Extremely Reactive Tinnitus and Listening to Music

[another sean]

I am wondering if any with very reactive T has experience with being able to listen to music again without disrupting or worsening their T. I can't hear any sounds from a speaker at any volume without spiking my T and in some cases increasing my base line permanently. But not listening to music for 2 years has become a new growing problem. I used to listen to lots of different kinds of music and they say music creates new pathways in the brain so I have all these pathways that are not being stimulated anymore and its like having a 100o itches in my brain that I can't scratch.

I have thought of buying a old Victrola but you can only find music up to 1960. I got desperate enough into buying a modern record player and using a paper cone to hear the sound. Well, its something and it does stimulate those parts of my brain but its not very enjoyable. So I've been wondering if its possible to completely cut out certain frequencies and if there is a certain type of setup that wouldn't disrupt the areas of my T which is around 11khz. Normal EQ doesnt seem to cut it out completely, just lowers it. I'd need it completly gone and to have speakers not emit anything in that range in the form of electrical noise.

Has anyone experienced similar issues and have they found any kinda of successful work around?

Thanks

 

[Michael Leigh]

I am wondering if any with very reactive T has experience with being able to listen to music again without disrupting or worsening their T.

HI Sean,
You are experiencing hyperacusis (sensitivity to sound) it is treatable and can be cured. Please click on the links below for more information on hyperacusis and treatments for tinnitus.
Michael
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperacusis-as-i-see-it.19174/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-a-personal-view.18668/

 

[Steve Feldo]

Hi Sean, Hi Michael,
I'm really interested to read what you've got to say as I have similar symptoms which come and go alongside my T, and on bad days any sound triggers an increase in my hissing/static head noise. I'd just assumed this was a variation on T and hadn't considered it could be Hyperacusis . It's as bad as it's ever been today, and is worsened by higher frequency sounds and even my office AC. I'm normally able to rely on my maskers to alleviate the symptoms, but today, even they are irritating my ears!

 

[Michael Leigh]

I'm really interested to read what you've got to say as I have similar symptoms which come and go alongside my T, and on bad days any sound triggers an increase in my hissing/static head noise. I'd just assumed this was a variation on T and hadn't considered it could be Hyperacusis . It's as bad as it's ever been today, and is worsened by higher frequency sounds and even my office AC. I'm normally able to rely on my maskers to alleviate the symptoms, but today, even they are irritating my ears!

Hi Steve. I believe you have hyperacusis. One of the best ways to treat it is using sound enrichment. In more severe cases you may need treatment at ENT and being referred to a Hearing Therapist. Cick on the links that I gave to Sean and read the articles. One is on hyperacusis the other on treating tinnitus and also give hyperacusis information.
All the best
Michael

 

[Steve Feldo]

Many thanks Michael, I'll read the articles with interest. I've got a hospital appointment next week with the tinnitus clinic so I'll see what they have to say on the subject too, but it does make sense that it could be Hyperacusis too.

 

[Lazyboy]

Hi Sean,

Just wondering where you are at with the tinnitus and listen to music over speakers spikes? I'm a musician 9 months into noise induced tinnitus with hyperacusis and like you I find any music is now a trigger for a T spike. My own feeling is that most popular music covers a broadband range of all frequencies so listening to music is possibly irritating my hearing at a specific unknown frequency.
Any advice it's making my work as a composer impossible.

 

[JohnAdams]

Getting music back was one of the greatest blessings of my life. Now even stupid songs are like music to my ears.

 

[Lazyboy]

Getting music back was one of the greatest blessings of my life. Now even stupid songs are like music to my ears.

So John how did you achieve that please?

 

[JohnAdams]

So John how did you achieve that please?

My tinnitus has diminished.

 

[HeavyMantra]

Hi Sean,

Just wondering where you are at with the tinnitus and listen to music over speakers spikes? I'm a musician 9 months into noise induced tinnitus with hyperacusis and like you I find any music is now a trigger for a T spike. My own feeling is that most popular music covers a broadband range of all frequencies so listening to music is possibly irritating my hearing at a specific unknown frequency.
Any advice it's making my work as a composer impossible.

