MemberIt's a tough call with psychedelics and being on the edge like that. It's worth a last ditch effort in my book but that's for me.
Basically Cured with Psilocybin
- Thread starter the Jalombian
- Start date
I would definitely try Ketamine before any psychs. Ketamine has long lasting positive effects on mood. Plus it's actually also fun if used recreationally but most people probably aren't into that.
- Oct 31, 2020
- 1,254
- Tinnitus Since
- 9-17-2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- turning everything up to 11
I would try DXM first, then Ketamine, then Psilocybin.
I may be going this route, but I really hate DXM. It makes me uncontrollably jittery and anxious, even at small doses.
I personally would go for the shrooms first, simply because I've had them a few times with great effect (pre-tinnitus).
Funny you mention DXM - new drug approved today with DXM + Buproprion:
FDA OKs First Oral NMDA Receptor Antagonist for Depression
What's the cost per session and what dose of Ketamine?I have done 8 sessions of Ketamine. It's expensive AF.
It's like €70 a gram on the black market.
What effect have you noticed from it? I have only ever done it recreationally.
- Oct 31, 2020
- 1,254
- Tinnitus Since
- 9-17-2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- turning everything up to 11
I figure cough medicine is easiest to get your hands on so might as well try it first.
Funny enough, I posted about Auvelity here:
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/661662/
To add a datapoint to the discussion. I have frequently experimented with magic mushrooms and other psychedelics to help with depression caused mostly by tinnitus and while I have experienced no ill effects, it has had no impact on tinnitus.
They definitely helped with depression however and IMHO is a safer alternative to SSRIs, which likely caused my tinnitus in the first place fifteen years ago. Doctors are way too quick to prescribe SSRIs unfortunately.
They definitely helped with depression however and IMHO is a safer alternative to SSRIs, which likely caused my tinnitus in the first place fifteen years ago. Doctors are way too quick to prescribe SSRIs unfortunately.
Which other psychedelics did you have a good effect from?
I like psychedelics that have an easier/more mild headspace such as 4-HO-MET or 2C-B for instance. I'm not sure if these ones would provide as much of a therapeutic effect since they are not as strong on the mental side. They can still be very strong on the mental side if you take too much but on equal doses of 4-HO-MET and 4-AcO-DMT (the active compound in magic mushrooms), the 4-HO-MET is much more easy going.
If I was going to try psychedelics, I would definitely try 4-HO-MET or 4-AcO-MET or any of the easier headspace ones first but that's just me. Not sure if you could ask a clinic to dose you with that instead of magic mushrooms. It's extremely similar. There is a huge long list of magic mushroom analogs.
I'd love to hear from someone who went to South America to do an Ayahuasca retreat to try and cure their tinnitus. That would for sure be on the extreme end of the spectrum.
Each IV session is $500. Your starter dose is, I believe, 50 mg and they go up from there depending on how you react. And that $500 is just to sit in a room with an IV. No one monitors you. They check in on you about halfway through and that's it. When you're done, you walk out. It's a big racket because the FDA hasn't approved IVs for depression. Only the inhalers have been approved. Once again, the gov't is dragging their feet for no reason.
I was using it for depression/PTSD/Anxiety. The first 6 sessions really helped. Now, not so much. I'm crashing really badly and finding no joy in anything anymore. It's 100% because of my hearing/tinnitus. I'm thinking of going back for another few sessions. As others have said, what good is $$ in your savings account if you don't want to live? I can't work any more. I have so many problems that life just seems pointless.
That said, again, my tinnitus really spiked during a couple of the sessions. I was "under" and freaking out (for many reasons) and all I could hear was the tinnitus.
Same here, tbh. Mine started 13 years ago after my (then) GP literally threw a box of Effexor at me and told me to start taking it. I am not sure if I hate him or myself more for starting. They've ruined my life.
