Autifony Therapeutics Phase II Study for AUT00063, for the Treatment of Hearing Loss and Tinnitus

#3,451
Silvio Sabo said:
I'm not saying I disagree but I don't think it is possible to hold development back, at least not in the long run. The oil industry tried by buying patents of solutions for f.i. electrical cars and ways to use solar power and then just sat on them not doing anything and yet we are seeing more and more electrical cars. And the oil industry has A LOT more money than the hearing aids industry.

As for ENTs they wouldn't be out of a job if there was a cure for tinnitus. They don't do anything for as as it is now except from the 5 magical words: "learn to live with it"!
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Well you can believe as you say, i just wonder how we had people and inside people or whatever saying something is having effect and it i s good and then suddenly taken of the table. (people inside I had from several people + 2 who appeared)

It is Swedish way to think there can be nothing bad and corrupt otherwise government would fix it, but then again Reinfeldt Fredrik former prime minister of Sweden wrote a book explaining how Swedes are actually stupid and don't see longer then their nose and just believe all will fix itself by itself and government will fix all problems.

If U or we stop to think a bit 58 people we orn prial, there have been 29 using medicine and 29 on placebo.

So project was made with 29 people during 28 days. My trobalt did not reach its max in 28 days.

Anyway it is dead. We can't complain. Why did they do trial when it was doomed to fail in start.
 
#3,452
Christian78 said:
Well you can believe as you say, i just wonder how we had people and inside people or whatever saying something is having effect and it i s good and then suddenly taken of the table. (people inside I had from several people + 2 who appeared)

It is Swedish way to think there can be nothing bad and corrupt otherwise government would fix it, but then again Reinfeldt Fredrik former prime minister of Sweden wrote a book explaining how Swedes are actually stupid and don't see longer then their nose and just believe all will fix itself by itself and government will fix all problems.

If U or we stop to think a bit 58 people we orn prial, there have been 29 using medicine and 29 on placebo.

So project was made with 29 people during 28 days. My trobalt did not reach its max in 28 days.

Anyway it is dead. We can't complain. Why did they do trial when it was doomed to fail in start.
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Like I said I don't think it's possible in the long run. It is possible to disrupt some projects so it's not impossible that Autifony sold out but in the end there are so many companies and researchers in different parts of the world that are researching on tinnitus that it's impossible to stop them all. There are researchers who are sufferers as well, just remember that. You might be able to buy one or two or several - if you're really successful - but there is always going to be someone who just won't sell out. Or that is able to see that he or she will make a lot more by pushing a drug out on the market.

Just like the example in my previous post. The oil industry ran a campaign for years where they paid huge amounts of money to anyone that came out with a patent on a solution for using any other energy source then oil, to keep it off the market. And they were very successful for a short period of time. However in the long run it's just not possible and if you compare resources of the oil industry with...well pretty much any industry, you will find no industry even worth mentioning in the same sentence. If the oil industry couldn't hold back development of technology towards other fuel sources. And just remember that the oil industry pretty much owns the worlds economy and has done so for almost 100 years. Then the hearing aids industry sure as hell isn't going to be able to hold development of drugs back for any longer period of time. If they are in fact doing it.

Now it might just be the Swedish nativity talking (I'm not a swede by the way). But when someone comes out and says things like "I have inside information" without any sort of proof. I tend to get a bit suspicious. ;)
 
#3,454
swc5150 said:
Agreed, the profit potential in a T treatment is way, way larger than any check a competitor would write.
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Well, both yes and no. It is a huge prize for the one that delivers the holy grail of tinnitus treatment but one should never forget that a big check now can be very tempting compared to a maybe bigger one tomorrow. With emphasis on the maybe part. However not everyone is going to sell either way. Also the amount of resources it would take to buy out every single one...I just don't see it happening. And all it takes is the ONE. Just one you're not able to buy and BAM! You're done! As soon as that one drug hits the market, all the buyouts you have done up to that point are in vain, money in the sea. I just don't see it as a viable business strategy.

So in conclusion: you can do it short term. You can probably hold something back for a period of time. But not forever. And also remember that patents do expire. On drugs it's 20 years. So even if you do buy someone out the patent will expire eventually and allow anyone to produce the drug.
 
