Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[AtlasFainted]

OMG, mariachi trumpets are terrible.

The best is when they walk around and play at every single table, so you're guaranteed to be deafened at some point lol.

As a side note, I read somewhere that a significantly large percentage of people who play in brass bands end up getting tinnitus and/or notable hearing loss. It's sad & inconsiderate that they don't teach you to use earplugs from highschool band onwards.

 

[Jaysterk]

I feel like even it does work our ears will still be in a weakened state where it will be easy for us to injure our ears more easily compared to people who don't have tinnitus or hyperacusis.

Or to play devil's advocate, our ears are stronger than normal due to "younger" regrown hair cells...

 

[Lucifer]

Or to play devil's advocate, our ears are stronger than normal due to "younger" regrown hair cells...

Well I do hope that with this drug, our ears will be stronger than normal as well. I also hope that it allows us to be able to stand the same sounds as normal people usually do.

 

[AtlasFainted]

Well I do hope that with this drug, our ears will be stronger than normal as well. I also hope that it allows us to be able to stand the same sounds as normal people usually do.

I think if you have noise induced hearing loss treated with FX-322, it can only help. The new cells aren't going to be weaker than our original ones.

While I'm concerned with synaptopathy still being an issue, I suspect that even symptoms related to that will improve, because of an improved ratio of 'good' to 'bad' synapses.

 

[Lucifer]

Is it possible to inject both ears on the same day or would you need to book another appointment to do the other ear?

 

[Daniel Lion]

I think if you have noise induced hearing loss treated with FX-322, it can only help. The new cells aren't going to be weaker than our original ones.

While I'm concerned with synaptopathy still being an issue, I suspect that even symptoms related to that will improve, because of an improved ratio of 'good' to 'bad' synapses.

Hi AF,

How can we know if they will be weaker or stronger? Nobody knows.

I would suggest that nothing can compare to the original before damage...

I assume new hair cells will be delicate and I will baby my ears if I ever receive this treatment.

Better hearing, less tinnitus is enough for me. How much can we expect?

Cochlear Implants of amazing quality that don't exist now, will be something the user can thrash or expose to noise and simply replace. I really don't think that will be the case with new hair cells.

Purely conjecture... my three cents.

 

[serendipity1996]

In this book ('New Therapies to Prevent or Cure Auditory Disorders' , one of the editors is Richard Salvi, 2020 publication) it talks about cochlear pathology in relation to noise damage to the ear: "Noise exposures can damage many different cochlear structures, including the organ of Corti, neuronal synapses, spiral ligament, and stria vascularis." (pg. 25).

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...EnoECAsQKA#v=onepage&q=kelly radziwon&f=false

I guess I'm just a bit worried about exposure to other cochlear structures and how these are involved in noise-related damage. But then on the flipside maybe I'm just 'intellectualising' things so to speak? I mean, we know Frequency have conducted a great deal of pre-clinical/animal testing and also examining the cochleas of people after they have died right? So surely we would know if that were a major contributing factor. Maybe I'm just getting fixated on things that are largely not clinically relevant or significant.

 

[AtlasFainted]

Hi AF,

How can we know if they will be weaker or stronger? Nobody knows.

I would suggest that nothing can compare to the original before damage...

I assume new hair cells will be delicate and I will baby my ears if I ever receive this treatment.

Better hearing, less tinnitus is enough for me. How much can we expect?

Cochlear Implants of amazing quality that don't exist now, will be something the user can thrash or expose to noise and simply replace. I really don't think that will be the case with new hair cells.

Purely conjecture... my three cents.

I'm sorry but what evidence do you have to suggest that the new cells won't compare to the originals?

I think we do know enough to say that the new hair cells most likely won't be weaker...

They are created by the body from cells that could have become hair cells in the womb, and the new cells will also come with their own fresh synapses. The drug merely triggers the process.

Here are some videos breaking down how it works in layman's terms:

​

To me it seems pretty pessimistic to say that the regenerated cells "won't compare". Everything I've seen so far actually suggests the opposite.

These will be new undamaged hair cells, without any damage to the corresponding synapses.

Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't take care of our ears, even post treatment.

 

[Daniel Lion]

I'm sorry but what evidence do you have to suggest that the new cells won't compare to the originals?

I think we do know enough to say that the new hair cells most likely won't be weaker...

They are created by the body from cells that could have become hair cells in the womb, and the new cells will also come with their own fresh synapses. The drug merely triggers the process.

Here are some videos breaking down how it works in layman's terms:

​

To me it seems pretty pessimistic to say that the regenerated cells "won't compare". Everything I've seen so far actually suggests the opposite.

These will be new undamaged hair cells, without any damage to the corresponding synapses.

Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't take care of our ears, even post treatment.

Hope you are correct indeed.

Sorry if I sounded pessimistic... thanks for the info.

 

[AtlasFainted]

In this book ('New Therapies to Prevent or Cure Auditory Disorders' , one of the editors is Richard Salvi, 2020 publication) it talks about cochlear pathology in relation to noise damage to the ear: "Noise exposures can damage many different cochlear structures, including the organ of Corti, neuronal synapses, spiral ligament, and stria vascularis." (pg. 25).

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mxzZDwAAQBAJ&pg=PP3&lpg=PP3&dq=kelly+radziwon&source=bl&ots=aN6Ygwd6nz&sig=ACfU3U3AGqQyoJ0GeHr0-udlV0OBqSq5QA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC3NLQ0tzoAhWkmFwKHbKSAYEQ6AEwEnoECAsQKA#v=onepage&q=kelly radziwon&f=false

I guess I'm just a bit worried about exposure to other cochlear structures and how these are involved in noise-related damage. But then on the flipside maybe I'm just 'intellectualising' things so to speak? I mean, we know Frequency have conducted a great deal of pre-clinical/animal testing and also examining the cochleas of people after they have died right? So surely we would know if that were a major contributing factor. Maybe I'm just getting fixated on things that are largely not clinically relevant or significant.

My unprofessional opinion is that these other mentioned structures probably wouldn't be of super high concern unless a bomb went off next to your head. ‍

It's easy to get anxious and find reasons something might not work; I think the researchers in the field know what they're doing and are targeting mainly hair cell / synapse regeneration for a reason.

 

[Tweedleman]

I'm sorry but what evidence do you have to suggest that the new cells won't compare to the originals?

I think we do know enough to say that the new hair cells most likely won't be weaker...

They are created by the body from cells that could have become hair cells in the womb, and the new cells will also come with their own fresh synapses. The drug merely triggers the process.

Here are some videos breaking down how it works in layman's terms:

Video summarizing how it was discovered (nutrition is your thing so you'll find the origin interesting)



To me it seems pretty pessimistic to say that the regenerated cells "won't compare". Everything I've seen so far actually suggests the opposite.

These will be new undamaged hair cells, without any damage to the corresponding synapses.

Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't take care of our ears, even post treatment.

I agree, with respect to the newly regenerated hair cells and their corresponding synapses. I see no reason for them to be inferior to the original. I've said it before in this thread, I believe Frequency's "diss" towards Audion, saying that FX-322's method of regenetation (dividing support cells) was "as nature intended" helps support this. I think we will be getting the real deal.

I would suggest that nothing can compare to the original before damage...

Unfortunately I tend to agree with this statement when applied to the whole of the ear. I'm just not sure a regenetated cochlea will be quite the same as the original thing. I hope I'm wrong.

In this book ('New Therapies to Prevent or Cure Auditory Disorders' , one of the editors is Richard Salvi, 2020 publication) it talks about cochlear pathology in relation to noise damage to the ear: "Noise exposures can damage many different cochlear structures, including the organ of Corti, neuronal synapses, spiral ligament, and stria vascularis." (pg. 25).

