Antidepressants (SSRIs, SNRIs, MAOs, TCAs, TeCAs)

[Gb3]

Has anyone here had success with Lexapro to deal with the depression caused by tinnitus?

 

[Jonathan Tyler]

My tinnitus got much worse with Lexapro.

 

[Gb3]

My tinnitus got much worse with Lexapro.

Did you continue to take it? Did it go back to baseline when you stopped?

 

[bobvann]

I'm trying 5mg of Escitalopram SSRI, daily. Will see how it goes...

 

[TomBradyGOAT]

Trying Nardil, an MAOI. Ketamine troches did not give me tinnitus, 600mg of iv didn't either but that was for pain. Nasal spray did. I wish I had the money for 6 100mg infusions but I'm not rich. Nardil is not listed in the PDR for tinnitus but is on the ATA which looks like it gets its list from that scam artist that runs hearing loss help or whatever. Neil something. Nardil though is hard to get because of shortage and you can't mix with certain foods or you go into hypertensive crisis. The food I was willing to give up to try something new for my anxiety. Too many dumb psychiatrists who always want to stick to ssris or antipsychotic. I would personally rather have on my gravestone he mixed nardil with cheddar cheese then have tardive dyskinesia.

 

[Zugzug]

Does anyone have any success on Lithium? I have read a couple of anecdotal things, but would be interested if anyone knows more. I am trying to plan ahead for my next course of action if my immunosuppressant therapy fails.

 

[Lane]

Does anyone have any success on Lithium?

@Zugzug -- I've taken lithium for many years. In the beginning, I noticed it seemed to have a calming effect, but I think my body has gotten so used to it, I don't consciously notice anything these days. I continue to take it however, because of its apparent ability to "mop up" excessive glutamate, the excitatory neurotransmittor that can be very bad for people with tinnitus. I've also heard it has a remarkable ability to "detoxify the brain".

A good friend of mine suffered from clinical depression for many years, and finally decided to try to prescription lithium carbonate. The side effects were so bad, he had to quit taking it. When he tried 50 mcg of OTC lithium orotate, he said his depression lifted within an hourm and it felt like his brain came alive again. He's done well since making this discovery.

 

[Zugzug]

@Zugzug -- I've taken lithium for many years. In the beginning, I noticed it seemed to have a calming effect, but I think my body has gotten so used to it, I don't consciously notice anything these days. I continue to take it however, because of its apparent ability to "mop up" excessive glutamate, the excitatory neurotransmittor that can be very bad for people with tinnitus. I've also heard it has a remarkable ability to "detoxify the brain".

A good friend of mine suffered from clinical depression for many years, and finally decided to try to prescription lithium carbonate. The side effects were so bad, he had to quit taking it. When he tried 50 mcg of OTC lithium orotate, he said his depression lifted within an hourm and it felt like his brain came alive again. He's done well since making this discovery.

Interesting. I've tried Cymbalta, and that made things worse. I would be surprised if Lithium helps since it increases serotonin, which is implicated in tinnitus. If my problem ends up somehow not being autoimmune, I have to start exploring some creative angles.

 

[Zugzug]

Does anyone understand why Mirtazapine isn't known to increase tinnitus? I thought the main reason why anti-depressants aggravate tinnitus is because of serotonin activity in the DCN. Why would a tetracyclic anti-depressant be different from an SSRI? Thinking of trying Mirtazapine for sleep.

 

[T Toledo OH]

I am taking 150-200mg of Amitriptyline to sleep every night with no ill effects. I get a solid 8 hours but usually wake up at least one time from the tinnitus but typically can get back to sleep by taking an extra tab or melatonin. I am thinking about changing over to Mirtazapine as that seems to be more commonly prescribed for tinnitus as opposed to Amitriptyline. I am also on .5 to 1mg of Klonopin a day which works better than anything. I've been trying to taper but then I get a spike and back to square one.

 

[Lane]

Does anyone understand why Mirtazapine isn't known to increase tinnitus?

@Zugzug -- Lot of threads on this forum with Mirtazapine in the title. Some discuss how it caused or exacerbated tinnitus.

