Feeling Great After 15 Clinical Low-Level Laser Treatments (LLLT)!

#31
I just talked to Dr. John Lieurance by phone 1/2 hour or so ago. I'm not sure what to think of laser treatment? He just said I would have to be there for 2 weeks.

I sent my audiogram and filled out a short questionnaire yesterday.
 
#32
just1morething said:
I just talked to Dr. John Lieurance by phone 1/2 hour or so ago. I'm not sure what to think of laser treatment? He just said I would have to be there for 2 weeks.

I sent my audiogram and filled out a short questionnaire yesterday.
Click to expand...
LLLT is a scam so don't bother. Sticking a light in your ear is gonna do shit.
 
#33
ajc said:
LLLT is a scam so don't bother. Sticking a light in your ear is gonna do shit.
Click to expand...
I'm not totally sure. I read about a study where it was used with positive results. I'm a bit desperate and hate waking up to noise every morning.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3063436/

Excerpt from above:
Conclusions
In conclusion, low-level laser therapy can offer significant benefit in treatment of tinnitus. In addition, we assessed the treatment effect in different gender, job, and age categories. Further experimental studies specially randomized controlled trials are needed to assess the effect of these factors on the treatment efficacy.
 
#34
just1morething said:
I'm not totally sure. I read about a study where it was used with positive results. I'm a bit desperate and hate waking up to noise every morning.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3063436/

Excerpt from above:
Conclusions
In conclusion, low-level laser therapy can offer significant benefit in treatment of tinnitus. In addition, we assessed the treatment effect in different gender, job, and age categories. Further experimental studies specially randomized controlled trials are needed to assess the effect of these factors on the treatment efficacy.
Click to expand...
I am desperate too...

If money is not an issue... we'll that is a big influence on one's decision.

I am saving up for hearing aids... I got to get some in the new year... my hearing's shot.

Maybe we will get lucky over the next decade, maybe not...

LLLT has had ages to prove its efficacy... good luck bro.
 
#35
just1morething said:
I'm not totally sure. I read about a study where it was used with positive results. I'm a bit desperate and hate waking up to noise every morning.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3063436/

Excerpt from above:
Conclusions
In conclusion, low-level laser therapy can offer significant benefit in treatment of tinnitus. In addition, we assessed the treatment effect in different gender, job, and age categories. Further experimental studies specially randomized controlled trials are needed to assess the effect of these factors on the treatment efficacy.
Click to expand...
After thought...

Perhaps because your tinnitus is related to your jaw and muscles, I.e. you respond well to steroids, this treatment may be beneficial for you because of your subgrouping.

Maybe that's why Scotty responded so well to the treatment... because he had suffered a physical injury and it helped reduce inflammation and promoted healing.

Another spin to ponder. If you do go, make a Holiday of it and go when it's cold in your home town.
 
#36
Daniel Lion said:
After thought...

Perhaps because your tinnitus is related to your jaw and muscles, I.e. you respond well to steroids, this treatment may be beneficial for you because of your subgrouping.

Maybe that's why Scotty responded so well to the treatment... because he had suffered a physical injury and it helped reduce inflammation and promoted healing.

Another spin to ponder. If you do go, make a Holiday of it and go when it's cold in your home town.
Click to expand...
Mine could be related to my left TMJ but also could be from HF hearing loss. ENT's say the latter. I can't stand my current static sound in my head.

I'm going to a chiro tomorrow and supposed to hear from the place in Florida by email shortly. If I knew LLLT would calm my static down I would go in a heartbeat but I don't know. That's why I asked for references. Silverstein is in Sarasota also so why don't they do LLLT?

I'm sure you are suffering big time.
 
#37
just1morething said:
Mine could be related to my left TMJ but also could be from HF hearing loss. ENT's say the latter. I can't stand my current static sound in my head.

I'm going to a chiro tomorrow and supposed to hear from the place in Florida by email shortly. If I knew LLLT would calm my static down I would go in a heartbeat but I don't know. That's why I asked for references. Silverstein is in Sarasota also so why don't they do LLLT?

I'm sure you are suffering big time.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I struggle everyday. Some kind of optimism, acceptance, threshold for pain keeps me going. My family really helps.

LLLT is just one of those things... it's like a miracle for some people, but most probably not.

Silverstein is a hardcore surgeon, I consider him a genius. He's taught at Harvard Medical School and is very respected. I think laser therapy is on the fringes much like our forays into PRP.

Good luck with the chiro, be careful... I wish you could find someone who did massage and acupuncture, it's less invasive.