#3,458
Gill Hayes said:
Stopping the development of a drug in order to get their's to market first. I may have misunderstood the previous posts but that's how I've read them as meaning ?
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Well not only that. There are those who think that the hearing aids industry is sabotaging drug development in order to sell more hearing aids. They figure that if there is a cure for tinnitus and hearing loss they wouldn't be able to sell TRT equipment and so on. So it's not just other research companies.

The idea is not totally insane since, as I have mentioned, the oil industry has done this with patents for solutions regarding renewable fuels sources such as solar and wind power as well as patents for batteries and electrical engines that can be used in electrical cars.

However their efforts have just managed to slow things down a bit, not stopping the development.
 
#3,459
I think there are many conspiracy theories being bandied about regarding the failure of Aut63. But it simply didn't show the efficacy they were hoping it would, so there was no point in continuing with the trial. This happens all the time in drug development. I really don't believe it's anything more than that. But that is just my opinion having worked in pharma for many years. But whatever is behind it, we will never know.
 
#3,460
There are those who think that the hearing aids industry is sabotaging drug development in order to sell more hearing aids.
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I keep reading about the role the hearing aid industry is playing. Can someone explain how they are sabotaging drug development?

I would guess that the hearing aid industry would be much more worried about the attempts to reverse hearing loss yet there are gene therapy and other trials that are on-going. Perhaps if those trials fail that will be due to the hearing aid companies as well?
 
#3,461
Gill Hayes said:
I think there are many conspiracy theories being bandied about regarding the failure of Aut63. But it simply didn't show the efficacy they were hoping it would, so there was no point in continuing with the trial. This happens all the time in drug development. I really don't believe it's anything more than that. But that is just my opinion having worked in pharma for many years. But whatever is behind it, we will never know.
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I agree with you. I'm just saying what some people think.

But regardless I am eager to read the final report on AUT00063. I am still a tiny bit skeptical about the trial. Not that they didn't show efficacy but as to if the length of the trial and the dosage they used might have been off and that it's the reason that they had poor results. I hope to get some answers when that report comes out.


Aaron123 said:
I keep reading about the role the hearing aid industry is playing. Can someone explain how they are sabotaging drug development?

I would guess that the hearing aid industry would be much more worried about the attempts to reverse hearing loss yet there are gene therapy and other trials that are on-going. Perhaps if those trials fail that will be due to the hearing aid companies as well?
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There are lots of ways you can sabotage research. Every new drug is usually patented upon discovery. So by buying the patent of a potential drug and then just sit on it for 20 years never letting it go into trials or hit the market is one way. You can also pay researchers not to get into the field, stall their research or to stop their research and do something else. You can buy companies that are doing research and then let them go bankrupt. If someone bought Auris Medical or Autiforny Therapeutics for example they would get all the patents of their drugs and potential drugs that they might have worked on. They would then have full control of all of that and could then just decide not to do anything sensible with it and just let it die.

If you're creative there are lots of ways but I believe it's very, very hard to have long term success. As I've also explained in my previous posts why I think so.
 
#3,463
Silvio Sabo said:
Like I said I don't think it's possible in the long run. It is possible to disrupt some projects so it's not impossible that Autifony sold out but in the end there are so many companies and researchers in different parts of the world that are researching on tinnitus that it's impossible to stop them all. There are researchers who are sufferers as well. Just remember that. You might be able to buy one or two or several but there is always going to be someone who just won't sell out. Or that is able to see that he or she will make a lot more by pushing a drug out on the market.

Just like the example in my previous post. The oil industry ran a campaign for years where they paid huge amounts of money to anyone that came out with a patent on a solutions for using any other energy source then oil to keep it off the market. And they were very successful for a short period of time. However in the long run it's just not possible and if you compare resources of the oil industry with...well pretty much any industry, you will find no industry even worth mentioning in the same sentence. If the oil industry - that pretty much owns the worlds economy and has done for almost 100 years - couldn't hold back development of technology towards other fuel sources then the hearing aids industry sure as hell isn't going to be able to hold development of drugs back for any longer period of time. If they are in fact doing it.
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I agree in it, but somehow making car run on different alternatives seems easier that to find a good chemical medicine that will have very good effect on tinnitus. Some of us who had contacts inside Autofony (or believe to have) and who got new that people there have good results (or we were made to believe so) got really disappointed and with those information understand it is too fishy.

29 people on 28 days to produce strong results. (plus if i remember there were 5 hospitals conducting research trials.)

