DIY Low-Level Laser Therapy for Tinnitus on a Budget — LLLT Under 100,-

[Cityjohn]

All of that's outdated.

All of what?

breached

Breaching to me is entering a room with my close quarters combat squad and clearing it, please elaborate what you mean exactly.

''tinnitus''

Why is this in parentheses?

lassical literature of what objective means

Objective means that the sound you experience is measurable by others through either another ear or a microphone.

that talks of sound sensitivity which is cured with tenotomy so

What would be the relationship between conductive hypersensitivity and tinnitus exactly?

doesn't make any sense. Also, we have testimonies of people with sound sensitivity and tenotomy in the forums, at chat-hyperacusis and I pasted one here.

What part does not make sense to you?

Are you saying conductive hearing loss can't mimic sensorineural hearing loss?

If there is an observable difference it is not the same. Only gravity and acceleration, and space and time are the same to me. If by mimic you mean that somebody could be fooled into thinking one is the other then yes I believe even a clown could mimic an airplane but when it comes to hearing loss there are very simple procedures and tests that have been established quite a while ago to determine the root cause. In general there is little way to fool an audiologist since most of them (here anyway) are trained in applied science.

Harvard can spend 10 years researching and 40 years getting lectured by Jastreboff but that won't change the above evidence.

What evidence?

and yet people with tenotomies cured their ''sensitivity to particular sounds like a mouse or a keyboard''

I don't think anybody would say it's a big secret that some people would benefit from tendon changes in the ear but what does any of this have to do with tinnitus?

but they're both spectacularly wrong.

If you are right please at the very least explain the fundamental science behind it so that I and everyone else can test the hypothesis in another thread, this would add to our community. This said I do take a little more weight to the entire scientific community than your claim that professors of the Harvard medical school would be wrong, but more than that I wasn't talking about Jastreboff at all..

I think you're zooming in on something so small and so insignificant that we really have little interest in common. I am not concerned with the middle ear right now, all my own symptoms in the middle ear have all completely vanished within three months of tinnitus onset and my case of onset is Very evidently neurologically based as is that of the overwhelming majority of people around the world suffering from the condition.
I don't exactly know what you're claiming yet but if it's that tinnitus is pretty much caused by a middle ear problem the problem with your hypothesis would be that it is clearly opposed by practical experience when it comes to hearing loss and tinnitus. If you however believe this to be the case I suggest you formulate that hypothesis such that we can test it against literature and practice.

Again, all of this would be better served in a different thread of which I understand that there isn't one that would fit this right now. If you can wait a bit we'll be launching a research area where members can raise research inquiries and help in grass-root level research. This issue would fit perfectly there.

 

[Cityjohn]

However, you do not have to believe me.

I do take what you say seriously. In fact I had gone back to research the exact effects of vitamin B in a textbook and made an interesting connection I think is of importance, at least to my own research. There is a post that may or may not be a good read for you here; https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/thiamine-pyrophosphate-tpp-stopped-my-tinnitus.13673/page-3

 

[Ears Hurt]

@Cityjohn I sent you pictures of the red LEDs. Have you experienced any dizziness/vertigo after using the LEDs?

 

[Cityjohn]

@Cityjohn I sent you pictures of the red LEDs. Have you experienced any dizziness/vertigo after using the LEDs?

No never, wear them all day. Have you?

 

[Ears Hurt]

@Cityjohn I did last night when laying down. I am not sure if it was related but it was new to me. I felt like I was on a boat. Did you get the pictures?

 

[Reinier]

@Ears Hurt perhaps not related, but I thought I mention it anyway.
When I do LLLT and I point the laser too high I get vertigo. (I am using Lucky Laser in ear lasers).
Initially the settings I believe where too high. But also on a lower setting getting the angle wrong will effect my balance.

 

[Ears Hurt]

@Reinier Thank you. I'll keep that in mind. It could be related to a diet change as well. I started changes my eating habits too.

