What does it mean if you do not have any supporting cells left? And who would then benefit from participating in the trial?
Audion Therapeutics Trial
- Thread starter Aaron123
- Start date
What does it mean if you do not have any supporting cells left? And who would then benefit from participating in the trial?
MemberThe drug works by triggering supporting cells to convert into hair cells. Frequency on the other hand, has a drug which triggers multiplying of supporting cells before converting into hair cells.
ManagerThat is correct!
On the other hand, it will be close to impossible to tell who has supporting cells left and who does not. This is another reason why we need better diagnostic tools. Preferably some kind of imaging technology.
Although there are people working on just that, we are still far off from being able to visually inspect what is going on inside the cochlea, who has supporting cells and who does not.
Until we can objectively and accurately assess the damage inside the cochlea of a living person, all forms of therapies will be blindshots, based on pathophysiological and histological findings in the labs. Hopefully scientists will have learned a lot this way, enough to be able to devise a beneficial therapy. But you still have that problem of not knowing who a certain therapy will benefit the most, and initially these therapies will be costly.
So we need to find a way to peek inside the cochlea. Not only would it be beneficial to patients, it would also unlock new opportunities for investigators.
- May 7, 2015
- 1,051
- Tinnitus Since
- 29.09/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma using headphones
One should think a combination of X-ray technology and microscope would do the trick. But I bet its not that easy. Or did I just solve it right there
btw. This video show us pretty much how is it build. Quite facinating!
src: http://www.frequencytx.com/news-events/pr-02-21-2017.php
If above statement of FX is true, I would just hope that a few cells remaining would be sufficient to trigger the multiplication to several thounds so it would work. Undoubedtly you know more about it then me, I think I do not want to know to much about it and just hope for it to work for my tinnitus. First find the cure, then later on figure out why it works. Like with Lithium; it works as anti-depressant but they don't know why.
Radiomicroscopy! We already have radiosurgery! So sure, why not!
Dare to think the impossible!http://www.daretothinktheimpossible.com/
New cone-beam CT as well as ultra high resolution CT scanners are coming to the market.
http://medicalphysicsweb.org/cws/article/research/69215
https://www.isct.org/computed-tomography-blog/2017/6/16/cutting-edge-ct-news-from-isct17
These technologies will enable scientists and clinicians to get a new level of details when imaging the inner ear, as well as other parts of the body. Minimizing the components and making them more energy efficient will set the bar even higher.
Makes me curious. As per below link in this reply, they would start in August.
Could it be above it not properly up-to-date? As in, http://www.audiontherapeutics.com/, ever looked at their website footer?:
https://www.actiononhearingloss.org...earing-loss-to-take-part-in-a-clinical-trial/
Attachments
Yeah, I saw that. That's because they don't have the time nor people to maintain such things. The website was probably done in 2011 by some freelance web developer and it's been left in that state since.
The most important thing for these companies is that they have a web presence. That's important for any company today. But especially if you seek investors with deep pockets. What a better way to showcase who you are and what you do then to have a website.
Of course some of them have more people and more money to invest in such things. Like the website of Frequency Therapeutics and Decibel Therapeutics. Have you seen Audio Cure's website lately? They did a complete remake recently. The new site looks much cleaner and modern. Perhaps Audion will do something like that soon as well.
So I would not give too much importance to that.
Does anyone know if this is correct?
http://www.ibtimes.com.au/dutch-company-hold-human-clinical-trial-reverse-hearing-loss-1522898
Quote: "For the human trial, Audion would use compounds developed by pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly and with Frequency Therapeutics which would develop the treatment – using a tube or piece of foam in the middle ear to stimulate regrowth of hair cells damaged by sound."
End quote.
Why is Frequency Therapeutics mentioned?
Frequency Therapeutics is following a different approach from Audion/Eli Lilly if I remember correct. Is there collaboration between Audion and Frequency Therapeutics?
http://www.ibtimes.com.au/dutch-company-hold-human-clinical-trial-reverse-hearing-loss-1522898
Quote: "For the human trial, Audion would use compounds developed by pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly and with Frequency Therapeutics which would develop the treatment – using a tube or piece of foam in the middle ear to stimulate regrowth of hair cells damaged by sound."
