2020 US Presidential Election

[Contrast]

Am I reading that correctly? Do you...agree....with Sam Harris, the same guy who doesn't believe in free will?

Yes, I know Sam is anti war and knocks Abraham Religions.

Denial of volition is an unrelated issue to figure out what role consciousness plays in the natural world.


Libertarian/Anarcho Capitalist are extremely anti war as well, many of them believe free will exist (like me) and I don't get along with them.

 

[Zugzug]

She would keep the status quo. How do you motivate people to vote for that. Granted now we now things can get incrementally worse.

I agree Bernie isn't perfect but at least his primary concern has always been the people and not the wealthy donors.

Where I am dubious of Bernie is his blind spot for quality of care. Of course I'm not talking about anyone on this forum, but Bernie has a lot of young, healthy supporters who don't really care too much about quality of care. They care more about lower costs (understandable) and universality (understandable). The same is true for education. College undoubtedly should be more affordable, but making it free would impact the meaning of college as an investment.

One might say that, here we are on a forum complaining about medical neglect, how could it get worse? It can always get worse.

To be clear, I'm not even trying to fear-monger M4A. I just think there are ways to present it where it is less scary for everyone. Instead of burning it all down, he should have found more endorsements from politicians and insisted that the first step was to lower the age for medicare and perform a diligent assessment of the outcome.

Bernie definitely is a moral dude who cares, but I think he's too big picture. Politics isn't always sexy. Hillary was a worse candidate, but I feel like she understands politics more than Bernie, which sadly, is necessary to accomplish anything. It wouldn't be that hard for Bernie to tweak his message so that the 4-8 year goals of his presidency and his ability to accomplish them would align, while being more media friendly.

TLDR; I like Warren over Bernie.

 

[Contrast]

Am I reading that correctly? Do you...agree....with Sam Harris, the same guy who doesn't believe in free will?

It's arrogant for science to say reality is an illusion. The natural world has an extended domain of subjective systems that have volition and just because religion historically hijacked it doesn't mean it's not a part of reality.

 

[Born To Slay]

Rural areas cannot be out competed by large cities. Factors that benefit large cities could harm rural areas or vice versa.

Large cities would always dominate if the EC was abolished.

If they lose the vote, then isn't that only fair?

 

[FGG]

Where I am dubious of Bernie is his blind spot for quality of care. Of course I'm not talking about anyone on this forum, but Bernie has a lot of young, healthy supporters who don't really care too much about quality of care. They care more about lower costs (understandable) and universality (understandable). The same is true for education. College undoubtedly should be more affordable, but making it free would impact the meaning of college as an investment.

One might say that, here we are on a forum complaining about medical neglect, how could it get worse? It can always get worse.

To be clear, I'm not even trying to fear-monger M4A. I just think there are ways to present it where it is less scary for everyone. Instead of burning it all down, he should have found more endorsements from politicians and insisted that the first step was to lower the age for medicare and perform a diligent assessment of the outcome.

Bernie definitely is a moral dude who cares, but I think he's too big picture. Politics isn't always sexy. Hillary was a worse candidate, but I feel like she understands politics more than Bernie, which sadly, is necessary to accomplish anything. It wouldn't be that hard for Bernie to tweak his message so that the 4-8 year goals of his presidency and his ability to accomplish them would align, while being more media friendly.

TLDR; I like Warren over Bernie.

You made some fair points but even if Bernie was a tad ineffectual he is sorely needed to start the ball rolling so to speak.

He definitely isn't as well versed in the political sphere as Clinton. Very true. And in fact giving voters too much credit (by thinking they would understand the difference between democratic socialism and Marxist socialism) was one of his downfalls.

 

[Contrast]

As my health got worse and worse I became less moderate left and more socialist.

I'm starting to wonder if this is bias. I was always a lefty but now this far left until my health shit the bed.

 

[Born To Slay]

As my health got worse and worse I became less moderate left and more socialist.

I'm starting to wonder if this is bias. I was always a lefty but now this far left until my health shit the bed.

How would it be bias? My health sucks and I'm pretty far left.

 

[GlennS]

I read that most was caused by out of state extremists.

The FBI disagrees.

https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/antifa-trump-fbi/

 

[Contrast]

How would it be bias? My health sucks and I'm pretty far left.

I had friends who were strong conservative/libertarians that didn't hesitate to tell me that the poor is some kind of economic nuisance that needs to be neutralized.


I get the idea on how they view the world and it's scary (for us) not anyone else. Being double decker disabled taught me alot more empathy.

What I'm saying is I would not have been this far left if I wasn't disabled. It seems extreme leftism is associated with being disabled. I use to be moderate left in thinking.

 

[Lane]

I never voted for anyone but feel we need to support our elected president during these turbulent times. What does bashing him accomplish? Would have Hillary been a better choice?

