Feeling Great After 15 Clinical Low-Level Laser Treatments (LLLT)!

You are beyond entitled to all of the above, @ajc... I know how it can look as I am “only 6 months in”, but I have only gotten worse over these 6 months with multi-tone reactive tinnitus. I also know for a fact I had inner ear damage in my right ear resulting in SSHL in very high frequencies. This reactive tinnitus that can shoot lightening in my ears and brain up to 16 kHz from SSHL doesn’t just “go away”, I’ve read enough on here from many suffering for years to know how this can go. With all of that, I also know western medicine is nowhere near helping me. Yes, Dr. Shore’s device is hopefully on its way, but if I were to be asked “okay honey, what is your tinnitus tone for us to play into you ear?” I would laugh and then cry because I don’t just have a tone. I have 4-6 sounds. Changing beeping and electrical sounds at different frequencies and levels. So as much as I want to think at least one of my “tones” could be mitigated, I couldn’t look to that as my light of hope.

There is so much to be said regarding the use of stem cells and exosomes, and no, I don’t look to western/traditional medicine to give me those insights. They have too much money to make through things like hearing aid industry, chemo drugs, and antidepressants to cure things. But you know what, it’s all good. I will be a guinea pig with our money while we wait another 8-10 years for something to maybe happen on the traditional “healthcare” front.

 

Yes, the same as you. These people/we are in distress and suffering. Some waste money on nonsense based on almost nothing or a planted testimonial. I don't blame them.

The sad part is it's the researchers who could help us, but due to lack of - you guessed it - funding, they can't, when the money has gone to charlatans instead (stem cells, Mr. Mimbo Jumbo Jimbi Jam, laser, acupuncture, chiropractors, herbs, etc.)

 

This condition is extremely torturous, so I don’t blame people for trying anything to help them. Hopefully @ErikaS has good results to report back to us.

There should be a lot more positive testimonials eager to talk to anyone. I wonder if Lilia Kay would be willing to talk about her experience? Her short testimonial is below. It was from treatment at Advanced Rejuvenation.

I'm so happy with my treatments for Tinnitus, and would reccomend anyone who is looking for a natural healing. —Lilia Kay

 

Thank you, @just1morething. I just remembered that one of the nurses said they had a few patients on a list that were willing to discuss their experiences and outcomes. I will email Tara and inquire about that list.

 

A question for @ajc and @Nick47:

If you were offered, for free, the treatments that @ErikaS has just received, would you take up the offer?

 

Good question lol.

 

I wouldn't. Not enough evidence available to go and have my eardrums pierced and middle ear filled with goop, veins filled with "ozone" and ear canals lit with some "laser" -- or whatever the science fiction treatment here again entails...

Just because western medicine does not have a solution for us, it does not make me want to go and support (even if no money is exchanged) these actors who have found a niche to make a lot of money from unproven treatments. I think that is exploitation of people's misery and desperation, I do not like it.

 

Then why are you following this thread? OK, you don't agree with it, fair enough...

 

I just wanted to express a differing point of view and urge people to think twice before parting with their cash. If nobody with a critical eye chimed in, there's a risk this thread could have turned into a major advertorial for "Dr. John".

But I will now bow out and I hope @ErikaS gets all the improvement she needs, were it placebo or natural improvement (doesn't really matter which as long as it happens!)

 

I will take your well wishes along with the assumption that this is all science fiction when Methylene Blue has been proven for many anti-inflammatory effects and stem cells have given others improvement on Tinnitus Talk and a young woman a substantial amount of her hearing back in 2011 when it was gone in one ear for 3 years and the other started losing hearing 6 months before treatment (I’m referring to the YouTube @attheedgeofscience shared in his stem cell thread).

But yes, thank you for wishing me well

 

I have been critical of Lenire as the only studies available are funded by the makers so they are not reliable and 3000 EUR is a lot for many people to speculate.

But the laser treatment looks like it is going off the charts with expense. I appreciate some people have noticed an improvement. And I saw one study that looks promising - but it is still very speculative. Those who have had improvements may have spontaneously got better anyway.

