DIY Low-Level Laser Therapy for Tinnitus on a Budget — LLLT Under 100,-

[Cityjohn]

@Cityjohn - are you doing better? Hard to tell.

Yes, I was just having a bad day. A few days later I measured it a few days in a row and I must admit I've had some measurable improvement. but I can not draw the conclusion that LT was the only effective therapy that helped me.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Yes, I was just having a bad day. A few days later I measured it a few days in a row and I must admit I've had some measurable improvement. but I can not draw the conclusion that LT was the only effective therapy that helped me.

You said it gets worse when using LT. How long does that last?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

hey guys. just how simple is it to build one of these? the more i read these threads the less I want to buck up on a commercial laser. that said - this type of thing isn't something i have any experience with. is someone who built one willing to explain the process to me (and others who are interested) like we're 5 years old? Think - ikea instructions.

 

[Coleoptere]

I think I will not get to the Ikea level but I have started puzzling a bit. But I'm no expert and until now I only looked into LED's:

https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/product/High-Power-LED-Chip-1W-3W-10W-COB-LED-Beads-Bulb-Light-Lamp-Orange-Epistar-600nm/1913069_32630626188.html?detailNewVersion=&categoryId=390402&spm=2114.8147860.0.0.tYH4od

@RUM: you might be interested in these 600NM's.

I do not know if we need 1, 3, 5 or 10 Watt and if they require different power drivers.

Also I found these two LED's. They could be places inside the ear but I'm affraid they are too powerful for that:

https://www.conrad.nl/nl/cree-xpcrd...oranje-2-w-54-lm-125-22-v-350-ma-1125964.html

And:

https://www.conrad.nl/nl/cree-xbdre...rood-3-w-71-lm-115-225-v-1000-ma-1125955.html

There are many thinks still unknown for me such as the exact spec for the power driver. Then the construction and the (safe) treatment....

 

[RUM]

No fights here, no worries. I'm just really short on time and can't always be polite.


"Why would Hamblin say that" Not everyone seems to make the distinction between what Hamblin ambiguously states in an interview when he is trying to use simpler terminology, and what he and his students write in their research. Because boy is there a big difference at times. He and I agree on all points. The reason he mentioned that most therapeutic effects have been seen in those ranges is because anything related to nervous tissue is but a small fraction of the total use of LLLT. LLLT has for example been used in animal care for a decade.

Now my point to all this was that depending on your tinnitus you'd either be better off using one or the other wavelength. For example, if you incurred hearing damage by means of a loud sudden noise you should definitely start with Red LED's. If someone incurred something like exploding head syndrome, or benzodiazepine withdrawl and there is no way to reach it with visible wavelengths it's probably best to use IR.
The papers on LT also provide an indication to dosage, another issue that is overlooked often.

About dosage, we don't know how many power exactly we need.
On the last study shared by you, they talk about 50mW/cm², the eardrum is about 1cm², a few people use 10W LED, I'm agree that the 3/4 of power don't go in the ear but there are about 2,5W on the eardrum, 2,5W/cm².
So 50X the power used in the study.
I don't know what power we should use...

 

[RUM]

I think I will not get to the Ikea level but I have started puzzling a bit. But I'm no expert and until now I only looked into LED's:

https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/product/High-Power-LED-Chip-1W-3W-10W-COB-LED-Beads-Bulb-Light-Lamp-Orange-Epistar-600nm/1913069_32630626188.html?detailNewVersion=&categoryId=390402&spm=2114.8147860.0.0.tYH4od

@RUM: you might be interested in these 600NM's.

I do not know if we need 1, 3, 5 or 10 Watt and if they require different power drivers.

Also I found these two LED's. They could be places inside the ear but I'm affraid they are too powerful for that:

https://www.conrad.nl/nl/cree-xpcrd...oranje-2-w-54-lm-125-22-v-350-ma-1125964.html

And:

https://www.conrad.nl/nl/cree-xbdre...rood-3-w-71-lm-115-225-v-1000-ma-1125955.html

There are many thinks still unknown for me such as the exact spec for the power driver. Then the construction and the (safe) treatment....

Yes 600nm can be interesting, but the conrad LED that you show are CMS LED I beleive.

 

[Coleoptere]

About dosage, we don't know how many power exactly we need.
On the last study shared by you, they talk about 50mW/cm², the eardrum is about 1cm², a few people use 10W LED, I'm agree that the 3/4 of power don't go in the ear but there are about 2,5W on the eardrum, 2,5W/cm².
So 50X the power used in the study.
I don't know what power we should use...

As I go through this threat I see that @Cityjohn uses a self -constructed 50 watt device. LED is safer thans laser or IR. But still your question stands. You want it to be effective and safe

 

[Cityjohn]

You said it gets worse when using LT. How long does that last?

For the duration of the treatment. Give or take a few days.

