Choice of Stem Cells

[Artemis2K]

I believe StemCells21 injects in the back of the ear, or at least that's how they did in the past, but I could be wrong. And I believe someone said above that a doctor at Innate Healthcare said he would feel comfortable going into the back of the ear.

Please let us know their response to you. I quickly looked on their website and didn't see anything about the ears/hearing loss, but maybe they will get back to you and share otherwise.

I do believe the best injection scenario is somewhere around or in the ear as well as IV.

Thank you.

The contact form had a selection option of "Other" when asking what the desired treatment was for, so I am hoping for a good sign. Maybe I can form some sort of arrangement with them by using sources that suggest plausibility of benefit to where they'd be comfortable taking the chance.

I will post their response on Monday if they do so.

 

[Nick47]

I'm on an antidepressant that's helping me ignore it a bit... and not get so upse

@IndyMLVC, you mind me asking which antidepressant?

 

[ErikaS]

The contact form had a selection option of "Other" when asking what the desired treatment was for, so I am hoping for a good sign. Maybe I can form some sort of arrangement with them by using sources that suggest plausibility of benefit to where they'd be comfortable taking the chance.

I will post their response on Monday if they do so.

Sounds good. I'm glad you're looking into this.

We're very limited here on Tinnitus Talk on the extent that stem cells have helped people. Meanwhile, I have watched 2 or more testimonial videos of stem cell use elsewhere on the body (usually joint or pain location) and the patient in the video will nonchalantly say something like "oh and another thing I wasn't expecting but nice surprise, the ringing in my right ear that I had for so long significantly decreased/went away". So, in my opinion, it's definitely worth looking into and considering, especially with the conventional medical world not showing anything coming for quite some time, outside of Dr. Shore's device for tinnitus.

 

[Artemis2K]

Sounds good. I'm glad you're looking into this.

We're very limited here on Tinnitus Talk on the extent that stem cells have helped people. Meanwhile, I have watched 2 or more testimonial videos of stem cell use elsewhere on the body (usually joint or pain location) and the patient in the video will nonchalantly say something like "oh and another thing I wasn't expecting but nice surprise, the ringing in my right ear that I had for so long significantly decreased/went away". So, in my opinion, it's definitely worth looking into and considering, especially with the conventional medical world not showing anything coming for quite some time, outside of Dr. Shore's device for tinnitus.

The fact that so many people have mentioned tinnitus being reduced or eliminated as a byproduct is incredibly fascinating and I do hope I will one day be able to investigate this myself. I just hope it's not going to cost anything beyond $10,000. That's all I'd be able to afford without making quality of life sacrifices.

Sigh. Wish stem cell therapy was more popular so that it wasn't as expensive.

I also wonder how stem cells would supposedly turn into the right components. Can they even turn into hair cells?

 

[ErikaS]

The fact that so many people have mentioned tinnitus being reduced or eliminated as a byproduct is incredibly fascinating and I do hope I will one day be able to investigate this myself. I just hope it's not going to cost anything beyond $10,000. That's all I'd be able to afford without making quality of life sacrifices.

Sigh. Wish stem cell therapy was more popular so that it wasn't as expensive.

I also wonder how stem cells would supposedly turn into the right components. Can they even turn into hair cells?

Just an FYI, some clinics offer credit cards like CareCredit, I know Advanced Rejuvenation has an offer with them of 18 months no interest. I feel like the Arizona clinic offers different options, too.

 

[Artemis2K]

Just an FYI, some clinics offer credit cards like CareCredit, I know Advanced Rejuvenation has an offer with them of 18 months no interest. I feel like the Arizona clinic offers different options, too.

If I manage to be able to do this, especially at the extent that I wish, I will be sure to post results of my hearing tests. I will especially be particularly using a popular app that has surprisingly matched official ones quite well for me. My headphones are very good. I would likely even post results weekly or daily on a thread if people prefer.

I'll do whatever it takes to do this if I can save/budget enough.

 

[IndyMLVC]

@IndyMLVC, you mind me asking which antidepressant?

Lithium. I'm not bipolar but both my psych and therapist said they've seen good things with it. And my therapist is pro anything that will help me but, in general, is against psychopharmacology. My side effects on it are being managed and I've seen a marked difference in my mood, probably for the first time since this terror began. My tinnitus is certainly still there but it's affecting my overall mental health less.

I'm convinced all of this started from an awful SSRI that I was on that completely screwed up my brain.

 

[Nick47]

I'm convinced all of this started from an awful SSRI that I was on that completely screwed up my brain.

@IndyMLVC, yes, it dumbfounds me how doctors prescribe SSRIs for tinnitus but not other medications. Increasing Serotonin in general is bad for tinnitus in many cases. I'm pleased Lithium helps you.

