All Things Are Possible to Him Who Believes.

[Danny Boy]

There's no point in unwashing the brainwashed. They will always brainwashed.

 

[RichL]

Hey Chelles, Thanks for coming to my defense. You have proved to
be a loyal friend.

What?

My God man, I wasn't attacking you!

However you are basing your opinion on your own understanding.

I am basing my opinion on knowledge, not my own understanding at all!

It has been okay interacting with you but I don't expect we are going to see eye
to eye on many of these important issues we have been discussing.

Yes It has been interesting to say the least!

 

[Joe P. Tamborra]

If I ever get to New Zealand I'll look you up. I think we have things
in common that could help one another, such as we both suffer from
the same affliction, and it seems like in our own ways we both want
to help others. Have a good day Rich.

 

[DavetheAce]

Rich, I feel bad that you only see a narrow minded view of an infinite God. It is true that God is the Judge of the Universe, and those that practice sin will experience His wrath; however God cares so deeply for His creation that the Son of God paid our sin debt in full with His own shed blood. To
me a love like that is highly inspiring, regardless of some isolated negative accounts in the bible of
those getting punished for their own sinfulness. If God allowed sin to take over, the world would not be a safe place for any.

I don't have any problem with people having faith, although I fail to understand why they believe they have the right to express their views on the wider public. Are you suggesting that we have tinnitus because we don't have faith or are otherwise 'bad' people? Are you suggesting that the genocide of 6 million Jews in WWII was because they all 'practiced sin'? Are you suggesting that the 3000+ people who died on 9/11 all 'practiced sin'. And are you suggesting that the Christians now being slaughtered in the middle East all don't have enough faith? Do you not see that this is the failure in your argument or do you fall back on the old chestnut, 'God has mysterious ways'? There have been countless examples of genocide in history where 90%+ of an ethnic group has been killed. Whether or not they had faith or were Christians, I do not accept that they were all bad people. IF it is true that "God is the Judge of the Universe", then he isn't doing a very good job at weighing the scales of justice is he?

 

[Joe P. Tamborra]

hey Dave, How do you define GOOD person????And I do believe many people bring much
hardship upon themselves by the way they live. The bible does speak of those who obey God
as being blessed, and those that disobey as bringing down a curse upon themselves. I didn't
make the rules, I just try to live by them.

 

[linearb]

I don't have any problem with people having faith, although I fail to understand why they believe they have the right to express their views on the wider public.

So, you have the right to do this, and believers do not? That makes a lot of sense.

IF it is true that "God is the Judge of the Universe", then he isn't doing a very good job at weighing the scales of justice is he?

Dude, and I say this as as a non-believer, I don't think you know very much about the religion you're criticizing. As far as I know, none of the Abrahamic make any promises that bad things won't happen to you if you're devout, they are far more concerned with documenting the ways that you'll be punished if you're not. Christianity sort of explains this way with the promise of an eternal reward for surrendering your sins to Christ, but the earlier religions that Christianity subsumed do not do that.

Joe has said a bunch of things here, many of which I do not personally agree with, but you're laying on him with all your frustration about religion in general and every bad thing that's ever happened in history. Don't you think that's a little extreme? I mean, if there's someplace in this thread where he (or anyone!) said "Hitler mas butchered minorities because one and only God was punishing them for their sins" and I just overlooked it, then carry on, but I'm pretty sure you're the first person who brought up the holocaust.

Can you go back and re-read the post that started off this whole shitfest, the first post in this thread? I read it and sort of thought "huh, here's someone who has religious beliefs and ideas about reality that I don't necessarily agree with, but it at least sounds like their faith is a source of strength for them in their time of need, and they are trying to share that." I wasn't born yesterday (or again har-har), and so I understand that huge sects of modern Christianity in the US have evangelism baked into them at a fundamental level, and therefore posts like this always carry a little bit of the "bring the light of the Lord to all the heathen non-believers" too them. Sure. So what? Pretty much every forum post on every internet site ever is someone trying to convince someone else of something, and my post here is no exception!

You might think that Joe's belief that faith in God might cure his affliction is silly. That's okay! He did post this publicly, and it should be totally cool to say "hey man, I think you're a little out to lunch". But, that's not really what happened -- people have just absolutely dogpiled on here, accused him of a ton of stuff that he outright did not say, and basically tried to hold him accountable for everything that they think religion has ever done. Isn't that a little... unfair? Especially since part of his first post was:

Now tapping into that power is the key to being cured, or receiving the necessary grace to
endure this life with tinnitus.