That is a super low dose. Especially since you are able to walk so soon after. Maybe a therapeutic needs a low dose. Any time I took higher doses of Ketamine I definitely couldn't walk properly for a while. Since what you are doing is off market anyway, there are other sources of Ketamine available. You can buy testing kits. It obviously is much riskier than what you are doing but is something much cheaper.
One of my old friends once took a whole gram of Ketamine in one day. The effects are fun for curios individuals. I am not advocating this at all, that is a very large amount and people shouldn't really do that. Also, you need to be very careful not to mix it with other drugs like benzos or alcohol. I might order some again to try and help.
I was at 65 mg on my last one and they didn't want to raise it. I am on the spectrum and even small doses of medicine have a huge effect on me.
If you can't walk properly afterwards, that's a problem because they want you out. I've literally had them tell me that they need the room for the next person after 2 hours. You're supposed to get it for about 45-60 minutes. They do mine over 90 minutes.
On higher doses you can walk but it just feels like you are skipping scenes, lots of delayed reaction if that makes any sense. The immediate effects wear off really quick anyway at least. I wonder would other dissociatives have the same effect. Probably would. Some can last a lot longer like several hours.
Those clinics are quite interesting. Insane how expensive it is but I guess they have a lot of overheads. Would be great if they could just decriminalize the drugs and let people buy them in shops and take them at home. Would be so much cheaper but I guess it could lead to abuse or people overdosing easily.
They're expensive because, in the US, Ketamine hasn't been approved by the FDA for depression. Only Esketamine has been but it's supposedly not as potent. I went for the IV because I needed it desperately. At this point, though, I'm exploring the Esketamine option now as well. We'll see.
They also put several other drugs in my "cocktail" for anxiety, nausea and something else. Even with that, I can't just walk out of the office. I have to sit in the lobby for about a half hour until the stuff wears off. In the beginning, I was severely messed up. It took days for me to feel normal. But... it worked (for the depression, anyway).
There is also 2-Fluorodeschloroketamine which is very similar to Ketamine, again just less potent and duration is a little longer. It's an analog so it's not actually illegal and you can order it online on the normal internet. I tried it many times and it's very similar to Ketamine. There are other drugs that are similar too like O-PCE and DCK but those are much more potent and the duration of effect is several hours. Potentially they would have even longer lasting benefits for depression but you just need to be careful if you are self-administering.
I should try some Ketamine for my mood at least. I even like the effects too lol.
I just want to add a word of caution to those who are considering psychedelic use to address tinnitus.
Psychedelics can have a negative/dangerous side. One form of this is HPPD as mentioned previously in this thread. (See also this New Yorker article.)
My tinnitus specialist theorizes that my current tinnitus may have been caused by my one time use of certain psychedelics (in CDMX months ago), as I seemed to have developed mild HPPD symptoms right after. Do your research and proceed with caution if you're determined, because it could make things worse.
Definitely avoid psychedelics if you have mental health conditions such as psychosis, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia etc.
For those who are determined, Vancouver, British Columbia actually has Ketamine therapy clinics among other psychedelics supports and networks.
I both revere and fear psychedelics now. I'm excited to see additional research in this space to see how it can improve people's quality of life.
Psychedelics can have a negative/dangerous side. One form of this is HPPD as mentioned previously in this thread. (See also this New Yorker article.)
My tinnitus specialist theorizes that my current tinnitus may have been caused by my one time use of certain psychedelics (in CDMX months ago), as I seemed to have developed mild HPPD symptoms right after. Do your research and proceed with caution if you're determined, because it could make things worse.
Definitely avoid psychedelics if you have mental health conditions such as psychosis, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia etc.
For those who are determined, Vancouver, British Columbia actually has Ketamine therapy clinics among other psychedelics supports and networks.
I both revere and fear psychedelics now. I'm excited to see additional research in this space to see how it can improve people's quality of life.