 

[Cityjohn]

@Cityjohn I did last night when laying down. I am not sure if it was related but it was new to me. I felt like I was on a boat. Did you get the pictures?

Yes got them, if it fits it's fine like that. I never had any ill effects myself and think it's quite strange if you should get dizzy. Let us know if it keeps happening.

 

[Ears Hurt]

@Cityjohn yes they seem to fit well. The battery pack is attached to the LED, so no silly wires. I can wear these throughout the day. I wear my hair down and you don't even see them except for the red light shining out of my hair. I my start a new fad. I get lots of questions on them, but I am not prepared to explain.

I'll state if I get the dizzy spell again. I am hoping it is just a one time thing and it was diet related.

 

[lymebite]

@Cityjohn

This is a fascinating thread, thanks for sharing all your research and fabrication innovations!

I have read the entire thread from start to finish a few times and I probably am missing something obvious along the way, but it seems like you start out with a bill of materials for an ear laser device but by the end of the thread you have altered direction a bit and determined that an ear LED is superior in terms of both function and safety (and less expensive - under 20 euros instead of under 100 euros).

Am I gathering all that correctly? If so, do you think you could post a summary recap of your conclusions and specs for the recommended device, including the bill of materials for the ear LED?

Thank you!

 

[Bobby B]

@Ears Hurt perhaps not related, but I thought I mention it anyway.
When I do LLLT and I point the laser too high I get vertigo. (I am using Lucky Laser in ear lasers).
Initially the settings I believe where too high. But also on a lower setting getting the angle wrong will effect my balance.

You need to use the pulse setting - the round sign wiht the dots

 

[Ears Hurt]

@Bobby B I'm not using the lucky laser. I am using the red LEDs that CityJohn is using. I just altered mine so I have the battery pack attached to the LED so I don't have wires. I can wear mine all day with my hair down.

 

[Bobby B]

@Reinier
The laser concentrates a lot of light at the same spot so it heats up the cochlea and you get vertigo . Using pulse solves the issue.
The angle is the good one though - it means you hit the cochlea which is a bit higher than the ear drum

 

[Reinier]

The angle is the good one though - it means you hit the cochlea which is a bit higher than the ear drum

Thanks.
I already lowered the setting. I was wondering if I was pointing it too much toward the semicircular canals of the inner ear.
I need a 3d depiction of the inner ear. Pictures on the internet are different. Which picture(s) is (are) correct??
I will experiment with pulsing (5-10 Hz?).
I am very careful and obviously do not want to damage anything.

 

[Cityjohn]

@Cityjohn

This is a fascinating thread, thanks for sharing all your research and fabrication innovations!

I have read the entire thread from start to finish a few times and I probably am missing something obvious along the way, but it seems like you start out with a bill of materials for an ear laser device but by the end of the thread you have altered direction a bit and determined that an ear LED is superior in terms of both function and safety (and less expensive - under 20 euros instead of under 100 euros).

Am I gathering all that correctly? If so, do you think you could post a summary recap of your conclusions and specs for the recommended device, including the bill of materials for the ear LED?

Thank you!

The ear LED's are only a small part of LT as a whole. I've even considered creating a luminescent polymer that can be injected and excited to emit light by the use of radio waves. Should the ear led's yield little result I'm going to try a different therapy using a helium neon laser, the very same that Dr Wilden is using.
That being said you're completely right that I should upload a clear update with a first set of materials for the first device I'll do it including instruction as soon as I have some spare time.

 

[Cityjohn]

I need a 3d depiction of the inner ear. Pictures on the internet are different. Which picture(s) is (are) correct??

Here are some images that may help you out a bit. The ear canal differs greatly in most people, for this reason most of them are drawn schematically however some features remain the same.

 

[Ears Hurt]

@Bobby B @Reinier how much time during the day are you using your laser?

