Earplugs Making Hyperacusis Worse?

[Michael Leigh]

No, I wish it was the way you say it is Michael, I really do. But for someone with pain hyperacusis, more pain is not the answer.

Please peruse my posts that I have written in this forum @volterra, not once have I said a person should endure pain or discomfort when using sound therapy. There is a right way to use sound therapy and there is a wrong way.

I totally understand that some people can have very severe hyperacusis as I once did, when in conversation with anyone I had to ask them to please lower their voice because my ears were in pain. I have never said treating pain hyperacusis was easy. It is something that takes time to treat and where necessary, a person may need to seek the help of an audiologist that specialises in tinnitus and hyperacusis management. In addition to using sound therapy, the person may need counselling and medication because this isn't a quick fix. It took me 4 years to habituate to tinnitus the second time, so I know about the long haul.

Michael

 

[BrysonKingMe]

@Michael Leigh, you're a blabbering idiot.

You get called out on your complete and nonsense cure for severe pain hyperacusis, and because you never experienced anything close to like what @Brian Newman is talking about, you say that he's being disrespectful.

No, Brian is suffering, I am suffering on a lesser level, I have been homebound for 5 months, every time I try and do anything the pain just gets worse. You are the problem.

I wish you well and good day.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I am surprised myself and frustrated by my own actions. A lot of it has a mental aspect for sure,

I know I'm dealing with this the wrong way and habituation would be almost impossible like this. But it's a mental struggle I'm having issues with, as always your comments and support are greatly appreciated.

You have come to realisation that tinnitus and hyperacusis can have a profound effect on our mental and emotional well-being. The way to deal with this is not to push yourself too hard and accept that the healing process takes time. You will get there, believe me, but you must believe in this too. It took 4 years for me to habituate for the second time but this doesn't mean the same will apply to you. My ENT consultant and audiologist said I have a severe form of tinnitus that they rarely see in other tinnitus patients.

When you are seen at ENT and Audiology under the NHS, accept whatever treatment is available. In the meantime try to engage in things you like to do or take up a new hobby or interest. This will help to instil positive thinking because the healing process starts within the mind. Please print and read my posts: Tinnitus and the Negative Mindset, Acquiring a Positive Mindset. These posts are a form of counselling. Try and refer to them often or whenever you are not feeling at your best.

Use noise reducing earplugs but try not to become too dependent on them. Remember to use a sound machine by your bedside at night or attach it to a pillow speaker to provide low-level sound enrichment.

I wish you well,
Michael

 

[eagerUser]

Let's be friends.

I believe that everyone on this forum tries to help others in his/her own way.

No single person in this f* world can tell you what makes you worse or better. While sound therapy works for some, silence works for others.

As I said, I believe that silence and anxiety made my hyperacusis with pain worse. I could use vacuum cleaner with no problem at all but now that sounds like a jet engine and results in aural discomfort!

@Michael Leigh, I truly appreciate your efforts to help others and your valuable contents.

@Brian Newman, I totally understand how hard you try to save people from making their symptoms worse.

You guys are both valuable members of this forum and your experiences apply to lots of people out there but it's just that no single recipe works for all unfortunately.

Fighting each other is not the thing that we all are looking for.

Sending you all positive vibes.

 

[Brian Newman]

@Michael Leigh, you're a blabbering idiot.

You get called out on your complete and nonsense cure for severe pain hyperacusis, and because you never experienced anything close to like what @Brian Newman is talking about, you say that he's being disrespectful.

No, Brian is suffering, I am suffering on a lesser level, I have been homebound for 5 months, every time I try and do anything the pain just gets worse. You are the problem.

I wish you well and good day.

There's no convincing these people bro. Thanks for commenting though.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

I will always call out someone speaking complete nonsense.

@Michael Leigh is saying his pain hyperacusis was severe, and saying sound therapy will work for people who get pain from low level sounds.

My God, if only all the people homebound knew of this cure.

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Michael Leigh, I truly appreciate your efforts to help others and your valuable contents.