 

[James Connelly]

The fact that so many people have mentioned tinnitus being reduced or eliminated as a byproduct is incredibly fascinating and I do hope I will one day be able to investigate this myself. I just hope it's not going to cost anything beyond $10,000. That's all I'd be able to afford without making quality of life sacrifices.

Sigh. Wish stem cell therapy was more popular so that it wasn't as expensive.

I also wonder how stem cells would supposedly turn into the right components. Can they even turn into hair cells?

The clinic that you mentioned, Neogenix, takes stem cells from your own body, so it's slightly different to how Innate Healthcare & StemCells21 do it.

You can get 300 million stem cells at Innate Healthcare (Arizona) for $11,500. I've spoken with the doctor and he seems pretty legit. He's not had many hearing related patients but he said he'd inject into the back of the ear as well as intranasally.

 

[Artemis2K]

The clinic that you mentioned, Neogenix, takes stem cells from your own body, so it's slightly different to how Innate Healthcare & StemCells21 do it.

You can get 300 million stem cells at Innate Healthcare (Arizona) for $11,500. I've spoken with the doctor and he seems pretty legit. He's not had many hearing related patients but he said he'd inject into the back of the ear as well as intranasally.

That's great, but I live in South Carolina. I don't know if I'd be able to travel that far. It's good to have more options.

By the way, for anyone that does in fact do stem cells injections: The hearing test app by e-audio-logia on the Google Play store is rather good. I have used the free version, and it's great, but I do prefer the paid version. These would be great apps to keep track of progress if it does occur.

EDIT:

The Charlotte clinic won't do it. They try to stick to muscle-skeletal issues to avoid being in trouble with FDA, sadly.

 

[CricketEars]

I'm convinced all of this started from an awful SSRI that I was on that completely screwed up my brain.

May I ask which one? I've had my own suspicions about this as well.

 

[IndyMLVC]

May I ask which one? I've had my own suspicions about this as well.

Effexor. It's one of the worst ones. The brain zaps and dizzy spells that I got coming off of that medication were next level. Hell, even if I missed a SINGLE dose, the side effects were awful. I had been on it for about 4-5 years when I got off of it and I stupidly did it without a doctor's help. Even though it was relatively well done (or so the doctor told me afterwards), it could still have been user error, for which I blame myself every day for. But, we'll never know. All I know is that I woke up one morning and I felt like there was a hole in my ear and the tinnitus/hearing loss has been there ever since. Only in 1 ear. I would give *ANYTHING* to change it back.

 

[Artemis2K]

If anyone is willing to help me evaluate the legal feasibility and find places that would be willing to do standalone IGF-1 intratympanic treatments, I would appreciate it.

According to what I have researched, IGF-1 is approved by the FDA, which would make off-label use possible. The problem is that it's illegal for sports use and has a slight risk of inducing type 2 diabetes if used too much as a form of continuous long-term treatment. This is what I've gathered from what I've read, but other perspectives would be appreciated.

Personally, if it's legally feasible, I am willing to take that risk, because it would be at such a small dose and would not be a regular thing at all. In addition, the scientific papers in relation to the cochlea and IGF-1 have made this very compelling. So, if we can see whether or not these American clinics, who should likely be far more knowledgeable about the risks of IGF-1, would be willing to discuss and try this, that would be wonderful.

I am writing this request here since people here are already discussing a lot of possible clinics for Stem Cells and PRP injections, although maybe it would be better in a PRP thread. Not sure.

IGF-1 is in PRP, but the amount of it varies per person, and of course there are the issues of making sure intratympanic injections get everything in the right place. I have been hoping standalone IGF-1 could solve a lot of these issues, as well as the cost, because it may actually cost $500 per shot, which sounds like a lot better deal compared to Stem Cells and PRP if it works, since it's be more potent and supposedly less expensive.

Update:

A few things that I have picked up from research (with the help of ChatGPT). There are about 10 studies that show effectiveness of standalone IGF-1 that mention the dosage used. On average, they're presumably 150 micrograms total from three shots. This dosage amount is considered safe, but it's still not naturally produced IGF-1. The potential cost is still unknown, but may be between $500-$2000. The PRP equivalent that would likely have 150 micrograms of natural IGF-1 would be 150 mL, which would likely be on average $6,000.

I would prefer IGF-1 and PRP because there's more publications of their effectiveness for the cochlea, as opposed to stem cells, and yet the people that did PRP for older injuries have not reported good results.

 

[SmallRonnie]

StemCells21 added back their page on tinnitus. Interesting to note that they say they will sometimes do injections into the ear now.

