Able to Go to Loud Pubs/Bars?

[Hopeful1]

I will go longer inside the pub. Because I want to. Thats it. simple.

Then why ask the forum when you are doing it anyway.

 

[Zora]

Then why ask the forum when you are doing it anyway.

To form myself an Idea of what can happen. Also I wanted and still want to know what the forum thinks.

If you followed this thread you can see that apparantly there is no 1 answer. Like "yes it will damage" or "no it wont damage".
Some say this some say that. So its NOT that I am going "anyway", it is because I can now estimate whats too much and what still okay

 

[AxlRose]

Went to nightclubs with good earplugs
Went shooting with ear muffs

T went up both cases

Permanently, or just temporarily?

 

[Bobby B]

the Nightclub was 2 weeks of T, H then gone on morning- but the damage must have been permanent even if the brain can switch T off

The shooting T seems permanent though, although it has gotten a bit better since

 

[Zora]

I wanted to continue this thread in a "today I did this and this even though I have T" -style. Like "today I -went to a loud pub - drove a rollercoaster -went to a club" etc. to show that we are still able to live a normal life, and not have to worry about every single sound (concerning T not H). I guess that everyone can do what they are comfortable with. I want to live, normally and happily.

I dont listen much to my T anymore, I also dont browse this site as much as I used to (and If I come here only to read success stories) hopefully that will finally speed up my habituation process. I have a full-time job and the summer is starting here in Germany so it will be a good time I'll let you know if I do go to a loud event and how my T and I myself behaves.

Good bye and good luck. #itsahardknocklife

Zora

 

[OnkelFritz]

Then how did i get T even after wearing ear plugs...please dont say that i did not wear them right..

99% it´s attention. You are quite new at the T business.

 

[Hopeful1]

99% it´s attention. You are quite new at the T business.

what do you mean attention.....my T can hear over everything TV, traffic on High T days, it low some days and high someday. I can forget it when I focus on something like at work or watching its always there..........I have H also and its reactive.......I might be new to T but read tons about it.....yes tons....and I know more than an average ENT about T......read all my posts you will know!!

 

[erik]

I go all the time, no issues. Yea it's loud at times but that is life. I have my hearing checked yearly (with high freq audiogram) and no change. Worrying is worst than what probably might not happen

 

[Mario martz]

I go all the time, no issues. Yea it's loud at times but that is life. I have my hearing checked yearly (with high freq audiogram) and no change. Worrying is worst than what probably might not happen

you still go to loud bars?
wearing earplugs right?

 

[JohnnyMx]

you still go to loud bars?
wearing earplugs right?

Yes I think that was what he said.

I also go to pubs, bars and some loud restaurants very often. I ALWAYS use earplugs, and I have not had any problems.

Take protection, use a level reader in your smartphone if you feel necesary, and you will be ok.

T is a life changing thing... but fear is as bad as T, maybe more.

Regards,
Johnny.

 

[Mario martz]

Yes I think that was what he said.

I also go to pubs, bars and some loud restaurants very often. I ALWAYS use earplugs, and I have not had any problems.

Take protection, use a level reader in your smartphone if you feel necesary, and you will be ok.

T is a life changing thing... but fear is as bad as T, maybe more.

Regards,
Johnny.

Thanks Johnny!
im afraid to ask this "dumb question"
but whats loud?
i mean... ive been to restaurants or bars that seem to be around 75-85 decibels
(checked on my decibel app)
but i read somewhere that you dont have to wear earplugs if its above 85
what do you consider?

 

[Ed209]

My personal opinion is that it's fine to go to bars and restaurants with ear plugs. There is a clear divide on this forum when it comes to these questions, so there's never going to be an answer everyone agrees to.

I've never seen a study or had a 'so called' expert inform me otherwise. In fact the advice handed out by all the audiologists that I've encountered is to carry on as normally as possible; protecting when loud and only avoiding when insanely loud. I've been explicitly told numerous times not to avoid going out (to avoid potentially loud sounds) because it will make my tinnitus worse. It's the fact that you're allowing tinnitus to dictate your life and takeover you're actions. Moderately loud sound with protection - which covers pretty much most situations except live music - is safe (in my opinion). This is as long as you are using appropriate ear plugs properly.