It sounded like 6 people were per one hospital
Silvio Sabo said:
Well not only that. There are those who think that the hearing aids industry is sabotaging drug development in order to sell more hearing aids. They figure that if there is a cure for tinnitus and hearing loss they wouldn't be able to sell TRT equipment and so on. So it's not just other research companies.

The idea is not totally insane since, as I have mentioned, the oil industry has done this with patents for solutions regarding renewable fuels sources such as solar and wind power as well as patents for batteries and electrical engines that can be used in electrical cars.

However their efforts have just managed to slow things down a bit, not stopping the development.
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If they fight enough there will be no treatment for tinnitus left. We are not electric car, nor does world need us.
 
#3,464
Silvio Sabo said:
And also remember that patents do expire. On drugs it's 20 years. So even if you do buy someone out the patent will expire eventually and allow anyone to produce the drug.
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20 years is a LONG LONG time to make money. The CEO who made that decision would probably retire by then, so that's all he cares about is his 401K plan. While we T sufferers gonna suffer 2 more decades to make somebody rich.
 
#3,466
I hope when Dr. Large told me they have no plans for further testing doesn't mean further testing will not happen. I just have a hard time with the conspiracy thoughts, and can't imagine they'd just call it off completely, given the investments involved, and that there's is some evidence of success. Plus, there was was positive news, if one did some digging and found some reputable folks to ask, as Christian agrees. Which reminds me, where is Corrine? Paid handsomely to go away?;) kidding of course! But her experience mirrored expected results, supposedly.
 
#3,468
Christian78 said:
I agree in it, but somehow making car run on different alternatives seems easier that to find a good chemical medicine that will have very good effect on tinnitus. Some of us who had contacts inside Autofony (or believe to have) and who got new that people there have good results (or we were made to believe so) got really disappointed and with those information understand it is too fishy.

29 people on 28 days to produce strong results. (plus if i remember there were 5 hospitals conducting research trials.)

It sounded like 6 people were per one hospital

If they fight enough there will be no treatment for tinnitus left. We are not electric car, nor does world need us.
Click to expand...

The difference isn't as big as you think it is. How many diferent ways are there to build a solar power plant? Or an electric engine?

Or we can look at it this way. How many different types of pain medication do we have? One would think there aren't so many right. But there are a buttload of different types of pain killers.

Antibiotics then? There are so many different types of -cilins it's ridicilous!

There is never a single one way to do anything. If that was the case we would have ONE car manufacturer and not one for every country. We would have ONE pharma and not one huge in every continent and basically one small for every city.
 
#3,469
I highly doubt the hearing aid industry is involved in this in any way. People looking for relief of tinnitus would be a very small part of their overall market. I do agree that something seems a little off with the fact they did not use more people and that the dosage was only for 29 days and not increased at all, but its done and there really is nothing we can do about it.
 
#3,470
Is there anything else out there in terms of promising research or ongoing study? Apart from AM101 which doesn't seem to be working? Anything at all to look forward to? Or are we back to square one?
 
#3,471
_Patrick_ said:
Is there anything else out there in terms of promising research or ongoing study? Apart from AM101 which doesn't seem to be working? Anything at all to look forward to? Or are we back to square one?
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AM102 and SF0034, plus developments in cochlear hair cell regeneration.

Food for thought, T is the second highest expenditure in the US for veterans disability; Over $500million last year. Our government wants a treatment, and there are no doubt companies drooling over the military contract to supply it.
 
#3,472
There's some good stuff going on in respect of drug research and development for tinnitus at the moment. There's also stem cell procedures under investigation.
The positive thing to take from the failure of AUT63 is that science can learn from it and progress.
So yes, there are things to look forward to but keep in mind nothing is gauranteed at this point and we should be cautiously optimistic at best.
 
#3,473
I talked to my ENT about all this. He was at some point involved in the AM101 study and is pretty much involved with tinnitus research in France.
He told me the failure of AUT63 is not a surprise, since he doesn't believe in the chemical approach. He doesn't believe a medicine could act as a magic bullet that would target specifically tinnitus perceptions only.
He is more confident the solution (or at least a part of it) will come from stuff like gene therapy, or brain therapy such as neurofeedback stuff.
 
#3,474
Silvio Sabo said:
The difference isn't as big as you think it is. How many diferent ways are there to build a solar power plant? Or an electric engine?