I wonder if they had more patients there recently for tinnitus. Would be great to hear from them if they did. I wish it wasn't so mad expensive.

 

[gameover]

I've been following a lot of the talk here that @attheedgeofscience, @SmallRonnie, and a few others have dove into, and am scheduling an appointment with Innate Healthcare for early 2023.

Tentatively I'm looking at doing 1.2 billion cells (quoted at $26,000 USD) IV, Intranasal, Behind the Ear Injection (all UMSC), as well as exosome drops in the ear.

@Karj, any updates?

 

[gameover]

@Karj, any updates?

I guess none. Kinda sad someone posts how they are preparing for a procedure, then nothing. Well, maybe he did not survive it, who knows. Or maybe it made things worse? Hard to imagine that if the outcome was successful, the person would not post an update.

 

[SmallRonnie]

I guess none. Kinda sad someone posts how they are preparing for a procedure, then nothing. Well, maybe he did not survive it, who knows. Or maybe it made things worse? Hard to imagine that if the outcome was successful, the person would not post an update.

I am 95% positive I am going to get stem cell treatment sometime in the next few months so at least that will be one new story to observe. It does usually take almost 6-8 months for the nerves to heal though.

 

[scotty03874]

I am 95% positive I am going to get stem cell treatment sometime in the next few months so at least that will be one new story to observe. It does usually take almost 6-8 months for the nerves to heal though.

Where will you get it done?

 

[SmallRonnie]

Where will you get it done?

I'm trying to make an appointment with Regenamex in Mexico. I heard some good things about them. Ronnie Coleman goes there.

They're one of the cheaper ones too. They are very bad at responding to emails though. I'll have to just call them.

If I can't manage that, then I'll try probably StemCells21, even though it's very expensive compared to others.

I just really want to get something soon because my sleep is getting disturbed too much by my tinnitus.

EDIT:

I'm actually looking into Dream Body in Mexico now too.

The clinics in Mexico are more guaranteed to have actual MSCs compared to clinics who claim to have them in the US.

MSC is also much more effective than bone marrow cells.

 

[Ctw]

I'm trying to make an appointment with Regenamex in Mexico. I heard some good things about them. Ronnie Coleman goes there.

They're one of the cheaper ones too. They are very bad at responding to emails though. I'll have to just call them.

If I can't manage that, then I'll try probably StemCells21, even though it's very expensive compared to others.

I just really want to get something soon because my sleep is getting disturbed too much by my tinnitus.

EDIT:

I'm actually looking into Dream Body in Mexico now too.

The clinics in Mexico are more guaranteed to have actual MSCs compared to clinics who claim to have them in the US.

MSC is also much more effective than bone marrow cells.

What's the cost?

 

[SmallRonnie]

What's the cost?

You can see prices for Dream Body here, and for Regenamex here.

I think it's actually good value, although you might find cheaper places.

The key piece is that they use stem cells that come from the umbilical cord which is magnitudes more effective than stem cells from bone marrow or adipose.

You can only legally get these types of cells outside of the US so there are many clinics in Mexico.

I'm still at the early stages of doing research on this clinic (Dream Body) but I like the look of it so far.

 

[ErikaS]

You can see prices for Dream Body here, and for Regenamex here.

I think it's actually good value, although you might find cheaper places.

The key piece is that they use stem cells that come from the umbilical cord which is magnitudes more effective than stem cells from bone marrow or adipose.

You can only legally get these types of cells outside of the US so there are many clinics in Mexico.

I'm still at the early stages of doing research on this clinic (Dream Body) but I like the look of it so far.

I hope you find comfort in choosing one of the clinics! Would the stem cells be given via IV or in/around the ear?

 

[SmallRonnie]

I hope you find comfort in choosing one of the clinics! Would the stem cells be given via IV or in/around the ear?

Thanks! Even if the stem cells don't help quieten my tinnitus, all of the other health benefits will be welcome anyway.

They mostly do IV. Most also do intrathecal for certain issues and local injections for hands, feet, knees and other body parts so maybe they would do local injections around the ear but most usually don't. I'm not sure if that would be better but it probably would be?

Still, people have had good results for tinnitus with only IV.

I would be optimistic that it will help me since my tinnitus is caused by loud noise.

 

[Vega]

Thanks! Even if the stem cells don't help quieten my tinnitus, all of the other health benefits will be welcome anyway.

They mostly do IV. Most also do intrathecal for certain issues and local injections for hands, feet, knees and other body parts so maybe they would do local injections around the ear but most usually don't. I'm not sure if that would be better but it probably would be?

Still, people have had good results for tinnitus with only IV.

I would be optimistic that it will help me since my tinnitus is caused by loud noise.

