Is it possible that OHC will not be fully capable without a complete three-row arrangement?It depends on who you ask, but how I have looked at these results was the same as Dr. Cliff in the video that @Keith Handy posted, which is the drug seems to prefer IHCs vs OHCs.
IHCs are difficult to test for because you have to lose a lot of them before it shows up. Just like OHCs, it is a cause of tinnitus (there isn't just one structural cause) in individuals who have IHC loss (which you would only suspect if you have lost a lot of them).
I still very much believe the drug grows OHCs too (pre-clinical explant studies show this) but IHCs are preferred first pass and rapid multi-dosing produces worse results. I contend that we therefore cannot conclude what it does for OHCs without multi-dosing at much longer intervals.
Anyway, the problems Frequency Therapeutics has attributed to Phase 2a failure are:
-- Rapid multi-dosing worsening outcomes (which is not that uncommon just based on the fact that more isn't always better for efficacy, e.g., SPI-1005 did worse for efficacy at 600 mg vs 400 mg), even if they don't exactly yet know why (could be anything from overdosing to fluid overload, e.g., inducing temporary mild Meniere's type environment, interfering with signaling, multi factorial?).
-- "Inconsistencies" in word scores that Frequency Therapeutics said they found in medical records vs the baselines. I.e. people worsened their word scores to be selected.
There has been some back and forth about how many people that could possibly be, however, widespread IHC destruction much more commonly happens with severe hearing loss (there are exceptions but it's not the norm) and Frequency Therapeutics selected Phase 2a participants based on excluding people with Severe PTAs (they were put in the severe trial instead) while making low word scores a requirement. They were essentially giving a huge preference to people who would lie about their word scores inadvertently.
There is still a delivery problem below some unknown range between 6 kHz and 8 kHz based on pharmacokinetic data they had released earlier but, ironically, if they are delayed 2 years due to redoing Phase 2 with a different trial design, they may be able to piggy back a better delivery technology (Otomagnetics, less destructive surgery, etc.).
Some people think the Phase 1 and Phase 1b word score results were fraud (I don't at this point) or placebo (I don't believe the placebo effect applies to things that have historically not been possible).
A lawsuit and investigation are two different things.It appears there is an ongoing lawsuit from a group of investors against Frequency Therapeutics.
The investigation concerns whether Frequency Therapeutics and certain of its officers and/or directors have engaged in securities fraud or other unlawful business practices.
Would you like to see Phase 2a validation comparing only the single injection group of FX-322 with placebo, except for patients who appear to have cheated? Formal authentication is not possible, but...My opinion has been lately that it might be that they go with one of two strategies:
A new Phase 2 that includes all designations that have been trialed under the Phase 1Bs. This is the "catch-all" term. Because they're accepting basically all hearing loss classes, there is no incentive to cheat.
or
A Phase 2 that is super focused on a specific hearing loss class that have been observed a being consistently great responders, that are not able to cheat. Like the moderately-severe hearing group only.
In some of the IHC research I posted last week, one goes into the effectiveness of the OHC as wear takes place. The analysis indicated that two functioning OHC appeared to be sufficient to produce no threshold changes on an audiogram. I would take that as there being some redundancy.Is it possible that OHC will not be fully capable without a complete three-row arrangement?
If so, isn't that the reason for the small improvement in PTA?
Why am I not surprised at the moment? It had not just been a bad feeling, I just interpreted things right.It appears there is an ongoing lawsuit from a group of investors against Frequency Therapeutics.
The investigation concerns whether Frequency Therapeutics and certain of its officers and/or directors have engaged in securities fraud or other unlawful business practices.
I think OHC do regrow with FX-322 but it will require multiple doses spaced out even more. Even a month might not be enough to stop the dampening effect from happening which I'm afraid of.Is it possible that OHC will not be fully capable without a complete three-row arrangement?
If so, isn't that the reason for the small improvement in PTA?
When the PTA value deteriorates, does it mean that the OHC in that band has a large number of 0 and 1 columns?In some of the IHC research I posted last week, one goes into the effectiveness of the OHC as wear takes place. The analysis indicated that two functioning OHC appeared to be sufficient to produce no thresholds on an audiogram. I would take that as there being some redundancy.
I think I missed this the first time. That's really interesting. Can you repost and/or tl;dr?In some of the IHC research I posted last week, one goes into the effectiveness of the OHC as wear takes place. The analysis indicated that two functioning OHC appeared to be sufficient to produce no thresholds on an audiogram. I would take that as there being some redundancy.