Thank you for your kind words @eagerUser. I visit this forum to help people that are having difficulty coping with noise-induced tinnitus, with or without pain hyperacusis. This is my area of interest and I have experience in this field. I will correspond with people that are respectful but won't engage with anyone that tries to derail what I am doing and therefore, have taken the appropriate action as I've previously done by placing troublemakers on ignore.

I am sorry to know your oversensitivity to sound has increased. Try not to worry about this as it can it can cause undue stress and anxiety. Your situation can improve so all is not lost. Start using low-level sound enrichment as I have described in many of my posts, and talk to your doctor about the way you feel.

Take care and wishing you all the best,
Michael

 

[volterra]

I totally understand that some people can have very severe hyperacusis as I once did, when in conversation with anyone I had to ask them to please lower their voice because my ears were in pain.

If you were out and about talking to people, you didn't have severe hyperacusis.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To @Brian Newman and @BrysonKingMe:

This sums up @Michael Leigh:

"A Poster Named Michael Leigh;
When Faced With The Likes Of Just Me;
Was Wrongly Contentious,
And Oh So Sententious,
To Such An Ignoble Degree."

 

[Michael Leigh]

If you were out and about talking to people, you didn't have severe hyperacusis.

If you want to be facetious towards me @volterra, then go ahead and I shall not reply to you. If you want to learn something about noise-induced tinnitus and pain hyperacusis and how to treat these conditions, then you will listen to my advice and fellow veterans in this forum that have had this condition for many years. I have never said I was out and about talking to people, but I know most people don't live by themselves in complete isolation and never communicate with anyone. I am willing to help you if you wish but anymore insolence, and I shall give you a wide berth and if you persist in annoying me, I will place you on ignore.

Good day and I wish you well,
Michael

 

[BrysonKingMe]

Rob x 2 @Michael Leigh.

 

[Brody11]

I do not have any data for you to read, because I help people based on personal experience, for I have lived with noise-induced tinnitus for 27 years.

@Michael Leigh, I would like to thank you for contributing to helping people with tinnitus and hyperacusis.

But here's a major problem as I see it. Since you have no studies or data to support the assertion that there is a connection between someone's level of sound exposure and pain hyperacusis (and to my knowledge, no relevant studies exist on this matter), all you can do is rely on the anecdotal evidence of your own personal experience and the experience of others you have talked to. But the problem with anecdotal evidence is that others like @Brian Newman have contradictory personal experiences. So who is right? Some seem to benefit from sound therapy, CBT, and your opinions, while others do not. There could be countless reasons for this: there could be different underlying causes of hyperacusis between cases, there could be different levels of severity or damage, treatments could simply be a placebo for natural healing, and so on. But unfortunately, why some people have success with these methods while others do not, remain mostly a mystery until further research can be done.

Consequently, I think the reason that many people get upset over your posts is that the way you write makes it sound like you are providing 100% factual information that is supported by accurate and up-to-date research, but in reality, you're only relying on the experiences you and some others have had, while not acknowledging in your posts that you could be wrong or that your advice may not be relevant to the person you are talking to. I don't know if this is actually your intention or belief, but it's merely the feelings I get when reading your posts.

I believe substantially fewer people would find your posts contentious if you stated more often that your advice related to hyperacusis and noxacusis is only based on your and some others' experiences, while also conceding in the same post that some others have benefited from different advice (like being in silence until the pain is gone). For example, sound therapy never worked for me, but I always try to be neutral and make sure that I tell new people that get hyperacusis, that some benefit from sound therapy, CBT, medications, silence etc., while others do not.

Overall, hyperacusis is an incredibly complex, understudied, and individualistic condition, so we should not be telling people there is a certain right way to heal. We should provide a neutral list of possible treatments, and let them experiment with them and decide what works best themselves.

 

[Jerad]

Rob x 2 @Michael Leigh.