Or we can look at it this way. How many different types of pain medication do we have? One would think there aren't so many right. But there are a buttload of different types of pain killers.

Antibiotics then? There are so many different types of -cilins it's ridicilous!

There is never a single one way to do anything. If that was the case we would have ONE car manufacturer and not one for every country. We would have ONE pharma and not one huge in every continent and basically one small for every city.
Click to expand...


Still it is different quite a lot. We cant understand brain a lot. we cant open brain to see and experiment on it, human brain. Brain is big mystery. And we say we know something about it and then claim something and then after few years there is new reserch showing we actualy dont know anything and it is diferent.

Car are mechanics, we touch. test, see what is happening.

Bacterie is testing on and see with eyes.

Pain killers are hitting entire body, it is not some mesterious part of brain, it is not specific area, small small part.

It is big difference

There is lot of cars and lot of people want to buy them. Infections are usual and they hit entire body.

if we imagine older tv. there are transistor, capacitors, , and then we look for error, and we find some resistor burner, or capacitor blow up, transistor is broke up and we change them.

how do we find what is error in a chip? By taking it out? (take brain out)... well u understand what i am saying...
 
#3,475
_Patrick_ said:
I talked to my ENT about all this. He was at some point involved in the AM101 study and is pretty much involved with tinnitus research in France.
He told me the failure of AUT63 is not a surprise, since he doesn't believe in the chemical approach. He doesn't believe a medicine could act as a magic bullet that would target specifically tinnitus perceptions only.
He is more confident the solution (or at least a part of it) will come from stuff like gene therapy, or brain therapy such as neurofeedback stuff.
Click to expand...

Well, how come trobalt works on me :p
 
#3,478
_Patrick_ said:
I talked to my ENT about all this. He was at some point involved in the AM101 study and is pretty much involved with tinnitus research in France.
He told me the failure of AUT63 is not a surprise, since he doesn't believe in the chemical approach. He doesn't believe a medicine could act as a magic bullet that would target specifically tinnitus perceptions only.
He is more confident the solution (or at least a part of it) will come from stuff like gene therapy, or brain therapy such as neurofeedback stuff.
Click to expand...

What did he learn from AM-101? What was his opinion about it?
 
#3,479
So I'm guessing your ENT didn't believe in AM101 either? Maybe I'm confused on his definition of chemical solution, since Keppra helps me, Trobalt helps others, and if you want complete silence, get stoned off a Molly. I believe an Australian company is still trying to get to get the bottom why Molly (xtc) works?
 
#3,480
Christian78 said:
Still it is different quite a lot. We cant understand brain a lot. we cant open brain to see and experiment on it, human brain. Brain is big mystery. And we say we know something about it and then claim something and then after few years there is new reserch showing we actualy dont know anything and it is diferent.

Car are mechanics, we touch. test, see what is happening.

Bacterie is testing on and see with eyes.

Pain killers are hitting entire body, it is not some mesterious part of brain, it is not specific area, small small part.

It is big difference

There is lot of cars and lot of people want to buy them. Infections are usual and they hit entire body.

if we imagine older tv. there are transistor, capacitors, , and then we look for error, and we find some resistor burner, or capacitor blow up, transistor is broke up and we change them.

how do we find what is error in a chip? By taking it out? (take brain out)... well u understand what i am saying...
Click to expand...

You are right in that we know little about the brain which is a good thing. Because if we knew all there is to know about the brain and still had no cure for tinnitus we would all be in big trouble. Or at least bigger then we are already in.

I know the brain is not an engine but we still study it. There are ways. And as time goes we will know more and more. Once upon a time we knew nothing about engines or capacitors or electricity or pretty much anything. Then those who study the brain aren't car mechanics so they have other ways of studying things than to cut them out and pick them apart.

I cannot say this with 100% certainty because...well, you can never be 100% sure about anything. But usually there is never a single one way to do something. My point with painkillers was not what it targets, what it does or how it works. My point was that there is more then one way to alleviate pain. Or else there would be one type of painkiller manufactured by one single company that has the patent for it. But that's not how it is, now is it?

AM-101 is on the verge of being released on the market and yet Auris Medical is announcing AM-102! Why is that? Is it because there is only one single way to treat tinnitus even at the acute stage? No! They are saying that they have found a new target. Another way to treat tinnitus that they presume will work even better!? :eek:

I hope you get the point.
 

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