Think about that. Like I said, I do not share Joe's religious views, but here's a very, very similar statement that I can honestly make:

I have come to believe that meditation may be a fundamental necessity in how I live a successful and rich life with tinnitus, and I am also convinced that it might have some impact on the progression and course of the tinnitus itself.

Now, if you challenged me on this, I would quickly cite some research about the parts of the brain known to be involved in tinnitus, and other research showing long-term structural and functional changes to those brain parts as a result of long-term contemplative practices. Joe wouldn't be able to do that, his proof would be modern translations of things which were originally written down in dead languages thousands of years ago. But, isn't it the case that Joe and I both have beliefs, which we have some amount of faith in, which we draw strength and hope from? I think so, and on top of that, I know that Joe and I both have tinnitus! So, we have the same problem, and despite having very different lives and different beliefs, I can find a lot of things in common with the way we're reacting to it.

We all have a problem we share: we have tinnitus that's significant enough that we spend part of our time on an internet forum full of other people with the same problem. In my day to day routine, if someone throws heavily religious material at me, I might well give them an earful... but this isn't my day to day life. It's a board, full of people suffering, in some cases terribly, from the same problem. No one else understands our suffering as we do. Why can't we just leave the angry theological arguments based on fundamentally different views of the universe at the curb?

Finding a Christian who wants to pick a fight about God is like shooting fish in a barrel. If you just want to butt heads with people who say insane things, why start with someone who's basic message is "I have the same problem you do, and my belief in God helps me"? Like, if I was going to go just absolutely rail on people who I don't agree with for evidence-based reasons, I think a much better starting point would be people who think the earth is flat or think the moon landing was faked.

 

[linearb]

Second thought, screw it. I can't believe that some of the posts here have put me in the position of defending Christian religious and political beliefs on the internet. My science-teaching mother would be absolutely mortified. Shame on you!

 

[RichL]

@linearb , Man you make it very difficult to disagree with you, but after careful consideration, I did find something that I felt I had to defend myself over even if you may not be directing it at me!

people have just absolutely dogpiled on here, accused him of a ton of stuff that he outright did not say, and basically tried to hold him accountable for everything that they think religion has ever done. Isn't that a little... unfair? Especially since part of his first post was:

I agree with your way of thinking @linearb, But do we really want a forum where there is no debate through fear of upsetting a few with disagreements?

My only problem with @Joe P. Tamborra 's OP, was the pretext that the bible has inspirational words for us to live by and that somehow we should be finding solace in it's content, I disagreed and quoted the bible to show why I do not get anything inspirational from it!


It is a real pity that a few members on this forum get upset and defensive when someone starts a debate or responds to said members post in an argumentative kind of way. I for one love a theology debate and will jump in whenever one comes up, what I can't understand is certain members taking offence to someones opinion instead of seeing it for what it is, a simple debate where different opinions should be appreciated and respected!

I know from this quote here that @Joe P. Tamborra took my post to mean I was attacking him...

Hey Chelles, Thanks for coming to my defense. You have proved to
be a loyal friend.

Which I replied with....

What?

My God man, I wasn't attacking you!

I can assure you @Joe P. Tamborra , I argue with the utmost respect to you as a person!

 

[Joe P. Tamborra]

Thanks Rich, its all good. I am not offended with your comments. I am glad
you took the time to critique what I said, as I took the time to read your reviews.
I understand that there are a lot of differing views in the world, and a lot of bad
things have been done in the name of religion. Myself, if a nominal Christian had
been the one who confronted me with the gospel message, I'm sure it would have
had no impact on my life. Maybe someday I will write a thread on the condition of
my life the first 29 years before I gave my heart to Jesus Christ. I truly was a mess.

 

[linearb]

I agree with your way of thinking @linearb, But do we really want a forum where there is no debate through fear of upsetting a few with disagreements?

No, I would not go so far as to say that, for sure. I just wish people could disagree about contentions issues without totally losing perspective. To be clear, I'm not accusing you of that, I thought your posts here were respectful.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

I don't know if that would be fair though to make them
pay so much.

It's been a while since I seriously looked into domestic politics of the USA (due to all my tinnitus related matters), but I believe he - President Obama - is just planning to increase the tax on the capital gain for couples making more than $500,000 / year. So it is not an income tax proposal, but a capital gains proposal whereby the tax rate of a capital gain is increased to 28% (as I understand it). So if a household holds no assets (stocks, real estate, bonds), there would be no increase in the taxation impact felt by the citizen/household. Furthermore, I believe CGT is only imposed upon sale of the asset, and hence, as long as the household holds onto their asset(s), they will experience no additional tax (but I could be wrong on this point).