Rob and Michael fundamentally disagree on headphone use. Rob says they're okay and that he even uses them routinely. Michael is against them in all ways, shapes, and forms. I agree with Michael on that one. But just wanted to point this out, as some people have speculated before that Michael is really Rob, as he admits he's using a different name than his real one. The only way he could be Rob is if he's trying to mislead people with advice that's rooted in malicious intent, which I don't think is the case. Michael really believes in what he says, it seems, and is trying to help people, just like Rob. Rob is a charlatan, in my opinion. His bad advice caused me to go from mild to severe and lose my life. If it were up to me, he'd serve hard jail time for all the lives he's destroyed. Rob's flaw is that he believes in a one-size-fits-all approach with hyperacusis and sound therapy. He doesn't believe that noxacusis warrants a different approach. And therefore, he preaches heresy.

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Michael Leigh, I would like to thank you for contributing to helping people with tinnitus and hyperacusis.

Thank you for your kind comments @Brody11.

Please peruse my post history and you will see, I have mentioned many times, the advice I give in this forum is not absolute because we are all different. I don't think it's necessary for me to write this in every post and thread that I submit to this forum. The person whom you refer to in your post knows this, for I have corresponded with him on more than one occasion when he was more respectful.

I know about the severity of his condition and therefore, the advice I give to people about hyperacusis, whether severe or not, does not apply to him. Furthermore, I was not corresponding with him and yet, whenever I write something positive in order try and help a person that has difficulty coping with hyperacusis, at lightening speed he's ready to dismiss it.

This person and the rest of his cohorts, are only interested in beating the negativity drum morning, noon and night, and spreading doom and gloom. I don't think this is healthy for one's mental and emotional well-being. Believe me I know how severe tinnitus and hyperacusis can be and that is the reason I visit this forum, to try and help people that are in distress with these conditions.

Thank you once again for your kind words,
Michael

Rob and Michael fundamentally disagree on headphone use. Rob says they're okay and that he even uses them routinely. Michael is against them in all ways, shapes, and forms. I agree with Michael on that one. But just wanted to point this out, as some people have speculated before that Michael is really Rob, as he admits he's using a different name than his real one. The only way he could be Rob is if he's trying to mislead people with advice that's rooted in malicious intent, which I don't think is the case. Michael really believes in what he says, it seems, and is trying to help people, just like Rob. Rob is a charlatan, in my opinion. His bad advice caused me to go from mild to severe and lose my life. If it were up to me, he'd serve hard jail time for all the lives he's destroyed. Rob's flaw is that he believes in a one-size-fits-all approach with hyperacusis and sound therapy. He doesn't believe that noxacusis warrants a different approach. And therefore, he preaches heresy.

To @Jerad, I haven't a clue what you are talking about when you say Michael is really Rob. If you are referring to me, Michael Leigh, then I assure you I am not Rob, I don't know who Rob is. Michael Leigh is a pseudonym, as I prefer not to use my real name on the Internet.

Regarding headphone use. I have said in many of my posts, a person that has noise-induced tinnitus risks making it worse if they continue to use them even at low volume. Some people that have noise-induced tinnitus are able to use headphones without any adverse affects. However, things can suddenly change so there is no guarantee their tinnitus won't get worse even after habituation has been reached. Type headphones in the search box at the top of this page and read the posts, from members that have noise-induced tinnitus and returned to using headphones after habituation, only to find their tinnitus increased.

Michael

 

[eagerUser]

I am not going to say who is wrong, who is right, who is backed by science, who is anecdotal, but I believe silence didn't work for me and made everything more complicated but after all I tried it!

I tried to see if silence works for me or not and unfortunately it didn't but exposure to safe noises works for me.

Please don't tell me that my case is not backed by science. What is science? How much do scientists know about our situation! Why are you against scientists when it comes to a treatment but you ask for a reference when it comes to anecdotal things! Weird!

F* those MF* scientists. Do what works for you. Try a safe version of both exposure and silence and see what improves your situation.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

Rob and Michael fundamentally disagree on headphone use. Rob says they're okay and that he even uses them routinely. Michael is against them in all ways, shapes, and forms. I agree with Michael on that one. But just wanted to point this out, as some people have speculated before that Michael is really Rob, as he admits he's using a different name than his real one. The only way he could be Rob is if he's trying to mislead people with advice that's rooted in malicious intent, which I don't think is the case. Michael really believes in what he says, it seems, and is trying to help people, just like Rob. Rob is a charlatan, in my opinion. His bad advice caused me to go from mild to severe and lose my life. If it were up to me, he'd serve hard jail time for all the lives he's destroyed. Rob's flaw is that he believes in a one-size-fits-all approach with hyperacusis and sound therapy. He doesn't believe that noxacusis warrants a different approach. And therefore, he preaches heresy.

