A List of Places Where You Could Be Exposed to Loud Noises. Places to Watch Out for.

[Bill Bauer]

See unlike you Bill, I have loved ones in my life, and i would never endanger their lives on purpose out of paranoia of T.

My loved one cares enough about me to suggest taking the batteries out of the fire alarm. She thinks that the chance of a false alarm resulting in louder T is higher than the chance of a serious fire. Of course this is for each household to decide among themselves. But it is important for people to be given a choice. My post ensured that everyone is aware of this potential cause for a major spike. Choices are a good thing, right?!

Also going to a 110db concert for 6 hours is completely different than slammed door, dropped plates

If you were to follow my advice, I believe you would recover faster and would end up with quieter T at that four months mark. You would then end up not going to the concert and your T would continue to fade. While the former is up for debate, the latter (that you would not give yourself that spike had you followed my advice) is self-evident.

In college we had a fire drill, approx 125db for a minute before I got outside. No spike at all, didn't even protect my ears and I'm fine.

If you start hitting a wall with a hammer, it takes a while before you see objects on the other side of the wall.

I know you're worried but that is laughable.

In addition to preventing spikes, you also want to promote healing. I wouldn't be advising it, if it were not to produce good results for me.

Listen to those who have been here longer than most of us, you'll soon realise you can relax and alleviate some of that anxiety.

I am not anxious.

Also @Bill Bauer referencing terror attacks isn't funny.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Joe4]

Then you're mentally disturbed. You find the deaths of children celebrating a national holiday funny, you are sick. I don't know where you are from but I can tell you and I have very different upbringings and moral codes. I imagine that last post just lost you alot of credibility on this forum.

 

[Joe4]

@Bill Bauer just realised he's in the wrong so now amending posts, instead of "speak for yourself" it read "it is one of the few things I do find funny"

 

[Bill Bauer]

I imagine that last post just lost you alot of credibility on this forum.

That's a risk that I am willing to take.

In college we had a fire drill, approx 125db for a minute before I got outside. No spike at all, didn't even protect my ears and I'm fine.

Someone can attend loud concerts for years and be ok. Then one day they go to a concert that is as loud as all of the previous concerts and get T. Does this example makes it clear what is wrong with your example?

@Bill Bauer just realised he's in the wrong so now amending posts, instead of "speak for yourself" it read "it is one of the few things I do find funny"

Fact check: true. I made the change Before you made your post where you reacted to it. I should have just added "speak for yourself" in front of my original post.

You find the deaths of children celebrating a national holiday funny, you are sick.

If you think that, then you are not going to enjoy the following quote from
Jim Norton's book "Happy Endings":

I really want to pick up a baseball bat and smash one of their heads on the table like DeNiro in The Untouchables. A nice solid CLUNK, the sound of a coconut being split open, followed by blood and brains all over the table and a stunned, uncomfortable silence. Since I am basically a coward and can never find a bat when I need one, I enjoy these thoughts for a few moments and giggle good-naturedly.

 

[newbieT]

If you were to follow my advice, I believe you would recover faster and would end up with quieter T at that four months mark. You would then end up not going to the concert and your T would continue to fade. While the former is up for debate, the latter (that you would not give yourself that spike had you followed my advice) is self-evident.

your advice is to avoid everything. Live under a rock and speak in whispers. If i was to follow your advice I honestly believe my quality of life would be worse off. To quote Red "Terrible thing, to live in fear"

 

[Bill Bauer]

your advice is to avoid everything. Live under a rock and speak in whispers.

Not really!

To quote Red "Terrible thing, to live in fear"

@Red if I remember correctly, you were upset that we can't be like the healthy people, but based on your experiences you believe that doing this (being careful not to be exposed to noise) is preferable to the alternative (louder T), right?

 

[Joe4]

Why would I not like the quote from Happy Endings?

And yes I am struggling to see what is wrong with my example? I couldn't avoid it, it happened, I was lucky it didn't get worse. My point is if a fire alarm won't certainly cause a spike, Jean at cashier number 5 shouting "next please" doesn't require peltors.

 

[glynis]

Why do posts seem to go off track from the original authours post and get personal. ?
We are here to support tinnitus suffers and not pick the bones from members posts.
This stops the thread from being supportive to new members and make them run for the hills ?
I rest my case.
Love glynis x

 

[newbieT]

Not really!