There may be other initiatives in the pipeline that I am unaware of, however. But the above is by no means excessive (or "hardship").

To me it would make more sense for the government to stop immediately with all its foolish overspending.

See this: www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/us-budget-deficit.9338/#post-110321

Also see the government expenditure breakdown for 2012 (as an example):

Which piece of the pie would you reduce? It is always easy to say reduce 'this and that', but how would you actually do it - everything is essential to the functioning of a society. If I were to attempt to address the problem of overspending, I would choose to look into the "Social Security" group. Why? Because this - from a financial point of view - represents inefficient spending (i.e. spending money on an individual who potentially could be part of the workforce and contributing to the economy - something I hinted at earlier in another post). I would also take note of the "Interest on the Debt" category representing 7% of the total government expenditure. This is also highly inefficient - essentially money 'flushed down the drain' (something I also mentioned earlier on in another post). I would not touch "Defense Spending" as a large part of that sum is made up of employee salaries (and hence contributes to the GDP in a positive way - so-called "multiplier effect").

Also with this debt so high as you said the government will have no choice but to raise taxes further, causing the American people more hardship.

High tax rates is not hardship. Hardship is someone losing their job and not being able to find a new one due to a slow-down in the economy; hardship is losing all your investments due to bankruptcy of company; hardship is filing for foreclosure. But a bit of taxation never killed anyone (especially not the >$500k / year earners!).

People - that is citizens - need to fall in line when the commander-in-chief speaks. Obama did not suggest these measures because he thought it was 'funny' or popular. He did it because it is necessary and because the alternatives are even worse. It is not a debate, although many citizens (and politicians) seem to think so.

...this country in a very vulnerable financial crisis.

Pedantically speaking, this is not a financial crisis. It is an economic crisis. An economic crisis becomes a reality when a crisis in the financial markets has lingered on for long enough to be felt using observations of macroeconomic indicators such as two consecutive quarters with negative growth (= recession definition), job losses month after month, consumer confidence index, inflation rate, etc.

attheedgeofscience
30/APR/2015.

 

[Sjoerd]

Rich, All I can tell you is that when God comes into someones life
they change. All this other stuff does not mean a whole lot. Mankind
has lost there way for the most part, and they need to change, the biblical
term for this is REPENTANCE.

A while back an Elf entered my life...I had day long chats with this beautiful creature.....somehow I ended up in a mental institution...how fucked is that. I should have told people it was the lord jesus christ (it was a elf, but I should have lied about it). Instead of being thrown in an institution I would have become to pope.

 

[cullenbohannon]

It's been a while since I seriously looked into domestic politics of the USA (due to all my tinnitus related matters), but I believe he - President Obama - is just planning to increase the tax on the capital gain for couples making more than $500,000 / year. So it is not an income tax proposal, but a capital gains proposal whereby the tax rate of a capital gain is increased to 28% (as I understand it).

Yeah, ive read a few articles about it and the sounds about right, but I think the income generated from the taxes are meant to pay for tax cuts to the middle class and some other programs, which i cant recall. So im not sure what the overall affect would be on the deficit. Also Obama may have a tough time getting this passed.

I would choose to look into the "Social Security" group.

Your logic makes sense, but i think that would be a very tough sell in the US. Social security and healthcare should be examined more closely. Do you think thats something that is possible to get under some degree of control? The population will get bigger and bigger, which seems to indicate that both SS and healthcare cost's will continue to grow.

It is not a debate, although many citizens (and politicians) seem to think so.

Unfortunately when lawyers make up such a high percentage of the government everything is always a debate. I wonder if the governments in Europe have idealogical differences and vitriol we experience in the states, and if so, how they get anything accomplished? It seems like in the States were just interested in proving the other side wrong, which is what lawyers try to do, instead of examining the facts and letting that guide them to a conclusion.
I wish there were more diversity in the US government in terms of there backgrounds. We barley see Doctors, some times we have businessmen, very few economists, and no scientists from any field that i know of although there might be some.