However, I wish luck to all those trying and I will be watching this thread for news.

 

I can get my hands on Methylene Blue anytime. Has this been proven to work for tinnitus?

 

Yeah, I have to agree with @ErikaS on the fact that there is simply no telling how long we will be waiting on a cure/treatment from the medical field. Outside of Dr. Shore's device, there does not seem to be many things on the horizon for treatments in the near future. I like to be optimistic and think we have tools available today that we did not have 10 years ago but what good are tools if they don't get applied (which the medical field does not seem to be doing).

Sometimes advances in the technology and medical research come from within a community itself.

 

Not directly tinnitus but overall inflammation, autoimmune responses, mitochondrial health and cellular health which are very important with inner ear function.

To take this a step further, there is a clinic called NeuroCytonix that is headquartered in Maryland, but their actual clinical center is in Mexico. This is their information about their intervention:

“Our technology utilizes the combination of magnetic fields and radiofrequency waves to stimulate brain regeneration and restore the broken neural network. The protocols developed helps to improve the quality of life of patients while the brain starts to heal. Mexican regulatory authority COFEPRIS has acknowledged the results of our double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial which provides safety and efficacy data of our biomedical technology for children with cerebral palsy. Studies in the development of protocols for other neurological diseases such as stroke, traumatic brain injury (TBI), as well as neurological complications associated with COVID-19 are in progress.”​

Not only did they show actual data and evidence through a clinical trial with cerebral palsy, but now they are venturing in those other avenues, which is amazing and MAYBE tinnitus would fall under “neurological complications to ons associated with COVID-19”... My point is why on earth would a company headquartered in Maryland decide to place their clinical site in Mexico? Hmmm, maybe it’s because they know it will get approved faster there? The FDA sector there won’t drag them for 5+ years? At some point we have to really look with a “critical eye” to our own medical system(s) and demand some answers as to why we sit here in 2023 with nothing but a possible treatment that may work for a handful of us.

 

All the best @ErikaS. I think people should be able to spend their own money how they like without being judged.

At the end of the day, if people get improvements from these treatments, then great. If not, then at least they can have the peace of mind that they've done all they can to better their lives and improve their quality of life.

Regarding Methylene Blue, how is this consumed? Drops into the ears or orally? I'm from the UK, not sure if I can get my hands on it.

I'd also like to add that I've had 30 HBOT sessions and my hearing has improved. I have hidden hearing loss and understanding conversations was and still kind of is a struggle, but HBOT has definitely improved that and I started treatment outside of the magical 6 month window.

 

Thank you, @James Connelly! You take Methylene Blue orally. The common daily dose is 2 mg per kg of your weight. It comes in liquid form a lot of the time that you can do drops into water and drink, but I got solid form from Dr. John’s office.

 

I am a week past my last intratympanic shots, and my ears are still calming down from it all.

My reactive/sound sensitive tinnitus is sensitive to intratympanic shots, I know this after getting two steroid shots to my right ear a week apart. It just takes some time to calm down but it’s trending that way, I think! The only thing I’m experiencing so far that’s noticeable is what I call a lot of “trouble shooting”. Both ears are making their noises, but I am having many moments of a fleeting tinnitus feeling where the sounds all get quieter for a few seconds in the ear experiencing it, then come back in. Other than that, nothing to report, not that I expect to report anything, if anything, for at least 4-5 weeks from now, maybe even longer. That’s what really hard to truly accept with stem cells/regenerative medicine, the waiting game with no guarantee.

Does anyone think it would be good for me to follow up with an ENT locally, say around a week or two from now, to make sure the holes have completely closed in the eardrums? Not sure I have to since they healed just fine from steroid shots in December, but just an extra step I thought about.

 

I would wait at least 3 months to go see an ENT. But if your audiogram is fine, then it's all about the tinnitus fading.

 

Hey, are you using a hearing test app? There's a really good one called Hearing Test Pro on Google Play. It may be on the Apple Store. It actually goes to the ultra high frequencies. I plan on doing morning and night (before bed) tests every day and posting the results once a week as soon as I can try the IGF-1 treatment I'm hoping to do.