Everything online is anecdotal and that's the problem. There is a well known data analysis problem which scientists have to deal with all the time. Sometimes we think there is a connection when actually there isn't. I'll give you an example below:

Imagine you are studying the effects of smoking. The data starts to come in and it is noted that a lot of the smokers have yellowing of their teeth. It is also observed that the cases of lung cancer are much higher. The problem is when the data becomes entangled which is what makes analysis so hard. For example, it could be noted that yellowing of the teeth statistically leads to lung cancer, which isn't true. This was better described by a professor (who's name eludes me) who discussed this issue recently. It highlights a common fault which we all share; it is a human bias. Linking seemingly related ideas/data and coming to the wrong conclusions.

The problem I have is that there is zero evidence or proof that it's dangerous to go to a bar with ear plugs. There could be many other causes at play to anyone who has had an increase from this. Maybe it's not the sound at all? It could be any number of things ranging from psychological issues (intense fear of damage) pyscho-somatic, ear wax pushed into the ear drum, raised background cortisol levels, a change in perception etc

A lot will disagree but that's fine. Avoiding loud sound altogether eliminates any risk, but for a lot of people this comes at a huge cost. It comes at an expense to their quality of life.

In short, forum posts about increases caused by X are still anecdotal; no matter what is believed by the poster/s. If there was enough real evidence, the advice given out by audiologists would surely change to reflect this.

 

[Zorro!]

Saw a Bowie cover band last weekend with some friends. Put earplugs in at the start of the show. Glad I did because that shit was loud. Had a great time. No residual effects. I'm at the stage where I'm tired of letting tinnitus run my life. It's a nice stage to have reached.

 

[Mario martz]

My personal opinion is that it's fine to go to bars and restaurants with ear plugs. There is a clear divide on this forum when it comes to these questions, so there's never going to be an answer everyone agrees to.

I've never seen a study or had a 'so called' expert inform me otherwise. In fact the advice handed out by all the audiologists that I've encountered is to carry on as normally as possible; protecting when loud and only avoiding when insanely loud. I've been explicitly told numerous times not to avoid going out (to avoid potentially loud sounds) because it will make my tinnitus worse. It's the fact that you're allowing tinnitus to dictate your life and takeover you're actions. Moderately loud sound with protection - which covers pretty much most situations except live music - is safe (in my opinion). This is as long as you are using appropriate ear plugs properly.

Everything online is anecdotal and that's the problem. There is a well known data analysis problem which scientists have to deal with all the time. Sometimes we think there is a connection when actually there isn't. I'll give you an example below:

Imagine you are studying the effects of smoking. The data starts to come in and it is noted that a lot of the smokers have yellowing of their teeth. It is also observed that the cases of lung cancer are much higher. The problem is when the data becomes entangled which is what makes analysis so hard. For example, it could be noted that yellowing of the teeth statistically leads to lung cancer, which isn't true. This was better described by a professor (who's name eludes me) who discussed this issue recently. It highlights a common fault which we all share; it is a human bias. Linking seemingly related ideas/data and coming to the wrong conclusions.

The problem I have is that there is zero evidence or proof that it's dangerous to go to a bar with ear plugs. There could be many other causes at play to anyone who has had an increase from this. Maybe it's not the sound at all? It could be any number of things ranging from psychological issues (intense fear of damage) pyscho-somatic, ear wax pushed into the ear drum, raised background cortisol levels, a change in perception etc

A lot will disagree but that's fine. Avoiding loud sound altogether eliminates any risk, but for a lot of people this comes at a huge cost. It comes at an expense to their quality of life.

In short, forum posts about increases caused by X are still anecdotal; no matter what is believed by the poster/s. If there was enough real evidence, the advice given out by audiologists would surely change to reflect this.

Thank you ed, i totally get what you are saying
ive been trying to avoid concerts or places with live music.
but i still go to restaurants with friends, and i try to not wear earplugs if the noise is below 85db
if its higher than 85 then i wear earfoams.
but then againg.. i have read that some people in here think 80 is way too loud already.
thats what i dont understand lol

 

[Foncky]

My personal opinion is that it's fine to go to bars and restaurants with ear plugs.

Edddd please, we had this conversation before... Why can't you write : "My personal opinion is that if you don't have H or have it mild and think the volume is ok with earplugs, it's fine to go".

Really, you guys can't get what having H means ?
Mario, I don't "think" 80dB is too loud for me, my ears make the thinking for me. 80dB ? "Ok, let's hurt him NOW so he gets out ASAP !!!" they say.

 

[Andunwoody]

relax guys, If I am going I am not taking your ears with me

@Zora Brilliant!! Only just seen this you really made me chuckle. Good to see you are getting out and about and starting to enjoy life again. Well done you.