Drugs don't really work for me now... ,if I could get my hands on some THC I'd make some edibles and see how that goes. I can score Valium anytime, but don't use it regularly. I have a two day binge every 4 weeks now and find it just puts me to sleep and doesn't soften my tinnitus the way it used to. I also become a cranky shit afterwards.

So what do we do? Coping techniques, healthy food and living, exercise and hoping that the scientists come up with some therapies that can help people with bad hearing loss.
Hearing regeneration drugs, brain drugs, whatever...

I am sorry about the static, I totally understand. I am hoping the tides turn in the next few years... I need, we need, more peaceful pleasant days in our lives.

Sorry for the digression... keep us posted on what you do.
 
#40
just1morething said:
I just talked to Dr. John Lieurance by phone 1/2 hour or so ago. I'm not sure what to think of laser treatment? He just said I would have to be there for 2 weeks.
Click to expand...
I too talked to Dr. Lieurance today. He was a bit abrupt and gave me some numbers that I felt like might be too optimistic/inflated? Was that also your impression...?
 
#41
lcj said:
I too talked to Dr. Lieurance today. He was a bit abrupt and gave me some numbers that I felt like might be too optimistic/inflated? Was that also your impression...?
Click to expand...
Yeah maybe. He cut me off a bit. I thought I was supposed to talk to him between 4-6 EST when he had more time ands was done with patients. Maybe I offended him by bringing up Silverstein Ear Clinic, idk?

Bottom line we need to know the success rate and be sure we are not throwing our money down a rat hole. Either it works or it doesn't. I'm waiting to hear from someone that had the treatment done and their results.
 
#42
lcj said:
I too talked to Dr. Lieurance today. He was a bit abrupt and gave me some numbers that I felt like might be too optimistic/inflated? Was that also your impression...?
Click to expand...
Can he send you the "numbers"... would be great to see.

Does the doctor discuss who benefits the most? What kind of subgroup and conditions etc? Does he have he records or data that can be viewed? Sorry for so many questions.

Thanks lcj.
 
#43
Daniel Lion said:
Can he send you the "numbers"... would be great to see.

Does the doctor discuss who benefits the most? What kind of subgroup and conditions etc? Does he have he records or data that can be viewed? Sorry for so many questions.
Click to expand...

Well the doctor told me over the phone that he had treated over 100 people with tinnitus and about 70% see some kind of improvement with the laser. I asked if medication induced tinnitus responded well and he said it responded at the same rate as other types. He also said for TBI or injury or sinus/allergy/jaw related types he also uses the cranial release technique. And he also offers intranasal exosome therapy (10 billion exosomes) for an additional price ($2500) and has treated tinnitus patients with that in combination with laser. The laser is 25000mW or maybe 250,000mW I can't remember.

That was about the extent of the call. I wish I could verify these details some way... I don't believe he would make such data public if he even has it as I asked him the brand of exosomes and he said it was proprietary until I get the treatment (but not Kimera, he said Kimera exosomes suck).
 
#44
lcj said:
Well the doctor told me over the phone that he had treated over 100 people with tinnitus and about 70% see some kind of improvement with the laser. I asked if medication induced tinnitus responded well and he said it responded at the same rate as other types. He also said for TBI or injury or sinus/allergy/jaw related types he also uses the cranial release technique. And he also offers intranasal exosome therapy (10 billion exosomes) for an additional price ($2500) and has treated tinnitus patients with that in combination with laser. The laser is 25000mW or maybe 250,000mW I can't remember.

That was about the extent of the call. I wish I could verify these details some way... I don't believe he would make such data public if he even has it as I asked him the brand of exosomes and he said it was proprietary until I get the treatment (but not Kimera, he said Kimera exosomes suck).
Click to expand...
Thanks for following up...

70 percent is a pretty darn big claim. Honestly I have not come across many formal published trials on this technology... I like doctors who record data, and contribute it for the benefit of medical advancement and of course their own reputation and career. They don't have to do formal studies, just be transparent with their data.

The cranial release technique sounds very interesting and potentially really helpful for people whose problems originate in this part of the body. It just sounds really therapeutic and good.
I have done a fair bit of reading here on the forum on people's experiences of LLLT. My impression would be the numbers would be reversed, 20 percent max satisfied and 80 percent no effect. I have not done a statistical analysis and I am biased and dubious of LLLT. I have profound hearing loss, I just can't see it helping with hair or nerve regeneration... it could possibly help wounds, inflammation... much the way heat can help backache (forgive my spelling, no spell check and I cant find my dictionary).