 

[Joe P. Tamborra]

I woke up this morning with my tinnitus loud again. For the last three plus years I have experienced many afflicting days like this. With my tinnitus being intermittent I have habituated to the point that the days it is quieter it does not bother me at all, thank God. When I first got diagnosed with tinnitus the ENT told me there was nothing that could be done. About ten months later I found out I had an acoustic neuroma tumor originating from my auditory nerve within my head. Far before tinnitus ever came into my life I've utilized the immeasurable power that can be derived from prayer to the one true God. Prayer helped me keep my sanity while learning to adjust to the unwanted noise within my head. Prayer helped me from having a nervous breakdown when I found out from a Neurologist that the only wise option for me was surgical removal of the tumor. Prayer helped me go on when I researched the post operative complications that many experience following the surgery, such as meningitis, paralysis, blood clots, Bell's palsy, CSF leaks, facial nerve disorders, and even death. Prayer helped me keep hope alive when I realized it could be a long recovery time if I survived, and I was the only supporting income for a family of four. Prayer helped me to access an answer from heaven assuring me that I would survive the operation. Prayer helped me endure the 7.5 hour delicate surgery as they cut my head open and opened my skull. And prayer helped the surgeons hands to stay steady and successfully remove all of the tumor, even though it was close to my facial nerve and starting to touch my brain. Prayer helped me to go on when one of the surgeons told me going in to the surgery, I would lose the hearing in that ear, and have tinnitus the rest of my life. The power derived from prayer helped me go on following the surgery when I experienced some Bell's palsy on the right side of my face for a few weeks. Prayer helped me experience a miraculous recovery and get back to work somewhat in about four or five weeks. The power derived from many people praying for me allowed me to hear the words from the mouth of the Head of Neurology at Yale New Haven Hospital, say, "You set a new standard it doesn't get any better than this." These kind words came from the lips of a brain surgeon who had been doing surgeries for probably over 30 years, and probably participated in more than 1000 surgeries. I tell you sincerely all my suffering friends, that God in heaven still answers prayer, and prayer unleashes the power to heal and receive a miraculous touch. We have a condition that medical science has no cure, but their is a God in heaven that not only formed our ears in our mother's womb but also has the power to fix any and all disorders. All things are possible to those who believe. God is able to do exceedingly and abundantly above all that we can ask or think. Nothing is to hard for God. I am just giving you a short testimony of one way God answered prayer in my life, but if time permitted I could look back and write a book of the many times He answered prayer for me. And I'm sure that many others could do the same. We can read countless accounts in the bible of a prayer answering God. And we can see in the book of Acts 2, that prayer brings down power from on high. I personally believe that if all people that are part of this Forum would pray and believe, that there would be those that would be healed and delivered in the days ahead.

 

[Steve10608]

Thanks for your encouraging testimony. I also believe in the power of prayer. When I first developed T I fell into a deep depression. The anxiety, panic, and depression was overwhelming. I felt as if it was more than I could handle. I felt as though there was a spiritual battle going on. I remember in my darkest times the only words that would come to mind were "Jesus fight for me". I knew that I didn't have the strength to fight this. It was just to strong. The battle was taking place in my mind. I believe that it was God that brought me through those darkest times. I know that everyone will not share my views on this and I respect that. I believe that this will help some especially those in the early stages of T. It was a very lonely place for me. I can honestly say that some very positive this have occurred in my life since I developed T. I will share those things at later time. I have asked God to remove T completely from my life and for whatever reason He has not done that. He has given me the strength and courage to live with it a day at a time. Not all days are easy some are still difficult. I will praise Him if He removes it completely. If He doesn't I will praise Him anyway for giving me the ability to go on with life. When things seems like they are to much to handle go to Him for help. He was there for me. Hang in there...................this to will pass.

 

[Shadgirl]

To the people who DON'T believe, I agree with Chelles! Stop coming hear and bringing others DOWN. I don't care how nanny "facts" you have! Keep em to yourselves! We sufferers need SOMETHING to believe in and just cause you don't, don't give you the right to be on hear boasting your "facts" at us desperate and HOPEFUL people! We read this stuff to gain hope not get angry at the crap you guys post! This threads about HOPE and PIECE! Don't ruin it!

 

[Shadgirl]

Besides, they FOUND some stuff that proves YOU wrong!





That's "facts" too. Dose it mean I have to share them with non believers? Not really. That would be putting MY nose where it didn't belong. That's a surefire way to start fights and upset people so I wouldn't do it. That's why I posted them on a place where BELIEVERS should be! Quit bringing us down and leave Joe alone already! I cant stand bullies and critics posting where they DON'T belong is bulling in my book!

