Are Foam Earplugs the Best Plugs for Concerts?

[Bill Bauer]

 

[Greg Clarke]

Give it time? I've tinnitus for 13 years. More than a lot of you here. Survived, still alive, still enjoying music, enjoying life.

 

[daiso]

try this: close yourself out in a room or in a car, listen to the stereo at normal volume, then put on your hear protection, you will be surprised at how well you can still hear the music. Imagine this at the concert.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Give it time? I've tinnitus for 13 years.

It is possible that had you made better choices, your tinnitus would have been gone many years ago.

 

[linearb]

I happened to be at a small local outdoor rock festival today because it was literally right down the road; had a dB meter mainly to know how hardcore I needed to be about earmuffs for kiddo who was also with me.

Volumes in 80s to low 90s from dance area ~20-30' from stage. Completely reasonable. I'm sure you could have gotten a 110 reading if you blasted yourself right in front of the stacks but literally no one was standing there.

I saw another kiddo running around also in earmuffs; when I was leaving one of the organizers complimented me on protecting kiddo's hearing. I said "I've got tinnitus, we're taking precautions" and he said "yep, me too". A rock festival organizer with tinnitus, who would have thought

 

[Luman]

I would not attend a very loud rock, jazz or even classical, concert. There are many alternatives for musical entertainment that will not blow our ears out and cause or worsen tinnitus. Acoustic music, even if it is reasonably amplified for the performance, is far less likely to cause problems, especially if earplugs are worn.

 

[Lane]

Isn't concert merely an acronym for tinnitus generator?

Well put @John Mahan -- One thing I might add, is there's so much emphasis on decibals, and what level might possibly produce a harmful spike in tinnitus. But what about vibrations? Aren't vibrations talked about all the time when it comes to visiting dentists? I don't understand why that isn't an equally important part of the equation when discussing the perils of going to concerts.

You'll get nothing but negativity here from people that don't go to concerts.

I would substitute the word "negativity" with "honesty", or perhaps "reality". Some people will be fine going to concerts with ear protection, but others won't, and will end up regretting it, possibly for the rest of their lives. Classic definition of Russian Roulette.

 

[Greg Clarke]

@Lane No, it's negativity. Most of you don't go to concerts or play in bands yet you see fit to tell others like the original poster not to go and hit a show. You guys don't have the experience, that's the fact. There's pro musicians out there with bad Tinnitus that still continue to play and perform. Wrapping yourself in cotton wool and keeping yourself indoors is not a sustainable option.


And @Bill Bauer I'm quite happy with my life choices, but thanks anyway for trying to make me feel some kind of regret over having Tinnitus.

 

[Suzerman]

I do appreciate everyone's advice. Of course I know that regarding my hearing, it's the best decision not to go, that's obvious. And your advice will always be the best and the smartest thing to do. However, people should also be informed how to take the stupid decision in the best way possible. It's like bungee jumping, obviously people are safer not doing it, but for the sake of having fun and living people want to know what precautions to take. I am aware that I am taking a risk, however I am very cautious with the risk I'm taking. I have purchased the best hearing protection I could find for this. I have actually tested out how well it works at home, by cranking up my speaker to a 100 dB while wearing them and see how I was doing and how well they worked, which was pretty good.

I also have an actual decibelmeter with me that will show me how loud the concert is in seconds, which allows me to navigate where I should stand and if I should possibly leave. If my dbmeter shows 100 dB I don't see a reason to not just stay and enjoy myself, wearing the quality hearing protection I've purchased. However if it shows 120 dB I'll be sensible enough to walk out, despite me loving this band very much. Also my tinnitus is somatic for the most part, and probably not just hearing damage. Obviously I don't know what will happen. But I've rarely been to concerts in my life, and since my tinnitus I've only been out at loud places a few times. In hindsight those times were actually a lot more risky than this, because I just wore silicone earplugs back then that maybe filtered out 19 dB at best, and wasn't wearing this bitchin' hearing protection I have now haha.

 

[Gabriel]

Completely agree with you.
Ear foam can protect up to 32 dB I think and normal noise can be up to 50 dB.
So you should be able to enjoy a concert at 80 dB with no problem, and take pause from time to time.

