Amazing News for Everyone! Perceived Tinnitus Loudness Is Always Related to Emotional Perception

[brownbear]

My understanding from talking to tinnitus experts is that we will probably be moving away from talking about dB and more about measuring tinnitus in Sones. Which seems much more sensible. It wasn't me by the way, I'm really only the 2nd best ENT in the world if I'm honest.

 

[Bam]

@Adamwynn can you please share the doctor's name.

Perhaps we can invite him on here for a Q&A. If he's confident of his facts then as @Nanny chocolate says let him lead us all to this promised land.

 

[glynis]

So, I've just come from Harley Street in London, having just had an appointment with the UK's and probably the world's leading ENT Doctor.

And he told me that tinnitus volume as long as there is no current infection is always at 20 dB and the perceived loudness is always related to emotional perception and stress towards it.

And given the right frame of mind everyone can habituate/return to silence/near silence.

What a load of c**p only fit for the toilet !!!
He needs to get his head out of his ass and come on here.

love glynis

 

[Nanny chocolate]

Oh Glynis, I'm shocked!!!!!! Lol xx
@glynis

 

[glynis]

@Nanny chocolate,
haha sorry for removing my halo for a minute...

love glynis

 

[Bam]

My understanding from talking to tinnitus experts is that we will probably be moving away from talking about dB and more about measuring tinnitus in Sones. Which seems much more sensible. It wasn't me by the way, I'm really only the 2nd best ENT in the world if I'm honest.

Disagree. You have tinnitus that was bad enough to consider death as an alternative. This makes you the best ENT in the world bar none. Also the BTA needs someone like you at the helm.

 

[Alex Matyjasek]

Amazing! 20 dB? Serious brain washing here... I find it sad, a tinnitus sufferer, like yourself, can even contemplate this shit is true. Probably the biggest ENT thief on the planet, that's for sure. I wonder how much you spent? What a waist of money, you certainly made somebody very happy listening to bulls... Fairytails.

 

[Ecip]

So, I've just come from Harley Street in London, having just had an appointment with the UK's and probably the world's leading ENT Doctor.

And he told me that tinnitus volume as long as there is no current infection is always at 20 dB and the perceived loudness is always related to emotional perception and stress towards it.

And given the right frame of mind everyone can habituate/return to silence/near silence.

That is completely wrong... my tinnitus will vary in loudness depending on surround noise levels, etc etc. It is NOT always the same, and definitely not ever at 20dB. If it really was that low, simply me listening to my own breath would mask it. Clearly, it doesn't. Your ENT is completely wrong.

That's like saying "hey guys, good news, getting your leg severed by a bear doesn't actually hurt any more then getting a paper cut. It's only your emotional perception and stress towards it."
Utter nonsense.

 

[Bam]

@Adamwynn can you please share the doctor's name.

 

[Bam]

 

[Bam]

 

[Natester1986]

There's no way that tinnitus loudness is solely linked to emotional perception. The loudness depends on how much damage there is in the middle/inner ear. For example, if you have major damage to your inner ear, then your tinnitus is likely going to be really loud (8 or higher).

The same is true with middle ear damage, although middle ear damage is usually temporary. Inner ear damage, on the other hand, is permanent since the hair cells do not grow back.

 

[Red]

This is not the first time I've heard the db volume is actually pretty low. But it seems that it could be one of those useless facts. If you could physically pick up any sound and put it in your ear, it is going to sound significantly louder. If I were to pluck mine out of my head, I'm sure it would be comparable to the whizzing of a PS4.

I don't see any point in measuring the tinnitus itself; measuring by comparing environmental noise sounds more useful. The sounds are in our brain so they'll always sound louder. Saying it's actually 20db is very dismissive and ultimately pointless.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

It's not easy to habituate with severe tinnitus and if there's physical causes it could be more difficult.

