SoulStation
Member
Thank you . was there something they look for on the EEG in particular in regards to tinnitus?
Brai2n Tinnitus Clinic in Belgium
- Thread starter Markku
- Start date
Memberthey mostly find a peak or over activity in the central brain called the `sub genual` brain. I am still trying to figure out where this is exactly because there are a kind of oposing ideas of how the brain is ordened and the name giving (brodmann type) .. so if mine is central in sub genua I feel it is the brodmann 24 - 25 part of the brain which processes emotions and fear etc ... so trying to reverse depression ( by food, sport, health, meditation ... etc) or taking some medicine that changes this imbalance will infuelnce the tinnitus I hope... also i`m looking into taking psylocibin mushrooms because they are known to lower brain acivity in several regions... and I think it also affects this one. ... because of the central placement between the auditory cortexes ... the sub genua influences other parts of the brain and this is why we hear the tinntus (quoting my TMS nurse) ... hope this helps ...
SoulStation
Member
Thank you Nills. I appreciate the detailed response . I need to get a qEEG . time to see my neurologist again.
@SoulStation
I agree with Nills, not worth flying that far to Belgium Antwerp for EEG qEEG. I would be surprised if New York or other US clinics couldn't do that! I do not know about the cost of course in the USA. The former leading force of Brain clinic, Dr De Ridder, works in New Zeeland now. Educating new neurologists i thought, because of a local shortage of neurologists in the country /region. I myself haven't been at Brain (only 40 miles from home).
Some findings @ Brain seem to aknowledge recent findings that mutliple brain parts can be involved in certain cases of T. Emotions and fear make me think about the limbic system sometimes called the 'emotional' brain (hippocampus, amygdala, thalamus... ) Not that part on its own since the parts Nills is saying are part of the cerebral cortex
"The cerebral cortex is responsible for the processes of thought, perception and memory and serves as the seat of advanced motor function, social abilities, language, and problem solving"
I can see why depression and bad memories related to negative emotions, injury or chronic stress ( T distress?) might be constantly feeding T, and its worth figthing those in helping you to cope with it: lower it, accept it better, or resolve it one day.
While the Jastreboff model helps many cope, it still lacks for some sufferers. Lets hope the research can shed even more light with time.
I agree with Nills, not worth flying that far to Belgium Antwerp for EEG qEEG. I would be surprised if New York or other US clinics couldn't do that! I do not know about the cost of course in the USA. The former leading force of Brain clinic, Dr De Ridder, works in New Zeeland now. Educating new neurologists i thought, because of a local shortage of neurologists in the country /region. I myself haven't been at Brain (only 40 miles from home).
Some findings @ Brain seem to aknowledge recent findings that mutliple brain parts can be involved in certain cases of T. Emotions and fear make me think about the limbic system sometimes called the 'emotional' brain (hippocampus, amygdala, thalamus... ) Not that part on its own since the parts Nills is saying are part of the cerebral cortex
"The cerebral cortex is responsible for the processes of thought, perception and memory and serves as the seat of advanced motor function, social abilities, language, and problem solving"
I can see why depression and bad memories related to negative emotions, injury or chronic stress ( T distress?) might be constantly feeding T, and its worth figthing those in helping you to cope with it: lower it, accept it better, or resolve it one day.
While the Jastreboff model helps many cope, it still lacks for some sufferers. Lets hope the research can shed even more light with time.
SoulStation
Member
Thank you Yo Han.... I guess I'm more interested in the possibility of neuromodulation and don't know where to look in the states to find a clinic that does it which isn't insainly pricey. I want to get a qEEG but need to know what to look for and tell the neurologist to look for. Do you know anything about Dr. Jeanmonod? I would really like to consult with him to see if I may be a candidit for HIFU.
Do the EEG first and see where you have abnormal high activity ... this is the first and only step to take ... after that you can look for treatement options ... hIFU doesn`t seem to work ... the only person that did it on the forum has left us with no more info!!!! (i hope he reads this - thanks Viking after all the support we gave you no info is pretty lame)
Anyone gotten their qeeg done and wll like to discuss their results with mine? Please drop me a pm or reply me here. Thanks! Im got mine done using the 10-20 system with 19 electrodes.
