Member- Sep 21, 2016
- 1,051
- Tinnitus Since
- 2011 - T, 2016- H, relapsed 2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- noise-induced
Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration
- Thread starter RB2014
- Start date
I wasn't trying to suggest he leave. An echo chamber isn't good, either. Just frustrated that everything I said was being misrepresented and dismissed out of hand without trying to understand my points.
Keith Handy
Member
- Jan 5, 2021
- 302
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Stress + sleep deprivation + noise
No research team is going to come up with something that treats more than one part of the problem initially. Once there are treatments for multiple aspects of tinnitus, coming from different labs, they could certainly be combined.
- Aug 5, 2019
- 1,852
- Tinnitus Since
- 05/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
To be fair, I think it's good to have a variety of perspectives. I think there's something big that he's missing (I didn't understand this until recently as well).
There's a lot of speculation and theories after the Phase 2a failure. The stuff about inner hair cell prioritization and all of this other stuff is fair, but speculative. Why exactly the trial failed is speculative.
The fact that inner and outer hair cells do completely different things is not. It really is true that someone can hear a word in a perfectly normal volume for them, but it sounds like gibberish. This didn't make any sense to me when I first thought about it. I thought maybe not hearing words was a combination of like straining and lack of clarity. When I really understood what was going on was when I watched Dr. Cliff's YouTube video about how for the WR test, the volume is set at a comfortable level for the listener to normalize for OHC loss.
Even if one takes the most pessimistic view possible, which is that the drug failed or it didn't and no bullshit about it, it's still definitely the case that WR and PTA are measured differently. The nuance to this, though, is that there is a correlation between having both types of loss, even though they are different.
Hypothetically, we should be prepared (we are not there yet, I am not being too bullish too soon) for the first hearing regeneration drug to possibly help one type first. I think PIPE-505 (synapse drug) purportedly may regenerate outer hair cells. Hence, if that drug makes it out of Phase 1, we may see some weird results as well.
To be clear, FX-322 doesn't have results yet. But this distinction is definitely not speculative.
- Aug 5, 2019
- 1,852
- Tinnitus Since
- 05/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
This is spot on. Obviously, we have the power of hindsight so I don't say this as if I predicted it, but their failure is a classical scientific mistake (which scientists make often) of getting too far ahead of themselves. If anything, they should reduce the number of variables even more. Make the goals super attainable and super simple. For now, forget about tinnitus or some cracking the 8 kHz PTA barrier or whatever.
Simple: Word clarity and a robust trial design for proving it, along with education on IHC vs OHC loss if they can make it work.
- Feb 14, 2020
- 1,630
- Tinnitus Since
- 1-2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- 20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
Winner. All reading this thread pro- and con- should understand that this is what much of the discussion revolves around. The expectations should also be that the product itself will probably address a single component of / single initial population of hearing loss.
Regardless of what the drug may or may not have potential for with alternative dosing schedules or even re-formulation, I think it makes the most sense for the company to look towards designing trials for approval for the people with clarity/IHC/word score issues first and then suss out the finer points after that point (and patients themselves would be quick to realize exactly what the drug does and doesn't do).
@Chad Lawton, whereabouts in the Frequency Therapeutics presentation did they mention audiogram improvements in Phase 1b?
If this is true, then it proves both that OHCs can regrow with FX-322 and the positive anecdote of improving in 3 frequency bands.
If they can space out the dosing next time, we would know if it can continue regrowing OHCs.
If this is true, then it proves both that OHCs can regrow with FX-322 and the positive anecdote of improving in 3 frequency bands.
If they can space out the dosing next time, we would know if it can continue regrowing OHCs.
- Aug 5, 2019
- 1,852
- Tinnitus Since
- 05/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
I originally thought there were no audiogram improvements in Phase 1b, but then @Chad Lawton said that there were audiogram improvements.Sad to say, an anecdote can't be a proof
I know the positive anecdote can't be proof but it would be good to find out how many doses of FX-322 he got. He said he may have gotten 2 doses of FX-322 but I have a feeling he may have only got one dose of FX-322. That's why he had improvements in 3 frequency bands.
Tinnitus becomes a brain problem after the ear is damaged. You could cut the auditory nerve and still hear the ringing.
- Sep 21, 2016
- 1,051
- Tinnitus Since
- 2011 - T, 2016- H, relapsed 2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- noise-induced
I don't really think it's a "mistake" on Frequency Therapeutics' part though as FX-322 as it's ultimately a hearing-loss treatment and not primarily aimed at tinnitus.
HootOwl
Member
- Aug 5, 2019
- 1,852
- Tinnitus Since
- 05/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
- Feb 14, 2020
- 1,630
- Tinnitus Since
- 1-2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- 20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
Street Novelist
Member
- Apr 2, 2018
- 293
- Tinnitus Since
- February 2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Listening to loud music through headphones
I don't think there's any way to know that because you can't see inside the cochlea.
I think so far we can tell that IHCs and OHCs were regrown due to improvement in word scores and audiograms. There were also improvement in word scores in noise but I have no clue if that relates to OHC, IHC or synapses.
Words in noise is most linked to synapses (especially in the most important speech ranges) but it's also linked to EHF hearing.
- Feb 14, 2020
- 1,630
- Tinnitus Since
- 1-2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- 20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
If FX-322 shows no change in the upcoming trials, the stock will be worth pennies on the dollar. I guess if you can afford to lose money then go for it. Money would be better spent at the casino.
Technically it could even be related to IHCs reconnecting and resynapsing too. It's probably the least useful of the test for localizing overall imo.
- Aug 5, 2019
- 1,852
- Tinnitus Since
- 05/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
FGG is a credentialed audiologist with a YouTube series. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Also, I wouldn't exactly consider an elite meth cooker to be a "wannabe."
Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!
Similar threads