 

[all to gain]

I'm stilling cutting antidepressants out of my life. I'm now down form 60 of fluoxetine last June to 12.5 now. This last 12.5 will take a number of years to get rid of though. Who knows, maybe I will always have to keep on a very small dose? But a much smaller dose has got to be better than a big one, hopefully.

 

[Tanni]

Does anyone understand why Mirtazapine isn't known to increase tinnitus? I thought the main reason why anti-depressants aggravate tinnitus is because of serotonin activity in the DCN. Why would a tetracyclic anti-depressant be different from an SSRI? Thinking of trying Mirtazapine for sleep.

Mirtazapine worked great for me for sleep, and also for my mood. It didn't affect my Tinnitus either way -- didn't make it better or worse. Couple of negatives for me -- the weight gain!!! and the withdrawal was really tough.

 

[AnxiouslyWaiting]

I'm stilling cutting antidepressants out of my life. I'm now down form 60 of fluoxetine last June to 12.5 now. This last 12.5 will take a number of years to get rid of though. Who knows, maybe I will always have to keep on a very small dose? But a much smaller dose has got to be better than a big one, hopefully.

Hi @all to gain,

If you don't mind me asking, how long have you been on SSRIs for and what are your reasons for wanting to get off?

I've been on Citalopram for 8 or 9 years and I've been considering coming off. I've had tinnitus for 5 months so I don't know if I can blame the SSRI this long down the line.

Do you feel any different being on a lower dose?

 

[all to gain]

Hi @all to gain,

If you don't mind me asking, how long have you been on SSRIs for and what are your reasons for wanting to get off?

I've been on Citalopram for 8 or 9 years and I've been considering coming off. I've had tinnitus for 5 months so I don't know if I can blame the SSRI this long down the line.

Do you feel any different being on a lower dose?

I've been on Fluoxetine for 23 years or so, except for little gaps here and there and a very unsuccessful attempt to come off of it 2 years ago, which ended with me getting tinnitus among other things. My main reason for wanting to come off of it is that it has changed my personality, especially in regard to my moral values, and that I feel the longer I keep on it the more long-term damage I am doing to myself. After 23 years it's all a bit late in the day, I know, but I'm determined to get off of this crap. As well as being one cause of my tinnitus, SSRIs are known to make tinnitus worse, so there's another reason I want to come off.

Yes, I do feel a little different, ie more edgy. I am lowering at a very slow pace to allow my brain and nervous system to get used to the lower doses so I don't suffer from brain zaps etc. Although it seems like I am almost there, ie down to 12.5 mg, this is where things get more difficult, and I need to lower further in very smal doses of 0.5-1 mg. I will do this my using liquid Fluoxetine and will do it over the next 3 or so years. No rush.

I am putting in place as many other things as possible to help with the process. Now it is the end of the summer I will start using a special light one hour every morning to simulate sunlight, I will possibly add vitamin D3 to my diet, I am doing daily cardio exercise, I may add fish oil etc.

In the end, I am doing this for my own self worth. I've always been wary of drugs and rue the day i ever allowed myself to go onto antidepressants.

 

[Star64]

Does anyone understand why Mirtazapine isn't known to increase tinnitus? I thought the main reason why anti-depressants aggravate tinnitus is because of serotonin activity in the DCN. Why would a tetracyclic anti-depressant be different from an SSRI? Thinking of trying Mirtazapine for sleep.

Mirtazapine does have sedating effects for a vast majority of people and doctors will often prescribe it for this reason. Some people have put on in excess of 10 kilos in a four week period with this drug, it is well known for causing weight gain and is often ceased for this very reason alone.

I do not believe there is one class of antidepressant that is safer than an other especially when it comes to knowing if it will aggravate tinnitus or not. Many have had their tinnitus commence or exacerbated by their use.

Mirtazapine has also been known to cause side effects related with otorhinolaryngology, not everyone will experience these but it is important to know that it can still cause unpleasant side effects.

 

[Star64]

I've been on Fluoxetine for 23 years or so, except for little gaps here and there and a very unsuccessful attempt to come off of it 2 years ago, which ended with me getting tinnitus among other things. My main reason for wanting to come off of it is that it has changed my personality, especially in regard to my moral values, and that I feel the longer I keep on it the more long-term damage I am doing to myself. After 23 years it's all a bit late in the day, I know, but I'm determined to get off of this crap. As well as being one cause of my tinnitus, SSRIs are known to make tinnitus worse, so there's another reason I want to come off.

