Deafness Cure in 5 Years

[GregCA]

Plasticity allows for habituation, and possibly a lower (or higher) perception of the tinnitus, as it involves the nucleus accumbens and the auditory cortex, but it has nothing to do with the actual cause of tinnitus, in fact what is defined as plasticity is nothing more than a deregulation of multiple receptors (most likely dopamine related receptors) within the nucleus accumbens which processes repetitive sounds (which eventually leads to habituation), which is a natural process that occurs in most (but not all, for unknown reason) brains and takes at the very least 6 months of residual chronic exposure to a specific noise.

Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that. Plasticity, in abstract, it simply the ability for the brain to "reconfigure itself", ie neuronal topology. It happens all the time as we live through life. That's how learning happens.

The problem is that if you have hearing loss, the brain reorganizes itself "the wrong way". That's why it's called maladaptive plasticity. It thinks it's doing the right thing by allocating more "neuronal paths" to try and "crank up the volume" where you can't hear, but the outcome from that is worse than its cause, as you end up only amplifying noise rather than a useful signal. That is the genesis of Tinnitus in this particular case (there are other mechanisms for other root causes, such as otosclerosis).

Many studies have established that, and that is why many treatments try to reverse this (they try to trigger plasticity in the other direction). Sound therapies such as notch/windowed white noise/ACRN work under this assumption. Bi-modal stimulation too, but uses a somatic pathway to try to accomplish the reversal.

 

[Mathieulh]

Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that. Plasticity, in abstract, it simply the ability for the brain to "reconfigure itself", ie neuronal topology. It happens all the time as we live through life. That's how learning happens.

The problem is that if you have hearing loss, the brain reorganizes itself "the wrong way". That's why it's called maladaptive plasticity. It thinks it's doing the right thing by allocating more "neuronal paths" to try and "crank up the volume" where you can't hear, but the outcome from that is worse than its cause, as you end up only amplifying noise rather than a useful signal. That is the genesis of Tinnitus in this particular case (there are other mechanisms for other root causes, such as otosclerosis).

Many studies have established that, and that is why many treatments try to reverse this (they try to trigger plasticity in the other direction). Sound therapies such as notch/windowed white noise/ACRN work under this assumption. Bi-modal stimulation too, but uses a somatic pathway to try to accomplish the reversal.

Studies, through multiple biopsies, have actually recently demonstrated that most hearing loss related tinnitus (that is, all the ones originating from cochlear dysfunction), are always tied to peripheral neuropathy (rather than just the loss of stereocilia) and have little to do with plasticity (maladaptive or otherwise) as a cause, plasticity however (more specifically the auditory cortex increasing its "gain"), has much to do with a significant increase in the perception of your tinnitus, in layman's term, the "parasitic" noise, already existed from an underlying condition (neuropathy) and its perception is then further increased by your auditory cortex as it perceives hearing loss and attempts to compensate so it would not be as impactful.

This mechanism exists in all brains, and we are not "special" in any way in that regard, the difference in between people who have hearing loss and no tinnitus, and us, is that they do not suffer from significant neuropathy (nerve damage), whereas their cochlear might still be experiencing a significant loss in stereocilia.

As to the brain reconfiguring itself, that does happen during the habituation process (triggered by chronic noise exposure processed through the prefrontal cortex), and is actually a physiological process, which physically deregulates receptors in the nucleus accumbens and reduces its size, this (the physical shrinkage of the nucleus accumbens) is actually measurable using contrastred MRI, an increase in dopamine can also be detected from this change. This however does not occur in every individuals (though it does in a large majority), for unknown reasons, this is why the habituation process does not happen for everyone, this may even be a blessing in disguise as we do not currently know all the possible side-effects caused by this physiological change.

Brain plasticity itself however, as I explained above, does not cause tinnitus.

 

[Juan]

Unless there are heaps of money piled for hyperacusis and tinnitus research there will be no advances in the next century.

It is amazing that research is such an unproductive field. If people are dealing with projects with no money and no jackpot for finding a solution we are getting nowhere.

 

[GregCA]

Brain plasticity itself however, as I explained above, does not cause tinnitus.

I think there is confusion about brain plasticity and what it means. Plasticity just means "able to change its configuration". See https://www.brainhq.com/brain-resources/brain-plasticity/what-is-brain-plasticity/ for more info.

It can change for the better or, in some cases, for the worse. When the latter happens, the result of the plasticity can be a hyperactive neuronal region that ends up being a perception of sound where there isn't.

Habituation is orthogonal to plasticity, if there is a definition of habituation at all that people can agree to to begin with. I feel habituated, but that's not a good outcome for me - which is not how many people view habituation.