@just1morething -- Your comments strike me as coming from someone who doesn't follow politics too closely. I think if you did, you'd realize that nobody should be supporting Trump during these turbulent times, which he BTW is largely responsible for. I feel fairly confident history will judge the Republican party harshly for not holding him accountable for his crimes that caused him to be impeached.

Had they done so, the outsized consequences of the pandemic that was so unbelievably mismanaged by Trump and his cohorts would almost certainly have been avoided. Many people don't seem to grasp this pandemic could have been greatly mitigated with a coordinated Federal response, something Trump is completely incapable of providing. When he's more interested in the ratings of his news conferences than how to ramp up testing capabilities, that says volumes.

The crimes (both legal and moral) this man has committed against the U.S. are too numerous to get into in a single post. However, James Mattis penned an oped today regarding Trump's response to the George Floyd killing and ensuing protests. I'll paste a few excerpts below, which pretty clearly illustrate what a traitor this man is to this country. The more people realize this, and the more people criticize him--and indict him for his continuing crimes like assaulting peaceful protestors--the better off the U.S. and the world will be.

Former Defense Secretary Mattis' statement on Trump and protests

Former Secretary of Defense James Mattis castigated President Donald Trump as "the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people" in a forceful rebuke of his former boss as nationwide protests have intensified over the death of George Floyd.

Read Mattis' statement: -- In Union There Is Strength

I have watched this week's unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words "Equal Justice Under Law" are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

... We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law... Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him...

We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution...

James Mattis

 

[Lucifer]

If Trump really cared about BLM movement he would have done something about it by now and made sure there is justice to those people who didn't deserve to die in the hands of police brutality.

It's insane how he actually told the police to harm his citizens through tear gas and force. He even got the military to intervene as well.

Did you guys see the video when the police put some bricks in certain locations? They are the ones promoting the looting and the damaging of properties.

Is it true that the reason why Obama couldn't do much when he was elected because Republicans had the majority of power to change laws?

 

[just1morething]

The FBI disagrees.

https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/antifa-trump-fbi/

I meant in the Twin Cities area, not the nation.

https://www.fox9.com/news/twin-cities-mayors-vast-majority-of-violent-rioters-are-from-out-of-state

 

[GlennS]

Is it true that the reason why Obama couldn't do much when he was elected because Republicans had the majority of power to change laws?

Yep. Anyone still remember "The Party of No"?

 

[Born To Slay]

If Trump really cared about BLM movement he would have done something about it by now and made sure there is justice to those people who didn't deserve to die in the hands of police brutality.

It's insane how he actually told the police to harm his citizens through tear gas and force. He even got the military to intervene as well.

Did you guys see the video when the police put some bricks in certain locations? They are the ones promoting the looting and the damaging of properties.

Is it true that the reason why Obama couldn't do much when he was elected because Republicans had the majority of power to change laws?

To you last question, that absolutely is true. You see, to pass a law in the United States most laws need a simple majority (50% +1) in the House of Representatives, a 2/3rds majority (60/100) votes in the senate and a signature from the President.

During Obama's first two years on office Democrats held large majorities in both the house and senate and that's when he passed all his signature laws (Wall Street Reform, the stimulus and most famously the Affordable Care Act aka Obamacare) but for his last six years the republicans held the house and the last two years they held the senate. Republican obstruction was truly unprecedented at this time and they really used their power to stop any Obama initiative possible.

In the last two years with both the house and senate, Republican obstruction was so utterly obscene that they actually blocked Obama from nominating a Supreme Court justice. This was (and still is) the only time in American history this has happened and serves as a remark of how totally unwilling the republicans in the legislature were to work with Obama. They basically just pretended Obama wasn't even there.

This is why Obama, very controversially, pushed the executive branch as far as humanly possible in his last few years. Because with Mitch McConnell in charge of the senate, there was serious partisan gridlock that makes the disagreements of today look like a tea party.

 

[aot]

This shit is going to fuck our country for life. Long after Trump is out of office, the scars of these events, the distrust many now justifiably feel towards cops, will not even begin to fade until someone faces some consequences, and there is massive reforms in our law enforcement.

But neither one of those will happen because life's a bitch and then you die.

You bet your ass that I'd be at those protests if not for my tinnitus. But instead, I'm on the outside looking in on some fucked up shit.

 

[Lucifer]

This shit is going to fuck our country for life. Long after Trump is out of office, the scars of these events, the distrust many now justifiably feel towards cops, will not even begin to fade until someone faces some consequences, and there is massive reforms in our law enforcement.

But neither one of those will happen because life's a bitch and then you die.

You bet your ass that I'd be at those protests if not for my tinnitus. But instead, I'm on the outside looking in on some fucked up shit.

I would have done the same if it weren't for my tinnitus and hyperacusis issues. I hate seeing the cops treating African Americans unfairly when they have done nothing wrong.