By the way, the best headphones to use in my opinion are these:

OneOdio Wired Over Ear Headphones Hi-Res Studio Monitor & Mixing DJ Stereo Headsets with 50mm Neodymium Drivers and 1/4 to 3.5mm Audio Jack for AMP Computer Recording Phone Piano Guitar Laptop - Black

They made my app hearing tests match my official ones really well. Please make sure that you don't have the volume fully up when you use them for the first time though.

Good luck and take care! Really hope it works out for you.

The people who have said that there isn't any evidence at all, at least for the PRP, haven't used Google. There's a decent amount of studies of efficacy for use on sudden sensorineural hearing loss as a better alternative to steroids, but wether it can treat older damage or not there's not evidence at that level yet. Dr. Minbo Shim and, I think a few others, are the only ones showing that it's possible. Dr. Shim has been at this for nearly a decade now, and hasn't lost his medical license (South Korea is an advanced country with strict medical regulations like we have), so I keep hoping he's onto something, but I agree that there really should be more research such as more clinical trials on this, especially for older damage.

Platelet-rich Plasma and stem cells have already been proven to be effective on older nerve injuries that aren't cochlea-related, so it's a shame that we haven't had that much success here. If Dr. Shim's audiogram examples really are genuine, I would really like to get to the bottom of why they aren't working for people like us.

The low level laser/red light therapy I think may have actually helped my inflammation quite a bit. I am also starting to think it might have actually helped my tinnitus because my ears have been screaming for weeks after I stopped using it. I just think that buying "sessions" from doctors when you can buy them online for home use is a bit wasteful. Unless I am missing something from my AC/DC, Electronics Devices, and Automation classes, home lasers shouldn't be any different. Then again, I am pretty sure I was the one that gave Shim the idea of using them in the first place before I got that far in school, so maybe I should feel silly right about now.

 

Hey! I am not using a hearing test app. I’m honestly just letting my ears settle from everything they went through last week. They are still quite sensitive, so no sounds or beeps being played unless it is to get some residual inhibition to calm my ears when they are revved up. Also, it’s going to take time for the stem cells and exosomes to have their effect, so I wouldn’t expect a change in my audiogram, if there is, for at least 2 months.

Interesting that you said you think LLLT at home has helped your tinnitus, but it’s been screaming for weeks since using it? You’d think it would be the opposite if it helped. Unfortunately, I think my nerves are too sensitive for LLLT, or at least the level of the lasers at Advanced Rejuvenation. That’s what seemed to up my sensitivity and intrusiveness of my ultra high frequency sound(s), so just praying it’s temporary.

I think it’s great the research you’ve done for yourself. Hopefully you can talk to someone who knows the information well and can steer you in a good direction.

 

It's been acting up since I stopped using LLLT. At my community college, I have a course where I have to assemble motors and another where the air conditioning is bothersome, and ever since I stopped using LLLT, my tinnitus has gotten worse and my left ear has been less tolerant. Previously I thought that LLLT helped inflammation but not tinnitus from previous experience, but it might actually have been both this whole time. I'm not really sure sadly.

I hope my research works out for me too. I do worry that fibroblast growth factor (FGF) might be essential in addition to IGF in order to work, but hopefully that's not the case. I keep leaning towards the peptide version of IGF-1 since it's supposedly safer and less expensive, but there's no FGF peptide available with it.

Still, I should be able to get IGF-1 and LLLT together. Although, I might switch a laser that has higher nanometers.

If this doesn't work, I won't give up. Just a minor setback. I will only give up if the PRP/stem cells don't work.

 

@Artemis2K, are you planning on going to Advanced Rejuvenation for treatment? I suppose you are close enough to maybe drive there. Perhaps Dr. John will give you a better rate if you agree to be a testimonial person on his website?

They do PRP injections in India for about $300 per injection. Flying to India would probably be expensive though. I was thinking of using a rowboat to get to India lol.

 

If I could get $300 PRP injections for what it would require, I could probably find myself doing that in India in the near future.

