Daniel Thor: A Place for My Weird Theories on Life

[danielthor]

I was thinking about death a lot today, and to me I just can't imagine when you die and then what? Nothing? Why do we have consciousness when it could have been anyone else in the body? Why I or us? There has to be something else.

I think the I is essentially an illusion. There's not a thing, one single entity, inside of us that's looking through our eyes and experiencing the world. What's inside of us is more likely this eternal void of consciousness, that's going through all of us, that has been there since forever and will be there long after the entire universe is destroyed. You can call this the spirit, or god. God is experiencing itself, the entire universe in all of its infinite forms of which right now our current incarnation is just one. I think we're going to be cycling through an eternal chain of being for ever and ever, experiencing everything, and if we're lucky; a life without tinnitus and other horrible brain-disorders.

I keep saying how I wish I could be put in a coma or in a freezing-tank for a decade and have them wake me when the cure is ready, but that's kinda what death and reincarnation is like, because at some point you're probably going to be born into an era where there's finally a cure for tinnitus. In this particular reincarnation tinnitus might not even be your issue, but you'll have something else, and there will be a cure for that.

I really think this is true, and I hope I'm right because then I wouldn't be so upset about my life. I'm okay with having this one lifetime destroyed by chronic illness, only as long as I get another one after this one. Unfair is not fucking me up with a shitty situation and a hundred thousand horrible ailments. Unfair is making it the only experience I get to have ever.

 

[Marshall]

I believe there's definitely a great beyond. I've witnessed supernatural events in my life and paranormal activity. No joke. Being totally honest here. One time, I saw a picture fly off the wall and shatter. In another room, about 10 feet away, a light came unscrewed from the ceiling at the same exact time; it hung there, just dangling. No plausible explanation. The picture that came off the wall was Israel's Temple Mount. And oddly, I was talking to a friend at work about the Temple Mount the day prior. A week later, the UNESCO made a very important decision about the Temple Mount, saying it belonged to Islam and not Judaism, or something like that.

I've heard voices in the same house before and I know people in life who've seen full-body apparitions. These people wouldn't lie. So ya, I do believe in an afterlife and I think ghosts pretty much prove God's existence. The thought of suicide for me is terrifying because you don't know what will happen. And if there is a hell and you wind-up there, I wouldn't doubt for a second that your tinnitus/hyperacusis would go there with you. Too scary of a chance to take.

I've experienced extremely coincidental situations that are like a 1 and a million shot. My grandfather's name was Salvador Rodriguez. And the last thing my grandmother said to me on her deathbed was your Papa Salvador is watching over you. He used to give me blessings when I was young all the time. A great man. And a couple days after that I met my best friend to this day. And you know what his name is? Guess. Also he got stationed in Germany. And I got orders 6 months later. It's like we are each other's light. We've been through a lot in the world together. I have other coincidental stories but this one gives me faith when I'm in doubt.

 

[danielthor]

 

[danielthor]

 

[ZFire]

The realist in me says nothingness occurs after death. It will be just like how it was before we were born. I'm not into reincarnation or afterlife stuff, but I won't deny there's some interesting theories out there.

What's inside of us is more likely this eternal void of consciousness, that's going through all of us, that has been there since forever and will be there long after the entire universe is destroyed. You can call this the spirit, or god. God is experiencing itself, the entire universe in all of its infinite forms of which right now our current incarnation is just one. I think we're going to be cycling through an eternal chain of being for ever and ever, experiencing everything, and if we're lucky; a life without tinnitus and other horrible brain-disorders.

Are you familiar with the closed loop universe theory? This part of your post shares a lot of similarities with the theory, but not exactly.

 

[danielthor]

In a sense, the kind of reincarnation that I'm talking about isn't actually a reincarnation, because in order to be reincarnated you have to actually exist in the first place. I, as a self (a person), was never more than a cumulation of different assignments given to me by my parents and society. I was told who I was and I believed it, took it in and made an identity out of it. I became like a snowball of illusions, rolling down the hill of life, taking in more and more illusions about myself. At the end of the hill is a wall of death, and crashing into this wall will be the end of my ball. Snow is still there though, and maybe new snowballs can be made. A new illusion will take hold, one that will feel just as real as this one.