Please take the time to dig more into Tinnitus and various studies. There is much to learn. In particular, you would benefit from watching Susan Shore's presentation on bi-modal stimulation. It'll clear things up for you with regards to that particular type of T.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Would really like people to post what their knowledge is before they post and if they have a science background or post links to their claims.

Really makes it difficult to learn anything new.

I'm confused now, does brain plasticity contribute to tinnitus or not?

 

[JohnAdams]

I think there is confusion about brain plasticity and what it means. Plasticity just means "able to change its configuration". See https://www.brainhq.com/brain-resources/brain-plasticity/what-is-brain-plasticity/ for more info.

It can change for the better or, in some cases, for the worse. When the latter happens, the result of the plasticity can be a hyperactive neuronal region that ends up being a perception of sound where there isn't.

Habituation is orthogonal to plasticity, if there is a definition of habituation at all that people can agree to to begin with. I feel habituated, but that's not a good outcome for me - which is not how many people view habituation.

Please take the time to dig more into Tinnitus and various studies. There is much to learn. In particular, you would benefit from watching Susan Shore's presentation on bi-modal stimulation. It'll clear things up for you with regards to that particular type of T.

Very well said.

 

[Watasha]

Plasticity allows for habituation, and possibly a lower (or higher) perception of the tinnitus, as it involves the nucleus accumbens and the auditory cortex, but it has nothing to do with the actual cause of tinnitus, in fact what is defined as plasticity is nothing more than a deregulation of multiple receptors (most likely dopamine related receptors) within the nucleus accumbens which processes repetitive sounds (which eventually leads to habituation), which is a natural process that occurs in most (but not all, for unknown reason) brains and takes at the very least 6 months of residual chronic exposure to a specific noise. This deregulation only starts to happen after the noise is perceived through the prefrontal cortex gateway (as opposed to the amygdala), which means the noise goes from a threatening state to an annoying, albeit non threatening state, as noises perceived through the amygdala are not processed by the nucleus accumbens, this can be (and often is) one of the reasons for which the habituation process can be blocked/not start, as a lot of people can be stuck in a negative feedback look through which the noise perception can remain in the amygdala for years.

Meanwhile Neuromod's treatment has more to do with auditory cortex persistent residuation through neurostimulation than brain plasticity itself. (It triggers the auditory cortex to focus/tune in to other frequencies that the ones that match your tinnitus, making its overall perception lower), you can (temporarily) achieve the same effect by using bi-modal acoustic neurostimulation, which may lower your tinnitus perception from seconds to minutes, obviously Neuromod's technique is more complex as it combines acoustic neurostimulation with trigeminal nerve stimulation, allowing for potential long term effects.

Dr. Josef Rauschecker's theory is... a theory, one that's not substantiated by any evidence, mechanistic data or clinical models of any kind.

Perhaps you should send this information and any back-up studies to Dr. Rauschecker. You could save him a lot of valuable time and resources.

 

[Ken219]

@ChrisBoyMonkey Thank you for your service.

Cause of Tinnitus: U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran.

I was in the military 1966-70. I was a firefighter. We were on the flight line and was never given hear protection.

Were you supplied ear protection?

 

[Ken219]

3 years is pretty optimistic, more realistically, considering clinical trial follow-ups, you are looking at 10 to 15 years before commercial availability.

I like to look at it away from the FDA! The 'F' does not stand for fast. Whatever country offers it I'm there!

 

[Mathieulh]

Perhaps you should send this information and any back-up studies to Dr. Rauschecker. You could save him a lot of valuable time and resources.

Here is some research articles done on the subject linking tinnitus to cochlear neuropathy:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3921399/

https://www.audiologyonline.com/articles/20q-cochlear-synaptopathy-interrupting-communication-20946

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378595516302507

There are others I looked into, but I am currently using my cell phone inside a mHBOT chamber, so that's not the best/most comfortable way to look at and for research xD.

 

[Watasha]

Here is some research articles done on the subject linking tinnitus to cochlear neuropathy:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3921399/

https://www.audiologyonline.com/articles/20q-cochlear-synaptopathy-interrupting-communication-20946

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378595516302507

There are others I looked into, but I am currently using my cell phone inside a mHBOT chamber, so that's not the best/most comfortable way to look at and for research xD.

Thanks! I don't understand how this refutes the gating mechanism though.

