. Public debt is too high. Taxes are very high here too.
But I look at the US and I do not see how normal people can be happy with tech companies not paying their taxes, or with rampant inflation (house prices mainly) and the central banks (FED) denying there is any inflation whatsoever.
I don't know much about the Netherlands, but two friends of mine are living there and seem happy. I have also met Dutch people here in Spain and they certainly have a knack for business. Maybe the Netherlands has a friendlier atmosphere for entrepreneurs to thrive.
The problem with the left is they tend to want to explain away or minimize violence on the basis of victimhood. For instance, there are a lot on the left who put more energy into bashing Israel rather than denouncing suicide bombings. We have to "understand where they're coming from", they say. This really is a genuine issue with the left, who view right and wrong solely in terms of power differentials. To the left, all acts of lawbreaking on the part of weaker groups is merely a reaction to victimhood. The house that jack built of cause and effect always shifts back to some perceived abuse (concrete or more abstract, i.e. systemic racism). The right believes more in personal accountability which is something I think is hard to argue against. Of course, the right twist this as well, but both sides really need to listen to the other and see their own blind-spots.
Why is it a problem to say I condemn the actions but understand why they happened and we should do something to help the groups that felt so desperate they feel the need to do these things? I personally don't see the problem. The answer isn't more guns.
Your statement speaks so much truth. I feel like the conservatives on the right are willing to have an open discussion with liberals on the left but when conservatives try to speak up on something that liberals don't agree with such as the rioting and looting at BLM where conservatives were condemning the rioting and looting whereas liberals such as those Hollywood celebrities were justifying it due to BLM.
Both sides really need to listen to each other and not ignore what the other side said. By continuing to bash each other's viewpoints you will continue to have a divided America where 50% voted for Republicans and 50% voted for Democrats.
I do hope the unity that Joe Biden was calling for was true and not some made up bullshit.
- Aug 5, 2019
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I have very centrist viewpoints when it comes to police brutality. I do not agree with the full left position on this. It's a mixed bag for me. Sometimes I take the side of the cop, sometimes I take the side of the person who was shot. Sometimes the person shot was armed and was a violent criminal. Sometimes the person shot was armed, is not a violent criminal, but is paranoid over a belief that bad police shootings happens often when, statistically, they don't.
At the same rate, sometimes the person was armed, is not a violent criminal, but correctly believes that they should fear for their lives based on previous interactions with certain cops. It's tempting to watch these videos, see the person reaching for a weapon, and take the cop's side. However, they could have correctly been acting in fear and panic over a real threat. I disagree with the people that just take a side no matter what. It's always case by case.
Ultimately, I fully, 100% agree with the right to peacefully protest. I partially agree with the substance BLM is protesting. I disagree with excusing the violence -- although this is not done nearly as often as the right propaganda machines would make one believe.
But to me, the right is so bat shit nuts with conspiracies that I can't take them seriously. Also, I would be a lot more open to "the party of personal accountability" if they actually believed in it. Very clearly, they do not right now. And let's be real, even if a lot of Trump voters are not racists, many of the diehards are. Trump himself is a super bigot.
While the left may over hype how many people are racists, the right, sadly, is loaded with bigotry. Just look at the fact that Obama was treated as a terrorist, and the guy pushing the birther movement is so enticing that he created an unbreakable cult.
I do think race was a component to how easily Trump thugs stormed the Capitol Building. That event was planned for weeks. It's a horrible look to see a bunch of white people doing whatever they want during an important process, housing all of the country's most prominent leaders. It definitely appeared like too much of a benefit of the doubt was given. And without good reason, too. Right wing violence is quite common.
We've had enough of this impeachment nonsense. The government needs to focus on getting the vaccine in circulation, because COVID-19 is spreading right now. Trump is not gong to resign, there's only 11 days until Biden and that woman are sworn in, so Pelosi and Schumer can throw their hissy fit some other time.
The right wing only pretends to want an open dialogue. They're just as bad as the left. As proven in this election cycle. They riot like the left, defend or minimize their sides violence like the left (i.e. "we're not as bad as the left, so it doesn't or barely counts") and whine and bitch and moan at losing like the left. The left in 2016 really did throw a tantrum that was just incredibly pathetic but now in 2020/21, Republicans are throwing a tantrum just as big as the Democrats did, with conspiracy theories as stupid as Russiagate to boot. Like seriously, Trump's loss has shown the right wing is just as fragile and pathetic as the left wing.
It's true, Antifa is everywhere. Me and many others in this website are part of Antifa including the mods. Every single one of us went to the Capitol and stormed the building and not one was a Trump supporter because they're just incapable of violence.