 

[danielthor]

Are you familiar with the closed loop universe theory? This part of your post shares a lot of similarities with the theory, but not exactly.

No, but sounds interesting! Any good videos on it?

 

[danielthor]

"Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking inside the radio for the announcer" - Nassim Haramein

And the announcer will undoubtetly find its way through a new and different radio.

 

[Chinmoku]

In a sense, the kind of reincarnation that I'm talking about isn't actually a reincarnation, because in order to be reincarnated you have to actually exist in the first place. I, as a self (a person), was never more than a cumulation of different assignments given to me by my parents and society. I was told who I was and I believed it, took it in and made an identity out of it. I became like a snowball of illusions, rolling down the hill of life, taking in more and more illusions about myself. At the end of the hill is a wall of death, and crashing into this wall will be the end of my ball. Snow is still there though, and maybe new snowballs can be made. A new illusion will take hold, one that will feel just as real as this one.

This is very close to Buddhism. They talk about rebirth rather than reincarnation. There is no indestructible ego that migrates from body to body. Rather, the elements and consciousness (the Skandas) recombine to give birth to new beings retaining some elements of the old ones but not having the same "soul". The point of Buddhism is to step out of this cycle, into the ineffable nirvana, which in not a merge of the individual soul with God/Brahma as the Hindu believe. However, some beings that are one step away from entering nirvana decide to stay in the cycle to help other beings: these are the heroic bodhisattvas. Note: Buddhism was born partly as a protest against Hinduism and the class system.

@Jerad, eternal hell is an invention of the church (Augustine in particular and the Roman emperors, who loved to control people by fear. Centuries later Dante cemented this view). Church fathers like St Gregory of Nyssa, St Clement and many others were universalists and believed in universal salvation after a proportionate period of purification and espiation that was never meant to be eternal. The Bible, when correctly translated, has no eternal hell. You have Sheol, Gehenna and Tartarus. None of them is eternal for humans. Hell comes from Hel of Norse mythology. Eternal hell was added later by the church as a controlling mechanism.

 

[Steph1710]

I think ghosts pretty much prove God's existence.

I'm pretty sure in the New Testament it mentions that once someone dies they will never do anything under the sun again. Meaning that no spirits live on earth. I'm not even sure it mentions "ghosts" in the way we mention them?

 

[Jerad]

I'm pretty sure in the New Testament it mentions that once someone dies they will never do anything under the sun again. Meaning that no spirits live on earth. I'm not even sure it mentions "ghosts" in the way we mention them?

That could be true. I personally think "ghosts" are probably nonhuman spirits. I have encountered what are known as "doppelgänger" spirits. They are known to mimic or pretend to be someone else. I knew that to be the case because the voices heard in the house were from people still living. My mom heard me talking and my brother, too, when we weren't even there. And I myself heard my mom's voice when she wasn't there. And another friend had a similar experience when visiting. One time, and this was a long time back, my mom left for work and said goodbye. She was out the door and getting in her car when her goodbye phrase repeated itself verbatim. It was probably about 20-30 seconds after she said it. The voice mimicked it exactly.

 

[Jerad]

@Jerad, eternal hell is an invention of the church (Augustine in particular and the Roman emperors, who loved to control people by fear. Centuries later Dante cemented this view). Church fathers like St Gregory of Nyssa, St Clement and many others were universalists and believed in universal salvation after a proportionate period of purification and espiation that was never meant to be eternal. The Bible, when correctly translated, has no eternal hell. You have Sheol, Gehenna and Tartarus. None of them is eternal for humans. Hell comes from Hel of Norse mythology. Eternal hell was added later by the church as a controlling mechanism.

@Chinmoku, that's interesting. For the sake of humanity, I hope that's true. If "hell" is real, let's hope that it's empty or will be by a certain point. If there's somehow still hope for lost souls, those who wind-up in hell, then that's more like purgatory.