Hello Soulstation,
The TMS treatment might also be obtained elsewhere. You could indeed start from the qEEG and then decide to look further into it like Nills said. Good luck with it.
ps. I've read some stories about brain and their T treatment on Dutch forums but i'd rather let the people with true experience there talk. The reactions where kind off very mixed. Some of them dismissed with a deanxit and rivotril(clonazepam) prescription. That would be dissapointing to fly to Europe for. Unless its a combined holiday or the treatment costs like 1000'sof dollars in the USA and you really want to try ... and see a bit of Europe. That could save you the plain ticket then (count in a longer stay)
Here's the prices from brai2n , i translated small bits
Consultation* 40,00€
Loreta qEEG** (surpluss on consult): 80,00€
HRV (hartrythm analysis), optional with Loreta + 20,00€
Spectral analysis, optional with Loreta + 20,00€
Connectivity analysis, optional with Loreta + 20,00€
tDCS 55,00€ (1st session)
tDCS 40,00€ (from 2nd, next sessions)
tACS/TRNS 55,00€(1st session)
tACS/TRNS 40,00€ (from 2nd, next sessions)
TENS 55,00€
TMS*** 87,49€
TMS from 2nd session / year (for several sessions) 40,00€
NFB (Neurofeedback, training-EEG) per sessie 35,00€
Cortical Electrode Mapping 75,00€
Programmation neurostimulator**** 25,00€
Pump filling Baclofenpump***** 45,00€
The TMS treatment might also be obtained elsewhere. You could indeed start from the qEEG and then decide to look further into it like Nills said. Good luck with it.
ps. I've read some stories about brain and their T treatment on Dutch forums but i'd rather let the people with true experience there talk. The reactions where kind off very mixed. Some of them dismissed with a deanxit and rivotril(clonazepam) prescription. That would be dissapointing to fly to Europe for. Unless its a combined holiday or the treatment costs like 1000'sof dollars in the USA and you really want to try ... and see a bit of Europe. That could save you the plain ticket then (count in a longer stay)
Here's the prices from brai2n , i translated small bits
Consultation* 40,00€
Loreta qEEG** (surpluss on consult): 80,00€
HRV (hartrythm analysis), optional with Loreta + 20,00€
Spectral analysis, optional with Loreta + 20,00€
Connectivity analysis, optional with Loreta + 20,00€
tDCS 55,00€ (1st session)
tDCS 40,00€ (from 2nd, next sessions)
tACS/TRNS 55,00€(1st session)
tACS/TRNS 40,00€ (from 2nd, next sessions)
TENS 55,00€
TMS*** 87,49€
TMS from 2nd session / year (for several sessions) 40,00€
NFB (Neurofeedback, training-EEG) per sessie 35,00€
Cortical Electrode Mapping 75,00€
Programmation neurostimulator**** 25,00€
Pump filling Baclofenpump***** 45,00€
Christian78
Member
- Dec 17, 2013
- 965
- Tinnitus Since
- (Sep 2013)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- progressive tinnitus, time of expiring in next 3-6 months
Viking was there and had no improvement. I was there and doctor explained me they do help never 100% (except rare cases). There were people who got 80% improvement but they dont like to work with tinnitus because it is ungrateful and complicated disease. I will quote dr Jeanmonod who said " there is no golden bullet to cure tinnitus"
Something like 0.95% their patients have tinnitus as main reason why they ask for treatment, and never they cure it 100%.
Viking had other bigger problem with nerves damages as he nicely explained and shown on photos, and gave in detail his 2 operations on nerve and brain prior to treatment in Belgium and Switzerland.
Christian78
Member
- Dec 17, 2013
- 965
- Tinnitus Since
- (Sep 2013)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- progressive tinnitus, time of expiring in next 3-6 months
I wonder did anyone ever had benefit from bra2n clinic or it is all just selling fog to people and taking money???
I plan to go there to do treatment...
I plan to go there to do treatment...
Joan A.
Member
- Sep 16, 2015
- 49
- Tinnitus Since
- 2000/ spike 2006/ massive 2009
- Cause of Tinnitus
- unknow
me too! I would add that there is not only the problem of the costs but also of take time thaat the employer is reluctant to give me as an extras to stay away from the job at least 2 weeks!
450 euros of rTMS
40 euros for chat with clinicians (fortunately i have a lot of audiograms withous hearing loss)
2 qeeg 140 x 2 euros
270 euros the fly.... around 1000 euros to stay, sleep (it's just a figure to speech), eat, autobus, hostel....
is this clinic "effective" at least to have an hope?
Thanks all in advance
Be careful. Psilobycin increases the cross-talk between brain regions. Can't see this being good for tinnitus or other sensory deficits. Or maybe it is who knows.
http://rsif.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/11/101/20140873.full
SoulStation
Member
so I called them in february - had my meeting in july - had my TMS booked in september - and did the TMS 2 times a week for 4 weeks in October ...