They are the same person, he changes his writing style completely, and his advice. He speculated that the user @Bam was using two accounts, when there was no reason to think that whatsoever. I'm positive it's the same person.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To @Brian Newman, @BrysonKingMe and @volterra:

Excellent point about how "There is no convincing these people" - it only underscores the heartbreaking degree to which tinnitus will drive sufferers to imagine that even a chock-full-of-pseudoscience character such as Michael Leigh can (as some sort of last-resort alternative) wield advice of any real value.

Their crucial flaw is that their sheer desperation compels them to assume that, since every ENT Doctor (apparently universally) flatly states that there is nothing that can be done about this, then (because it has to lie somewhere) there is some helpful recourse contained in @Michael Leigh's advice.

Did you know that, when a hornet invades a beehive, the bees do not directly attack the wasp but wall it up with wax?

Let's do the same regarding @Michael Leigh. It's amazing how much stress he causes decent, intelligent, well-meaning posters who attempt to call him out for all sorts of pernicious nonsense. In fact, because he has been so provocatively obnoxious to (I kid you not) perhaps as many as 100 like-minded posters ever since he got on Tinnitus Talk, I have asked myself the quite sinister question about whether (for whatever reasons) he actually derives some sort of pleasure from willfully antagonizing us (which tells you all you need to know about the reality of his vaunted "success"regarding habituation.)

So, let's wall off this annoying tinnitus-inducing hornet and concentrate on mature, non-injurious methods of coping.

 

[Brian Newman]

To @Brian Newman, @BrysonKingMe and @volterra:

Excellent point about how "There is no convincing these people" - it only underscores the heartbreaking degree to which tinnitus will drive sufferers to imagine that even a chock-full-of-pseudoscience character such as Michael Leigh can (as some sort of last-resort alternative) wield advice of any real value.

Their crucial flaw is that their sheer desperation compels them to assume that, since every ENT Doctor (apparently universally) flatly states that there is nothing that can be done about this, then (because it has to lie somewhere) there is some helpful recourse contained in @Michael Leigh's advice.

Did you know that, when a hornet invades a beehive, the bees do not directly attack the wasp but wall it up with wax?

Let's do the same regarding @Michael Leigh. It's amazing how much stress he causes decent, intelligent, well-meaning posters who attempt to call him out for all sorts of pernicious nonsense. In fact, because he has been so provocatively obnoxious to (I kid you not) perhaps as many as 100 like-minded posters ever since he got on Tinnitus Talk, I have asked myself the quite sinister question about whether (for whatever reasons) he actually derives some sort of pleasure from willfully antagonizing us (which tells you all you need to know about the reality of his vaunted "success"regarding habituation.)

So, let's wall off this annoying tinnitus-inducing hornet and concentrate on mature, non-injurious methods of coping.

I agree. I just think it's time we end hyperacusis and tinnitus gaslighting and search for things that actually help hearing damage, not retraining the brain, TRT, or positive thinking, we all need actual treatments that treat hearing damage and lower tinnitus volume, and improve the pain in our ears, or pain from sound. No more of this crap with the brain. I'm sick of it. Ears can get hurt like any other organ and it's the only one people take as a complete joke. Never heard of somebody with liver damage being told to retrain their brain and drink more alcohol to treat it? Imagine.

I've been around the fitness industry for a while and spent lots of time studying the human body. I've been dealing with hearing damage for 8 years now. I know for damn sure that when you damage an organ, it's never the same again and no CBT, positive thinking, or retraining your brain is going to fix that. It just sucks this is the only organ that has 0 treatment whatsoever and the only one associated entirely with the brain being the one at fault. It really sucks, I don't have to explain it to you, you seem like you understand it entirely.

It's time for the world to move on, if people can believe there's 50 different genders out there, then they sure as hell better believe you can get horrible pain in your ears and screeching tinnitus that never goes away.