However, what would determine the time of their sentence? If retribution is temporary and souls can be absolved, what must they go through to achieve such a thing? Let's suppose that one's punishment is equal to their time on earth; that the wages of sin follows that criteria. Who knows. They live 80 years and then suffer in hell for 80. That's too much. I, personally, wouldn't want to even go there for 1 day, let alone 29,200 days, which is somewhere around 80 years on an earthly calendar.

Can you imagine what hell would be like? Take that one moment from your life; the worst moment; that moment where anxiety, fear, and sadness reached fever-pitch levels; where your heart just sank beyond recognition; where you felt more dead than you ever have in life; where the darkness consumed your mortal soul and fleshed-out things immortal... terrible things. Now, freeze that moment for all eternity — or for the time you're stuck in hell. And you're imprisoned to that moment forevermore, its endless loop of pain and sadness. I would venture to say it's even a lot worse than "that earthly moment," as nothing on earth could compare.

I believe in the gospels and in Christ's divinity. I believe he was who he said he was. Now, I honestly wish there was no hell. When people die that aren't saved, it would be nice if they would just cease to exist rather than continue to exist with eternal separation from God. Some believe that.

It's just too big of a risk to gamble, though. Banking on hell being temporary or not existing at all is too scary for me.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

I'm pretty sure in the New Testament it mentions that once someone dies they will never do anything under the sun again. Meaning that no spirits live on earth. I'm not even sure it mentions "ghosts" in the way we mention them?

Woah didn't know you read the Bible.

 

[ZFire]

No, but sounds interesting! Any good videos on it?

Sorry for the late reply. I needed to refresh my memory on this theory because I remember reading about it in a hardcore atheist forum a long time ago.

The essence of loop theory is that we relive our lives over and over again. We live in a looped universe where death is simply a state of primordial unconsciousness until the cycle runs its course(Big Crunch) and starts anew (Big Bang). We'll continue to live essentially the same lives ad infinitum, though with deviations as to fulfill all possible outcomes or maybe not.

Without consciousness, time becomes redundant until it reaches one, so we'll die and seemingly "immediately" come back when in reality a billions and billions of years have passed.

You may find this theory grim AF because it would mean some people are doomed to repeat miserable lives over and over again. It's just a theory and there's a lot back and forth debate over some of its conclusions like whether the loop will play out exactly identical to previous iterations. I find it interesting to think about regardless, but still would prefer nothingness over it.

I suppose this 12 min video should provide a general overview of the theory. There is also this short article
Quick summary:
-The universe is seen as cyclic, where one universe comes into existence with the Big Bang, has its period of existence and then comes to end with the Big Crunch. The cycle repeats infinitely.

-The theory also claims since the cycles repeat, nothing ever really changes. This means time and movement are an illusion. The multiverse is predetermined and predestined to unfold the same way each time due to the fact it is closed system that is unchanging and eternal.

-Is there life after death? Yes, every moment that has happen will happen again. We are a configuration of atoms and molecules existing in a looped universe ad infinitum and therefore will be recreated at some point in other timelines upon the death and rebirth of this current universe, having no recollection of previous cycles but the most repeated occurrences stored as deja vu as evidence of prior existences.

Objections to Loop theory:
1) A cyclic model being correct doesn't imply that each successive universe is identical to the previous one. The very issue that makes knowing what happened before the Big Bang inobservable, also makes it impossible to determine if the universe before this (if it does exist), was identical, or entirely different.

2) Even if the universe was cyclic, and even if these cycles were identical (two very big ifs), the "you" in each of these universes wouldn't be "you" in any meaningful way, anyway. Even if, for whatever reason, you were to simultaneously believe in souls and in a cyclic universe, there's no reason at all each of the eventual copies of you arising from pressumably highly deterministic physics would also share the same "soul". The phenomenon of deja vu is seen as evidence of prior existences for proponents of loop theory .

3) Loop theory heavily relies on the assumption that the Big Crunch is the envitable end of the universe. The current evidence doesn't necessarily oppose the idea that universe will contract, but it doesn't really support it either. What we do know though is that the universe is still expanding at a rapid rate. There are also other more plausible hypothesis for the fate of the universe (Heat death , Big Rip).