Also overprotecting hearing can trigger sensitivity to noise and even hyperacusis.

You should enjoy your life the best you can with the best protection possible.

 

[John Mahan]

I do appreciate everyone's advice. Of course I know that regarding my hearing, it's the best decision not to go, that's obvious. And your advice will always be the best and the smartest thing to do. However, people should also be informed how to take the stupid decision in the best way possible. It's like bungee jumping, obviously people are safer not doing it, but for the sake of having fun and living people want to know what precautions to take. I am aware that I am taking a risk, however I am very cautious with the risk I'm taking. I have purchased the best hearing protection I could find for this. I have actually tested out how well it works at home, by cranking up my speaker to a 100 dB while wearing them and see how I was doing and how well they worked, which was pretty good.

I also have an actual decibelmeter with me that will show me how loud the concert is in seconds, which allows me to navigate where I should stand and if I should possibly leave. If my dbmeter shows 100 dB I don't see a reason to not just stay and enjoy myself, wearing the quality hearing protection I've purchased. However if it shows 120 dB I'll be sensible enough to walk out, despite me loving this band very much. Also my tinnitus is somatic for the most part, and probably not just hearing damage. Obviously I don't know what will happen. But I've rarely been to concerts in my life, and since my tinnitus I've only been out at loud places a few times. In hindsight those times were actually a lot more risky than this, because I just wore silicone earplugs back then that maybe filtered out 19 dB at best, and wasn't wearing this bitchin' hearing protection I have now haha.

Ultimately people are shown the data and make their choices in life. Life is largely a choice with a lot of luck in the mix which affects outcome. Take motorcycle riding. Most that do it know the risks. I have lost friends to riding motorcycles. I love motorcycles and have built them...some even from scratch at a young age. I decided after too many close calls on the road for me to hang up riding after many years.

Statistically I personally believe bungee jumping is safer than riding motorcycles or going to a concert with tinnitus.
My opinion. What we do with age because we almost have to is...find things in life that fulfill us as much as some of the things that hurt us in ways that degrade our lives. You mentioned you have gone to very few concerts. That means not going to one more will not affect your life much. But this is your decision and a strong part of me is in your camp, live your life. But with this incredible scourge called tinnitus, I would not make your personal choice. We have such little control about it. But Greg Clarke makes the perfect argument to going. A compelling argument.
We are given the info, and make our choices. I personally would rather bungee jump.
But a counter argument to Greg because much of his life is centered on music and concert going which I completely understand btw, is if Greg hasn't ridden a motorcycle...say a 1 liter supersport race bike at 150 mph, he hasn't lived. To deny himself that level of exhilaration in life, is a life unfulfilled. Or jumping out of an airplane. Or climbing Mt. Everest. Or swimming the English channel. Or run a marathon. See the flaw in the argument?

I have been prone to some high risk behavior throughout my life. I really shouldn't be here. I grew up building race cars and raced them in so many places I shouldn't have. My friends too. We crashed a few times a long the way...me more times than I care to think about including a roll over and some how by pure luck most of us survived. A couple of my friends didn't. Many of my friends were car and motorcycle racers.

To me this tinnitus thing just completely sucks and I of all people hate avoidance behavior more than most, but I am a bit careful about my hearing because I hate tinnitus so much. That said, I am not Michael anti headphone careful.
I listen to my 100 gig music collection all the time through headphones at reasonable listening levels. Few love music as much as me. All genres. My mother was a violinist.

A good conversation to have. Hope your earplugs do what they are can. I know you will survive on some level. Question is, at what peril to your tinnitus? Personally, I don't want to take the chance of affecting mine by 1%. I don't want further degradation to my life or this risk. Yes, I want to live my life to its fullest...but with common sense based upon my physiology. Keep in mind that tinnitus is a brain disorder. As often reported here and as personally experienced, just thinking about it being affected can make it worse.
Good luck...what we all need.

 

[Suzerman]

Ultimately people are shown the data and make their choices in life. Life is largely a choice with a lot of luck in the mix which affects outcome. Take motorcycle riding. Most that do it know the risks. I have lost friends to riding motorcycles. I love motorcycles and have built them...some even from scratch at a young age. I decided after too many close calls on the road for me to hang up riding after many years.