Looking for it now... Please stand by...I think I missed this the first time. That's really interesting. Can you repost and/or tl;dr?
If it works, I'll wait for a month, two months, three months...I think OHC do regrow with FX-322 but it will require multiple doses spaced out even more. Even a month might not be enough to stop the dampening effect from happening which I'm afraid of.
Same, if it was out I would probably get FX-322 every 2 months to be on the safe side. I'm worried spacing the injections one month apart might not be enough.If it works, I'll wait for a month, two months, three months...
@Diesel, you're a fucking goat. At least there is a chance that IHC may be what is causing our hyperacusis issues. I'm just worried about FX-322 not doing anything for OHCs as we originally thought that may be what is causing hyperacusis.While I look for that OHC research... this is an interesting piece that points to excessive IHC loss leading to Enhanced Central Auditory Gain / Hyperacusis...
Inner Hair Cell Loss Disrupts Hearing and Cochlear Function Leading to Sensory Deprivation and Enhanced Central Auditory Gain
It's a little more complicated than that, unfortunately.@Diesel, you're a fucking goat. At least there is a chance that IHC may be what is causing our hyperacusis issues. I'm just worried about FX-322 not doing anything for OHCs as we originally thought that may be what is causing hyperacusis.
What was the elapsed time for those word score improvements in Phase 1?Same, if it was out I would probably get FX-322 every 2 months to be on the safe side. I'm worried spacing the injections one month apart might not be enough.
That's a really interesting find. In rats, it looks like losing the entire 3rd row of OHCs only changes the audiogram by 5-10 dB per frequency. I wonder how similar that is in people...@FGG, I found it.. I misread... it appears the threshold shift from losing the 3rd row of OHC results in up to 10 dB in rats. Still an interesting read.
Hidden cochlear impairments
I really hope FX-322 regrows OHCs as well. To find out in Phase 2a that it only regrows IHCs makes me worried.It's a little more complicated than that, unfortunately.
While IHCs are linked to loudness hyperacusis, pain hyperacusis seems to b linked to sensitization of nerves associated with OHCs (via a few mechanisms including OHC damage and ATP leakage from tight junctions from inflammation in general).
Day 90, so 3 months.What was the elapsed time for those word score improvements in Phase 1?
No, I'm actually a petroleum-based high-pressure-combustible energy source; but I can see how one might easily confuse the two.@Diesel, you're a fucking goat. At least there is a chance that IHC may be what is causing our hyperacusis issues. I'm just worried about FX-322 not doing anything for OHCs as we originally thought that may be what is causing hyperacusis.
I am struggling to find any sound research that translates the dB sensitivity findings from other mammalian cochlear cells to humans. There's plenty that show the difference in hearing range in Hz. I wonder if it's not all that different?That's a really interesting find. In rats, it looks like losing the entire 3rd row of OHCs only changes the audiogram by 5-10 dB per frequency. I wonder how similar that is in people...
Good find, blows my latest theory to shit, nice to know this kind of testing is being done though. I think I must have massive IHC damage and some OHC damage but I still can't understand how good my audiogram is up to around 12.5 kHz. It must have something to do with the EHF loss (or any dips in the standard audiogram at non-measured frequencies).@FGG, I found it.. I misread... it appears the threshold shift from losing the 3rd row of OHC results in up to 10 dB in rats. Still an interesting read.
Hidden cochlear impairments
Sorry, I thought you meant when the last hearing test was. I think they did Day 15, 30, 60 and 90 for Phase 1b. I think there was an improvement in each time they tested.They didn't test any sooner?
Yeah, I wasn't clear. If they did all these tests along the way and it kept improving, that's reason to believe the drug needs that time to do its work.Sorry, I thought you meant when the last hearing test was. I think they did Day 15, 30, 60 and 90 for Phase 1b. I think there was an improvement in each time they tested.
Can you cite where you read this?Sorry, I thought you meant when the last hearing test was. I think they did Day 15, 30, 60 and 90 for Phase 1b. I think there was an improvement in each time they tested.
That's why I said monthly dosing might not be spaced out enough. If they experience improvements up to Day 90, then maybe FX-322 needs to be injected every 3 months.Yeah, I wasn't clear. If they did all these tests along the way and it kept improving, that's reason to believe the drug needs that time to do its work.