@Red if I remember correctly, you were upset that we can't be like the healthy people, but based on your experiences you believe that doing this (being careful not to be exposed to noise) is preferable to the alternative (louder T), right?

It's a quote from Red from Shawshank Redemption

 

[Bill Bauer]

You find the deaths of children celebrating a national holiday funny, you are sick.

Instead of thinking back to Nice 2016, imagine a T sufferer "doing what it takes" to get that cure. Is this funnier now?

 

[Bill Bauer]

It's a quote from Red from Shawshank Redemption

The point I am trying to make is that @Red made it clear in a number of her posts that she believes we should be protecting our ears. Like me, she is not questioning that it is logical for us to be scared of scary things, she is just feeling sad about it.

 

[newbieT]

To quote Red "Terrible thing, to live in fear"

@Red if I remember correctly, you were upset that we can't be like the healthy people, but based on your experiences you believe that doing this (being careful not to be exposed to noise) is preferable to the alternative (louder T), right?

It's a quote from Red from Shawshank Redemption

The point I am trying to make is that @Red made it clear in a number of her posts that she believes we should be protecting our ears. Like me, she is not questioning that it is logical for us to be scared of scary things, she is just feeling sad about it.

Swoosh

 

[Joe4]

I do agree with @glynis but would like to make it clear I do not find the death of children funny. And certainly wouldn't run them over to stop me from having T.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It sounds like one of the characters in that movie/book was named Red.

One of the posters here made posts lamenting the fact that our T might fade but it sucks that we will always have to be careful now. So...

 

[Bill Bauer]

would like to make it clear I do not find the death of children funny

You're no fun.

And certainly wouldn't run them over to stop me from having T.

Neither would I (I think).

 

[just1morething]

Boy did this thread turn sour. I haven't read one like this in awhile. Maybe some of my posts aren't the best either?, I'm not sure. I know the stress of this condition can make us say some inappropriate things. I'm sure I do that at times. Some of my humor may be of bad taste, but I don't mean it to be that way.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Boy did this thread turn sour.

Nah, it was all in good fun and between friends.

 

[just1morething]

Nah, it was all in good fun and between friends.

That's what I thought. I see it was your thread.

 

[Ed209]

My phonobia has reached levels that I wish I never had, and my H followed. A lot of things feel too loud now, where they were ok 6 months ago. Any tips to deal with this? So I just leave the plugs more aside even when I feel it's too loud for my H?

That's what we're trying to prevent Jurgen, and you are an example, as was I, as to what can happen when we become unnecessarily anxious about the sounds around us. It's good that you have recognised this and are getting some help. I wish you all the best buddy.

 

[Bill Bauer]

That's what we're trying to prevent Jurgen, and you are an example, as was I, as to what can happen when we become unnecessarily anxious about the sounds around us. It's good that you have recognised this and are getting some help. I wish you all the best buddy.

It is possible that had he not protected his ears, he would be experiencing a more intense ordeal. In any case, assuming that this is not the case (I doubt it that it is not), I guess there might be two types of people: people who develop problems when not protecting themselves everywhere where noise is a possibility, and people who develop problems when they protect their ears. My advice is to try the strategy (protect ears vs. do not protect ears) that makes the most sense to you. If you notice that your strategy is not working for you (e.g., you are constantly getting new traumas on top of your original acoustic trauma and this seems to be slowing down your recovery, you seem to be developing H), switch your strategy right away.

 

[Jazzer]

I have multiple sounds, that are loud enough to be heard over pretty much all background noise all day long. I have a piercing dentist drill high frequency, a lower pitched drone, and constant hissing underneath it all. I also get electrical like zapping around my head from time to time. It is generally a cocophany of noise. It drove me to the darkest of places that only one other condition managed to take me to. I improved after a long time trying to fight against it. This included stressing about all sorts of sounds and avoiding going out.

I only continued posting here to share my positive experience of overcoming the torture of it (by learning to ignore it), and to try and help others. Success stories are much harder to come by because people tend not to post them. But, negative stories (as with anything in life) are everywhere.

I'm just trying to help people avoid the slippery slope into phonophobia and isolation, because I've also been there and it's horrible. Having to think about everything all the time; the hyper-vigilance and over analysis of every sound becomes exhausting.

People are going to hear a door slam, freak out because they've heard it's bad on here, which in turn will invoke a CNS response sending adrenaline and cortisone all over their body. It's no way to live, and it's certainly not how you take control of your life again with tinnitus.