So yah...I am stumped... but always curious and happy if something helps somebody here...
Thanks again for chasing down some answers and am always interested in your opinion and take on things.
 
#45
lcj said:
I meant the cranial release. There's a chiro here who does it but I'm not sure if it's safe or effective.
Click to expand...
I saw a physical therapist that works with cranial alignment and it helped. He recommended NOT having the balloon done though.

Specifically I had the sphenoid bone aligned. I'm not going to lie. It's a painful experience, and each time I did it I had very strong spikes that started later that night and lasted about a day. But each time they faded, I did feel better. I went a handful of times. This guy treats a lot of musicians in NYC.
 
#47
These threads are maddening to assess. I don't want to sound flippant but placebo is a hell of a drug and the price of this treatment is a lot more than even something like Lenire.
 
#48
If you can't get to Florida for this treatment, there are a few options. I contacted LumoMed and they sell a home laser for $3500. They said the home laser's wavelength is 660 nm vs. the pro model which is 905 nm and 808 nm. The wavelength seems to match the Konftec laser that others have mentioned on Tinnitus Talk.

I tried something in my area today that is similar to the LumoMed. It's called red light therapy and the wavelengths are very close to the LumoMed. I can get fifteen treatments for about $1000. It has a face panel that I can position close to my ears. Not a laser but close.

Screen Shot 2019-10-04 at 9.12.59 PM.png


IMG_2624.jpg
 
#50
LumoMed Testimonials

Christa (50)

For years I had various complaints: a shrill pound in the left ear, as well as pain in the knee and the hip joint due to a misalignment after a car accident. I had to constantly take painkillers and also a homeopathic injection which helped me only a short time.

Already after the 3 laser treatment, the whistling sound has become quieter and less frequent. After further sessions, the noise disappeared completely.


Alfred (75)

I came for treatment of my bilateral tinnitus. It was gone after the fifth treatment.


Asta (66)

I came with my daughter to treat her tinnitus. After a week of therapy, my daughter noticed positive changes.


M. Ribic (60)

In October 2005 I suffered sudden hearing loss and pressure in my left ear. I could hear a buzzing noise. I felt dizzy. In the Emergency Room the doctors told me I did not have any hearing loss, but that my ear canal needed to be cleaned. I went to an ENT who treated me with infusions for 10 days – without success. After a nuclear spin tomography and middle ear surgery, my condition was no better. On the contrary, I also got an infection. As a last resort, my ENT suggested I wear hearing aids. In my despair I began looking on the internet and found the Lumomed website. I contacted the doctor and he was very helpful. I began to protect my ears against noise. Then I decided to go for the treatment. I noticed improvement quickly. The pressure and the noise in my left ear began to disappear, as well as the dizziness. My overall hearing improved significantly. I even had to turn the radio and the TV down!


G. Fiedler (46)

My complaint started in May. First my ear felt blocked, then pressure and hearing loss. After 4 weeks I began to hear a noise, sometimes loud, sometimes quiet. Four weeks later I had the first symptoms again, but worse with dizziness, nausea and vomiting. The ENT doctor did not help. After 2 weeks of laser therapy the pressure and noises went away. I could hear better, and the dizziness disappeared. At home after two weeks the dizziness came back just as bad. After 12 weeks they came only once a month. 6 months after the laser therapy I had the last attack.


Daniel

Daniel had early onset hearing loss in both ears. After only a few treatments we noticed an improvement.


Maria 72

For a year I had painful tinnitus. It went away after the laser therapy. Now it only comes back if I get very stressed.


Mrs. K.

For years, I had an increasing pressure on my ears with dizziness, headaches, and deafness. Day and night there was a humming, whistling, and hissing like a swarm of wasps in both ears.

After 20 treatments I am free from headaches and dizziness. I can hear again and the annoying sounds are almost gone.


Anna H.

Since I was 4 years old I had vertigo with nausea, and Menieres.
For 35 years I suffered, and it was getting worse. I suddenly lost my hearing three times. I had no quality of life.

After the first series, I went 7 months without any episodes, and I could hear better. I am now returning for a second series.
 
#52
As with any of these 660nm devices -- you can easily replicate this at home for a couple hundred bucks tops, with a rudimentary understanding of the way light interacts with tissue.