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mxzZDwAAQBAJ&pg=PP3&lpg=PP3&dq=kelly+radziwon&source=bl&ots=aN6Ygwd6nz&sig=ACfU3U3AGqQyoJ0GeHr0-udlV0OBqSq5QA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC3NLQ0tzoAhWkmFwKHbKSAYEQ6AEwEnoECAsQKA#v=onepage&q=kelly radziwon&f=false

I guess I'm just a bit worried about exposure to other cochlear structures and how these are involved in noise-related damage. But then on the flipside maybe I'm just 'intellectualising' things so to speak? I mean, we know Frequency have conducted a great deal of pre-clinical/animal testing and also examining the cochleas of people after they have died right? So surely we would know if that were a major contributing factor. Maybe I'm just getting fixated on things that are largely not clinically relevant or significant.

This is my worry, too. Based on some of the weirdness that I've experienced since my hearing damage that I can't seem to pin down to hair cell or synapse damage. Like not being able to make out speech when someone isn't facing me. Or why I can't seem to hear speech around objects like I always could. It's like the range of what my ears can each pick up has been narrowed. I really hope I'm wrong and this stuff can be rectified with regenerated hair cells and synapses. But it would be good to have some clarification on how noise exposure can damage these other structures that you've highlighted. Good question for Frequency on the Tinnitus Talk Podcast.

 

[FGG]

In this book ('New Therapies to Prevent or Cure Auditory Disorders' , one of the editors is Richard Salvi, 2020 publication) it talks about cochlear pathology in relation to noise damage to the ear: "Noise exposures can damage many different cochlear structures, including the organ of Corti, neuronal synapses, spiral ligament, and stria vascularis." (pg. 25).

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mxzZDwAAQBAJ&pg=PP3&lpg=PP3&dq=kelly+radziwon&source=bl&ots=aN6Ygwd6nz&sig=ACfU3U3AGqQyoJ0GeHr0-udlV0OBqSq5QA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC3NLQ0tzoAhWkmFwKHbKSAYEQ6AEwEnoECAsQKA#v=onepage&q=kelly radziwon&f=false

I guess I'm just a bit worried about exposure to other cochlear structures and how these are involved in noise-related damage. But then on the flipside maybe I'm just 'intellectualising' things so to speak? I mean, we know Frequency have conducted a great deal of pre-clinical/animal testing and also examining the cochleas of people after they have died right? So surely we would know if that were a major contributing factor. Maybe I'm just getting fixated on things that are largely not clinically relevant or significant.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378595518305902#!

FYI researchers *are* working on regenerating the vessels in the stria. I wrote Dr. Wang (she's an author on the paper I linked) a while ago and she said they are working on getting something clinical hopefully soon with this research (I got no other details). Stria damage has hearing implications but I asked one of my otologist about this and he also didn't think it was directly linked to tinnitus except with cases of hydrops. Also, almost everyone gets some degree of strial atrophy as they age because it's very linked to damage from heart disease/blood pressure issues. If it gets bad enough to lose endocochlear potential, you get losses that look like a "flat audiogram" apparently, which probably few people here have.

Severe strial damage can be correlated with hydrops, though, and uncontrolled hydrops (e.g.. Meniere's) can be related to tinnitus but this tends to need a totally different treatment approach (low salt diet, diuretics, steroids, etc.).

 

[Sevv]

This is my worry, too. Based on some of the weirdness that I've experienced since my hearing damage that I can't seem to pin down to hair cell or synapse damage. Like not being able to make out speech when someone isn't facing me. Or why I can't seem to hear speech around objects like I always could. It's like the range of what my ears can each pick up has been narrowed. I really hope I'm wrong and this stuff can be rectified with regenerated hair cells and synapses. But it would be good to have some clarification on how noise exposure can damage these other structures that you've highlighted. Good question for Frequency on the Tinnitus Talk Podcast.

I thought fusiform cells usually do the job of locating sounds, but in tinnitus they are dysfunctional (hypersynchronous).

 

[GlennS]

If you look at animals that regenerate limbs the regrown limb is not a 1:1 replacement to the original.

It's probably asking too much to think restored hearing will be perfect.

 

[FGG]

If you look at animals that regenerate limbs the regrown limb is not a 1:1 replacement to the original.

View attachment 38040

It's probably asking too much to think restored hearing will be perfect.

Fair point but this approach is regenerating cells, not an entirely new cochlea. FX-322's cellular regeneration is based on what is observed in intestinal regeneration, which is identical to the original cells.