I think you should take my advice I gave in my previous post and do it near your home ... first step - EEG
Thanks I will read this ... it also lower brain activity ... I have a lot of previous experience with Psylocibine, just nver when I had T ...
Joan A.
Member
- Sep 16, 2015
- 49
- Tinnitus Since
- 2000/ spike 2006/ massive 2009
- Cause of Tinnitus
- unknow
Unfortunately my docs don't do qEEG for tinnitus but only for epilepsy and others disorder. In case of positive response they don't know how to proceeed , so i always should do another eeg exam in a place where the tinnitus is considered a disease. Thanks
p.s.
Considering the poor time at my disposal and the fund necessary, i'm considering to go directly to the Sven Vanneste lab in Dallas. I did an email showing my clinical situation and waiting for a response.
An EEG will only show what you have ... wherever you do it it shows what is there. BRAIN interprets any activity as Tinnitus .. and the fact you have tinnitus and not epilepsy is the sign that a over-activity found will be your T. So I hope you can do it somewhere and maybe ask again and say you will proceed on your own accord.
Christian78
Member
- Dec 17, 2013
- 965
- Tinnitus Since
- (Sep 2013)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- progressive tinnitus, time of expiring in next 3-6 months
I spoke with them, and ask why Nills paid only little, he did not done treatments, they do Qeeg and tell you can they help or not. Somehow i found a bunch of people who paid for consultation without doing tests so somehow it seem to be money grabber but well...
I sent them my Loreta Qeeg from Switcerland and they refused and said they must do their own qeeg, that is so fishy and that doctor De Ridder (or something) dont work with them any more, but Jan Ost is a one in charge (he is medical technician). De Ridder is just on list, small letter say outside consultant.... Not fair!
I sent them my Loreta qEEG from Switcerland and it is like 3D brainmaping, and they said NOOO, it must be done in their clinic.
Christian,
I do not dare to say that the clinic is not worth it for people who don't have to travel very far. But i never heard it being a T miracle place or even have high rates of succes with T. A complex problem it remains, wether you have a brain picture of it or not... that's why i - if I can be biased a litlle bit here - never went, even living almost next to it.
But thats me, i have 2 or 3 better days a month (these better days now, used to be bad days 2-3 years ago)/ I think chronic stress and tmj have a big factor in my T. Pictures and more doc consultations would probably state the allready obvious with me.
It could be very refreshing for people still looking for cleu's and some questions about the nature, or some aggrivating factors of the T beast.
I do not dare to say that the clinic is not worth it for people who don't have to travel very far. But i never heard it being a T miracle place or even have high rates of succes with T. A complex problem it remains, wether you have a brain picture of it or not... that's why i - if I can be biased a litlle bit here - never went, even living almost next to it.
But thats me, i have 2 or 3 better days a month (these better days now, used to be bad days 2-3 years ago)/ I think chronic stress and tmj have a big factor in my T. Pictures and more doc consultations would probably state the allready obvious with me.
It could be very refreshing for people still looking for cleu's and some questions about the nature, or some aggrivating factors of the T beast.
Joan A.
Member
- Sep 16, 2015
- 49
- Tinnitus Since
- 2000/ spike 2006/ massive 2009
- Cause of Tinnitus
- unknow
@nills
Since i was a child, around 10 year age, i was at school and i felt a sort of kick in the head without migraine or other. Were kicks inside the head. After some radiological investigations, an eeg was performed showing that the alpha wave was altered but the doctors did not gave me any medications. They sayd that with time it would be passed and infact after 2 years or 3 .... completely solved. 4 years ago, i had a car accident with my friends, fortunately nothing of serious but my head crashed in front of glasses. TBI without commotion. Edema require a little drill ni the skull. In the successive days i started to notice a worsening of my tinnitus and doctors sayd that it was not related to the accident. I did some others investigations an this time they find some vascular compression not confirmed by the ABR exam....but the eeg show (not the qeeg) an increase activity of Beta waves. So the ent and neurologist suggest to start the trt brain retraining therapy with 2 maskers and some others devices at home. Ironically after 2 years i developed another tinnitus on the right side who come and go..so the doctors started to talk about depression or anxiety... SSRIs + Clonazepam... nothing... antiseizures (trobalt inlcuded) nothing...
Now forgive me for long post but i would explain that considering that i have low funds, i would understand what the brain2 clinic do for those reasons;
1) if rTMS give temporary benefits (and in literature are reported benefits after 4 or 6 weeks of continous treatment and brain2 has planned for me only 2 ) what they do after?? They sayd that don't have surgeons who do implantations!!! This is fundamental.