 

[Ed209]

Edddd please, we had this conversation before... Why can't you write : "My personal opinion is that if you don't have H or have it mild and think the volume is ok with earplugs, it's fine to go".

Really, you guys can't get what having H means ?
Mario, I don't "think" 80dB is too loud for me, my ears make the thinking for me. 80dB ? "Ok, let's hurt him NOW so he gets out ASAP !!!" they say.

Foncky, I'm only saying what I believe applies to the majority. Anyone with H will know their own tolerance and can easily dismiss what I said. I'm still well aware that we are all coming from a different place and advice is based on our personal experience.

For me it just boils down to the overall level of sound involved. I will admit that I get slightly annoyed at the amount of 'danger threads'; I think it could be stipulated that it's primarily a H problem. The last thing newer members need to see is how they should be avoiding all sorts of different things that really aren't an issue with proper ear defenders.

It can and does cause all sorts of other problems, including sound phobias, OCD, over-protection, depression etc.

A lot of you will vehemently disagree, but that's fine. At the end of the day that's what a forum is for.

 

[Foncky]

I can assure you that many new H sufferers won't know their own tolerance.

I agree with you, many people with T could not even be here. That was me for 12 years. Mild T, mild H, no need for forums, just using my common sense when loud activities were involved. A noisy accident later, here I am. I hated forums, the rare times I would read them I'd quickly get afraid. So I never read for longer than 3 minutes...

You speak for the majority but don't forget that just one person with H could misinterpret your words and take the wrong decision.

 

[Mario martz]

Edddd please, we had this conversation before... Why can't you write : "My personal opinion is that if you don't have H or have it mild and think the volume is ok with earplugs, it's fine to go".

Really, you guys can't get what having H means ?
Mario, I don't "think" 80dB is too loud for me, my ears make the thinking for me. 80dB ? "Ok, let's hurt him NOW so he gets out ASAP !!!" they say.

Hey Focky!
i was talking in general, i have seen many many threads and there is always mixed opinions about the decibel and tolerance.
for me i have been in restaurants where the decibels are around 75-85
and i dont wear earplugs, and doesnt seems to have a permanent damage.
i dont have h, so i know is different
the thing is... that i dont know if im doing things right.
or everytime i visit those places i should be ear plugging my ears or not?

 

[Foncky]

Can't tell you. Do you feel something after the restaurant ? Like ear pain, ear fullness, any difference in the ringing ?

If you don't, you're probably ok, although it doesn't mean that in the long term, you won't get more hearing loss or more T than you should.

If you have good plugs you feel comfortable with, there is no reason not to wear them in restaurants or bars. You'll protect your hearing in the long term AND you will be less tired or stressed at the end of the day.

 

[Sara_Bond]

What I'm surprised of, is that people are telling, yeah go live your life, go to the bars etc... I don't really get it! I mean life is not about clubbing and going to the bars!!! Ok there are some quiet bars where you can have fun, the most important is to enjoy the moment with your friends and relatives. You can have fun by having dinner in the garden while putting some soft music in the background. People want to defy Mother Nature but once it's too late, it's too late!

Like said above, protect your hearin in the long term not just seeing the moment. When you are 50 maybe it's ok, when you are in your 20's, that's another matter...

But in the long term, 10 or so years later, these same people are coming here complaining that suddenly they don't understand why they T ramped up with some H...

Anyway people are free to do what they want to do...

 

[Ed209]

I can assure you that many new H sufferers won't know their own tolerance.

I agree with you, many people with T could not even be here. That was me for 12 years. Mild T, mild H, no need for forums, just using my common sense when loud activities were involved. A noisy accident later, here I am. I hated forums, the rare times I would read them I'd quickly get afraid. So I never read for longer than 3 minutes...

You speak for the majority but don't forget that just one person with H could misinterpret your words and take the wrong decision.

Again, duly noted.

 

[Ed209]

What I'm surprised of, is that people are telling, yeah go live your life, go to the bars etc... I don't really get it! I mean life is not about clubbing and going to the bars!!! Ok there are some quiet bars where you can have fun, the most important is to enjoy the moment with your friends and relatives. You can have fun by having dinner in the garden while putting some soft music in the background. People want to defy Mother Nature but once it's too late, it's too late!

Like said above, protect your hearin in the long term not just seeing the moment. When you are 50 maybe it's ok, when you are in your 20's, that's another matter...

But in the long term, 10 or so years later, these same people are coming here complaining that suddenly they don't understand why they T ramped up with some H...

Anyway people are free to do what they want to do...