End quote.
Why is Frequency Therapeutics mentioned?
Frequency Therapeutics is following a different approach from Audion/Eli Lilly if I remember correct. Is there collaboration between Audion and Frequency Therapeutics?
- Feb 9, 2017
- 92
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2017
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud music at concert
Hey @Reinier, thanks for posting and that's a really good question. I did some searching, and I came across this article from 2016 (emphasis mine):
And later in the same article:
It sounds like this collaboration is a new development. The following is purely my own speculation, but I suspect that Audion Therapeutics wants to take advantage of Frequency Therapeutics's proprietary local drug-delivery methods, which would have been developed and announced after Audion made the initial press release linked above.
But then the question: do they use different methods for inducing haircell growth from supporting cells? (or both Notch) My concern would be if audion trials fail, does this mean FX method is also compromised?
Yes they use different methods. If Audion is successful FX would likely be even much more successful
Coleoptere
Member
Yes, but it will take a while before these resultaten will be published.
http://www.isrctn.com/ISRCTN59733689
The intended publish date is 31-1-2020 according to this link. That is late for a test which is supposed to be finished mid 2018.
The informal assessment will leak long before that. They also may decide to push the publish date earlier.
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-02/miot-dtc021717.php
From above I understand FX also uses Notch in their approach, is this correct?
That article is over a year old. There's no evidence that Frequency and Audion are working together, and I can't imagine why it would make sense for Frequency at this point. That article is very similar to an article in the atlantic that came out around the same time. It was mentioned here around the time it was published: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/inner-ear-hair-cell-regeneration-—-maybe-we-can-know-more.3131/page-47#post-194157
All of these articles are over a year old so they don't report a new development.
Frequency does not - to my knowledge - have a proprietary drug delivery system, and one isn't mentioned in your link. They do - or are planning to do - a simple injection through the ear drum, but such an injection is not proprietary. Their PCA platform is of course proprietary but that isn't a delivery method.
Frequency is attempting to do 2 things: 1) cause supporting cells to multiply and 2) cause some of the multiplied supporting cells to become hair cells. Audion is attempting to cause supporting cells to become hair cells without first creating new supporting cells. (This is why there is concern about the depletion of supporting cells in Audion's approach.) In both cases the differentiation of supporting cells into hair cells relies on a gamma secretase inhibitor though the specifics are a bit different in each case. So there will be information in the Audion results that may tell us something about Frequency but a failure by Audion does not necessarily mean Frequency will fail though it would be concerning. (I've attempted to clarify what was done in each experiment in the McLean et al paper from earlier this year in a post in the thread on Frequency.)
Yes, Frequency relies on Notch inhibition in the differentiation of supporting cells into hair cells.
Publishing findings in Jan 2020
http://www.isrctn.com/ISRCTN59733689
from the paper:
Secondary outcome measures
1. Change in hearing is measured using Pure Tone Audiometry (PTA) (dBHL) at baseline and week 12
2. Balance is measured using several balance tests at visit one, two, and three
3. Tinnitus measured using a questionnaire at visit one, two and three
http://www.isrctn.com/ISRCTN59733689
from the paper:
Secondary outcome measures
1. Change in hearing is measured using Pure Tone Audiometry (PTA) (dBHL) at baseline and week 12
2. Balance is measured using several balance tests at visit one, two, and three
3. Tinnitus measured using a questionnaire at visit one, two and three
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
It says now it is recruiting but on the regain our hearing website says not recruiting yet.
Hopefully going as planned!!
Coleoptere
Member
@Samir already requested for being recruited around 7 post up on this page:
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/audion-therapeutics-trial.21830/page-3#post-275531
So if you want to participate ....
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/audion-therapeutics-trial.21830/page-3#post-275531
So if you want to participate ....
- Feb 5, 2017
- 787
- Tinnitus Since
- 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Fluconazole
Do you believe that hearing aid companies are able to block/affect the results of those trials 'under the table' in order not to loose their profits? A possible success would be devastating for them.
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