Statistically I personally believe bungee jumping is safer than riding motorcycles or going to a concert with tinnitus.
My opinion. What we do with age because we almost have to is...find things in life that fulfill us as much as some of the things that hurt us in ways that degrade our lives. You mentioned you have gone to very few concerts. That means not going to one more will not affect your life much. But this is your decision and a strong part of me is in your camp, live your life. But with this incredible scourge called tinnitus, I would not make your personal choice. We have such little control about it. But Greg Clarke makes the perfect argument to going. A compelling argument.
We are given the info, and make our choices. I personally would rather bungee jump.
But a counter argument to Greg because much of his life is centered on music and concert going which I completely understand btw, is if Greg hasn't ridden a motorcycle...say a 1 liter supersport race bike at 150 mph, he hasn't lived. To deny himself that level of exhilaration in life, is a life unfulfilled. Or jumping out of an airplane. Or climbing Mt. Everest. Or swimming the English channel. Or run a marathon. See the flaw in the argument?

I have been prone to some high risk behavior throughout my life. I really shouldn't be here. I grew up building race cars and raced them in so many places I shouldn't have. My friends too. We crashed a few times a long the way...me more times than I care to think about including a roll over and some how by pure luck most of us survived. A couple of my friends didn't. Many of my friends were car and motorcycle racers.

To me this tinnitus thing just completely sucks and I of all people hate avoidance behavior more than most, but I am a bit careful about my hearing because I hate tinnitus so much. That said, I am not Michael anti headphone careful.
I listen to my 100 gig music collection all the time through headphones at reasonable listening levels. Few love music as much as me. All genres. My mother was a violinist.

A good conversation to have. Hope your earplugs do what they are can. I know you will survive on some level. Question is, at what peril to your tinnitus? Personally, I don't want to take the chance of affecting mine by 1%. I don't want further degradation to my life or this risk. Yes, I want to live my life to its fullest...but with common sense based upon my physiology. Keep in mind that tinnitus is a brain disorder. As often reported here and as personally experienced, just thinking about it being affected can make it worse.
Good luck...what we all need.

I definitely understand where you're coming from. And I definitely don't want to seem disrespectful or anything of everyone's experiences here. I'm trying to have common sense about it. All of your comments weigh on my mind and definitely contribute to me being super cautious during the concert, and I'm still doubtful about going tbh. And if it does affect my tinnitus I'll probably regret it definitely, but at least I've taken all the precautions I can and haven't been careless and reckless about going to the concert. I won't be standing at the front without hearing protection, and I'll definitely leave if I feel uncomfortable or if the volume is too high.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Most of you don't go to concerts or play in bands yet you see fit to tell others like the original poster not to go and hit a show.

So if I don't drink and drive, and a person posts that he plans to get wasted tomorrow and go for a drive, it's not ok for me to post arguments against that plan?

thanks anyway for trying to make me feel some kind of regret over having Tinnitus.

There is a chance that you ensured that your tinnitus will stay, and now you are encouraging others to do this trade (a couple of hours of fun in exchange for a lifetime of tinnitus).

I'm trying to have common sense about it.

ROFL

Sometimes it is live and learn. Don't touch! That is hot! I told you. Very sad.

 

[Greg Clarke]

@Bill Bauer The drinking and driving analogy is preposterous.

Bill, you don't have the experience I do. I'm qualified to give a reasonable opinion on it as I've had these experiences and lived with Tinnitus a long time. I'm not telling anyone what to do. People make up their own minds, if it were me I'd take the advice from the guy that actually does it.

If people wanted a list of things they shouldn't do or advice on staying at home 24-7 or even to be told how to "blame yourself" or to have pointed out how easily you could've avoided a lifetime of Tinnitus with a bunch of hindsight rectifications I'd point them in your direction.

 

[John Mahan]

@Bill Bauer The drinking and driving analogy is preposterous.

Bill, you don't have the experience I do. I'm qualified to give a reasonable opinion on it as I've had these experiences and lived with Tinnitus a long time. I'm not telling anyone what to do. People make up their own minds, if it were me I'd take the advice from the guy that actually does it.