Which monitors/speakers are you using?

 

[another sean]

Which monitors/speakers are you using?

I'm not using any monitors right now. I was just using a paper cone on a vinyl record but I recently had acoustic trauma so I can't even listen to that right now. If you are still pursuing something like monitors then my best advice is to find a pair of quality ones with a good clean circuitry, a good DAC (digital to analog converter) and finally a low pass filter that you can run the music through to cut out the upper frequencies completely.

 

[Lazyboy]

Which monitors/speakers are you using?

Hi it does not seem to matter what speakers I use. Even listening to music at low volume 65-70db will set it off. Due to my work I have to listen for extended periods of time throughout the day. Music in any environment is problematic unless it's really quiet. Don't fully understand why but it does spike my Tinnitus for days even weeks if I'm unlucky. I'm over the worst of the initial T & H shell shock but the reactivate aspect of the tinnitus is a real problem. Looking for clues outside the psychological aspect of dealing with this condition.

 

[HeavyMantra]

Hi it does not seem to matter what speakers I use. Even listening to music at low volume 65-70db will set it off. Due to my work I have to listen for extended periods of time throughout the day. Music in any environment is problematic unless it's really quiet. Don't fully understand why but it does spike my Tinnitus for days even weeks if I'm unlucky. I'm over the worst of the initial T & H shell shock but the reactivate aspect of the tinnitus is a real problem. Looking for clues outside the psychological aspect of dealing with this condition.

Sorry to hear that. You may have to get rid of your hyperacusis before you can listen to music freely again.

Does it spike immediately?

I've also barely been able to listen to/create music for a year now. Some speakers gives me ear fullness and ear pain within minutes at extremely low levels.

But I bought a quite expensive monitor system a few weeks ago and once again I can enjoy and create music again. I took a chance and bought the most tinnitus-friendly monitors I could find but I was afraid I wouldn't be able to use them. So far so good at least, we'll see. I've researched this a lot. Let me know if you want some speaker recommendations. There are some very small speakers these days that are designed for low level listening. The problem with some of them is that they still have a very fatiguing/sharp sound, but there are exceptions.

If you don't need a studio flat response there are many consumer speakers with a very soft sound I'd imagine

If you are using headphones, quit immediately.

 

[another sean]

Sorry to hear that. You may have to get rid of your hyperacusis before you can listen to music freely again.

Does it spike immediately?

I've also barely been able to listen to/create music for a year now. Some speakers gives me ear fullness and ear pain within minutes at extremely low levels.

But I bought a quite expensive monitor system a few weeks ago and once again I can enjoy and create music again. I took a chance and bought the most tinnitus-friendly monitors I could find but I was afraid I wouldn't be able to use them. So far so good at least, we'll see. I've researched this a lot. Let me know if you want some speaker recommendations. There are some very small speakers these days that are designed for low level listening. The problem with some of them is that they still have a very fatiguing/sharp sound, but there are exceptions.

If you don't need a studio flat response there are many consumer speakers with a very soft sound I'd imagine

If you are using headphones, quit immediately.

I'd be interested in the speakers you recommend.

 

[Lazyboy]

Does it spike immediately?

Thanks for the response - my spike will come on after about 30 mins to an hour of listening to music. If I carry on and continue listening to music in a spike the spike duration can last for a week or more. My speakers are a pair of pro ac DB1 studio monitors I have been using those for the last 15 years. Please do let me know any of the speakers you recommend and I'll check them out.

 

[Lazyboy]

a low pass filter that you can run the music through to cut out the upper frequencies completely

Hi Sean, just seen your reply thanks v much for staring this thread and the reply - did the low pass filter suggestion help with your reactivity?

 

[another sean]

Hi Sean, just seen your reply thanks v much for staring this thread and the reply - did the low pass filter suggestion help with your reactivity?