2) Are we the guinea pig to do statistics? payng with our money?? It sound not honestly.
Considering the time at disposal, is better to fly in Dallas where if i'm positive to the criteria, an implant could be considered or a vagus nerve stimulation. At brain2 clinic they do only investigations. They haven't surgeons who do implantations of electrodes on the auditory or non auditory cortex (please correct me if i have misunderstood).
thank you in advance for suggestions and clarifications.
Since i was a child, around 10 year age, i was at school and i felt a sort of kick in the head without migraine or other. Were kicks inside the head. After some radiological investigations, an eeg was performed showing that the alpha wave was altered but the doctors did not gave me any medications. They sayd that with time it would be passed and infact after 2 years or 3 .... completely solved. 4 years ago, i had a car accident with my friends, fortunately nothing of serious but my head crashed in front of glasses. TBI without commotion. Edema require a little drill ni the skull. In the successive days i started to notice a worsening of my tinnitus and doctors sayd that it was not related to the accident. I did some others investigations an this time they find some vascular compression not confirmed by the ABR exam....but the eeg show (not the qeeg) an increase activity of Beta waves. So the ent and neurologist suggest to start the trt brain retraining therapy with 2 maskers and some others devices at home. Ironically after 2 years i developed another tinnitus on the right side who come and go..so the doctors started to talk about depression or anxiety... SSRIs + Clonazepam... nothing... antiseizures (trobalt inlcuded) nothing...
Now forgive me for long post but i would explain that considering that i have low funds, i would understand what the brain2 clinic do for those reasons;
1) if rTMS give temporary benefits (and in literature are reported benefits after 4 or 6 weeks of continous treatment and brain2 has planned for me only 2 ) what they do after?? They sayd that don't have surgeons who do implantations!!! This is fundamental.
2) Are we the guinea pig to do statistics? payng with our money?? It sound not honestly.
Considering the time at disposal, is better to fly in Dallas where if i'm positive to the criteria, an implant could be considered or a vagus nerve stimulation. At brain2 clinic they do only investigations. They haven't surgeons who do implantations of electrodes on the auditory or non auditory cortex (please correct me if i have misunderstood).
thank you in advance for suggestions and clarifications.
anyone with knowledge of the brain can read your EEG ... they can only give you treatment options they have which are the TRT and TMS family and when you meet them in person. ... I don`t believe they help now I tried them. Maybe the other neuromodulators do.. I dont know ... De Ridder left because of better payed job options but they built the BRAIN department on his knowledge and coordination.
How many points was your EEG? ... 3d brain mapping sounds better than the one they have. They should be able to read it and go on to treatment ... but I have no trust in the ones they offer anyway. So far nothing works permanently for Tinnitus ... else we would not be here i think.
yes, if you find a place for implants I would go that way maybe ... considering if they work or not ... I don`t know much about implants.
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,576
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
I think @J. Wing had a implant from MicroTransponder in Iowa City, but I don't know how well it worked out. I think he is more on the Yuku forum. He lived close by, where I was about 4 hours way.
SoulStation
Member
Hey Joan. I too am interested in the lab at Dallas and implant options. Please let me know if you hear anything. I heard he (Sven Vanneste) was doing trials but not accepting anyone new .
Thanks and good luck
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,576
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
MicroTransponder, Inc, a medical device company based in Dallas. They had trials throughout the U.S. including Iowa City. http://www.microtransponder.com/
Christian78
Member
- Dec 17, 2013
- 965
- Tinnitus Since
- (Sep 2013)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- progressive tinnitus, time of expiring in next 3-6 months
Do you want to see my Qeeg?
My T worsen in September and last 15 days slowly, I cant sleep last 5 days.
Joan A.
Member
- Sep 16, 2015
- 49
- Tinnitus Since
- 2000/ spike 2006/ massive 2009
- Cause of Tinnitus
- unknow
I'm waiting reply, i will update but if they will accept me, i would be able to fly only in the next year due to job.
Me too, but considering that the pharmacological attempts had failed on me, according wiht my neurologist i would go for neuromodulation that seem more promising (i hope).
thx all
latest meds attempt: lamictal 25 x 2 up to 50x2 + 0,50 clonazepam up to 1mg. Tapering off
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,576
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
Violetdusk
Member
- Nov 25, 2016
- 31
- Tinnitus Since
- September 2005
- Cause of Tinnitus
- 2005 Very loud rock concert. 2018 Worsened considerably.
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