 

[Bobby B]

I do about 20 min per day
120mw and 450mw

 

[Reinier]

Here are some images that may help you out a bit.

Thanks.
Looking at the 3D. How do we ever reach the cochlea with IR? Bone is in the way.

 

[Reinier]

how much time during the day are you using your laser?

20 minutes for me too. I alternate the wavelengths. One day 808 nm, 350mW and the other day 630nm, 100mW.
I started the therapy roughly over one month ago.

 

[Ears Hurt]

Thanks.
Looking at the 3D. How do we ever reach the cochlea with IR? Bone is in the way.

And isn't the cochlea incased in bone?

Have you noticed any changes? I didn't get my dizzy spell last night, so I feel a little more comfortable using the laser again. I've been doing an hour a day. I just started this weekend.

 

[Reinier]

And isn't the cochlea incased in bone?

Exactly. Looks like it on the images. Also I read this several times.
I am intrigued however that I experience an increase in tinnitus when I use the device. I am pretty sure this is not subjective. Why does that happen than?

 

[Cityjohn]

Thanks.
Looking at the 3D. How do we ever reach the cochlea with IR? Bone is in the way.

And isn't the cochlea incased in bone?

Exactly. Looks like it on the images. Also I read this several times.
I am intrigued however that I experience an increase in tinnitus when I use the device. I am pretty sure this is not subjective. Why does that happen than?

Why light does reach the cochlea:

A proper otoscopy manual will show there is a direct line of sight to the round window. Even if the general structure is encased in bone, the bone we're talking about is very tough and very porous, it does not form a barrier to light as muscle or other red tissue would. Basically red light below IR which has the ability to scatter easily goes straight through into the cochlea passing only through 1-2 mm of tissue. IR light I would say has a more difficult time because it scatters far less even though it can more easily penetrate the porous bone. The fraction of light going through the round window is substantially larger than anything that would pass through bone. And then the bone it is encased in is very thin toward the eardrum forming a very small barrier to overcome. If you can shine a light through your hand the tiny distance in the inner ear is not going to be a problem. The images below will illustrate;

 

[Reinier]

@Cityjohn Is the circle with cross in it where the round window sits behind?

 

[Ears Hurt]

@Cityjohn thank you for the explanation and photos. Yes, same question as Reinier, is that location marked in red X the round window? I also notice an increase when using the light therapy.

 

[Cityjohn]

@Cityjohn Is the circle with cross in it where the round window sits behind?

@Cityjohn thank you for the explanation and photos. Yes, same question as Reinier, is that location marked in red X the round window? I also notice an increase when using the light therapy.

Here are two more pictures with perforated eardrums to reveal the round window; RWN and R are the round window;

 

[Reinier]

@Cityjohn Thanks.
Now I can understand better why I actually could experience an increase in tinnitus. Most of all I can understand that IR could partially reach part of the cochlea.

 

[Marlino]

Inspired by @ehrfried I built a new lllt device for night time. It only uses this two parts:

Menge Artikel Artikelbezeichnung
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1 ST x 518374 VOLTCRAFT SNG-600-OW STECKERNETZTEIL
1 ST x 816300 LINIENLASER 635NM 5MW 60° 70108477

which you can buy from conrad.de

You can put it into your ear while sleeping.
5mw may seem not much but during 7h of sleep it sums up. Physically there are as many photons penetrating as with a x-times stronger laser but in a x-times shorter time.
Advantage is, it's not getting too hot and also its harmless to the eyes.

Its really plug and play. Even the cables match.

Using it for three nights now.
Of course did not get rid of T yet

 

[Marlino]

Just an idea: if enough people are using a home lllt device, why not doing a periodical (weekly) survey (e.g. using google forms) to track the outcome.

Of course its highly unscientific but who cares if outcome is that it works.

Who is in?

 

[Ears Hurt]

@Marlino Great idea! I think everyone doing laser treatment should do the survey. It can't hurt to get data.