Dr. Wilden's LLLT Laser Machine Reduced My Tinnitus to 1/2 of What It Was in 6 Weeks

[briano]

Hi jojoFord,

I was very concerned about the bank transfer too. I fought him a bit too. However, I did get the laser and Dr. Wilden has held up his end of the bargain by communicating with me on how to use it. I go for my 6 month hearing test in the beginning of April. If you can wait to purchase the laser until then, I'd be happy to share my results with you. My 3 month hearing test did not produce the results that Dr. Wilden or myself wanted. He has changed my laser time to 30 min. x 2 per day. I'm hoping that will restore some of my hearing loss.
All the best to you,
Brian

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Hi jojoFord,

I was very concerned about the bank transfer too. I fought him a bit too. However, I did get the laser and Dr. Wilden has held up his end of the bargain by communicating with me on how to use it. I go for my 6 month hearing test in the beginning of April. If you can wait to purchase the laser until then, I'd be happy to share my results with you. My 3 month hearing test did not produce the results that Dr. Wilden or myself wanted. He has changed my laser time to 30 min. x 2 per day. I'm hoping that will restore some of my hearing loss.
All the best to you,
Brian

Any subjective improvement? We've all been hoping for the best here.

 

[briano]

I feel like my hearing is better and more clear. I just like to have proof of it.

 

[Bobby B]

You could try the Generalfuzz web site single tone scale - at very low volume ,go up and down the scale to look for dips.
The LT did improve the small dips so the scale is more smooth now , this will make music sound crisper and more pleasant but not show up on wide gaps 1000hz hearing test

 

[briano]

You could try the Generalfuzz web site single tone scale - at very low volume ,go up and down the scale to look for dips.
The LT did improve the small dips so the scale is more smooth now , this will make music sound crisper and more pleasant but not show up on wide gaps 1000hz hearing test

I'll have to give that a try. Thanks!

 

[Bobby B]

http://www.generalfuzz.net/acrn/

 

[Tom Cnyc]

http://www.generalfuzz.net/acrn/

The general fuzz site is not reliable for this. Certain frequencies will cut out in one side as you slide, at random. I've tested this by switching my headphones around.

I have very high quality studio production headphones with balanced response from 20hz to 22khz.

Don't freak yourself out with this.

 

[Mithrandir]

I used the laser of wilden during 9 months without success. I respected the protocol. No chance for me. Now I try to sell it if someone is interested. The laser is in perfect condition. Pm me if you want.

 

[MrBonk]

The general fuzz site is not reliable for this. Certain frequencies will cut out in one side as you slide, at random. I've tested this by switching my headphones around.

I have very high quality studio production headphones with balanced response from 20hz to 22khz.

Don't freak yourself out with this.

Driver mismatch can cause slightly different frequency response per ear FWIW. Which can also cause this. Not very many sets of cans are near 100% driver matched.


If you want a more reliable way (Knowing that the application is 100% faultless) to test specific frequencies and even do sweeps.

Download and use the evaluation version of Reaper along with MDA TestTone.
http://mda.smartelectronix.com/

It does require knowledge on how to use a DAW a little bit though and how to use MDATT's interface. (Pretty simple slider layout).

 

[DebInAustralia]

I used the laser of wilden during 9 months without success. I respected the protocol. No chance for me. Now I try to sell it if someone is interested. The laser is in perfect condition. Pm me if you want.

Have you sold your laser Mithrandir?

 

[mikeplas]

Briano, can you give an update? Is it working or not?

 

[VRZ78]

I'm selling mine too if anyone is interested.

 

[SilverSpiral]

I'm selling mine too if anyone is interested.

price range?

 

[briano]

Briano, can you give an update? Is it working or not?

I have my 6 month audiogram scheduled for the 1st week of April. I'll post my results. Please feel free to follow up with me. My goal is to restore my hearing loss and get rid of the tinnitus that I have. I also want to help people in their decision making process regarding the purchase of a laser.

 

[Ed209]

I had an audiogram right before I started the home treatment. I plan to get another one done around the 3 month mark (which will be pretty soon). I'm told that improvements in hearing can start to occur from the 3 month period on. I'm not expecting any great change on my next audiogram but I am hoping for some small change.