If people wanted a list of things they shouldn't do or advice on staying at home 24-7 or even to be told how to "blame yourself" or to have pointed out how easily you could've avoided a lifetime of Tinnitus with a bunch of hindsight rectifications I'd point them in your direction.

I think why you are swimming upstream with the majority here Greg as there just are too many anecdotal accounts of concert goers contracting tinnitus...or those that go, their tinnitus gets worse. That's the boogieman. Your experience differs. Guess what? Tinnitus isn't an even playing field. People's tinnitus is different. Some people's tinnitus is hypersensitive to noise. Just running the vacuum can cause a week long spike for some. That isn't you.

So really your advice isn't unlike the people that come on the forum and go, you know, you tinnitus sufferers are really a bunch of cry babies. What's the problem? So what if you have a little back ground noise. There is a really problem with these ignorant people. One size doesn't fit all by a long shot. Tinnitus is like height or hair color. It is a normal distribution from imperceptible to suicide. That is the reality of tinnitus.

So most of us with at times chronic or acute tinnitus don't want to tempt fate. Sadly some developed acute tinnitus by going to a concert. Concerts aren't a level playing field either. The guy next to the speakers may get it and the guy in the back row may not. Or....visa versa. Why? Because predisposition for everybody isn't nearly the same. Many war veterans came back with no tinnitus that were on the front line. Many did.

So most of us believe its silly to go to a concert with tinnitus. Dumb. You disagree of course. Not your experience.
You talk about proof. You are living proof. False analogy. Not everybody has your hearing. Some are much worse and more susceptible.

I went to a wedding a couple of years ago after contracting tinnitus. Live band. What do people do at weddings? They dance. How many weddings have I been to that I danced at? Too many to remember. What did I do at this wedding?...including with foam ear plugs? I spent most of the time outside the building...out the front door of the hall. I have been to my share of concerts and would say, the sound level was close. I couldn't take the ear pain even with foam earplugs.

I was fine through the ceremony and dinner.

Am I like others with tinnitus? Like you? No. Many people have much different hearing than me. Some aren't as sound sensitive. But for me loud sound is a real problem. My brain has turned up the gain which is common with many tinnitus sufferers.

 

[Greg Clarke]

I do wonder why I bother. This site was a great help to me at one stage is probably the main reason, people always complained that there wasn't enough success stories or how come there are musicians that are able to cope etc. So I thought I'd post actual experience whenever possible.

I disagree with you, most people with Tinnitus don't bother with forums. The bass player in one of my bands is an example, Tinnitus is pretty bad but copes and it's never gotten worse through additional playing and performing, I know loads of people in the same boat, the industry is riddled with it. Anyway, you guys all seem to know better even though you don't attend shows or play in bands so I'll leave it at that knowing that people who are struggling and into music have experts here willing to part with amazing information.

If anyone reading is in similar position and wants to talk to someone who's had Tinnitus for a long time yet continues to enjoy concerts and perform drop me a line. I'd be happy to exchange experience via email.

 

[John Mahan]

I do wonder why I bother. This site was a great help to me at one stage is probably the main reason, people always complained that there wasn't enough success stories or how come there are musicians that are able to cope etc. So I thought I'd post actual experience whenever possible.

I disagree with you, most people with Tinnitus don't bother with forums. The bass player in one of my bands is an example, Tinnitus is pretty bad but copes and it's never gotten worse through additional playing and performing, I know loads of people in the same boat, the industry is riddled with it. Anyway, you guys all seem to know better even though you don't attend shows or play in bands so I'll leave it at that knowing that people who are struggling and into music have experts here willing to part with amazing information.

If anyone reading is in similar position and wants to talk to someone who's had Tinnitus for a long time yet continues to enjoy concerts and perform drop me a line. I'd be happy to exchange experience via email.

And I wonder why I bother to interact with guys as simple as you. You don't get it. You believe tinnitus is the same for everybody. It isn't. I just told you I am profoundly different than you. My hearing is sound sensitive. With foam ear plugs I get ear pain at concert volume levels. Are you really too dense to understand this? ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. There, I even capitalized it for you.

You know what this is like? I am an ex pro cyclist. This is like saying, gee, why is it everybody rides a bicycle so slowly? What's the problem? And that would be you. Why can't everybody ride a bicycle 100 miles at close to 25 mph? I know you are slow on a bike. All concert goers are...lol.