I think I will not get to the Ikea level but I have started puzzling a bit. But I'm no expert and until now I only looked into LED's:

https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/product/High-Power-LED-Chip-1W-3W-10W-COB-LED-Beads-Bulb-Light-Lamp-Orange-Epistar-600nm/1913069_32630626188.html?detailNewVersion=&categoryId=390402&spm=2114.8147860.0.0.tYH4od

@RUM: you might be interested in these 600NM's.

I do not know if we need 1, 3, 5 or 10 Watt and if they require different power drivers.

Also I found these two LED's. They could be places inside the ear but I'm affraid they are too powerful for that:

https://www.conrad.nl/nl/cree-xpcrd...oranje-2-w-54-lm-125-22-v-350-ma-1125964.html

And:

https://www.conrad.nl/nl/cree-xbdre...rood-3-w-71-lm-115-225-v-1000-ma-1125955.html

There are many thinks still unknown for me such as the exact spec for the power driver. Then the construction and the (safe) treatment....

Those seem fine but I think they'll heat up in the ear. Try finding normal LED's that you can simply wire up like I made those ear LED's. They fit perfectly. You don't have to turn it up all the way, just supply less power.

About dosage, we don't know how many power exactly we need.
On the last study shared by you, they talk about 50mW/cm², the eardrum is about 1cm², a few people use 10W LED, I'm agree that the 3/4 of power don't go in the ear but there are about 2,5W on the eardrum, 2,5W/cm².
So 50X the power used in the study.
I don't know what power we should use...

With 10Watts of red light applied to the skin I was able to affect the nerves in my face so much it gave me a headache immediately. So definitely don't go beyond that. My Ear LED's I could sleep with at low power.

If you can I would find the most powerful 600nm LED I could find that would fit all the way inside the ear, up to the eardrum. Don't do that with the most powerful IR LED you can find.

Many people and some studies have suggested LLLT works best if used for a prolonged period of time. As a guiding principle I've tried to keep the power low and the duration high.

As I go through this threat I see that @Cityjohn uses a self -constructed 50 watt device. LED is safer thans laser or IR. But still your question stands. You want it to be effective and safe

Indeed, it's worth mentioning though that my 50W crown was overpowered and designed to reach the dorsal cochlear nucleus which was a long shot to begin with. The problem arises with nervous tissues being excited in the superficial layers of the skin.


For my next therapy I will adjust the crown and exclusively target the auditory cortex where my head hurts to test the inflammation reduction hypothesis. As far as I can tell the most successful people here have had their succes due to anti inflammation treatment or therapy. I had hypothesized that the reason Dr. Wilden's office laser works in some cases, and in all cases works better than the home laser, is because it spills into the auditory cortex and treats an inflammation there.

 

[RUM]

What power you advice us? How long per day?

 

[Coleoptere]

For the duration of the treatment. Give or take a few days.



Those seem fine but I think they'll heat up in the ear. Try finding normal LED's that you can simply wire up like I made those ear LED's. They fit perfectly. You don't have to turn it up all the way, just supply less power.



With 10Watts of red light applied to the skin I was able to affect the nerves in my face so much it gave me a headache immediately. So definitely don't go beyond that. My Ear LED's I could sleep with at low power.

If you can I would find the most powerful 600nm LED I could find that would fit all the way inside the ear, up to the eardrum. Don't do that with the most powerful IR LED you can find.

Many people and some studies have suggested LLLT works best if used for a prolonged period of time. As a guiding principle I've tried to keep the power low and the duration high.

I hope everything is fine with you by the-way-after those bad days.

Finding powerfull wired LED's is not that easy for me. I suppose that brightness (mcd) is what we are after? In that case I found:

http://lighthouseleds.com/3mm-12v-pre-wired-led-orange-amber-ultra-bright-15-000-mcd.html

and:

http://www.pcfelectronics.nl/pre-wired-led-3mm-rood-helder.html

Number of Watts are seldom mentioned. As far as my humble knowledge goes it is mA * voltage (P = V * I). So maybe I should find 24 V LED's instead of 12V if they exists in case Watts is a measure for powerfull?

 

[emre]

Hello,

Today is my first day to use EMLAS 520AC. I am quite scared of the negative effects. So far, I just feel the warmth in my ears. I read the manual booklet. Is there anything that I should be careful?

P.S. After a couple of minutes, I sometimes feel just a little pain in my ears. It is so small it may even be physchological.

I am also not sure how to wear these ear plugs. Do I need to point them somewhere? Do I need to stick them hard?

Sorry. I just realised I posted in the wrong topic.

 

[lymebite]

Is there anything that I should be careful?