It helped some for sure. No doubt about it. But not 100% that I was hoping for so I discontinued to be safe. I cut all frequencies above 4 kHz. I think it's worth it for you to try. Tinnitus is different for everyone. The Low Pass filter I used was by Moog the famous synthesizer company, called the MF-101. It's mainly used as a guitar effects pedal but I just ran my audio thru it using 1/4" to 3.5mm jack adapters. I believe it's discontinued but you can find them on eBay.

Make sure you find out what kHz your tinnitus is at so you know what range to avoid. You can either find out thru a extended audiogram or google a tone generator online and match the tone from the generator with your tinnitus.

 

[HeavyMantra]

Thanks for the response - my spike will come on after about 30 mins to an hour of listening to music. If I carry on and continue listening to music in a spike the spike duration can last for a week or more. My speakers are a pair of pro ac DB1 studio monitors I have been using those for the last 15 years. Please do let me know any of the speakers you recommend and I'll check them out.

Well, unless earlier iterations of the DB1 had metal tweeters or some other harsher component, your speaker choice is probably one of the best bets. Some ProAc models (mostly older ones) were known for having harsh treble so it's not impossible that your particular speaker isn't ear-friendly enough. I have ProAc SM100 myself. The only problem with them is that listening on very low levels is harder than with other monitors I've tried. And as you may know, your amps/cables/pre is going to make the sound less or more bright.

I think the only other models to consider are smaller speakers, like Quested V2104 or ATC SCM7 or SCM12. Apart from that, I don't think the speakers is the problem in your case. It's the hyperacusis.

 

[HeavyMantra]

I'd be interested in the speakers you recommend.

Since your problems are so different from mine I can't really guess how any speaker would affect you, but definetly go for small speakers with soft dome tweeters if you're going to try at all. Also, trying unorthodox speaker placement like having them behind your head can help some people

I mentioned a few models in another reply

I've never tried it but some people put a tissue over the tweeters to make the treble softer

 

[HeavyMantra]

I've only had my speakers for about 2 weeks so I'm far from sure that they are safe to use yet. My tinnitus doesn't spike from them directly, my tinnitus never spikes in that manner. It just fluctuates/changes with sleep. Still, my tinnitus has been a bit worse since I got the speakers. Then again, when I spent months and months without music it still got this bad many times.

 

[Lazyboy]

trying unorthodox speaker placement like having them behind your head can help some people

Hi thanks all this is helpful you guys are fighting the same workarounds with trying to listen to music again that I am.
I have resorted to turning my speakers side on pointing towards the acoustic panels in my studio so I don't get the tweeter beaming directly into my bad ear. Also I think Sean's idea about notching out my tinnitus frequency from the audio output is great, definitely worth a try. I'll report back if any of this works! May take a while as I'm currently in spike mode & waiting for that to level off.

 

[HeavyMantra]

I sometimes wish that my T spiked directly from sounds, that way I would KNOW that my speakers/music is to blame. I have no way of knowing if listening to music is going to hurt my ears or not. Right now there's only uncertainty.

I seem to get mild ear fullness from using my speakers after just a few minutes even at 60 dB. Though I don't know if this is psychological or not since I always approach music with a lot of anxiety these days. Other days I can listen to them for hours much louder without any ear fullness.

I will say this though: the ProAc SM100 lets me listen to music on days when I have T because it feels like my T and the sound from the speakers are "serparate". With some other speakers I've tried, my T and music simply could not tolerate each other. In the long run I hope I will be able to listen to these speakers freely.

So full of regret over my noise trauma. I never thought this situation was possible, that music feels completely out of reach. This is my main source of anxiety now rather than the T itself. Music has been my life for 20 years. Life is so incredibly empty without it. I have also lost all other hobbies because of other health issues. So empty. And then the agony of the ringing on top of that. I don't think I will ever attach myself to anything again if this situation doesn't resolve. Perhaps there will be some freedom in not having anything to lose.

I hope the situation improves for all of us. Tinnitus is horrible enough but I do feel that for musicians there's a whole other dimension of awfulness on top of it.

 

[Lazyboy]

I always approach music with a lot of anxiety these days

Totally agree! Loud music caused my tinnitus and seems to make it spike so I'm wary of it. I am thinking about leaving music alone for a extended period & see how I go much as that idea frustrates. Thanks for being so open, I don't know any other musicians in this predicament your similar experiences are helpful.