I would be really interested in how you get on with this treatment. Please post on here if you do go ahead with it. So many people say that they are going to try different treatments but we never hear from them again.

 

[SmallRonnie]

I would be really interested in how you get on with this treatment. Please post on here if you do go ahead with it. So many people say that they are going to try different treatments but we never hear from them again.

I will update again for sure. It will probably be at least a couple months before I do go get it done and then it would take 6 to 8 months more to see any benefits, if there even will be any.

I've been wanting to do this for several months now but I really am just going to go do it now.

I'm pretty sure if I do get some relief, then it will be because of this treatment since I've had pretty constant tinnitus now for almost 2 years.

Even a small benefit would be great for me.

Planning on contacting a clinic next week.

From reading some other posts here, I've heard of at least 4 or 5 people who did have some good results from stem cell treatment for tinnitus but lots of others had no benefit.

There are lots of varying factors though like what type of stem cells you get, how many, route of administration, your age, how you got tinnitus etc.

I will update here though for sure.

 

[lcj]

I'm actually looking into Dream Body in Mexico now too.

You might be interested to look into a person by the name of John Miller who really pushed Dream Body Clinic. This clinic was his top recommendation in a list of international clinics. If you google him, he's also written some books on stem cell treatments. He was also treated at this clinic two times I believe (the last time I know for sure because he posted to the now-defunct Stem Cells 101 Facebook group right after his last treatment). He died of a stroke around 3 weeks after that post. I can't prove that the stroke was in any way linked to his treatment, but I have my reservations about Mexican stem cell clinics and COFEPRIS, the regulatory governing body that evaluates and approves the clinics and labs. As I recall, most people in that Facebook group who went to Dream Body Clinic seemed to report good outcomes, but a few reported negative effects.

 

[SmallRonnie]

You might be interested to look into a person by the name of John Miller who really pushed Dream Body Clinic. This clinic was his top recommendation in a list of international clinics. If you google him, he's also written some books on stem cell treatments. He was also treated at this clinic two times I believe (the last time I know for sure because he posted to the now-defunct Stem Cells 101 Facebook group right after his last treatment). He died of a stroke around 3 weeks after that post. I can't prove that the stroke was in any way linked to his treatment, but I have my reservations about Mexican stem cell clinics and COFEPRIS, the regulatory governing body that evaluates and approves the clinics and labs. As I recall, most people in that Facebook group who went to Dream Body Clinic seemed to report good outcomes, but a few reported negative effects.

Thanks for the information. I have heard that COFEPRIS are not that strict with their regulations from other sources too. I guess it's just a trade off between quality, risk and price.

I have read on other stem cell forums that some people have also had success with Dream Body and many other clinics in Mexico, Panama and the Cayman Islands. Some people have said they received equal benefit from clinics in Mexico as apposed to clinics in Panama; and the Mexican ones are usually cheaper.

Cheaper would lead one to believe that quality is lower but it seems to not always be the case. Having a cheaper option makes getting much higher doses more financially viable. My opinion is higher doses are one of the most important factors if the cell quality is equal. That and also if the clinic is able to properly do local guided injections if that is what is required for the specific issue.

At least in Mexico/Panama/Cayman Islands/Thailand, you know you can get actual MSC rather than some fake or illegal ones from the US.

I'm very eager to get this treatment anyway. Hopefully I will make some progress on making an appointment next week.

 

[gameover]

At least in Mexico/Panama/Cayman Islands/Thailand, you know you can get actual MSC rather than some fake or illegal ones from the US.

But... do you really know that? What's stopping them from giving you some placebo?

 

[SmallRonnie]

But... do you really know that? What's stopping them from giving you some placebo?

I guess that could possibly happen. They wouldn't ever get return customers if they did this though but maybe some clinics do this. Lots of people tend to get several doses because sometimes they get a small benefit and keep going back for more until they get enough benefit.

I have read reviews of this clinic going back several years and lots of people have said they had success with it. Maybe every single one of them is a shill but that doesn't seem likely.

The markup is also probably very high on the treatment so it's probably not even worth it to give people placebo.

I had the same thoughts before but I've read so many reviews of different clinics and most of the better known ones have lots of reviews with many different people who have had good results for various different issues.

I think the chance of them just giving a placebo is pretty low. I feel like the doctors would not want to act in such an unethical way but maybe I'm being too naive. They are actually somewhat regulated too, even if its not as strict as in the United States.

I'm gonna take the risk on it anyway. There's probably a higher risk of having some kind of complications during the treatment which can happen sometimes but I think it's rare or only happens with certain clinics. If the clinic is legit, then it's generally a very safe procedure.

 

[tiniturk]

Any update, @SmallRonnie?