In my country the Police don't use excessive force like that ever unless you weren't resisting. If a cop were to ever done that in my country when they did nothing wrong they probably would have got a massive sentence. The cops treat you very fairly unless you do something real bad.

There is even a Police show in my country that shows what the police do when they encounter people when they get a callout, pull someone over etc.

Do they have a show like that in USA? I would think not because none of the Police there would like to be recorded. Remember when none of the cops had their body cam on when they murdered McAtee.

 

[Lucifer]

To you last question, that absolutely is true. You see, to pass a law in the United States most laws need a simple majority (50% +1) in the House of Representatives, a 2/3rds majority (60/100) votes in the senate and a signature from the President.

During Obama's first two years on office Democrats held large majorities in both the house and senate and that's when he passed all his signature laws (Wall Street Reform, the stimulus and most famously the Affordable Care Act aka Obamacare) but for his last six years the republicans held the house and the last two years they held the senate. Republican obstruction was truly unprecedented at this time and they really used their power to stop any Obama initiative possible.

In the last two years with both the house and senate, Republican obstruction was so utterly obscene that they actually blocked Obama from nominating a Supreme Court justice. This was (and still is) the only time in American history this has happened and serves as a remark of how totally unwilling the republicans in the legislature were to work with Obama. They basically just pretended Obama wasn't even there.

This is why Obama, very controversially, pushed the executive branch as far as humanly possible in his last few years. Because with Mitch McConnell in charge of the senate, there was serious partisan gridlock that makes the disagreements of today look like a tea party.

I still don't really understand about the USA political system but I'm willing to learn. Is there any websites that have a detailed explanation on how it all works?

 

[Juan]

I dislike Trump for his policies on war, the wall, disability and the enviorment, but he is a very good at economic deals.

View attachment 39201

He is an expert in Real Estate and risky economic deal making and he exhibited those skills precisely in his negotiations with North Korea.

He inherited a real estate empire and then carried out a marketing campaign to try to pass inherited property as something he had built or like a business he had turned around to be profitable. There are these stories about Trump making profitable multi family properties that were performing poorly but, really, he just inherited it.

 

[Born To Slay]

I still don't really understand about the USA political system but I'm willing to learn. Is there any websites that have a detailed explanation on how it all works?

https://www.usa.gov/branches-of-government
Here's a good place to start.

oh and also, we actually do have cop shows. They basically serve as police propaganda tho since you'll never see any of the horrific murders the police commit. We also have dozens of crime dramas that make the police look like hot shit.

 

[Born To Slay]

I dislike Trump for his policies on war, the wall, disability and the enviorment, but he is a very good at economic deals.

View attachment 39201

He is an expert in Real Estate and risky economic deal making and he exhibited those skills precisely in his negotiations with North Korea.

The North Korea negotiations have been a failure, nothing tangible what so ever was done. It was just some photo ops.

 

[linearb]

This is why Obama, very controversially, pushed the executive branch as far as humanly possible in his last few years. Because with Mitch McConnell in charge of the senate, there was serious partisan gridlock that makes the disagreements of today look like a tea party.

I called it shortsighted then, and it sure looks that way now.

I called the GOP shortsighted for killing the filibuster; we'll see if that ever comes back to haunt them.

https://www.usa.gov/branches-of-government
Here's a good place to start.

oh and also, we actually do have cop shows. They basically serve as police propaganda tho since you'll never see any of the horrific murders the police commit. We also have dozens of crime dramas that make the police look like hot shit.

Two big exceptions in my book:
The Wire, despite having an unrealistically sympathetic core team of "good cops", did a great job portraying the Baltimore police in general as stats-obsessed thugs who beat people for little reason. And, even that core group had guys stealing money/drugs etc in it. I believe this also showed guns being planted on perps and stuff like that.

The Shield is an incredibly dark show that follows a corrupt police officer for a period of years and shows how he and one other real psycho are able to manipulate other cops into playing along, and basically operate as a criminal enterprise. It also shows that even once things get bad enough that the FBI gets involved, actually holding anyone "accountable" is very difficult.

 

[linearb]

The North Korea negotiations have been a failure, nothing tangible what so ever was done. It was just some photo ops.

well, at least we didn't have to randomly brutalize a bunch of Americans for those photo ops. ofc, north koreans are brutalized early and often.

 

[linearb]

The FBI disagrees.

https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/antifa-trump-fbi/

https://www.businessinsider.com/3-b...s-george-floyd-protest-riot-conspiracy-2020-6

It turns out that the real Antifa, were all the right wing extremists we meant along the way

also, NYPD questioning protesters about their beliefs on being "anti fascist". LOL! I can see saying, "are you a member of the organization Antifa and are you here to promote violence?".