I'd just like to point out that my audiogram improved by 15db at some frequencies, and an average of 10db, by doing nothing at all. I don't think audiograms are the greatest measurements to be honest.

If I'm being honest I'm skeptical about LLLT. It seems like an easy way to make money selling these lasers to people desperate for a solution. I don't mean to be negative, but that's how I see it.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I hope you prove me wrong and you find some relief.

Here's my audiograms:

BEFORE

AFTER

 

[Ed209]

Just out of curiosity, what are the largest reported gains attributed to LLLT. In other words what is it expected to achieve?

I know 15db is not a huge deal, but are there any known, proven cases of LLLT achieving over 30db for example?

 

[lymebite]

Just out of curiosity, what are the largest reported gains attributed to LLLT. In other words what is it expected to achieve? I know 15db is not a huge deal, but are there any known, proven cases of LLLT achieving over 30db for example?

Michael Zazzio reports on his website the best result from his clinic to be improvement of 42 dB.

"The so far best treatment result for age related hearing loss (presbycusis) at the Audio Laser Clinic is an improvement of 42.73 dB HL on the left ear. The audiograms below display the patient's hearing capacity before therapy (the audiogram to the left) and the hearing capacity after therapy (the audiogram to the right). That patient was treated 20 sessions during two months in the autumn of year 2016."

http://www.alir.nu/eardis.html

 

[Ed209]

Michael Zazzio reports on his website the best result from his clinic to be improvement of 42 dB.

"The so far best treatment result for age related hearing loss (presbycusis) at the Audio Laser Clinic is an improvement of 42.73 dB HL on the left ear. The audiograms below display the patient's hearing capacity before therapy (the audiogram to the left) and the hearing capacity after therapy (the audiogram to the right). That patient was treated 20 sessions during two months in the autumn of year 2016."

http://www.alir.nu/eardis.html

Are these results repeatable, or are they few and far between? I'm genuinely curious, because when I looked into LLLT a year or so ago it didn't show much integrity. Am I doing it an injustice or do a lot of you believe in it. Obviously my ears don't need it, but I find the science behind stuff like this interesting.

 

[briano]

I'd just like to point out that my audiogram improved by 15db at some frequencies, and an average of 10db, by doing nothing at all. I don't think audiograms are the greatest measurements to be honest.

If I'm being honest I'm skeptical about LLLT. It seems like an easy way to make money selling these lasers to people desperate for a solution. I don't mean to be negative, but that's how I see it.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I hope you prove me wrong and you find some relief.

Here's my audiograms:

BEFORE
View attachment 12394

AFTER

View attachment 12395

Hi Ed,

Since my noise induced hearing loss from about 2 years ago, I've shown no hearing improvement or change. I decided to try LLLT. If I get any improvement at all, it will most likely be because of the the laser. Trust me, I'm not encouraging anyone to buy a laser. I may get no improvement at all. I decided that I wanted to give it a try rather than do nothing. Either way, I hope that my results will help others to make their decision on whether or not to make a laser purchase.

 

[Ed209]

Hi Ed,

Since my noise induced hearing loss from about 2 years ago, I've shown no hearing improvement or change. I decided to try LLLT. If I get any improvement at all, it will most likely be because of the the laser. Trust me, I'm not encouraging anyone to buy a laser. I may get no improvement at all. I decided that I wanted to give it a try rather than do nothing. Either way, I hope that my results will help others to make their decision on whether or not to make a laser purchase.

I know you're not Briano, and I hope it works for you I really do.

 

[briano]

I know you're not Briano, and I hope it works for you I really do.

Thanks, Ed. I really struggled with the decision to buy Dr. Wilden's laser. It was expensive and I was afraid of it being a scam. Although the purchase of it was scary (I had to do a bank transfer rather than use a credit card), it worked out perfectly fine. Dr. Wilden himself was in constant contact with me the whole time. If the laser doesn't end up working for me, I don't necessarily believe it to be a scam. Maybe it just doesn't work on everybody. I don't know. Either way, I'm going to let everyone know what my results are and hopefully that will help people make their own decisions.