- Jan 1, 2019
- 708
- Tinnitus Since
- Steadily worsening since 2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown
Your "tinnitus specialist" might be right, I also suspect tinnitus can be caused by psychedelics if there's already a predisposition or existing hair cell or synapse damage. Maybe even by some other mechanism entirely. But without further motivation your specialist may just as well have been reaching for the easy explanation, just like professionals in the field often reach for the "stress" card when trying to explain tinnitus in the absence of a textbook audiogram dip. These people generally aren't even aware of hidden hearing loss.
Ketamine isn't known to cause HPPD as far as I know? LSD and various research drugs are infamous for causing this condition though.
I'll tell you my personal experience, just remember this won't be how everyone reacts.
I used psychedelics extensively. Once a week for many months in a row and big doses every time. I did get mild HPPD and still have it very mildly a few years later but it mostly went away when I stopped tripping.
Usually, the cases of HPPD are only from abusing those drugs for long periods of time.
If you already have a history of mental illness, or there is history of mental illness in your family, it can be bad to trip even once, as you say. Possibly if you already have visual snow or tinnitus it could make it even worse too. Reports are really 50-50 where some people get much better and others get worse.
@HeavyMantra, these are good points. My audiology tests did come back normal, but drops off at the 16 kHz - 18 kHz range. So I wonder if that counts as Hidden Hearing Loss?
I don't know if there's an association between Ketamine and HPPD, as HPPD is a under-researched field at the moment. Although, I did find this article on Google.
In this case I'm fortunate that my tinnitus specialist is a high school friend who works in hearing & audiology. Even if it is a reach, I think it's with good intentions.
@SmallRonnie, I think I'm one of the few unlucky infrequent users that developed HPPD. I've stopped all substances (including cannabis & caffeine) a few months ago.
Colorado just decriminalised them so you can get them there now. But it's not legal to import them into most states. You can of course order them online but that's not legal and you risk getting in trouble if you do so.
For me, and others too, HPPD can wear off after a few months or a few years. My friend actually likes HPPD but he likes tripping. Cannabis would definitely make it worse and it's not common knowledge. I know a guy who had a bad trip and any time he smoked cannabis months later, he was full on tripping again.
Did you get HPPD from one time? What dose did you take?
Sorry for the long delay. I did quite a heroic dose (multiple times), with no noticeable effect. I've also tried Lion's Mane, Niacin, etc. Wish I had something better to report.
Hopefully we get some better news from Frequency Therapeutics in 2023.
I read something before that said only microdoses of shrooms worked for the neurogenesis effects. Taking normal doses don't apparently work for that in particular.
You got that right! There is actually quite a lot of evidence now. Cannabis amped mine up so much that it couldn't be enjoyed. I'm extremely careful w/ anything that increases my tinnitus, even temporarily. Maybe the next time it gets amped up it stays amped up. Playing w/ fire.
Yeah, some things are probably more likely to cause long lasting issues too. Certain things I won't stop for a temporary increase though. Like Ketamine for instance. Or drinking alcohol. Neither I do too frequently but I can deal with temporary increases. It's worth it for me.
I have tried various methods of taking Ketamine. Pharma grade Ketamine IV is FAR SUPERIOR to any other method. A complete vacation from the misery you're in, big reduction in tinnitus (at least for me), and huge positive effects on mood. Ketamine may also promote neurogenesis, but I am no expert. IV is unfortunately very expensive. Perhaps some of you are lucky enough to get it covered by insurance somehow.
Since I can't get that in my country, I'll just stick to getting black market Ketamine and taking big doses of it. It would be nice to see how a large dose goes for me. Even if I just have to dose once every two weeks or something like that, it would be ok. Most people say the antidepressant effects wear off after a couple of weeks.
You might find this URL interesting: https://ketamineclinics.com/treatment-results/
I've also been prescribed oral Ketamine. It may have helped with depression, but it is difficult to say. I disliked needing to take the Ketamine 2-3x evening per week, and I found the increase in tinnitus annoying. I also had to pay out of pocket for it, and it kept me awake late when using it in the evenings, so I quit using it early 2022.
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