That REDCharger is super funny because I have literally been pricing our similar COB panels for an unrelated project, and you could probably build the thing for the cost of four treatments, if you had an old bench or table laying around.

vttbx said:
If you can't get to Florida for this treatment, there are a few options. I contacted LumoMed and they sell a home laser for $3500. They said the home laser's wavelength is 660 nm vs. the pro model which is 905 nm and 808 nm. The wavelength seems to match the Konftec laser that others have mentioned on Tinnitus Talk.
Click to expand...
This makes... absolutely no sense at all. You can trivially and cheaply get LED arrays at any of these wavelengths. For a few hundred you could build a switchable device that would do 660, 905 and 808 either together or separately.

I do think that there are things to IR light and tissue healing and maybe even other cellular mechanisms which are not fully understood, or, in some cases, understood at all -- but, if they are "not understood" by clinical researchers with post-docs and no financial stake in the tech, then they are definitely not understood by random scammy companies selling "novelty devices" which they are forced to market that way, because their complete lack of evidentiary support means you'd never be able to sell them as "medical devices".

Absence of a positive is not proof of a negative. However, we have a good number of peer reviewed RCTs like this one
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3658388/

5. Conclusions
No statistically significant effect of LLLT on auditory function was found, as assessed by pure-tone audiometry, speech understanding, and TEOAEs. Additionally, no individual subjects showed any clinically significant change. It remains possible that other methods of LLLT could have an effect on hearing. Further research elucidating the anatomic and physiologic bases for therapeutic effects of LLLT on hearing are needed before further clinical testing is warranted.
Click to expand...

If people want to try this, by all means, do -- I have a 66nm LED array myself. That I paid under a hundred dollars for, and which is likely as/more powerful than the individual arrays pictured here. So, if you want to try this, do, but just do some reading and buy some gear off amazon, it's better than giving money to people who are selling something they don't have.

But, if you're not convinced -- I will be happy to build you something that looks, functions and draws the same power as the REDCHARGER for only $2200, an amazing savings of $1300 to you! Then I will pocket $1800 of that and use it to buy a used snowmobile and a better chainsaw.
 
#57
just1morething said:
LumoMed Testimonials

Christa (50)

For years I had various complaints: a shrill pound in the left ear, as well as pain in the knee and the hip joint due to a misalignment after a car accident. I had to constantly take painkillers and also a homeopathic injection which helped me only a short time.

Already after the 3 laser treatment, the whistling sound has become quieter and less frequent. After further sessions, the noise disappeared completely.


Alfred (75)

I came for treatment of my bilateral tinnitus. It was gone after the fifth treatment.


Asta (66)

I came with my daughter to treat her tinnitus. After a week of therapy, my daughter noticed positive changes.


M. Ribic (60)

In October 2005 I suffered sudden hearing loss and pressure in my left ear. I could hear a buzzing noise. I felt dizzy. In the Emergency Room the doctors told me I did not have any hearing loss, but that my ear canal needed to be cleaned. I went to an ENT who treated me with infusions for 10 days – without success. After a nuclear spin tomography and middle ear surgery, my condition was no better. On the contrary, I also got an infection. As a last resort, my ENT suggested I wear hearing aids. In my despair I began looking on the internet and found the Lumomed website. I contacted the doctor and he was very helpful. I began to protect my ears against noise. Then I decided to go for the treatment. I noticed improvement quickly. The pressure and the noise in my left ear began to disappear, as well as the dizziness. My overall hearing improved significantly. I even had to turn the radio and the TV down!


G. Fiedler (46)

My complaint started in May. First my ear felt blocked, then pressure and hearing loss. After 4 weeks I began to hear a noise, sometimes loud, sometimes quiet. Four weeks later I had the first symptoms again, but worse with dizziness, nausea and vomiting. The ENT doctor did not help. After 2 weeks of laser therapy the pressure and noises went away. I could hear better, and the dizziness disappeared. At home after two weeks the dizziness came back just as bad. After 12 weeks they came only once a month. 6 months after the laser therapy I had the last attack.


Daniel

Daniel had early onset hearing loss in both ears. After only a few treatments we noticed an improvement.


Maria 72

For a year I had painful tinnitus. It went away after the laser therapy. Now it only comes back if I get very stressed.


Mrs. K.

For years, I had an increasing pressure on my ears with dizziness, headaches, and deafness. Day and night there was a humming, whistling, and hissing like a swarm of wasps in both ears.

After 20 treatments I am free from headaches and dizziness. I can hear again and the annoying sounds are almost gone.


Anna H.

Since I was 4 years old I had vertigo with nausea, and Menieres.
For 35 years I suffered, and it was getting worse. I suddenly lost my hearing three times. I had no quality of life.

After the first series, I went 7 months without any episodes, and I could hear better. I am now returning for a second series.
Click to expand...
Why don't we have any of those on the forum here? Do we?
 

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