Your posts are beyond ignorant. You lump everybody together.

 

[Greg Clarke]

And you say I'm simple? When did I ever say it's the same for everyone? Big assumption there.

Too dense to understand??? What are you 12?

With all due respect you have Tinnitus for 5 minutes. Come back to me on this topic when you've a few more miles on the clock and you've done a bit of reading yourself. Glass houses and all.

Oh and super cycle analogy. Calls me thick, yet that's one of the dopiest analogies I've seen here and that's saying something.

 

[John Mahan]

And you say I'm simple? When did I ever say it's the same for everyone? Big assumption there.

Too dense to understand??? What are you 12?

With all due respect you have Tinnitus for 5 minutes. Come back to me on this topic when you've a few more miles on the clock and you've done a bit of reading yourself. Glass houses and all.

And the 'simple' counterpoint to you is, you can be at something a long time and still be clueless...lol.
Ask Michael about headphone usage.

Possible I have been to more concerts than you. I am really old.

You have to own your advice, for you, your advice holds up.
For me? Not so much. For others? You don't know either.
Now, try to keep up on the bike. I mean, its just riding a bike and turning the pedals. You should be able to keep up but for some reason you can't. Maybe you need more time on the bike. Probably won't help. People are born different. Why the average guy will never be a pro cyclist or may even struggle with tinnitus.

 

[Bill Bauer]

The drinking and driving analogy is preposterous.

The only thing that might be wrong with it is that drinking and driving might end up in Other people being hurt too. This isn't going to happen when one takes risks by exposing him/herself to noise.

I'm qualified to give a reasonable opinion on it as I've had these experiences and lived with Tinnitus a long time.

Have you seen the post below?

I didn't read all the above comments, but did peruse a fair amount of it, and ran across many good points on both sides of the argument. What strikes me is there seems to be an underlying assumption (of course I may be wrong on this) that all brains and neurological systems are created equal. The way I see it, that's simply not the case, so everybody's way of dealing with tinnitus and/or hyperacusis is going to have to be highly individualized.

I read a book many years ago called "Adrenal Syndrome". A lot of the book touched on the residual resiliency of people's adrenal glands as they respond to life's stresses. Very low resiliency often resulted in months/years of chronic debilitating exhaustion following a stressful event(s) in their lives. Very high resiliency indicated essentially the opposite. The author broke this down into some rough numbers:

25% of people have low resiliency, meaning normal life stressors will often send them into some degree of a tailspin.
25% of people have high resiliency, meaning that no matter how severe a stressor comes into their lives, they will be able to cope without becoming debilitated to any degree.
50% of people fall somewhere inbetween.

I believe there are some kind of corresponding numbers for a person's brain and neurological resiliency as well, which can greatly affect the ability to cope with tinnitus. (I believe adrenal resiliency also plays a major role in our ability to cope). -- Based on these assumptions, it's pretty easy for me to conclude that what may be overprotection for one person will be underprotection for another, and vice versa.

I think the main point to understand for someone new to tinnitus is that their path forward is going to be a lot of "testing the waters". Generally, IMHO, it's going to take a few weeks or months to get important insights that will help us achieve a healthy balance. In all likelihood, most people are going to learn from experience when their over-protecting or under-protecting.

I've come to believe however, that in those early months, if one is going to err in either direction, it should be toward overprotection. It just seems to me the consequences of underprotection (which could result in permanent injury) in those early times are much more dire than the consequences of overprotection--which as I understand, generally results in temporary setbacks.

Doing a number of things to better support the brain and neurological system and the body's stress response (adrenal glands) is quite high on my list of recommendations I would make to anybody with tinnitus. Doing so might even prevent phonophobia or OCD, etc., as we go through our learning curves -- Just my 2 cents worth.

It is possible that you are fortunate enough to be part of the highly resilient group. I read enough posts to know that that low resiliency group exists. There is only one way to find out whether one is part of the low resiliency group, and it is the Hard way...

or advice on staying at home 24-7

What are you talking about?