@Ed209 Forgive me for coming back again Ed.

"It is generally a cocophany of noise."

"I only continued posting here to share my positive experience of overcoming the torture of it (by learning to ignore it.)

Can I ask you:
* presumably your noise is at the same level as it was?
* is your positive experience of overcoming it, purely an improvement in your ability to ignore it?
* would you consider such an ability, to constitute habituation?
* or do you consider loud, noise induced Tinnitus to be un-habituatable?

Sorry if I am being overly inquisitive.
Your calm acceptance is pretty impressive to me.
Best
Jazzer.

 

[Ed209]

@Ed209 Forgive me for coming back again Ed.

"It is generally a cocophany of noise."

"I only continued posting here to share my positive experience of overcoming the torture of it (by learning to ignore it.)

Can I ask you:
* presumably your noise is at the same level as it was?
* is your positive experience of overcoming it, purely an improvement in your ability to ignore it?
* would you consider such an ability, to constitute habituation?
* or do you consider loud, noise induced Tinnitus to be un-habituatable?

Sorry if I am being overly inquisitive.
Your calm acceptance is pretty impressive to me.
Best
Jazzer.

It's the same jazzer, I hear it but don't really react to it anymore. Some days I do/will, but on the whole, I pretty much go about my day and don't think about it all that much. It is pretty much down to ignoring it, and that is the essence of habituation. The noise kind of exists on a seperate plane of my brain; the second I think, or overly worry about it, it's there in all it's glory. If I've got other things on my mind, however, it's not necessarily front and centre, but co-existing on a different realm of my consciousness.

Tinnitus is known to be associated with deeper processing centres of the brain. It's theorised that once signals travel from the ear to the auditory cortex, caudate and putamen, they then make their way to other regions of the brain where more sophisticated processing takes place. This involves memory, and your brain interpreting the meaning of the sound, whilst giving it emotional significance. There are various studies that have been carried out on the brain of people with tinnitus vs people without using MEGs and EEGs. What's usually apparent, is that the tinnitus brains have other areas activated, with neurons firing in synch with the auditory cortex. It's like a complex web of connections. Many believe that the way we deal with tinnitus (especially early on) has ramifications on how the brain learns to deal with the problem. If the amygdala attaches relevance to it, it's likely our emotions will also be caught up in it, creating a heightened perception.

Our behaviour can be an important factor in how the problem gets handled. Some of the overprotection, and avoidance practices, attach significant weight to the tinnitus signal in your subconsciousness. The brain is smart, and will usually learn to ignore it if you don't become overly anxious about it. Loud noise is a common trigger, but the way we deal with the aftermath can lead to further problems if we let it get out of control.

You can seek out more information about this online. Another area of research implicates a faulty gating (filtering) system (which I've read about many times in New Scientist magazine), which is jointly connected with chronic pain disorder. I'll post a excerpt and a couple of links below, but I recommend further research and reading:

"Tinnitus and chronic pain are sensory-perceptual disorders associated with negative affect and high impact on well-being and behavior. It is now becoming increasingly clear that higher cognitive and affective brain systems are centrally involved in the pathology of both disorders. We propose that the ventromedial prefrontal cortex and the nucleus accumbens are part of a central 'gatekeeping' system in both sensory modalities, a system which evaluates the relevance and affective value of sensory stimuli and controls information flow via descending pathways. If this frontostriatal system is compromised, long-lasting disturbances are the result. Parallels in both systems are striking and mutually informative, and progress in understanding central gating mechanisms might provide a new impetus to the therapy of tinnitus and chronic pain."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26412095/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21220097/?i=2&from=/26412095/related

 

[Jazzer]

It's the same jazzer, I hear it but don't really react to it anymore. Some days I do/will, but on the whole, I pretty much go about my day and don't think about it all that much. It is pretty much down to ignoring it, and that is the essence of habituation. The noise kind of exists on a seperate plane of my brain; the second I think, or overly worry about it, it's there in all it's glory. If I've got other things on my mind, however, it's not necessarily front and centre, but co-existing on a different realm of my consciousness.