 

[Steph1710]

Woah didn't know you read the Bible.

Yeah, I've read the Bible. It's pretty interesting. I mean I'm guessing most historians have read the Bible.

After all, whether we believe in it or not, it's still a massive part of our history. If we don't know it, or at least parts of it, we can never truly understand the minds' of our ancestors - religion once encompassed everything, even if it doesn't now.

Ya get me.

 

[Steph1710]

That could be true. I personally think "ghosts" are probably nonhuman spirits. I have encountered what are known as "doppelgänger" spirits. They are known to mimic or pretend to be someone else. I knew that to be the case because the voices heard in the house were from people still living. My mom heard me talking and my brother, too, when we weren't even there. And I myself heard my mom's voice when she wasn't there. And another friend had a similar experience when visiting. One time, and this was a long time back, my mom left for work and said goodbye. She was out the door and getting in her car when her goodbye phrase repeated itself verbatim. It was probably about 20-30 seconds after she said it. The voice mimicked it exactly.

This is so very interesting to me. I too have had my own encounters with otherworldly "things" over the years, such as voices mimicked, seen objects moved or knocked over etc.

And you are right. The Bible mentions "ghosts" as being not the spirits of those who once lived on earth, but rather evil entities that do not belong on here or in heaven.
The first time I witnessed something was when I was 10. My sister was with me too. We watched a chair literally slide out from under the table, then slide back in again. The house was built in 1645 - so it was old. My sister was very freaked out. She is a couple of years younger than me. We ran upstairs and told our parents who instantly dismissed us, or the idea of ghosts. We still talk about it to this day because we know what we saw.

Anyway, this next story didn't happen to me personally, but it happened to my best friend at the time and her family.

So, my friends' mum and dad bought a very, very old cottage on top of hill in the countryside. The cottage was build around 1580 - so a lot of history there. After the first few days of moving in, all they could hear was the distance crying of a child at night. My friends mum being disturbed by the sound decided to organise a walk round the wooded area near the house and the surrounding fields in case a child was lost. They didn't find any child but the crying at night continued. Eventually, they rang the police as they were convinced a child was out there. The police came round and conducted a search. They never found anything but did end up getting a team to come and search the well in the garden outside their house because the officers were convinced that's were the sound was coming from.

Needless to say, the family put the house straight back up for sale.

 

[Chinmoku]

It's just too big of a risk to gamble, though. Banking on hell being temporary or not existing at all is too scary for me.

But that's precisely what the people who imposed this eternal hell idea wanted. There are very solid arguments against it. I'm not just talking about hoping Hell is empty, a la von Balthasar , but also about a correct translation and interpretation of the bible.
There are three interesting sequential articles, among many others, here and here and here for a nuanced discussion that digs deep into translation errors, inconsistencies and socio-historical factors that led to the doctrine of Eternal hell. But if you look for Christian universalism there is much more. Agreed that even a temporary hell would be scary, but isn't that what we are experiencing now?

 

[Jerad]

This is so very interesting to me. I too have had my own encounters with otherworldly "things" over the years, such as voices mimicked, seen objects moved or knocked over etc.

And you are right. The Bible mentions "ghosts" as being not the spirits of those who once lived on earth, but rather evil entities that do not belong on here or in heaven.
The first time I witnessed something was when I was 10. My sister was with me too. We watched a chair literally slide out from under the table, then slide back in again. The house was built in 1645 - so it was old. My sister was very freaked out. She is a couple of years younger than me. We ran upstairs and told our parents who instantly dismissed us, or the idea of ghosts. We still talk about it to this day because we know what we saw.

Anyway, this next story didn't happen to me personally, but it happened to my best friend at the time and her family.

So, my friends' mum and dad bought a very, very old cottage on top of hill in the countryside. The cottage was build around 1580 - so a lot of history there. After the first few days of moving in, all they could hear was the distance crying of a child at night. My friends mum being disturbed by the sound decided to organise a walk round the wooded area near the house and the surrounding fields in case a child was lost. They didn't find any child but the crying at night continued. Eventually, they rang the police as they were convinced a child was out there. The police came round and conducted a search. They never found anything but did end up getting a team to come and search the well in the garden outside their house because the officers were convinced that's were the sound was coming from.