I'm going to get a consultation with Advanced Rejuvenation in a week or two, but I probably won't do that until next year. I'm two months away from graduating for an Associates Degree after years of medical issues, natural disasters, and family tragedies, so I don't have any money right now because I got tired of all that and put 100% of my focus on my education. That said, my degree is worth a lot of pay around here, so I shouldn't have that much trouble saving up for it.

The first thing I'm probably going to do before I graduate is to try the peptide IGF-1 since it's so "inexpensive" and apparently safer than the recombinant version. If you read about IGF-1 alone online on what researchers claim that it can do alone for stereocilia, ribbon-synapse, and support cells, you'd see why. There was even a study where some people that had SSHL for nearly a year either get complete or partial recovery (although a lot got nothing).

I'm hoping that people with noise-induced hearing loss could still get results. Dr. Minbo Shim's examples show people getting good results even a year, but we can't really use him as a reference.

Now that I've corrected myself on the misguided notion that PRP did not have BDNF (I have no idea how I thought that), I am definitely a bit more inclined to try the PRP method if the IGF-1 doesn't work (maybe even if it partially works.)

Lol. Dr. Minbo Shim promised he'd give me a discount if I went to South Korea several years ago. Maybe I could get him to ask Dr. John to do this. My autistic obsession needs to pay off somehow lol.

I'm even considering inventing something that could help ENTs guide the syringes on patients that strangely doesn't exist. Maybe that could help me lol.

As soon as I get the IGF-1 treatment, I'll start posting the audiograms from my app and audiologists. So far the audiograms from my app have matched my audiologist tests.

 

I know what you mean regarding ENTs guiding the syringes. The ENT that did my Dexamethasone injections missed the original hole he made and ran the needle into my eardrum. Eardrums are so sensitive.

I’m not sure what a IGF-1 treatment is or who does them? Is it self-administered somehow?

 

IGF-1, insulin-like growth factor 1, is a growth hormone that helps regulate the human body's division of cells. It helps us grow when we are children, and contributes to our healing ability (nerves, tissue, bones, etc) and muscle growth. People that have a deficiency in it develop many issues including fragile stereocilia. People that have too much of it for long periods of time risk developing cancer or blood sugar regulation issues. It is commonly abused in the sports and bodybuilding industry as performance enhancers.

A writer from Marvel could easily explain that Wolverine simply has superhuman growth-factors that heal his entire body at an accelerated rate and without giving him cancer.

The reason why I am so interested in IGF-1 is because of the studies on nerve repair, particularly everything related to the cochlea. IGF-1 is everywhere in our body, and is one of the growth-factors that make platelet-rich plasma regenerate injuries. This is why I'd prefer doing PRP (it's safer because the IGF-1 is already there along with other growth factors) over the peptide version, but a small dosage of peptide IGF-1 is probably fine. I haven't really researched the safety detail extensively yet, but if people usually only have issues from long term use, then a dosage under 500 micrograms is probably safe. I have a month before seeing that ENT and asking if he'd be willing to do an off-label treatment after showing him the stereocilia papers, so I have time to research that.

 

Seems like you have done a lot. The only things I can add to the list is to be consistent with ear protection and to have a read of the pubmed-literature regarding NAC, Pycnogenol, Taurine, Magnesium, Zinc, and Creatine. As for earplugs, there has never been a downside to using these, but there sure are many downsides to not using them! When it comes to supplements, inducing a biological change may take time. And it may require a different dosage than the standard label instructions. So that's something to consider when reading through the literature. My feeling is that some supplements are not given the credit they may deserve because people quit too quickly or don't know what treatment regimen to follow.

I recall also getting spikes after clinical grade therapy back in 2013. But those spikes were transient. I don't actually know why this is a side-effect of LLLT (and Dr. Wilden didn't elaborate on the matter when I saw him), but one of many things that cold lasers do is to increase nitric oxide in the irradiated tissue (nitric oxide is a vasodilator). Now, those who pay attention to problematic medication (for tinnitus sufferers) will know, that increasing nitric oxide in the blood is the mechanism-of-action behind Viagra. And Viagra has tinnitus listed a possible side-effect.