Yes, I do feel a little different, ie more edgy. I am lowering at a very slow pace to allow my brain and nervous system to get used to the lower doses so I don't suffer from brain zaps etc. Although it seems like I am almost there, ie down to 12.5 mg, this is where things get more difficult, and I need to lower further in very smal doses of 0.5-1 mg. I will do this my using liquid Fluoxetine and will do it over the next 3 or so years. No rush.

I am putting in place as many other things as possible to help with the process. Now it is the end of the summer I will start using a special light one hour every morning to simulate sunlight, I will possibly add vitamin D3 to my diet, I am doing daily cardio exercise, I may add fish oil etc.

In the end, I am doing this for my own self worth. I've always been wary of drugs and rue the day i ever allowed myself to go onto antidepressants.

Slow is the way to go, and it sounds like you have a good plan in place to aid the process. You have done remarkedly well to get down to 12.5mg, like you said there is no rush, slow and steady wins the race

 

[AnxiouslyWaiting]

I've been on Fluoxetine for 23 years or so, except for little gaps here and there and a very unsuccessful attempt to come off of it 2 years ago, which ended with me getting tinnitus among other things. My main reason for wanting to come off of it is that it has changed my personality, especially in regard to my moral values, and that I feel the longer I keep on it the more long-term damage I am doing to myself. After 23 years it's all a bit late in the day, I know, but I'm determined to get off of this crap. As well as being one cause of my tinnitus, SSRIs are known to make tinnitus worse, so there's another reason I want to come off.

Yes, I do feel a little different, ie more edgy. I am lowering at a very slow pace to allow my brain and nervous system to get used to the lower doses so I don't suffer from brain zaps etc. Although it seems like I am almost there, ie down to 12.5 mg, this is where things get more difficult, and I need to lower further in very smal doses of 0.5-1 mg. I will do this my using liquid Fluoxetine and will do it over the next 3 or so years. No rush.

I am putting in place as many other things as possible to help with the process. Now it is the end of the summer I will start using a special light one hour every morning to simulate sunlight, I will possibly add vitamin D3 to my diet, I am doing daily cardio exercise, I may add fish oil etc.

In the end, I am doing this for my own self worth. I've always been wary of drugs and rue the day i ever allowed myself to go onto antidepressants.

Thank you for the in depth response, I also rue the day I started them.

I've also read that tapering slowly is very important. How fast did you taper 2 years ago when it didn't work if you don't mind me asking?

Has this taper been comfortable for you and have you noticed any positive effects of the lower dose yet or do you just feel more on edge?

I started the SSRIs when I was 19 and still regret it but I didn't know any better. I'm sure I would have been fine with adding exercise and maybe some CBT instead of SSRIs.

I'm just hoping that now in my late 20s it hasn't ruined the rest of my life and I have time to come off. I've read so many horror stories of people trying to come off, I wonder if that's the case for everyone. It's quite terrifying reading some of those stories.

 

[all to gain]

Thank you for the in depth response, I also rue the day I started them.

I've also read that tapering slowly is very important. How fast did you taper 2 years ago when it didn't work if you don't mind me asking?

Has this taper been comfortable for you and have you noticed any positive effects of the lower dose yet or do you just feel more on edge?

I started the SSRIs when I was 19 and still regret it but I didn't know any better. I'm sure I would have been fine with adding exercise and maybe some CBT instead of SSRIs.

I'm just hoping that now in my late 20s it hasn't ruined the rest of my life and I have time to come off. I've read so many horror stories of people trying to come off, I wonder if that's the case for everyone. It's quite terrifying reading some of those stories.

I did it over 6 months and ended on 10 mg every other or every third day. This wasn't enough. I should have cut down to 0.5 mg, but instead I was still on roughly 5 mg per day. Fluoxetine stays in the system for months after the last dose, and having been on it for 20+years it would have been in every crack and crevice of my body.

I feel more positive in that it is now more me that is living than a false me through the drugs.