Tinnitus is known to be associated with deeper processing centres of the brain. It's theorised that once signals travel from the ear to the auditory cortex, caudate and putamen, they then make their way to other regions of the brain where more sophisticated processing takes place. This involves memory, and your brain interpreting the meaning of the sound, whilst giving it emotional significance. There are various studies that have been carried out on the brain of people with tinnitus vs people without using MEGs and EEGs. What's usually apparent, is that the tinnitus brains have other areas activated, with neurons firing in synch with the auditory cortex. It's like a complex web of connections. Many believe that the way we deal with tinnitus (especially early on) has ramifications on how the brain learns to deal with the problem. If the amygdala attaches relevance to it, it's likely our emotions will also be caught up in it, creating a heightened perception.

Our behaviour can be an important factor in how the problem gets handled. Some of the overprotection, and avoidance practices, attach significant weight to the tinnitus signal in your subconsciousness. The brain is smart, and will usually learn to ignore it if you don't become overly anxious about it. Loud noise is a common trigger, but the way we deal with the aftermath can lead to further problems if we let it get out of control.

You can seek out more information about this online. Another area of research implicates a faulty gating (filtering) system (which I've read about many times in New Scientist magazine), which is jointly connected with chronic pain disorder. I'll post a excerpt and a couple of links below, but I recommend further research and reading:

"Tinnitus and chronic pain are sensory-perceptual disorders associated with negative affect and high impact on well-being and behavior. It is now becoming increasingly clear that higher cognitive and affective brain systems are centrally involved in the pathology of both disorders. We propose that the ventromedial prefrontal cortex and the nucleus accumbens are part of a central 'gatekeeping' system in both sensory modalities, a system which evaluates the relevance and affective value of sensory stimuli and controls information flow via descending pathways. If this frontostriatal system is compromised, long-lasting disturbances are the result. Parallels in both systems are striking and mutually informative, and progress in understanding central gating mechanisms might provide a new impetus to the therapy of tinnitus and chronic pain."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26412095/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21220097/?i=2&from=/26412095/related

@Ed209 - Thank you so much for coming back with such an informative reply.
My noise ramped up in June 2014, after a particular musician (a friend of 35 years) decided to play far too loud, and far too close.
Since then my hiss/noise level has been constant.
However, I was really interested in your case because I have become aware of a similar pattern in my own experience.
Having been in hell for three years, I am realising days when I am living well, conversing well, feeling benevelant to all I meet, and enjoying life.
I no longer look for a cure, far less expect one.
As a Tinnitus owner (I dislike admitting to sufferer) I am beginning to live well almost alongside it.
A different plane, as you say.
'Habituation' seemed like a too 'high-falutin' description, but just maybe I'm getting there.
I have Tinnitus - I expect some hiss - more often than not, I don't care.
I am very grateful for your time Ed.
Thank you
Jazzer

 

[Ed209]

@Ed209 - Thank you so much for coming back with such an informative reply.
My noise ramped up in June 2014, after a particular musician (a friend of 35 years) decided to play far too loud, and far too close.
Since then my hiss/noise level has been constant.
However, I was really interested in your case because I have become aware of a similar pattern in my own experience.
Having been in hell for three years, I am realising days when I am living well, conversing well, feeling benevelant to all I meet, and enjoying life.
I no longer look for a cure, far less expect one.
As a Tinnitus owner (I dislike admitting to sufferer) I am beginning to live well almost alongside it.
A different plane, as you say.
'Habituation' seemed like a too 'high-falutin' description, but just maybe I'm getting there.
I have Tinnitus - I expect some hiss - more often than not, I don't care.
I am very grateful for your time Ed.
Thank you
Jazzer

No problem Jazzer. And you are right, the more normal - or back on track - your life becomes, the better ones control/reaction to the tinnitus usually is. Having many, genuinely great evenings, socialising and just having fun does help. It takes you out of the fight or flight state which the tinnitus puts you in, and into more of a content, relaxed and happy mentality.

 

[Red]

The point I am trying to make is that @Red made it clear in a number of her posts that she believes we should be protecting our ears. Like me, she is not questioning that it is logical for us to be scared of scary things, she is just feeling sad about it.

@Red if I remember correctly, you were upset that we can't be like the healthy people, but based on your experiences you believe that doing this (being careful not to be exposed to noise) is preferable to the alternative (louder T), right?

Yes, you are correct. Not only that, but I have experienced firsthand already how avoidance is so much more helpful. Yes, even using earplugs and earmuffs is not a suitable replacement for avoidance.