Anyway... if I had to do it all over again – that is: if I found myself in the same predicament as I did back in 2013, but with the knowledge I have acquired since, I would have opted for at least 15 LLLT sessions (instead of 10) and I would probably expand the therapy to include irradiation of not just the ears, but also the brain (e.g. LLLT has been used in TBI-studies such as this one: Transcranial low-level laser therapy improves neurological performance in traumatic brain injury in mice: effect of treatment repetition regimen).

I can't predict the future. But more likely than not, you will be better in six to 12 months time.

 

Thanks so much for the feedback, @attheedgeofscience!

So, when it comes to earplugs/protection... I have struggled using them because my tinnitus sounds louder with them in and I spike/react through them which messes with my emotional/mental state, so I just try to really modify or control my sound environments and don’t wear earplugs at home or when going to short trips to the store. Is this wrong? I absolutely wore them for the plane rides! But outside of our trip to Florida I don’t really go anywhere loud. No bars, no sporting events, very limited restaurants. I acquired my SSHL in right ear (12 kHz and up) and tinnitus that became bilateral with an ear infection that went into my inner ear, so it was not noise induced as I have honestly always been good to my ears. However, I know damage is damage, but I have yet to “worsen” permanently from noise. Only time(s) my situation got worse was when I caught viruses, which added tones.

I am currently working with a functional medicine doctor who uses applied kinesiology and through that testing I am currently taking NAC, Zinc, Magnesium, and Turmeric. Also doing some detoxing things. But thanks for the information on those supplements. I will look into it!

Unfortunately, I did not have it in me to continue the laser treatments. I was spiking pretty harshly and not coming down the next morning at just 50% power, and I always reset in the mornings after sleeping for the most part so it scared me. I wish I lived down there so I could go like once a week and work my tolerance up.

Thank you again for all the feedback. Means a lot to hear from someone who experienced a similar treatment! I just don’t want to “ruin” anything so I’ve been eating pretty clean, drinking a lot of water, and watching my noise exposure.

 

The rule of thumb I apply is to wear earplugs whenever I leave the house. It's only a matter of time before someone honks their car horn while you are in their vicinity or someone slams a door in your face. Going around unplugged is an accident waiting to happen...

A worthwhile read (with a contribution from Bryan Pollard): That ringing in your ears? Don't assume it will just fade away - The Washington Post

You need to get yourself into the mindset that in 6 to 12 months time, your current state will be a thing of the past. Remember: "Chance favours the prepared mind" — Louis Pasteur, biologist

 

What is your final experience of the SunaVae treatment?

 

I have not experienced any real improvement that I can note. Especially right now, I am in a bit of a spike (traveled over holiday and had a weird reaction to a muscle relaxer). I am aware stem cells can take 3-6 months to show improvement, so I have not lost all hope, but as time moves on with no noticeable changes, you can't help but feel down. I also didn't do the laser treatments like one is supposed to because my ears were just too sensitive, so unfortunately I can't speak on that which is where I think someone would probably notice a more instant or sooner improvement as compared to stem cells.

With all that said, my mental state has taken a hit due to the fact I really have had no steady or stable improvement in the past 4 months, so I am trying to manage my depression right now. Reactive/sound sensitive tinnitus is such an awful beast, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

Many will come here and say "I can't believe she paid that money to do that"... Yep, neither can I. But when you've gone through 3 years of infertility, 5 egg retrievals, losing 2 healthy embryos, losing an ovary, and then evil strikes you with this satanic bullshit, you have no choice but to try things you can to hopefully turn the corner. If you don't have your health, you don't have anything, and fortunately my husband and our family had the funds to try something like this to try to get my health back. I still have frozen embryos waiting for me. I still have pregnancy and motherhood ahead of me. So, I am doing anything and everything I can to become stable enough to become a mother. Do I truly question all of this and think I in no way can climb this mountain in front of me? Yep, I say it every time I cry which is about every other day right now. BUT I keep pushing forward. I keep trying. It's my only option.