Needless to say, the family put the house straight back up for sale.

@Steph1710, that's all very interesting. Your testimony about the sliding chair is a profound personal story, too. It was at that moment your sister and you realized there is more to life than meets the eye; that something lies beyond.

There are so many stories out there of similar happenings. Too many to dismiss, I feel. I'm actually surprised that science doesn't take more interest in the paranormal because there's a lot of measurable evidence for it. But it often defies reason from an existential standpoint, especially for those who want everything to be explainable without an ether realm, so I think it's just ignored, or dismissed, like the case of your parents. That unwillingness to believe might spring from the discomfort that comes with such a notion — that such beliefs could be true, unsettling like they are. Or maybe preconceived ideas about reality govern their thinking. Some people are not openminded about this. My dad is that way.

And the story about the child crying at night, that's classic activity. I've read about a lot of people experiencing similar events. Eerie indeed.

I experienced a picture flying off the wall and shattering, and it was a picture Israel's Temple Mount. I was talking to a friend about the Temple Mount on the day prior. The same time the picture fell, a light fixture in another room came unscrewed and was hanging. I took video of the incident.

Besides the voices encountered, I've also experienced things that I swear weren't dreams, as they were so real, but I can't be sure. A couple times, something laid hands on me or was strangling me, but I don't know for sure if it was real. It sure felt it. I even heard a voice one time during the strangling, "Why do you lead this miserable life of yours?" It was a raspy, deep voice.

My mom had seen full-body apparitions at her childhood home and two other locations. My stepdad at the time saw the same spirit before, too.

When my mom was a kid, her grandfather passed from a heart condition. He was at the hospital. She was at home. At the exact time of his death, she heard his voice call down from upstairs, "Margie, come up here." The dog heard it, too, and barked. She didn't go up, though; was too afraid. I always wonder what she would've seen had she gone up.

 

[Jerad]

But that's precisely what the people who imposed this eternal hell idea wanted. There are very solid arguments against it. I'm not just talking about hoping Hell is empty, a la von Balthasar , but also about a correct translation and interpretation of the bible.
There are three interesting sequential articles, among many others, here and here and here for a nuanced discussion that digs deep into translation errors, inconsistencies and socio-historical factors that led to the doctrine of Eternal hell. But if you look for Christian universalism there is much more. Agreed that even a temporary hell would be scary, but isn't that what we are experiencing now?

@Chinmoku, thanks for sharing. I appreciate it. Very interesting. I am going to check those out. I, as would many, would love for the eternal hell concept to be untrue.

Many of us are currently in a hell, but there are different levels of hell. As sufferers of these conditions know, they can always get worse. So the first "hell" may seem like heaven in hindsight. When my roller coaster ride started 8 months ago, I thought I hit hell's most fiery depths. Now, I realize that was heaven compared to my current predicament. If I could go back to just that, I'd consider myself cured. But my current situation — bad as it is — could also get worse if I'm not careful. And I'd wish I could go back to where I'm at in this present moment. So it's evil how these conditions have no thresholds or cutoffs. I mean, truly diabolical stuff.

But I'm watching Alien 2 right now in silence, just captions. Tinnitus is bothering me a lot. But if I was in the hell of all hells, I wouldn't be able to even do that. So it can always be worse. And the afterlife version of hell would certainly be so. I think in that place you'd have absolutely zero joy or rest — 100% blackness.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

Yeah, I've read the Bible. It's pretty interesting. I mean I'm guessing most historians have read the Bible.

After all, whether we believe in it or not, it's still a massive part of our history. If we don't know it, or at least parts of it, we can never truly understand the minds' of our ancestors - religion once encompassed everything, even if it doesn't now.

Ya get me.

Yeah I get you. I have tried to read it multiple times but never have made it through lol.