 

[Nick47]

No, I wish it was the way you say it is Michael, I really do. But for someone with pain hyperacusis, more pain is not the answer.

I'm in agreement here, especially given recent scientific findings. I think the answer is low level sounds that you can tolerate. This may mean a quiet room as there is no such thing as no sound, unless you are in a soundproofed room. A quiet room will still be 20-30 dB, and if that is all you can tolerate for now, so be it. The thing is we know regular blocking of hearing with hearing protection causes hyperacusis and central gain. So it's a case of avoiding pain and not blocking the hearing I think. You could at the same time try low-dose Nortriptyline + low-dose Naltrexone?

 

[DeanD]

If only we knew whether protecting ears outdoors at 50 dB - 60 dB due to sound reactive tinnitus works for it or against it (yes it is very much a thing, coming from a guy with 45 years of experience with this condition in all its guises).

Wearing earplugs or earmuffs brings occlusion and a spike, but without, the tinnitus shrieks for days at minimum.

Maybe there is no right or wrong, but we live in a data driven world, except where tinnitus and hyperacusis are concerned - then we have no meaningful comparison data whatsoever.

 

[chinup]

I don't believe it's just an ear damage thing. I was injured by electric guitars. I can tolerate machines and engines in the same frequencies at high decibel levels. The second someone plays distorted electric guitar I get a setback, even if it's 1/4th the volume of a motorcycle engine that just passed me by without issue. That makes no sense. It should be much worse from the motors and scraping metallic industrial sounds.

Another anecdote: I worked on desensitizing on a Vizio soundbar. Now I can listen to music through that soundbar at a decent volume. I tried the same music with a Sony soundbar and even at lower volumes it hurts. It's the exact same music at a much lower volume across all frequencies, it shouldn't affect me.

Other people's ears get severely damaged by loud noise and never get hyperacusis or even tinnitus. They just lose hearing. I think in our case both the ears and the brain are malfunctioning. All of our ears are definitely damaged, there's no doubt about that because none of us were born with severe hyperacusis or tinnitus and we can all pinpoint moments in life where the damage occurred, either thru ototoxic medicines or noise injuries. But the fact that most other people can sustain these same ear injuries without getting these torturous conditions makes no sense if it's all just ear damage.

It isn't like other conditions. If you have genetically injury-prone knees or back, or genetically weak vision — damage to those body parts can put any healthy person in your exact situation. Why is this not the same with hyperacusis? You can deafen someone with music or loud gunshots or whatever and there's a sky high chance they *won't* get hyperacusis, even though their ears are objectively even more damaged than our ears are. It's baffling.

 

[haha ear go eeee]

I don't believe it's just an ear damage thing. I was injured by electric guitars. I can tolerate machines and engines in the same frequencies at high decibel levels. The second someone plays distorted electric guitar I get a setback, even if it's 1/4th the volume of a motorcycle engine that just passed me by without issue. That makes no sense. It should be much worse from the motors and scraping metallic industrial sounds.

Another anecdote: I worked on desensitizing on a Vizio soundbar. Now I can listen to music through that soundbar at a decent volume. I tried the same music with a Sony soundbar and even at lower volumes it hurts. It's the exact same music at a much lower volume across all frequencies, it shouldn't affect me.

Other people's ears get severely damaged by loud noise and never get hyperacusis or even tinnitus. They just lose hearing. I think in our case both the ears and the brain are malfunctioning. All of our ears are definitely damaged, there's no doubt about that because none of us were born with severe hyperacusis or tinnitus and we can all pinpoint moments in life where the damage occurred, either thru ototoxic medicines or noise injuries. But the fact that most other people can sustain these same ear injuries without getting these torturous conditions makes no sense if it's all just ear damage.

It isn't like other conditions. If you have genetically injury-prone knees or back, or genetically weak vision — damage to those body parts can put any healthy person in your exact situation. Why is this not the same with hyperacusis? You can deafen someone with music or loud gunshots or whatever and there's a sky high chance they *won't* get hyperacusis, even though their ears are objectively even more damaged than our ears are. It's baffling.