@emre

Be careful with your eyes. I believe the type of laser you have is the kind with earbuds, so the light should stay in your ears and be unlikely to hit your eyes. But you do not want to risk anything slipping and the laser light hitting an eye, it can cause instant and permanent vision damage. To be extra safe you may want to wear a blindfold when the diodes are plugged in.

Best of luck! I hope it helps.

 

[emre]

@lymebite Thank you for the info. Yes, I read the eye warning. I am not looking at it with my eyes but I may buy goggles for that.

 

[Coleoptere]

@emre I hope it will help you! And please keep us updated

 

[Coleoptere]

My first LLLT device:

625Nm LED's. As closest to 600Nm as I could get as advised by @Cityjohn

They are safe and cheap, that's sure....

 

[RaZaH]

What is the circuit ? 9v battery , 220 ohm resistor ?

 

[Coleoptere]

LED's are 2.1 Volt, two batteries 1.2 Volt (Rechargebles AA) and a 15 Ohm resistor.

 

[RUM]

What is the power of each LED?

 

[Cityjohn]

What is the power of each LED?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

would something like this be even feasible to use? http://www.ebay.com/itm/LNH-PRO-50-...380435?hash=item4b0bf878d3:g:1m8AAOSwwpdW~EfO

 

[Cityjohn]

would something like this be even feasible to use? http://www.ebay.com/itm/LNH-PRO-50-...380435?hash=item4b0bf878d3:g:1m8AAOSwwpdW~EfO

Well... you can buy a better laser module for a tenth of the price, so if that factors into your feasibility then no.

http://www.banggood.com/650nm-80mW-...er-Module-Laser-Generator-Diode-p-963477.html

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Well... you can buy a better laser module for a tenth of the price, so if that factors into your feasibility then no.

http://www.banggood.com/650nm-80mW-...er-Module-Laser-Generator-Diode-p-963477.html

once I buy this diode is there anything else I have to buy? power supply? etc? I'm somewhat out of my element here. I can handle stuff tahts plug and play - I've worked with audio gear for years - but I'm not really sure how power regulation, etc - with the lasers and don't want to fry my brain.

 

[Cityjohn]

once I buy this diode is there anything else I have to buy? power supply? etc? I'm somewhat out of my element here. I can handle stuff tahts plug and play - I've worked with audio gear for years - but I'm not really sure how power regulation, etc - with the lasers and don't want to fry my brain.

I'm sorry I linked the wrong one, This one is far better; http://www.banggood.com/Laser-Modul...ng-Machine-Parts-p-955966.html?rmmds=category
It comes with a battery box, you'll have to buy 3 AA batteries. A Laser module has it's own power regulator, all you need to do is feed it power.

Just Don't shine it in your eyes and make sure there's nothing reflective around so that you could accidentally hit your own or others eyes.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I'm sorry I linked the wrong one, This one is far better; http://www.banggood.com/Laser-Modul...ng-Machine-Parts-p-955966.html?rmmds=category
It comes with a battery box, you'll have to buy 3 AA batteries. A Laser module has it's own power regulator, all you need to do is feed it power.

Just Don't shine it in your eyes and make sure there's nothing reflective around so that you could accidentally hit your own or others eyes.

would you say that this is as good as any of the other LLLT devices ? is there any scientific reason this wouldn't work and the others would? isn't 200mw on the powerful side?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@Cityjohn reviews say that thing can engrave wood. Somethign tells me that you can really hurt yourself with that

 

[Marie79]

what is this about? Is this a new therapy?

 

[Bobby B]

@Cityjohn reviews say that thing can engrave wood. Somethign tells me that you can really hurt yourself with that

Use it to engrave your eardrum with "no more tinnitus"

 

[Bobby B]

The positive aspect of DIY laser therapy is that you only need to accidentally point the laser or a reflection of it -into your eyes for a fraction of a second and that will help make your tinnitus a far lower priority right away.

For DIY I would stick to high power LED - safe, cheap ..these laser kits aren't designed to be used on heads

 

[RUM]

The positive aspect of DIY laser therapy is that you only need to accidentally point the laser or a reflection of it -into your eyes for a fraction of a second and that will help make your tinnitus a far lower priority right away.

For DIY I would stick to high power LED - safe, cheap ..these laser kits aren't designed to be used on heads

Do you always continue LLLT? It is always useful for you? Which LED do you use now (power, wave length)?

 

[Cityjohn]

@Cityjohn reviews say that thing can engrave wood. Somethign tells me that you can really hurt yourself with that

Use it to engrave your eardrum with "no more tinnitus"

Sun light can also engrave wood if you focus it. Don't focus it into a point. I've said it before, Lasers are serious business and you need to pay attention whenever using them. You can however focus the module into a thick parallel beam that will not heat up the skin, it will only feel slightly warm to the touch. The casing however does heat up to about 30-40 degrees. So if anyone wants to try lasers they can, make sure you buy a protective anti red light goggle to protect your eyes.