Knowing all the causes with consideration to lifetime medical history and events isn't always considered. I've shared PM and public conversation treatment discussions with many that have physical tinnitus. Some have seen improvement and others not. With physical tinnitus, a lot of time and determination is needed, especially then there's injuries.

If his doctor said "you are going to have to live it" then we would still be calling for the doctor's license. But it's not fair for any doctor per tinnitus to make a blanket statement:

given the right frame of mind everyone can habituate/return to silence/near silence

There's a big difference between mild and moderate tinnitus and a huge difference when it's severe. I have never seen much individual success with mind over body when one has permanent pain of 7 or more.

 

[Ed209]

This thread is hilarious.

On a serious note it does highlight how utterly meaningless the decibel scale is at measuring a sensory perception. I'm guessing this ENT was referring to the sensation level, to which, I believe the average recorded measurement for tinnitus sufferers is around 7dB SL. 20dB SL would be at the extreme catastrophic end of the spectrum, but even then, we're talking about measuring a perception. It's not exactly an accurate science.

I think he has vastly underestimated how bad tinnitus can be, and his choice of words is bound to wind some people right up, especially if they are hearing a jackhammer in their brain whilst he's saying it. I don't think anybody can ever truly understand how tinnitus can affect a person unless they have it themselves. And telling people it can be reduced to silence is scandalous. This may be true for some very lucky people, but he shouldn't be saying this to his patients like it's gospel and happens to everyone.

@brownbear, did your opinion about tinnitus change, in an objective way, after you got a severe case of it? Have you noticed you talk to your patients differently now as opposed to before you got it yourself, or are you genuinely the same? Just curious.

 

[Jazzer]

There's no way that tinnitus loudness is solely linked to emotional perception. The loudness depends on how much damage there is in the middle/inner ear. For example, if you have major damage to your inner ear, then your tinnitus is likely going to be really loud (8 or higher).

The same is true with middle ear damage, although middle ear damage is usually temporary. Inner ear damage, on the other hand, is permanent since the hair cells do not grow back.

Natester - when you refer to '8 or higher,' what does that mean?
Is it purely a subjective assessment of severity against a possible 10 ?

 

[Natester1986]

Natester - when you refer to '8 or higher,' what does that mean?
Is it purely a subjective assessment of severity against a possible 10 ?

By 8 or higher, I'm talking about tinnitus severity. The scale can be found here: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-loudness-scale.6873/

 

[Ed209]

Natester - when you refer to '8 or higher,' what does that mean?
Is it purely a subjective assessment of severity against a possible 10 ?

In the case of this ENT, I think an appropriate scale would be to kick him in the balls (assuming he's a guy) and to ask him how he would rate that. Once he's regained his composure you could say, "yea, well my tinnitus is worse".

 

[Jazzer]

Thank you @Natester1986.

So mine is a permanent 9, heard continuously over every sound.

If I vocal/hiss match it against a decibel meter, it registers approximately 55 / 60 dbs..

However, I do not have panic attacks.
Masking is an impossibility.
I sleep okay on just 1mg of melatonin.

I do 20 mins meditation in my warm bath every morning, when I hear my 'T' - but not actively listen to it - go into a breathing exercise, and usually put myself right out, and often unaware of my noise.

Obviously I do not 'like' my Tinnitus, but somehow I manage to cope.

 

[PolishSoldier87]

Thread's title is a provocation, isn't it?

 

[JohnAdams]

Everyone needs to get off @Adamwynn
He was just told this and took it to heart. He is our friend and fellow sufferer. I thought I could regenerate my hair cells with curcumin which turned out to be wrong. We are all in this together man. Like seriously. I don't blame him at all for having hope in the bad advice of a so called authority figure. How many of you believe in evolution? Ha! That's way more retarded than what @Adamwynn has posted.

 

[PolishSoldier87]

How many of you believe in evolution?

Not me. If that existed, people would be adapted to hearing loss, and formed mechanisms of regeneration.