Too bad we can't get a brain MRI done, right? I totally agree with you though.

Someone on here was saying that our weirder symptoms, like visual snow, seem to correlate to a mild traumatic brain injury or concussion. It could explain why people can get hyperacusis from severe stress, brain injuries, and neck trauma.

It would be so helpful if we could pinpoint what in our brain "shifts" when we develop hyperacusis.

 

[Jupiterman]

we know regular blocking of hearing with hearing protection causes hyperacusis and central gain.

I think you are saying that a reduction in central gain reduces loudness of tinnitus?

Has anyone got experience, or success, from exposing to sound and obtaining reduced loudness of tinnitus?

 

[gameover]

I think you are saying that a reduction in central gain reduces loudness of tinnitus?

Has anyone got experience, or success, from exposing to sound and obtaining reduced loudness of tinnitus?

My experience may be unreliable and anecdotal but I reduced use of hearing protection - basically down to 26 dB musician earplugs only when driving and in restaurants and my hyperacusis improved and my tinnitus got overall quieter. It could be a coincidence though. Before I was using earmuffs around house to limit annoying sounds of traffic outside.

 

[Nick47]

think you are saying that a reduction in central gain reduces loudness of tinnitus?

Has anyone got experience, or success, from exposing to sound and obtaining reduced loudness of tinnitus?

Palm Springs Hearing Seminar thread had some comments on this. In layman's terms reducing auditory input causes the brain to turn up the amplifier. No idea of effects on tinnitus. I think if you have pain like some, you may have no choice at times.

 

[Jupiterman]

Let's ask the reciprical question:

Has anyone got experience of NOT exposing to sound (over protection) and obtaining increased loudness of tinnitus?

 

[Brody11]

Let's ask the reciprical question:

Has anyone got experience of NOT exposing to sound (over protection) and obtaining increased loudness of tinnitus?

I have pain hyperacusis and tinnitus, and I use ear protection a lot (not 24/7) but quite a bit so my case might be relevant to your question.

Overall, I don't think my tinnitus has changed at all from ear protection. It's the same constant level no matter what. Obviously, it feels louder while I'm wearing ear protection but after I take it off it goes back to normal.

Also, it's worth noting that I don't have loudness hyperacusis at all. My hyperacusis consists entirely of a delayed and lingering ache deep in the ear. And no amount of protecting has caused me to develop loudness hyperacusis or to feel like sounds are louder than normal, which contradicts what audiologists will say what happens if you over protect.

This information leads me to suspect that the pain hyperacusis I have has nothing to do with central gain, which means the common advice like don't over protect, keep listening to sound, and so on might not apply to me or others who have the same problem l.

 

[Nick47]

This information leads me to suspect that the pain hyperacusis I have has nothing to do with central gain, which means the common advice like don't over protect, keep listening to sound, and so on might not apply to me or others who have the same problem l.

Indeed @Brody11, and recent research is starting to back this up with the findings that Type 2 afferrent nerves in the cochlear are present and sending pain signals when exposed to external sound.

 

[eagerUser]

Also, it's worth noting that I don't have loudness hyperacusis at all. My hyperacusis consists entirely of a delayed and lingering ache deep in the ear. And no amount of protecting has caused me to develop loudness hyperacusis or to feel like sounds are louder than normal, which contradicts what audiologists will say what happens if you over protect.

I have always said do what works for you.

I also have pain hyperacusis, not loudness, but my symptoms got worse from being in silence and stress. I think the more I expose myself to safe noises, the better it gets. I have no idea what's going on, or whether mine is related to Type II or middle ear or...

I don't want to say it has something with central gain or something. It's just what I experience but I guess mine has something to do with the middle ear.

 

[Hardwell]

I developed loudness hyperacusis three months ago. I've protected everywhere 24/7, including home. There's things I can't tolerate now that I could a month ago. I also developed eardrum spasms when rustling a crisp packet of sorts which never used to happen. I firmly believe this in my case is due to overprotection.

I had a couple of weeks maybe where I thought my hyperacusis and tinnitus were getting better. But then it got worse, so I think I have the balance way off.