Oh by the way those fact checkers and FBI investigations are all liars, as we control them because not one single person who stormed the Capitol was a Trump supporter as they're all peaceful. That incident of them attacking that black woman for no reason in LA? That was a hoax, Antifa set it up too and the LA police is controlled by Antifa as well. We are not only "super soldiers" as Fox News likes to call us, but we also have a super government where we had a gun pointed at every Republican politician to force them to condemn the violence.
We have used mind control on Joe Biden. He's actually a secret Marxist ready to turn you guys all homosexuals as you seem to fear about so much when you can't stop complaining about Hollywood showing them as humans part of normal life. He's going to force a vegan diet on you folks by taking away your burgers and steaks.
Wherever you go, we go. Whatever you eat, we eat. That dinner you guys had? We are eating that too. We can smell you a mile away.
On a serious note, when is there going to be a time where Antifa isn't part of your problems lol. After hundreds of Trump supporters started storming the Capitol, there must be at least 1 that isn't Antifa hahaha. These guys sound over the top powerful when they're just guys in black hoodies.
Oh by the way those fact checkers and FBI investigations are all liars, as we control them because not one single person who stormed the Capitol was a Trump supporter as they're all peaceful. That incident of them attacking that black woman for no reason in LA? That was a hoax, Antifa set it up too and the LA police is controlled by Antifa as well. We are not only "super soldiers" as Fox News likes to call us, but we also have a super government where we had a gun pointed at every Republican politician to force them to condemn the violence.
We have used mind control on Joe Biden. He's actually a secret Marxist ready to turn you guys all homosexuals as you seem to fear about so much when you can't stop complaining about Hollywood showing them as humans part of normal life. He's going to force a vegan diet on you folks by taking away your burgers and steaks.
Wherever you go, we go. Whatever you eat, we eat. That dinner you guys had? We are eating that too. We can smell you a mile away.
On a serious note, when is there going to be a time where Antifa isn't part of your problems lol. After hundreds of Trump supporters started storming the Capitol, there must be at least 1 that isn't Antifa hahaha. These guys sound over the top powerful when they're just guys in black hoodies.
I agree, seems to bounce from left and right vice versa non-stop. The only issue I have is why are some people still justifying the rioting and looting during BLM protests but had no problem with condemning the US Capitol attack.
I have a hypothetical question for you, if you were a small business owner and while closing up your shop and cleaning up you had people trying to loot and damage your store. By stealing and damaging the shop, the small business owner cannot recover the costs of stolen property and damage because they didn't have insurance and are forced to shut down the business permanently meaning they are unable to pay for their personal expenses as it was their only income and their livelihood.
What would you have done in this instance? Would you have continued to let them loot and damage property or would you have done something to stop this from happening?
- Aug 5, 2019
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I know you're being funny, but you are making a good point that I never really thought of. If the left really is so smart that they can under the radar in every single institution, while controlling everything, doesn't it follow that these geniuses should run the country?
If these guys were in charge instead of Trump, then maybe they would have been able to end world hunger. Not only that, but maybe they would won have all their trade wars unlike Loser Donald who lost with fucking Mexico nevermind China!
Yeah, that country he insulted and has on his list of "shit holes" (as he puts it oh-so bluntly), he fucking lost to that country despite the US having a lot more powerful economy than them. Now you know why his businesses went bankrupt. His main and only goal was reducing the trade deficit and he failed miserably. Oh did I forget? Mexico didn't pay for the wall either #TheArtOfTheLoser
Stable geniuses you mean?
The double standard between Trump and people like Colin Kaepernack.
The people that justified the violent rioting and looting, should they be banned from Twitter and other social media apps too?
- Aug 5, 2019
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Let me qualify this by saying that I fully condemn the violence and looting on the left. President Biden should continue to be firm about pushing against this.
But you seem to be attempting to draw a false equivalence. I feel bad for the business owner -- I really do. But with all due respect, some nut job stealing from them is not going to cause a civil war and it is not led by the President of the United States.
I'm not sure you grasp the political gravity of what happened. This isn't a both sides situation. The president riled these people up, said the election was stolen from them, told them to stand up and stand by. He told them to march over and stand their ground. Many of them broke right in, armed, in the fucking Capitol Building while in session. This event was so close to sparking a civil war.
Many on the right probably wonder why people on the left on here don't want to have long conversations about "both sides". It's because we feel like we are conceding too much ground. Tell me that Trump is bat shit nuts and is a brazen conspiracy theorist that is way too mentally ill to lead. Then maybe we can have a real discussion about this stuff.
It's just a horrible time to try to pull whataboutism. Very bad time. Families are hugging each other over fear for their country and over a possible civil war.
And also, Republicans have no room to talk about having empathy for the individual whose business was destroyed. Their entire stance on COVID-19 is a macro-based viewpoint. Greatest number for the greatest number of people. "Oh, it's so sad that person X died, but it doesn't justify shutting down the economy. Blah blah blah."