 

[spedgas]

Studies, through multiple biopsies, have actually recently demonstrated that most hearing loss related tinnitus (that is, all the ones originating from cochlear dysfunction), are always tied to peripheral neuropathy (rather than just the loss of stereocilia) and have little to do with plasticity (maladaptive or otherwise) as a cause, plasticity however (more specifically the auditory cortex increasing its "gain"), has much to do with a significant increase in the perception of your tinnitus, in layman's term, the "parasitic" noise, already existed from an underlying condition (neuropathy) and its perception is then further increased by your auditory cortex as it perceives hearing loss and attempts to compensate so it would not be as impactful.

This mechanism exists in all brains, and we are not "special" in any way in that regard, the difference in between people who have hearing loss and no tinnitus, and us, is that they do not suffer from significant neuropathy (nerve damage), whereas their cochlear might still be experiencing a significant loss in stereocilia.

As to the brain reconfiguring itself, that does happen during the habituation process (triggered by chronic noise exposure processed through the prefrontal cortex), and is actually a physiological process, which physically deregulates receptors in the nucleus accumbens and reduces its size, this (the physical shrinkage of the nucleus accumbens) is actually measurable using contrastred MRI, an increase in dopamine can also be detected from this change. This however does not occur in every individuals (though it does in a large majority), for unknown reasons, this is why the habituation process does not happen for everyone, this may even be a blessing in disguise as we do not currently know all the possible side-effects caused by this physiological change.

Brain plasticity itself however, as I explained above, does not cause tinnitus.

I've never thought about habituation being a physiological process. I'm not sure what to make of that. Interesting.

 

[Mathieulh]

Thanks! I don't understand how this refutes the gating mechanism though.

It strongly correlates hearing loss related tinnitus to cochlear peripheral neuropathy as well as regular hearing loss (without tinnitus) to stereocilia damage/death without associated neuropathy.

Meanwhile there is no existing research whatsoever which proves or promotes the "gating mechanism" theory. If there is some, I would be very interested in reviewing/reading such research.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

@ChrisBoyMonkey Thank you for your service.

Cause of Tinnitus: U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran.

I was in the military 1966-70. I was a firefighter. We were on the flight line and was never given hear protection.

Were you supplied ear protection?

Thank you for your service too, Ken219. I was supplied ear protection but it was the knowingly defective 3M earplugs. I'm trying to get my documents ready for a claim and will try to join the lawsuit.

 

[Ken219]

knowingly defective

The fact that is was knowingly defective from 2003-2015 and if it wasn't for a whistleblower they'd still be selling the defective ear plugs. 3M should never have a military contract.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

The fact that is was knowingly defective from 2003-2015 and if it wasn't for a whistleblower they'd still be selling the defective ear plugs. 3M should never have a military contract.

Agreed. It's a shame that the DoD already sued then yet has not given any of it to the service members, and instead we have to do our own lawsuit. I'm hoping the DoD at least uses it to fund more research like Dr. Tzounopoulos' work.

 

[Ken219]

Agreed. It's a shame that the DoD already sued then yet has not given any of it to the service members

Settlement?

'3M agreed to pay $9.1 million to the government.'

Government did you no favours.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

Settlement?

'3M agreed to pay $9.1 million to the government.'

Government did you no favours.

I know, that's why there is a veteran lawsuit going on too, I'm going to join it.

 

[Ken219]

I know, that's why there is a veteran lawsuit going on too, I'm going to join it.

Good luck. I hope this explodes like 'DuPont to pay $671 million to end suits over water poisoning'

They do it knowing it will harm people!

 

[Juan]

There are others I looked into, but I am currently using my cell phone inside a mHBOT chamber, so that's not the best/most comfortable way to look at and for research xD.

Is a HBOT chamber loud? I have read there are several types of chambers; what kind of chamber is it? Has it helped your hearing?

 

[Daniel Lion]

My dad, who's smart and cantankerous... said "son you ain't gonna see squat till 2008"

He's probably not too far off the mark...

 

[Rb86]

My dad, who's smart and cantankerous... said "son you ain't gonna see squat till 2008"

He's probably not too far off the mark...

Did he mean 3008?

 

[Daniel Lion]

Did he mean 3008?

Yeahhh... sadly, your numbers are spot on.
Actually 2028... but I am reconciled to the pain... freak it.

 

[Rb86]

Yeahhh... sadly, your numbers are spot on.
Actually 2028... but I am reconciled to the pain... freak it.

Imagine getting this in 1928. We are some lucky SOB's that we have a chance.

 

[Daniel Lion]

Imagine getting this in 1928. We are some lucky SOB's that we have a chance.

The troops coming back from WW1 and WW2 were just called shell shocked, poor souls. Life is cruel... we need to fight and have gratitude for so much, especially the science that's coming. Even if doesn't help us at least the young ones won't have to suffer.
I am not selfish, let's hope for the best Rb86.