 

[Street Spirit]

Whatever keeps y'all going, hold on to it tightly. .no need for judgement or debates

 

[Sjoerd]

To the people who DON'T believe, I agree with Chelles! Stop coming hear and bringing others DOWN. I don't care how nanny "facts" you have! Keep em to yourselves! We sufferers need SOMETHING to believe in and just cause you don't, don't give you the right to be on hear boasting your "facts" at us desperate and HOPEFUL people! We read this stuff to gain hope not get angry at the crap you guys post! This threads about HOPE and PIECE! Don't ruin it!

The entire first post is just a snakeoil salesman's talk....just talks about how you can be cured if you believe and just start praying. The entire purpose of that post is to get non believers to believe....and you expect "us non believers" to not speak our mind about this....?!

stop using tinnitus to gain some souls.....!

 

[Shadgirl]

I'd rather stop BULLING! Stop bulling others because you DON'T believe! I HATE bullies and have sense I FIRST was bullied in the 4th grade. I STILL get bullied till this day! There no way I'm letting bullies hurt others with crap like YOU just posted! Get out of hear and leave Joe alone! Or so help me I'll report your RUDENESS to a mangier! I'm not letting bullies bring others down! I read the rules! Calling someone "snakeoil" is SLANDERING the and its AGENTS the rules of this form!

 

[Shadgirl]

Don't believe? Get the heck out of hear! No ones FORCING you to be MEAN!

 

[Shadgirl]

This post is for BELEVERS! Not my falt hate filled non belevers feel the need to trash it!

 

[eldudebro]

And this thread is the perfect example of why I believe there should be no place for religious discussion on this board. It's always going to descend into bickering.

 

[Shadgirl]

Not if non believers had enough sense to MIND THERE OWN BISSNESS. They're just bullies and I hate them!

 

[Shadgirl]

A general rule of thumb on some web sights is: Don't like, don't read. Why cant that apply to HEAR?

 

[eldudebro]

This is a tinnitus support board, not a board to discuss theology.

I have no issue with people with faith who use it to draw the strength they need to deal with this condition. I had enough misery in the early days when trying to overcome it myself and latched onto anything that would comfort me.

However, this is a board with membership worldwide. There will be members of all faiths on here, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Bhuddists, Sikhs...you name it. One persons God will completely differ from someone else interpretation.

Religion can be a very divisive issue as we all know, and on a board such as this a post on religion is bound to cause some heated debate. I'm sure Joe's heart is in the right place, however I think this isn't the right place to preach any particular brand of religion. By doing so only opens a massive can of worms and it's only going to cause animosity, which it has several times now.....

 

[Shadgirl]

That's exactly right. This is a SUPPORT sight. And this thread was made to be SUPPORT to others who have the same views as the writer. To me this looks like it should have been a POSITIVITY THREAD for BELIEVERS to find HOPE. A near SUCCESS STORY for those who BELIEVE. A non believer coming on hear and boasting there religious ridicules is really no different then going into someones susses story and writing something like "Great to know your feeling better. That will never help me though because hibituwations not real. You've just fooled yourself into thinking your used to it. It'll get worse again when you wake up." Now if that's considered wrong and can RUIN a persons success, then why is it right to debate a riligen in a similar manner? That's why I say, if you don't believe, go somewhere else. Us sufferers who believe need a peaceful possitivity thread to raise our spirits. A debate belongs on a debate sight.

 

[Shadgirl]

If you wouldn't mistreat a success story, don't mistreat an uplifting thread. It has the same effect on a believer, that a success story would have on you.

 

[astronomer]

wow,
huge subject,as an astronomer i feel we should be careful with preaching for i have very well known many very religious people who were the biggest hypocrites i ever met,after they leave church they bad mouth the neighbours,they are negative, they are self centered,etc, lots of times that is true,and i have seen it,it is great to have a belief but we are truely in the dark about this,i tend to sit on the fence and wish to believe i can live again in some way , however, as humans we can only ponder thoughts,it is easy for one to put in their mind that god is a white bearded man,some times as humans we can think we know everything but in reality we know absolutely nothing,as humans we are simply not intelligent enough to contemplate our outcome,we can imagine, we can have faith,but as homosapiens we just do not have any great wisdom, look around the world and see that we are not an intelligent species,everyone has a different belief and that has simply brought war among us, our ignorance has put this world in grave danger, everyone has a different god in their eyes,so obviously we dont know much about the subject,but in hindsight be ware that this world will get alot more dangerous to live in as others think that fighting for their religious beliefs is worth killing as many humans as possible,please dont take me wrong ,this is not about anyone in particular,we should just try to stay positive and be a happy camper !

 

[RichL]

Not if non believers had enough sense to MIND THERE OWN BISSNESS. They're just bullies and I hate them!

That's very Christian of you!