 

[Samuel Greene]

Hi all, also a musician, former amateur recording engineer and mixer and now trying to improve my musical skills and get into composing. I am learning theory, composition and how to play piano currently. I've had ringing for nearly ten years. Went to see the ear doctor a few years in to check if there was any hearing loss, but that came back negative. At points I have been so hyperfocused on the ringing and the thought that it will always be with me and avoided noises, always had earplugs handy.

Eventually I just accepted it and time moves on. Now and again it flares up, but it isn't a focus. My Mother has tinnitus as well and says her Mother did as well. I wonder if I caused it or if it's hereditary. I was always the one in rehearsals with earplugs in while my friends went without, but I did have more than 10 feedback experiences and another time a guy threw a string of fireworks under my lawn chair, which was around the time it all started.

I also mixed music for some local bands and delivered pizza for a few years - drove around listening to late 90s metal.

Anyway, I started back up with music production two months ago and thought the ringing was getting worse. Had a couple chirps in the left ear. End up going to see the starwars movie without any earplugs. Plug my ears for a few scenes as it's just extended high SPLs. I was so sure it would be bad the next day, but it was actually better - very low level ringing. However the next day I was working on a piece of music and played it back a few times late at night with headphones on and immediately ringing was back. I felt stupid for being hopeful and then stupid for listening to those mixes. I know the feeling of loss that you may not be able make music the way you did before and wanted to share my story up to now. It can be very hard sometimes experiencing something in isolation.

I ordered an SPL meter today and want to see what 85dbl sounds like. Audio engineers say you can mix that long for 8 hours a day without damage. I've also heard it recommended that you buy smaller speakers and a subwoofer to work at lower levels, so will be looking into that. I've been monitoring on Event 20/20s and used Sony MDR type headphones sometimes. I am constantly listening to podcasts and music most of the day at work with beats x earbuds. I'll probably go see the doctor and have my hearing checked again soon to see how that is going. I want to transition to making music over the next 10 years, getting into music licensing and composition, but this is the one thing that is causing me doubt. I hope all of you see improvements in the future.

 

[Jeebs]

@another sean - Your post is somewhat hurtful to read for me as I love music a a lot myself and the thought of someone so desperate for musical enjoyment to resort to a paper cone vinyl player really makes me sad to my heart.

If it is not to intrusive of me to ask: How does your Tinnitus behave exactly? Is it very specific frequencies that set you off which you can also pinpoint, a somewhat broader range of frequencies, or any kind of synthetic loudness from a speaker?

If you need to cut out specific frequencies, one idea to at least consider would in my opinion be a professional grade digital equalizer. They can cut pretty much every band of frequency as demanded down to (I believe) -120dB. You could also look into building custom speakers to fit your needs (this remains to be a treasured hobby of mine) or get them build by someone else. Contrary to @Samuel Greene I would not recommend smaller speakers as they tend to attenuate medium to high frequencies. My first guess would be a larger woofer and a midrange speaker abused as a tweeter which will give very soft but possibly still noticable and possibly non-intrusive highs. This would however include a lot of trial and error to find a working setup and possibly not be the best sounding result out there.
Considering your low-pass-filter: If higher frequencies than your T-spike-frequency are tolerable for you again, you could have a DIY filter custom build. These are very easy pieces of electronic and you could adjust the cutoff-frequency and filter slope (google translated that term so take that with a grain of salt) to you specific needs. Even with high quality electronics this should not cost more than 100$ to be soldered by an enthusiastic engineering undergrad.

These are just some late-night thoughts by an also somewhat suffering music enthusiast. Feel free to drop me a PM if you want to talk about any of this!

Best wishes to all the music lovers out here!

 

[Samuel Greene]

@another sean - Contrary to @Samuel Greene I would not recommend smaller speakers as they tend to attenuate medium to high frequencies.