 

[Christiaan]

If you look at animals that regenerate limbs the regrown limb is not a 1:1 replacement to the original.

View attachment 38040

It's probably asking too much to think restored hearing will be perfect.

It may be true, but there are certain animals that have the potential to regenerate parts to a previous form.

 

[Christiaan]

Btw, I am wondering why Frequency Therapeutics is not planning to improve the lower frequencies, up to 1000 Hz for example. Why is that exactly?

 

[Jim51042]

any time I shoot in the future

Regardless of hearing protection it is too risky for your ears to shoot a firearm ever again throughout your life. The only caveat would be if you or a bystander is being attacked by a knife and your life is threatened then sure shoot away.

 

[PhoenixAcademy]

Btw, I am wondering why Frequency Therapeutics is not planning to improve the lower frequencies, up to 1000 Hz for example. Why is that exactly?

Maybe they can't.

 

[PhoenixAcademy]

If you look at animals that regenerate limbs the regrown limb is not a 1:1 replacement to the original.

View attachment 38040

It's probably asking too much to think restored hearing will be perfect.

Hey! I used to have a gecko like that. I miss my little buddy.

 

[FGG]

Btw, I am wondering why Frequency Therapeutics is not planning to improve the lower frequencies, up to 1000 Hz for example. Why is that exactly?

They are probably planning to but the first formulation isn't reported to effect that far into the cochlea. But that doesn't mean after approval they can't re-formulate.

 

[Christiaan]

Maybe they can't.

They are probably planning to but the first formulation isn't reported to effect that far into the cochlea. But that doesn't mean after approval they can't re-formulate.

Thanks for the remarks. Hopefully they will figure it out sooner or later.

 

[Diesel]

Looks like a recent update was made to the ClinicalTrials.gov site. Utah site is no longer there, Austin, TX is added.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04120116

Net result is more sites are recruiting. Salt Lake to Austin means greater population access.

Good news.

 

[PhoenixAcademy]

Can someone explain how this can go through the little membrane? Isn't it holding in fluid that would have a higher pressure?

 

[FGG]

Looks like a recent update was made to the ClinicalTrials.gov site. Utah site is no longer there, Austin, TX is added.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04120116

Net result is more sites are recruiting. Salt Lake to Austin means greater population access.

Good news.

I don't remember Omaha being there before either but maybe I am mistaken.

 

[Stillsearching]

How does one go about signing up to participate?

 

[grate_biff]

Can someone explain how this can go through the little membrane? Isn't it holding in fluid that would have a higher pressure?

Diffusion.

 

[Flyingsheep]

Regardless of hearing protection it is too risky for your ears to shoot a firearm ever again throughout your life. The only caveat would be if you or a bystander is being attacked by a knife and your life is threatened then sure shoot away.

I always seem to find myself in some situation where a loud firearm or equivalent is fired, and yet my ears won't ring or react with any pain. But if I sauté some onions in a frying pan or take a shower they will start ringing with fullness (sometimes for the rest of the day). I still feel like the only one here who has the most illogical reactive tinnitus.

 

[adagio]

I still feel like the only one here who has the most illogical reactive tinnitus.

Mine reacts to trailers going by on the street.

 

[AtlasFainted]

Regardless of hearing protection it is too risky for your ears to shoot a firearm ever again throughout your life. The only caveat would be if you or a bystander is being attacked by a knife and your life is threatened then sure shoot away.

I totally understand the risk here and you're right to be cautious.

However there's not much use in having a gun if you don't practice at least once in a blue moon! Even if you didn't practice regularly, you still have to shoot to qualify for a license to carry.

Firearms are a huge part of my life, I will chance it...

Furthermore, I don't think there is much risk at all if you double up on hearing protection (good earmuffs + plugs) and keep it on religiously from beginning to end of a shooting session.

The above will be my approach & I totally understand if you disagree!

To clarify; most of my gun-related hearing damage isn't from adulthood, but rather from when I was a young child and my niave & negligent dad told me I didn't need hearing protection when shooting. This is after he handed me hundreds of rounds in a bag...