I agree, CBT and exercise. I was given these too, all at the same time with the drugs, but the CBT was very short-term.

You can get off of it. Read up on your particular drug and it's half life. Taper off very slowly, which means over at least 2 years in your case. Add in all the exercise and other things now to minimise the blow, if any, when you are completely off.

 

[Lane]

I do not believe there is one class of antidepressant that is safer than an other especially when it comes to knowing if it will aggravate tinnitus or not.

@Star64 -- A pretty simple formula I keep in mind is that whatever affects that brain is more than likely going to affect tinnitus. It seems that when it comes to drugs, it's usually the case tinnitus is caused and/or worsens over time.

I'm just hoping that now in my late 20s it hasn't ruined the rest of my life and I have time to come off.

I think your odds of success are actually quite high. So much is being learned these days about supporting the brain, often using novel new approaches. I would encourage you to follow the latest on just about everything pertaining to brain health, from nutritional support, being in nature, devices such as PEMF, etc. Also, avoid things that have the potential to make things worse, such as excessive EMFs from smart meters, wifi routers, etc. -- All the Best...

 

[Tanni]

[...] whatever affects that brain is more than likely going to affect tinnitus. It seems that when it comes to drugs, it's usually the case tinnitus is caused and/or worsens over time.

Can you back this statement up with some evidence please? How have you arrived at this conclusion?

 

[Lane]

Can you back this statement up with some evidence please? How have you arrived at this conclusion?

Hi @Tanni -- I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for. -- From my understanding, there are hundreds of drugs that are listed as potentially ototoxic. Many more don't have ototoxicity listed as a potential "side effect", but nonetheless have been reported by many to have caused tinnitus.

For instance, virtually all OTC cold and flu remedies are anticholinergic drugs. Even though this class of drugs is known to be able to cause tinnitus, I don't believe it's listed as a potential side effect on any of the labeling. I heard about one man who took just a single dose of Benadryl, and now has chronic tinnitus. -- My own devastating onset of tinnitus and hyperacusis was caused by a single dose of an "anti-nausea" medication called Promethazine. They said it could cause drowsiness, but negelected to tell me it could have the catastrophic "side effects" it caused.

I think even if drugs don't cause ototoxicity symptoms immediately, it seems clear to me that taking just about any drug for an extensive period of time increases the chances of it eventually causing tinnitus. I think it's similar to people taking various kinds of SSRIs and anti-anxiety meds for years, and all of a sudden their bodies can no longer tolerate it. Tinnitus may appear before withdrawal starts, but it may not appear until after withdrawal starts.

I've seen a number of reports of people getting tinnitus from just about every drug imaginable, from pharmaceutical to OTC, to illegal street drugs. It just seems that the human body can only take so much of these drugs before the brain and ears start paying the price. Some people might be affected on their very first dose, others may not be affected until many years down the road.

I don't know if this will answer your questions, but I've been observing what long-term drug use does to the ears, and I think it does similar things to the brain and nervous system. Many people who suffer terribly from ME/CFS had their symptoms begin after a period of drug use, including the use of antibiotics. I doubt there will be much scientific evidence to back up my own thinking, but I believe that's primarily because the medical profession doesn't want people to know how dangerous many of these drugs are.

 

[Tanni]

I doubt there will be much scientific evidence to back up my own thinking, but I believe that's primarily because the medical profession doesn't want people to know how dangerous many of these drugs are.

Thanks for the detailed, thoughtful response Lane -- much appreciated.

The above was what I was asking for. It was a pretty strong statement to say that any type of drug will usually cause or worsen Tinnitus, including I presume life saving medication necessary for any number of other conditions that people might have alongside Tinnitus. So I asked for evidence of this because it has some pretty far reaching consequences if anyone here is put off of said medication out of fear for their Tinnitus.

Respectfully, it sounds like it's an opinion that's not backed up scientifically but is a conclusion you have come to based on anecdotal reports. The problem with this for me is that it's so difficult to establish causation. If Tinnitus can worsen whilst you're taking the drugs, whilst withdrawing, or after taking them for years, how do we know it has anything to do with the medication at all? Also, it would have to be a substantial amount of reports per drug to establish a link.