 

[GregCA]

I'm genuinely curious, because when I looked into LLLT a year or so ago it didn't show much integrity. Am I doing it an injustice or do a lot of you believe in it.

There is scientific data published about it. Just look it up.
One example. Randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled.

The issue is that you will find people that will tell you that the studies are not conducted with the appropriate protocol (how often, for how long, what intensity), so always take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Ed209]

There is scientific data published about it. Just look it up.
One example. Randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled.

The issue is that you will find people that will tell you that the studies are not conducted with the appropriate protocol (how often, for how long, what intensity), so always take it with a grain of salt.

I read some of those studies way back Greg, and all I remember is a lot of contradiction.

 

[GregCA]

I read some of those studies way back Greg, and all I remember is a lot of contradiction.

I couldn't find a lot of contradiction as I read them today. I just grabbed a handful that came from my search on pubmed and they all seem to concur on efficacy. Maybe I picked an "unlucky set".

I did find studies with promising improvements, but they were on animals.

 

[Ed209]

I couldn't find a lot of contradiction as I read them today. I just grabbed a handful that came from my search on pubmed and they all seem to concur on efficacy. Maybe I picked an "unlucky set".

I did find studies with promising improvements, but they were on animals.

You're probably right Greg. I haven't looked into it for a long time. It was back when I was still looking for cures and all I remember is reading papers saying it didn't work, and then others saying it did. My memory tells me that it was mainly on the didn't work side.

 

[lymebite]

all I remember is reading papers saying it didn't work, and then others saying it did. My memory tells me that it was mainly on the didn't work side.

There is a long thread about LLLT (with 1,858 posts so far!) here:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...for-tinnitus-—-experiences-dr-wilden-etc.295/

As far as dueling studies go, many of the ones with positive outcomes, including Dr. Wilden's results (with quite a lot of detail presented), are posted here:

http://www.healinglightseminars.com...y/ear-hearing-loss-tinnitus-menieres-disease/

 

[GregCA]

As far as dueling studies go, many of the ones with positive outcomes, including Dr. Wilden's results (with quite a lot of detail presented), are posted here:

http://www.healinglightseminars.com...y/ear-hearing-loss-tinnitus-menieres-disease/

Wilden's study is of course interesting, but he doesn't seem to have a placebo group, so we can't tell if improvements are due to the laser or due to nature's healing with time. Many people report improvements (I think @Ed209 was one of them) without LLLT.

And even in Wilden's study, the improvements range from 5 dB to 11 dB (in the high frequencies), which - many audiologists will tell you - fall within the "statistical uncertainty due to the measurement methods".

Paired with the fact that he has a financial tie with the subject matter, I am not super excited about it (which is a shame - I really want this to work).

 

[briano]

Just had my 6 month audiogram since using Dr. Wilden's laser. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any real improvement. I'll be sending him a message to see what he has to say about this. In the meantime, I will still continue to use the laser. I hope that my results (or lack thereof) can help people decide if laser treatment is for them. I'm a bit down...but I am not out. Let's see what Dr. Wilden has to say.

 

[linearb]

Wilden's study is of course interesting, but he doesn't seem to have a placebo group, so we can't tell if improvements are due to the laser or due to nature's healing with time.

that's not why placebo control is important; any given condition will be more likely to improve given some medical attention than it would on its own, even if the medical attention is snake oil, healing crystals, etc. The mind is incredibly powerful.

this book is probably good reading for anyone dealing with annoying health problems:
https://www.amazon.com/Suggestible-You-Curious-Science-Transform/dp/1426217897

 

[GregCA]

that's not why placebo control is important; any given condition will be more likely to improve given some medical attention than it would on its own, even if the medical attention is snake oil, healing crystals, etc. The mind is incredibly powerful.

I don't know that anyone computed that likelihood (so I'm not sure what you use to support your statement). Some treatments can be detrimental to your situation (from a physiological/biological point of view), no matter how much positive thinking goes along with it.

What I meant to say is that what's useful to figure out effectiveness of treatment is to have a control group that gets nothing (only time), a placebo group that gets a sham treatment, and a group that gets the real deal. Wilden doesn't seem to do that.