Asking a given American, "what are your views on `anti fascism`, I think the only correct answer is `it's a great thing, it's the entire reason we fought world war II, you jackbooted buffoon`"?

 

[Born To Slay]

I called it shortsighted then, and it sure looks that way now.

I called the GOP shortsighted for killing the filibuster; we'll see if that ever comes back to haunt them.

Two big exceptions in my book:
The Wire, despite having an unrealistically sympathetic core team of "good cops", did a great job portraying the Baltimore police in general as stats-obsessed thugs who beat people for little reason. And, even that core group had guys stealing money/drugs etc in it. I believe this also showed guns being planted on perps and stuff like that.

The Shield is an incredibly dark show that follows a corrupt police officer for a period of years and shows how he and one other real psycho are able to manipulate other cops into playing along, and basically operate as a criminal enterprise. It also shows that even once things get bad enough that the FBI gets involved, actually holding anyone "accountable" is very difficult.

I definitely understand the case for it being short sighted but at the same time, President Obama was tiring to run a country alongside a congress that was purposefully trying their best to ruin his presidency. There wasn't really a good option for him even if it did somewhat bite us now with a Trump.

I think the GOP def will regret that, if Joe wins and the Dems take the senate, I'm sure you'll see the two ancient dem judges replaced with far more liberal replacements then otherwise.

thanks for the recommendations, that should be interesting.

 

[GlennS]

You bet your ass that I'd be at those protests if not for my tinnitus. But instead, I'm on the outside looking in on some fucked up shit.

BTW, this is dejavu for me because it wasn't that long ago that we had protests against gun violence, another issue the GOP can't address (as they feel the only solution to guns is more guns).

Unfortunately society has such a damn short memory. By November Trump's approval ratings will probably drift back to baseline. There's really only a narrow window for things like this to impact an election.

I don't think there's a single issue the GOP can actually address, climate change all the way down. They don't really govern as much as tend to their stranglehold on power and serve the needs of their corporate sponsors while successfully convincing the Fox News crowd to vote against their real interests.

I'm not even sure how many people vote republican for the sake of republican policies anymore... a lot of it is just out of fear for the demonized "leftist agenda". Both sides have employed McCarthy-like tactics of demonizing "the other", but it was the GOP who perfected that formula first. It's now just in a race to the bottom.

 

[aot]

https://www.usa.gov/branches-of-government
Here's a good place to start.

oh and also, we actually do have cop shows. They basically serve as police propaganda tho since you'll never see any of the horrific murders the police commit. We also have dozens of crime dramas that make the police look like hot shit.

Some shows do.

I called it shortsighted then, and it sure looks that way now.

I called the GOP shortsighted for killing the filibuster; we'll see if that ever comes back to haunt them.

Two big exceptions in my book:
The Wire, despite having an unrealistically sympathetic core team of "good cops", did a great job portraying the Baltimore police in general as stats-obsessed thugs who beat people for little reason. And, even that core group had guys stealing money/drugs etc in it. I believe this also showed guns being planted on perps and stuff like that.

The Shield is an incredibly dark show that follows a corrupt police officer for a period of years and shows how he and one other real psycho are able to manipulate other cops into playing along, and basically operate as a criminal enterprise. It also shows that even once things get bad enough that the FBI gets involved, actually holding anyone "accountable" is very difficult.

Also add Mindhunter, which portrays cops inept within the field of criminal psychology, and the second season in particular deals with intense themes of racial injustice. It's inspired by true events, and all the killers depicted are real people, or are inspires by real people.

Also, just because a show has members of Law Enforcement, doesn't make it "propaganda."

(I'm not really into whole a.c.a.b. thing for the record. I just don't feel that way. But I understand where it comes from.)

 

[Clmnt]

I wish more people would criticize the massive military budget and the enormous amount of propaganda put into glorifying war. The military budget is the biggest problem.

I am not American but when I see the budget allocated to the war industry it is just insane!
Just 1% could fund Hough Ear Institute's clinical trials and still money left.

 

[PeteJ]

As my health got worse and worse I became less moderate left and more socialist.

I'm starting to wonder if this is bias. I was always a lefty but now this far left until my health shit the bed.

Leftists don't give a shit about people. They're hypocrites and liars. You're wasting your energies.

 

[PeteJ]

I still don't really understand about the USA political system but I'm willing to learn. Is there any websites that have a detailed explanation on how it all works?

It works by rigging it as both parties are the same. Then the sheep vote.

 

[PeteJ]

I had friends who were strong conservative/libertarians that didn't hesitate to tell me that the poor is some kind of economic nuisance that needs to be neutralized.


I get the idea on how they view the world and it's scary (for us) not anyone else. Being double decker disabled taught me alot more empathy.

What I'm saying is I would not have been this far left if I wasn't disabled. It seems extreme leftism is associated with being disabled. I use to be moderate left in thinking.

Far left would just harm you more severely.