If people wanted a list of things they shouldn't do

When people get, say, diabetes, they ought to want to know a list of things that they should avoid doing/eating now that they have diabetes.

 

[Bill Bauer]

When did I ever say it's the same for everyone?

When you made a blanket statement that it is ok to attend concerts.

 

[Greg Clarke]

Possible I have been to more concerts than you. I am really old.

Doubt it.

 

[John Mahan]

Doubt it.

Maybe not. Been to a lot. Love music. Not a big metal guy tho. Like some of it.

How old? Why do so many boomers have tinnitus?
This couldn't have helped:

 

[Greg Clarke]

Look mate I didn't come on to have a go or get personal with anyone but you pissed me off calling intellect into question. I never dismissed anyone else's experiences just annoyed that people without the relevant experience being overly negative.

 

[Greg Clarke]

How old? Why do so many boomers have tinnitus?


I'm almost 40, a lot of people have it because the education simply wasn't there. 20 years ago you'd be hard pressed to find someone at a show with ear protection, bands also used to play with no restrictions on volume, a lethal combination really.

 

[John Mahan]

Look mate I didn't come on to have a go or get personal with anyone but you pissed me off calling intellect into question. I never dismissed anyone else's experiences just annoyed that people without the relevant experience being overly negative.

I don't care if I pissed you off. Could care less. Your intellect is in play if you are engaging me. I am rather proud of my intellect and have the academic credentials to prove it. You want to continue your narrative? I'm your huckleberry to coin a famous movie.

If you were smarter you wouldn't have written the part about 'dismissing anybody else's experiences'. Your emotional annoyance is just that. You are emotional and not rational. I explained my personal experience. Each of us looks through a different lens. You have your experience and I have mine. Where your advice is 'dismissed'...completely written off...is your denial of 'other's experience'. There is a boat load of data that says that going to concerts is bad for the ears. A boatload...whether your tinnitus flatlines or not. You are a single data point. Your data point is no more significant than mine or the countless others that have come on this board in tears begging for help because they went to a concert and now have tinnitus...some severe.

If you want to continue 'your' dismal of other accounts that is fine. You will be met with big backlash is all because off all the data available that says that loud sound...what a concert is...is bad for hearing. This may or may not create tinnitus or make it worse.

 

[Greg Clarke]

"If you want to continue 'your' dismal of other accounts that is fine."

Classic, calls my intellect into question then writes the above. Looks like you need English lessons.

 

[John Mahan]

"If you want to continue 'your' dismal of other accounts that is fine."

Classic, calls my intellect into question then writes the above. Looks like you need English lessons.

You may believe concert going is fine for everybody with tinnitus...but there is no question about your intellectual deficit. It is on full display in every sentence you write.

You have to give me some credit for believing that all your concert going isn't the root cause...though maybe too big a diet of metal...of your early stages of dementia. I am not saying that. Rather, intellect probably wasn't your strong suit to begin with..lol. Like your tinnitus, you had a genetic predisposition.

 

[Greg Clarke]

"You will be met with big backlash is all because off all the data available that says that loud sound.."

Another grammatical error there chump. Now don't talk to me about data, I'm a scientist, majored in chemistry and statistics. I've read tonnes of papers on Tinnitus, related studies, demographics you name it...


I'd love to know what the sources are for "all the data" you're referring to..... I'd bet money on it being a bunch of stuff you've read on the net.

 

[John Mahan]

"You will be met with big backlash is all because off all the data available that says that loud sound.."

Another grammatical error there chump. Now don't talk to me about data, I'm a scientist, majored in chemistry and statistics. I've read tonnes of papers on Tinnitus, related studies, demographics you name it...


I'd love to know what the sources are for "all the data" you're referring to..... I'd bet money on it being a bunch of stuff you've read on the net.

Do you deny that everything on the web is wrong? Do you believe that boomers have disproportionately more tinnitus than the previous generation due to increased sound exposure?

Maybe you can share with us what you believe about tinnitus. Why it comes about since you believe concert going will not increase it.

Do you believe in the concept of hyperacusis and sound sensitivity?...or it that a made up concept of the internet as well?

Perhaps you could share a bit more about your belief about tinnitus...if you believe it is the same for everybody and how it is caused and why close to 100 db sound exposure is ok.