I think this is why I have liked the smaller speakers in the past - they can operate in their sweet spot at a lower volume and possibly sound better. Attenuating HF/MF means LF is increased (right?), which is why I'm sometimes turning up my speakers - to hear what is happening in the low end. Or maybe I have a misconception - interested to learn more about this.

I was listening to this series by a long time mixer yesterday. The linked video describes mix position and how your brain adapts to the environment it is in. I found it very helpful - he mentioned smaller speakers, which is why I felt confident to mention it. He goes into speaker setup and the importance of triangulation - having the same distance between your speakers and your ears - example: 24 units between your speakers and then 24 units between your left and right speaker (tweeter cone) and each ear. I realized just how poor my new setup (last 3 years) is. The speakers are close together and above me. I am farther away than I should be - producing a muddy sound, leading to not being able to discern details, resulting in me turning up the volume to hear details. I stood up and positioned my head perfectly and the difference was amazing, the stereo sound field came together and I could pick out issues much more easily - for example a wrong note - which instrument is playing it?

 

[HeavyMantra]

Just quickly, this is such a great thread so far... Let's keep it going

My issues are maddening because my tinnitus fluctuates a lot. About 40 percent of the time I don't hear it outside even in quiet environments and not over low music. it's basically my idea of being cured if it would stay that way.

But the rest of the time, it's loud. I hear it over everything, an electric buzz at around 14 kHz. I log what I do to see some kind of pattern. As you might imagine, on quiet days I often work on music. And almost always, my tinnitus is loud the day after. And it probably still would be had I spent the day in silence. I've spent months barely listening to music and my tinnitus still fluctuated like this during those months

Even so, I always get really anxious when it comes to exposing myself to music. I think I'm traumatized in a way because my favourite thing in the world turned on me. I got tinnitus when recording vocals for 2 days with in-ear monitors, the happiest I had been in years. One week later it appeared during a mushroom trip. Hence the deep imprint this traumatic experience has left in me.

Every time I try to work on music now I think my mind reacts in a bad way, trying to avoid the traumatic stressor again. I think my problems with my speakers are largely psychological. But there are also physical sensations like ear fullness and intermittent pain. Again, this is not a direct effect of music. I get it anyway but it impedes listening.

 

[HeavyMantra]

For mixing or just hearing things clearly, I doubt you could do better than Amphion One15 or One18. They work just as well at 60 db as on 80, and a lot can be discerned at even lower levels.

But many people report having issues with tinnitus and hyperacusis from them. Even people that don't have issues otherwise. So after 2 months with them I let them go. But sitting here with the ProAcs, I'm not sure they don't aggravate my ears almost as much. The don't work very well at extremely quiet levels like the Amphions. Easier to listen to though.

I still wanted to mention them because for someone the lowest possible volume might be the key to being able to listen at all. They also make consumer speakers.

Many people think that the metal tweeter, woofer and enclosure is what makes them fatiguing and hard on the ears. Also, many people WITH tinnitus use them without issues.

 

[HeavyMantra]

He goes into speaker setup and the importance of triangulation - having the same distance between your speakers and your ears - example: 24 units between your speakers and then 24 units between your left and right speaker (tweeter cone) and each ear. I realized just how poor my new setup (last 3 years) is.

One trick people have mentioned is to point the speakers behind your head instead. 1m or so to start with. Some people experience less fatigue that way. This would probably work best with speakers that have a narrow dispersion. My monitors have a pretty wide dispersion so pointing them behind my head doesn't sound change much.

I've also heard of people having the speakers behind them. Not an easy way to mix but perhaps a solution for some ears.

 

[HeavyMantra]

I think this is why I have liked the smaller speakers in the past - they can operate in their sweet spot at a lower volume and possibly sound better. Attenuating HF/MF means LF is increased (right?), which is why I'm sometimes turning up my speakers - to hear what is happening in the low end. Or maybe I have a misconception - interested to learn more about this.

Sealed boxes like ATC or the ProAc Tablette are probably better for low level bass performance. I've experienced this with Amphions. My ProAc SM100 can't do that, probably because it has a port. I think sitting further away from them and listening a bit louder is going to solve this, but that's another story.