Fish had jumped ashore from a sea, and her legs grew. WTF.

 

[JohnAdams]

Not me. If that existed, people would be adapted to hearing loss, and formed mechanisms of regeneration.

Fish had jumped ashore from a sea, and her legs grew. WTF.

For me it's like how could a functioning cell pop out in the first iteration, complete with a nucleus containing the instructions to make that very cell? In a simplistic analogy it would be like a tornado going through a forest and building a house and contained within the house, the blueprints for the house, and the house had machinerary to replicate itself.

 

[glynis]

@Adamwynn,
We know it's only what he said and in no way are any replies personal to you, so please don't be put off posting on here and thank you for putting the post up.

love glynis

 

[Ed209]

@Adamwynn,
We know it's only what he said and in no way are any replies personal to you, so please don't be put off posting on here and thank you for putting the post up.

love glynis

Adam, that's the first time I've ever seen an asterisk appear in the middle of one of Glynis's words. That's how much of an impact your post made

 

[coffee_girl]

Not me. If that existed, people would be adapted to hearing loss, and formed mechanisms of regeneration.

Fish had jumped ashore from a sea, and her legs grew. WTF.

Huh? There is evidence of evolution being applied to creatures that were isolated on an island to themselves. The animals were discovered to be developing appendages and larger bodies to accommodate to their environment. This is proof that evolution exists but takes time to develop in any tangible way. Human bodies have not evolved quite as fast as technology, perhaps in a few hundred years our ears will catch up. We didn't have speakers pumping out 120 db of sound consistently a hundred years ago.

I'm agnostic but wow, evolution deserves a bit more credit

An article to the lizards I was discussing:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...n-island-darwin/?user.testname=photogallery:3

 

[PolishSoldier87]

Huh? There is evidence of evolution being applied to creatures that were isolated on an island to themselves. The animals were discovered to be developing appendages and larger bodies to accommodate to their environment. This is proof that evolution exists but takes time to develop in any tangible way. Human bodies have not evolved quite as fast as technology, perhaps in a few hundred years our ears will catch up. We didn't have speakers pumping out 120 db of sound consistently a hundred years ago.

Isolated animals have suddenly developed the mind and the ability to predict forthcoming environmental changes, and then they have rooted this thought through telepathy within their own species and passed it on to next generations, which forced their will to force their bodies to change in them.

I am a bit skeptical. I know that genes are very important, predispositions resulting from parents' organisms but there are limits.

 

[JohnAdams]

Huh? There is evidence of evolution being applied to creatures that were isolated on an island to themselves. The animals were discovered to be developing appendages and larger bodies to accommodate to their environment. This is proof that evolution exists but takes time to develop in any tangible way. Human bodies have not evolved quite as fast as technology, perhaps in a few hundred years our ears will catch up. We didn't have speakers pumping out 120 db of sound consistently a hundred years ago.

I'm agnostic but wow, evolution deserves a bit more credit

An article to the lizards I was discussing:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...n-island-darwin/?user.testname=photogallery:3

Animals can certainly adapt and change. Look at dog breeds. But they are still dogs and can interbreed.

 

[emmalee]

Everyone needs to get off @Adamwynn
He was just told this and took it to heart. He is our friend and fellow sufferer. I thought I could regenerate my hair cells with curcumin which turned out to be wrong. We are all in this together man. Like seriously. I don't blame him at all for having hope in the bad advice of a so called authority figure. How many of you believe in evolution? Ha! That's way more retarded than what @Adamwynn has posted.

My thoughts exactly, JohnAdams.

@Adamwynn Please try not to take all of this to heart. I understand that you were hopeful and excited to share the information that you were given.

 

[marc 1974 london]

Phew! I was going to see him for 5 grand! I'm so happy right now I didn't...

I see the head of audiologists in Medway hospital, what a great knowledgeable person she is, I highly recommend her.