In the third or fourth week of November I bought earmuffs and started wearing them on the bus, which I would take daily for work. At some point earlier on in this month (December) there was a new bus driver who not only had the bus intercom system turned on, but had the volume incredibly loud. I wore my ear protection and kept shuffling seats in an attempt to not be near one of the speakers. I suppose I must have not seen one of the speakers and ended up getting blasted. Even with ear protection on, it made my tinnitus arguably at its worse and gave me a new tone. Ever since then, I have opted for ridesharing services despite how expensive they are. I have sworn off using the bus.

Now, to my amazement, and in less than a month, not only has my new tone vanished, but my tinnitus has gone from moderate to mild. It is amazing to think that just cutting out a 15 minute bus drive with ear protection could have such benefits.

 

[Ed209]

Yes, you are correct. Not only that, but I have experienced firsthand already how avoidance is so much more helpful. Yes, even using earplugs and earmuffs is not a suitable replacement for avoidance.

In the third or fourth week of November I bought earmuffs and started wearing them on the bus, which I would take daily for work. At some point earlier on in this month (December) there was a new bus driver who not only had the bus intercom system turned on, but had the volume incredibly loud. I wore my ear protection and kept shuffling seats in an attempt to not be near one of the speakers. I suppose I must have not seen one of the speakers and ended up getting blasted. Even with ear protection on, it made my tinnitus arguably at its worse and gave me a new tone. Ever since then, I have opted for ridesharing services despite how expensive they are. I have sworn off using the bus.

Now, to my amazement, and in less than a month, not only has my new tone vanished, but my tinnitus has gone from moderate to mild. It is amazing to think that just cutting out a 15 minute bus drive with ear protection could have such benefits.

I don't want to sound rude, but it sounds like you were anxious about the bus ride. I can't see how a bus intercom can be considered dangerous whilst wearing ear muffs? I think your fear to the situation drove your emotions - which flooded your body with adrenaline - and put you into a state of fight or flight.

Once you are in this state, your senses are heightened, and your tinnitus can and will spike. I've been in these situations enough times to know spikes can very much be driven by fear.

I could understand the risk of physical inner ear damage if the situation was a real threat. But, your story sounds more psychological/emotional. Your amygdala learns from this kind of behaviour making the stress response more intense each time a perceived threat occurs. It's a good case of the vicious cycle that tinnitus can put us into.

Don't get me wrong, there are real dangers out there that can mess our ears up, but 90% of the stuff I read on here suggests a lot of you need more help.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I can't see how a bus intercom can be considered dangerous whilst wearing ear muffs?

And I can't see how giraffes have the long necks they have in all of the photos. No way! It must be some kind of a mistake. Maybe it is our stress levels that make their necks appear that long to us.
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!"

 

[DebInAustralia]

You have chosen a contentious issue to start a thread.

You must have anticipated that many of us are going to disagree with your recommendations to disarm fire alarms and air bags.

You have made a conscious decision to disarming fire alarms and air bags. That is fine. Suggesting others follow your lead is irresponsible. Surely, people on here have more commonsense than this than to follow your suggestions.

I think we do need to be careful about ear protection because of our vulnerability to further injury. However, id steer away from hypervigilence as I believe ( from four years experience) that this is counterproductive to habituation.

I have to question agendas here. As Glynis said, this is a support forum. healthy debates can lead to greater understanding, but personal attacks should not be part of any support forum ( no matter how amusing it might seem to some!)

 

[Bill Bauer]

Suggesting others follow your lead is irresponsible.

All I did was point out that this is an option and that people weigh all pros and cons and choose what is best for them.

but personal attacks should not be part of any support forum ( no matter how amusing it might seem to some!)

@Red shared her experience. You will agree that she is the best judge of what had caused her T spike. The experience that she shared with us is the experience echoed by countless posts on this forum.

@Ed209 went on to simply dismiss her post (and the experiences of countless others, including me) by saying that despite what she believes, what she says has happened (and what she says has caused her T spike) could not have happened. Is that what you had in mind when you wrote about "personal attacks"? If so, I agree - to dismiss someone's experience like that is messed up. In case someone's T is so disturbing that they are not thinking straight and can't see the meaning of @Ed209 's post, I attempted to clarify it for them.

 

[Bill Bauer]

How is saying that you can't see how X Could happen, when X DID happen different from saying that you can't see how giraffes have such long necks? Isn't this equivalent to rejecting reality and substituting it with "your own reality"?