Clubs are a totally different animal, so is live music. My posts are entirely aimed at everyday life type stuff that a lot of people on here appear to avoid through fear (Not applying this to anyone with H, to be clear).

Pubs (bars), restaurants, cinemas, flights, family parties, weddings, birthdays, trains, cars etc

A lot of these things are seriously hard to avoid. At some point some of you are going to encounter something relatively loud. All I'm saying is put some ear plugs in and don't sweat it, continue and enjoy yourself. Let the paralysing fear go for a moment and live your lives again. If the noise gets into the ridiculous then leave. You'll find though that the ridiculous is mainly reserved for the odd nightclub and live music events. They are more easily avoided anyway. Theres just really no need to go over the top worrying about your ears all the time.

 

[Hopeful1]

I read and thought a lot about T, i think this is what happens.....

We have 12000 outer hair cells, we can lose upto 3000(approx) of them without without any affects. Once we reach this point T or H will start to appear....the more hair cells you damage from this point the more you will perceive T and H...so once you reach this tipping point...you should protect every single hair cell. However with age you lose some anyway. But going to a quiet pub you may lose 10 hair cells....so you may not notice any difference untill you do 50 times....but you go to a concert and lose 100 to 500 you may see the you T increase instantly...

My audiologist says i can go to loud clubs with ear pubs.....he agrees with me that i have read more about T than him....this is the latest paper which combines all we know about T..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895692/

No my audiologist did not know about this when checked, T is too important to leave it to professionals!!!

 

[Sara_Bond]

Clubs are a totally different animal, so is live music. My posts are entirely aimed at everyday life type stuff that a lot of people on here appear to avoid through fear (Not applying this to anyone with H, to be clear).

Pubs (bars), restaurants, cinemas, flights, family parties, weddings, birthdays, trains, cars etc

A lot of these things are seriously hard to avoid. At some point some of you are going to encounter something relatively loud. All I'm saying is put some ear plugs in and don't sweat it, continue and enjoy yourself. Let the paralysing fear go for a moment and live your lives again. If the noise gets into the ridiculous then leave. You'll find though that the ridiculous is mainly reserved for the odd nightclub and live music events. They are more easily avoided anyway. Theres just really no need to go over the top worrying about your ears all the time.

I was not specifically referring to your comment but all the above comments saying yeah go clubbing, just take some good earplugs and it will be fine! This really is a nonsense. It's like saying to someone who lost his leg and tell this person, you can ruuuuuun! Yes you can!

I was saying this because the subject of this post was: can I go to bars and clubs? That's why I was pointing clubs and bars/pubs.

Of course, you need to go on with your life. We know that T has also a strong psychological component, the less you're stressed, the less you give it a s?%*.

Except for people who have H, you can still enjoy normal stuff. Just be careful with some loud noise: bring always your earplugs/muffs with you and be ready to wear them.The majority of noise induced T are not caused by normal stuffs but by loud music in clubs and bars, and compressed music listened through earbuds (and also impulsive noise/ loud work tools).

I wish I have none of them : T&H. But life with mild/moderate T is largely acceptable without H. But don't forget, once you have T, your ears will always be sensitive.

My lil bro told me he has T (a very mild case). I warn him from listening music through these f*%&?ng earbuds and to avoid clubs. He's 21 : I want him to have a beautiful life, to go on with his studies, to go get a good job, have fun with his friends, travelling etc... and not his life wasted by ears issues. And thank God, he hates clubs. I don't care if it's cool to go clubbing, it sucks. And I wish I didn't go as many time as I did, because it has done nothing in my life just wasted my time... and my health.

I am not here to preach a way of life to people: once again, people are free to do whatever what they want to do with their ears. End of the debate for me.

 

[Elgringo32]

..this is the latest paper which combines all we know about T..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895692/

Hi hopeful,
Could you make a summary of the document ?

 

[bill 112]

And then there's me,someone who went by the"it's ok!Live your life"mantra.