 

[danielthor]

@ZFire, thanks! Extremely interesting, and somewhat comforting.

Honestly, I think I would actually prefer to go through endless loops of this here life, instead of the nothingness, simply because this life, as terrible as it ended up becoming, is familiar. Nothingness isn't. It's the complete opposite. The literal definition of the opposite of familiar. Outside the mind though (in reality); it's probably the most familiar thing there is.

Nothingness, even though it isn't actually any ness because it's nothing, seems so scary because the only way for my mind to even conceive of it is by making it into something. That something scares me so much that I think would actually rather suffer in life (hence all these rationalizations I have about the afterlife, probably).

Living life in a loop sounds grim when you think about it, but in the midst of it you probably wouldn't mind it, - literally; because you would be unconscious of the fact that it was happening like that.

It's the same thing as being in nothingness, in a sense.

 

[RadioKid722]

Glad to see you are still with us @danielthor.

 

[sakrt]

--------------------- Gravitational forces ---------------------

 

[LilCC]

All the theories are interesting for sure, but at the end of the day they are all theories. I believe once we die, then that's that, which makes life even that more special. I think once we die it will feel like how it felt before we were born (nothing).

 

[danielthor]

All the theories are interesting for sure, but at the end of the day they are all theories. I believe once we die, then that's that, which makes life even that more special. I think once we die it will feel like how it felt before we were born (nothing).

Yeah, I'm coming to the realization that all of this theorizing is just a way for me to convince myself that I'm gonna live on somehow. It's a survival mechanism of some sort. Nothingness is totally fine, because then I won't even care about being reincarnated.

 

[danielthor]

If death is the end, then there is comfort to be had in the fact that there can not be an end without a beginning of something new. That is the law of the universe.
When life ends; death begins, and I shall take part in this death like I took part in this life, I will be dead like I was alive, well aware of the fact that this new thing shall have its end too; I will not remain dead.

 

[Chinmoku]

If death is the end, then there is comfort to be had in the fact that there can not be an end without a beginning of something new. That is the law of the universe.
When life ends; death begins, and I shall take part in this death like I took part in this life, I will be dead like I was alive, well aware of the fact that this new thing shall have its end too; I will not remain dead.

Ursula Le Guin wrote: (I'm paraphrasing) for a word to make sense, there must be silence, before and after.

I don't know if you ever read the Earthsea trilogy (then expanded with more books). The third book, the farthest shore, is all centered on the idea of immortality as a degenerate thing and on true immortality being the world that keeps on living. I think it is essentially a taoist view.

 

[Marshall]

All the theories are interesting for sure, but at the end of the day they are all theories. I believe once we die, then that's that, which makes life even that more special. I think once we die it will feel like how it felt before we were born (nothing).

That alone I cannot fathom.

 

[LilCC]

That alone I cannot fathom.

It's hard to my brother, I have a hard time accepting it myself. But once we die it won't be hard because it's only consciousness that allows us to fear death.

 

[Jerad]

If death is the end, then there is comfort to be had in the fact that there can not be an end without a beginning of something new. That is the law of the universe.
When life ends; death begins, and I shall take part in this death like I took part in this life, I will be dead like I was alive, well aware of the fact that this new thing shall have its end too; I will not remain dead.

Personally, I believe it's more likely that nothing conscious ever "dies." All things are eternal... or humans are, at least.

So for me, there is no final moment — no single event or circumstance will be my final breath, or how my story ends. I'll continue to live forevermore, whether I like it or not.

We are destined to exist beyond this realm, I think. In this life, the events that happened and continue to happen will always be remembered, and though our lives depart from here, the realization of their importance in this place will grow more and more apparent once we survive the construct of "time"... for each person's story will be judged with equal importance, equal assessment, weighing the good against the bad, or the saved against the fallen.

I believe in the gospels. Therefore, redemption is possible for anyone. The killer who's redeemed will be granted a new life; the hate that's all-consuming will perish in the heavens; the love that saves our lives will be honored and adhered to, and the tragedies that befall us will be wiped away for good.

That's what I believe. A lot of interesting theories here, too.