I'm open to these types of ideas and have come off of all drugs myself for similar reasons, but I still get worried when something like the above is stated as established fact rather than a theory as it can put people off of seeking help that they might need. I hope you won't be offended, but that is my perspective.

 

[Lane]

I hope you won't be offended, but that is my perspective.

Hi again @Tanni -- Not offended at all, and thank you for you respectful reply. I guess we all come to our own conclusions in our own ways. Perhaps I should be a little more careful with my words when it comes to drugs, but I feel so frustrated when I see how much damage they do to so many unsuspecting people. Besides my strong reservations about ototoxic drugs and overprescribed SSRIs, I also have major problems with class of drugs called fluroquinolones, which are some of the worst culprits for being extremely dangerous, and in most cases, totally unnecessary.

I read a comment by someone on this board (maybe even on this thread), that they likely could have avoided taking an SSRI if their doctor had prescribed more exercise, a better diet, and I think something else. I'm just such a believer in making constructive lifestyle changes before resorting to drugs, which we never know how our bodies, ears, and brains are going to react to. -- I appreciate you mentioning how you've come off of various drugs for some similar reasons to my own. Thankfully, with all the information we have available to us at our fingertips these days, it's often the case where safer and even more effective solutions can be found. -- Best!

 

[all to gain]

Hi @Tanni I doubt there will be much scientific evidence to back up my own thinking, but I believe that's primarily because the medical profession doesn't want people to know how dangerous many of these drugs are.

I think the evidence is probably out there, but the medical profession and drug companies definitely don't want people knowing about it.

 

[peter91]

@Zugzug -- I've taken lithium for many years. In the beginning, I noticed it seemed to have a calming effect, but I think my body has gotten so used to it, I don't consciously notice anything these days. I continue to take it however, because of its apparent ability to "mop up" excessive glutamate, the excitatory neurotransmittor that can be very bad for people with tinnitus. I've also heard it has a remarkable ability to "detoxify the brain".

A good friend of mine suffered from clinical depression for many years, and finally decided to try to prescription lithium carbonate. The side effects were so bad, he had to quit taking it. When he tried 50 mcg of OTC lithium orotate, he said his depression lifted within an hourm and it felt like his brain came alive again. He's done well since making this discovery.

Could you please tell how much you take and which form, sir?

 

[Tanni]

I think the evidence is probably out there, but the medical profession and drug companies definitely don't want people knowing about it.

I'd still need to actually see the evidence rather than assume that it probably exists. Would be very interesting to read if anyone has any links from reputable sources. I can't believe the drug companies are able to silence all independent research into ADs...

 

[all to gain]

I'd still need to actually see the evidence rather than assume that it probably exists. Would be very interesting to read if anyone has any links from reputable sources. I can't believe the drug companies are able to silence all independent research into ADs...

Nah, it's out there. But I'm talking about the dangers of ADs in general and not in relation to tinnitus specifically. But there are numerous studies out there that suggest ADs affect tinnitus - https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319077#Serotonin-raises-neuronal-activity-in-the-DCN

You only have to look at how drugs like Prozac got to the market, i.e. covering up side effects and advertising it like it's a wonder drug. Here's an article worth looking at - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-hidden-harm-of-antidepressants/

Or are you specifically talking about how ADs may affect the brain? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4790407/

I've only quickly found those studies, but I'm sure you can find more precise studies if you want to.

 

[Star64]

I'd still need to actually see the evidence rather than assume that it probably exists. Would be very interesting to read if anyone has any links from reputable sources. I can't believe the drug companies are able to silence all independent research into ADs...

It's no secret that pharmaceutical companies influence the medication prescribed by doctors by giving them financial incentives, " BIG PHARMA" funds 90 per cent of research!

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...es-found-tainted-by-pharma-company-influence/

https://www.drugwatch.com/featured/clinical-trials-and-hidden-data/

https://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/21/medical-science-has-data-problem-284066.html

http://zofran.monheit.com/big-pharma-controls-clinical-drug-research/

 

[Lane]

Could you please tell how much you take and which form, sir?

Hi @peter91 -- I take one dose daily; here's the product I use:

NCI Advanced Research Dr. Hans Nieper Lithium Orotate Tablets 120 mg 200 tablets (pack of 2)