But now we have to focus on these individuals, as opposed to our democracy melting down (the biggest possible picture). It's so hypocritical, it's hard to even fathom.
The actual equivalent is not some Hollywood actor failing to speak up enough. It would be Joe Biden holding a rally with left wing extremists who think that 9/11 was an inside job, and telling them that they should storm the Pentagon with Kamala Harris inside. Oh, and hundreds of Democratic congressmen are inside objecting to the finding that 9/11 was legit.
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I think there's a reason for that based on what I know about history and I'll explain. I have heard people say we don't focus too much on condemning the Dresden bombings against Nazi Germany. Yeah what the US done was constituted as a war crime and their racial laws did inspire Nazi Germany except they didn't adopt certain rules because it was even too racist for them (another difference, Jesse Owens said this about Hitler: "Hitler didn't snub me; it was our president who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram"), all are condemned by the people that do know about it, but they still think Nazi Germany's actions were worse overall and deserve more of a bashing (I'm being more equal in this however). Both had concentration camps during WW2, however one had the purpose of gassing millions of Jews. No I'm not supporting Hitler either as my previous comments should make that obvious, but I'm condemning both sides for all their revolting actions. Hopefully you get what I'm coming from.
Stephen Hawking's even said that Israel should talk to Hamas (yeah the smartest man in the world at the time gave Hamas who have had suicide bombings legitimacy. Although suicide bombings have been way less common from them now), and I'm sure he condemns suicide bombings although he never spoke about it. The reason being is that he doesn't see Israel's atrocities being equal in this conflict which he specifically explains in this video. He even says the situation was similar to Apartheid South Africa: "like that in South Africa before 1990. It cannot continue," and Nelson Mandela who ended Apartheid had similar views
Similar to how people focus more on bashing the apartheid state of South Africa and in this other case, yes people do condemn white South African landowning farmers getting murdered at the time, even though there was more focus on bashing the Apartheid state and anyone who supported it (some non-whites supported it too). Then obviously homicide rates dramatically dropped when Apartheid ended which I backed up with a graph before.
Maybe that's why people focus more on bashing on Israel and Apartheid South Africa instead of Palestine and Native South Africans?
Stephen Hawking's explains it pretty well here. He also spoke up against the war in Iraq and Syria, where you could say there isn't too much bashing about Iraqi's killing American soldiers in response even though the justification of the invasion of Iraq was based on nothing but made up stories about WMD's and WikiLeaks "Collateral Murder" really pissed off so many Muslims. The "War on Terror" actually increased terrorist attacks. This might explain why there's more focus on bashing a certain party.
Because they are hypocrites. Is it really so easy to take over the Capitol Building? Lol. After 9/11, I thought security was overkill all over? Pretty strange.
So Trump should be impeached because of those protesters? He runs them from the White House, does he?
There's massive problems in the US. There's a large group who believe that the election was stolen and the social networks which are used to communicate this claim simply delete and censor those claims. It's outrageous and unbelievable.
I would not be surprised to see major civil conflict and maybe TPTB want that, who knows. I guess I am mostly ignored but that's okay. There's not much interesting posted here anyway.
Hi buddy,
Check out a few different news sources. It wasn't people like you who scaled the walls, it was the extremists Trump courted and never admonished, e.g North Carolina Neo Nazis, Proud Boys stand down and stand by, etc. Bunch of wackos with a good sprinkling of normal people caught up in the moment and fed what I see as lies and many clearly don't. Check out the profile of the woman who was shot or the elected official from WV. I am not going to try and persuade you too hard, I can only suggest that you watch news feeds with your own eyes. Check out different sources rather than your regular staples, German news, British, different American publications or news programs that may not be your comfort zone. Watch the arrests and the FBI briefings of the people being charged. Check out the rally and Giuliani's words about trial by combat as he spoke them in that context. If you come to the conclusion that the Liberals were marching around with Militia flags and MAGA hats, then that's cool and so be it.
Post Note - I never felt comfortable with confederate flags, and people who think the holocaust was great. One of my biggest issues with Trump is he never clamped down on this segment of his support and gave them the green light on many occasions. Social issues and human dignity for all is really important to me. Trump broke my heart on this front.
Nothing stopping President Trump from going on TV everyday if he wanted to from the White House. He is free to do that and that is his privilege until he leaves office. The only one he did was a 3 minute cameo intended to save his ass from further problems after 5 people died including a cop at the Capitol Riots.
Make a statement for unity and prayers for people dying from COVID-19, President Trump. Standard operating procedure for a leader.
Have you been following Pennsylvania? An elected Senator is not being seated/Holy smokes Bat Man... koko for koko puffs.
I just wish more people like you actually spoke up about the looting and rioting instead of staying silent or justifying it like the Hollywood celebrities that continue to set a bad example to their fans by justifying the rioting and looting. I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the reasons why people decided to vote for a Republican over a Democrat.