Well it didn't turn out too good for me that I can tell you,got super mild T in January of 2011 and within a year it got waaaay better,I'm talking a 0.2 out of ten.Then in February 2012 I went to a loud club kind of place and wore earplugs,admittedly they fell out and were a nightmare to wear but I was wearing them correctly.Needless to say the next day I woke up with really loud tonal T and what I think was mild H at the time.I gave it a few months and my T dropped down to like a 0.9 out of 10 so extremely mild.I decided there and then no more noise for me,I sold my sports car and bought a quite BMW and began avoiding all noisy environments.I went to see a specialist and had my hearing tested whilst I was there and according to her yet again zero hearing loss was detected.This boosted my confidence at the time and I started doing the things I loved once again.I sold my BMW and bought a JDM Honda Civic and began building it up into a monster.Now the Honda could be noisy at times but over all I always kept the volume down,I would experiment with different exhaust pipes and I judged by ear,if it's too loud then no and that's it.I would even look at buying other cars and if they were too loud on the test drive they weren't being bought end of discussion.It was the same with going to socialise,if I was heading down the pub I wouldn't wear earplugs,I judged by ear and if it was too loud then I excused myself no exceptions.There were many times where I would walk into the pub and leave after half an hour as it just wasn't worth the risk to me.Two years later my fear was realised,I went to my mates 21st and walked inside,it was insanely loud inside so I began planning my exit but people I hadn't seen in a long time were stopping me trying to chat and catch up on things.I started getting extremely anxious and when I did finally reach the door it was locked?Unknownst to me a surprise stripper had been organised and I was locked inside the building!I had to sit at the back of the room and when it was over I rushed out and went home immediately!I had a Temporary Threshold Shift and I began fearing the worse!Next day I woke up fine no T increase or anything!But in the coming weeks that changed and my T went insanely loud and distorted.Two days later the fateful noise happened and that was my new level T and now H was here to stay!Two more years of avoiding all loud noise and my H was 85% better and my T was now maybe a 1-3 out of Ten depending on the day.Then suddenly my father died in October in 2015.This had a profound impact on me and again I decided that I need to live a life again,I started getting out more and socialising again.I started following my passion for cars yet again and began attending shows across the country.If the noise levels were high I wore good quality earplugs and if it was moderate I didn't as per instructed.Needless to say all this noise got me and in January of this year my condition worsened yet again and this time it was much worse than ever!Two months of being in noisier environments and sound insults was enough to leave me with severe H and moderate T.

The moral of the story is this,it's not worth the risk in any circumstances,if I hadn't of done the things I was told was safe to do I wouldn't be where I am today.Thats my personal experience so take what you may from it.

I'm not lying either,below is pictures confirming things I mentioned in the above post

1)This was the club like incident,note the earplugs(good quality at that)

2)The BMW I bought after.

3)The Honda I bought and done up after I began following my passion again,I don't blame cars for my worsening but more so loud environments.

4)Me going to see a few mates in a pub,I stayed a little while and then left as I judged it to be too loud.I done this on a regular basis.

 

[racerfish]

This has been an interesting thread to read through. Of course, everyone's situation and tolerance levels are different, but for me I no longer take the risks I used to. I've often been in situations where friends have wanted to go to a bar or club, and I thought to myself that my ears could handle it. At first, my ears could handle it. My T would spike temporarily, I'd regret it for a while, and then it'd go away. I did what @bill 112 did and often tried to see how far I could push the envelope. I understand now though that ear damage is cumulative, and there's no way currently to reverse any noise-induced damage. My ears need to last me several more decades, and I can't afford to take chances anymore, especially now that my ears have worsened from antibiotics.

So, for me clubs and concerts are absolutely out of the question along with anywhere else I know the sound will be above 90db for a sustained period of time. I won't go to a bar if I know there will be live music. I went to a show in NYC recently thinking my ears would be fine with ear plugs. I was wrong. The T spiked and did die down eventually, but I know there could be a time where the T spike won't go away because the ear damage has past the point of no return. You only have one set of ears and a finite number of ear hair cells that will not regenerate once they're gone. To me the risk is no longer worth it.

 

[racerfish]

This is the worst advice I've ever read here, sorry.

Someone with already damaged ears never knows what will happen in such places, ear plugs in or not. All we know is that loud noise/music is never a good thing for our ears.

I would also agree that this isn't good advice. If you're in a loud club or concert, even with earplugs the noise levels can cause ear damage. While you may dodge a bullet the first few times, the ear damage can catch up to you. Once that happens, there's no going back.

 

[racerfish]

Why?
Do you have any link to a study or something proving that the ears of someone having already experienced an acoustic trauma are more likely to be damaged by these dBs? That would sincerely interest me.

One thing that we do know is that ear damage is cumulative. If your ears are already damaged, further loud noise exposure will just make them worse. For example, let's say someone with perfectly healthy ears goes to a concert where the sound level is 120 db they might go home afterward and have stuffy ears for a couple of days. Someone with already compromised ears with T going to the same concert will sustain even further damage and will probably have a worsening of their T.