Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[Nick47]

Carl LeBel end.

 

[ajc]

 

[Artemis2K]

Wow. This is immeasurably disappointing. I'm glad they were trying though, and it's good that at least some people had results.

My mother's boyfriend had some noticeable results in a macular degeneration clinical trial before that got shut down. Clearly even the most promising can end up a failure.

I'm not mad at Frequency Therapeutics. I don't think they were fraudulent. Failures are a part of science. It is very unfortunate that this would happen.

Hopefully their myelination research works out. Then they could end up trying again in the late future. Although, I can see the lawsuits hurting them even further whether they had good intentions or not.

Sigh. Welp. On to watching Decibel Therapeutics and Spiral Therapeutics more closely.

 

[Nick47]

Sigh. Welp. On to watching Decibel Therapeutics and Spiral Therapeutics more closely.

Why?

 

[RingingBrother]

Did they say if anyone at least had any improvement in the trial?

 

[ThomasRobert]

Best is to rest this thread at this page no. 666.

 

[Artemis2K]

Why?

Because I hate my unilateral hearing loss and related issues and would rather cling onto some form of hope rather than being depressed all the time with a desire to burn everything like I used to. That's why.

Also because the potential of scientific innovation is comforting to me. Makes me think the world is less of hellhole to live in.

:/

People deserve hope, illusion or not.

 

[Fightthearmy]

View attachment 53385

He did what he had to.

 

[scotty03874]

@Chad Lawton, are you selling now? What a shame!!!

@Pharz, you are very rude to rate my posts as funny. Just because I lost a little money. I need the write-offs anyways. But we ALL lost FREQ now. Money I have plenty of. I own three cannabis dispensaries in MA.

I think you're just jealous I can afford to invest in a company which I hoped would succeed and potentially treat tinnitus and hearing loss.

What's not funny is we lost FREQ... Money comes and goes, no biggie.

 

[just1morething]

What about the person interviewed by CBS? I thought he had great results with FX-322 injections. I never bought FREQ stock, but lost a ton of money trading commodities in the past. It's easy to become a compulsive gambler.

I have a static sound today that is bothersome. I do have an occasional day of quiet, but noise comes back upon awakening.

 

[Jurger]

Well that's the end of that journey. I came back onto Tinnitus Talk in 2018 after my left ear went from moderate-severe to severe-profound hearing loss, and FX-322 was still in its early days of being announced.

I think the lessons I learnt are as follows:

1. Joining online tinnitus communities as an echo chamber or to read the repeated phrase "I hope" with regards to an unproven unreleased drug is not a wise use of time nor is it a good distraction from tinnitus which is hard enough to distract from as it is, if not practically impossible, so why make that task even more difficult.

2. Real scientists are in a lab. Message board "scientists" read too much research papers and medical journals. The human mind thinks deep and the hypotheses are endless - there are more things to life than reading what TinnitusLord3435's "scientific" conclusion is.

3. People go to extreme lengths to create reason to believe in something that gives them hope for the outcome they desire. There was some serious copium at times.

Something may come for us or it may not. Live life as however much you possibly can (in terms of how much this condition allows you) - with the notion things may improve, it may stay the same or it may become worse. Any breakthroughs in our lifetime to improve the situation by this point, to me, is a bonus, not an expectation. Probably the best way I can keep on going.

I am sorry we go through this. I wish you all the best.

Fully agreed. I thought something was weird when they kept changing the goal posts after every trial. They already did that in 2019 when almost nothing showed up on the audiogram in the first Phase 1/2.

And some people here did not want to have an honest debate about that.

 

[UKBloke]

People can score big one year, and then lose all those gains the next year or so.

Jesse Livermore for example. Won it all, lost it all, won it all back then shot himself in the head So many 'traders" look up to that guy. Never seen the attraction to be honest.

I'd like to eventually address a couple of the points you've made, but not here as I don't want to turn this into a trading thread. I will start a thread in the Stock Chat for Benefactors bit in due course.

One thing though; I never trade bio stocks. I've really only ever been interested in the Forex market and its various indices, however, the main reason I traded and called out live here with charting my purchases last year of Xenon Pharmaceuticals was to try and demonstrate the importance of trading behind the market as it's moving.

To be honest, I'd never ever share that kind of stuff live on a trading forum, but this is tinnitus. Tinnitus first, trading second. I hate to see tinnitus sufferers lose money, no matter how large or small the sum, on tinnitus markets.

 

[KoolKat]

Here's the upside: during Frequency Therapeutics' clinical trials, lots of discoveries have been made. I mean we now know the inner ear better and we have learned that inside our ears there is a molecular switch. There's also other things like the Bionics Institute which attempts to visually see tinnitus.

People, things are looking better than ever. It's not like we are in the 80s or 90s.

 

[ZFire]

I'd like to eventually address a couple of the points you've made, but not here as I don't want to turn this into a trading thread. I will start a thread in the Stock Chat for Benefactors bit in due course.

I look forward to it.

 

[ajc]

Here's the upside: during Frequency Therapeutics' clinical trials, lots of discoveries have been made. I mean we now know the inner ear better and we have learned that inside our ears there is a molecular switch. There's also other things like the Bionics Institute which attempts to visually see tinnitus.

People, things are looking better than ever. It's not like we are in the 80s or 90s.

Here's the downside: none of that matters in the short term. If Dr. Shore's device isn't as good as we all hope it to be, we're not going to have any resolution of our symptoms in the short term (<5 years).

There's always going to be fancy sounding breakthroughs, molecular switches and all, but Dear God Almighty for any of it to even get to a Human Clinical Trials, let alone passing through All Three Stages of Human Clinical Trials is a) unlikely and b) takes 8+ years on average (from pre-clinical stage to market availability).

It's now the @Koz way that we all have to face. Live our lives as much as we can and if something comes out, then it's a bonus. But it could take decades. THAT IS THE REALITY.

 

[Nick47]

@ajc, sad but true. Forget these biotechs. Here today, gone tomorrow.

It's technology or nothing for the rest of this decade. It sucks but it's TRUE!

 

[RingingBrother]

How is it that people improved up to a year later during the first trial but now there is no improvement? I wonder if they're still going to keep testing the trial subjects to check for any gains at 12 months.

This is basically restarting a fetal process in our ears that already happened in the womb. 90 days is too soon and they should have waited at least 9+ months before saying it failed.

It can also take even longer for the brain to re learn how to process sound that has been missing for years. They really should have kept testing the patients for at least 1-2 years before quitting.

 

[Jupiterman]

All the information and research findings from 'failed' attempts at a cure/treatment for tinnitus should be made available in the public domain.

This would allow any company (or person) to grind and analyse all the data together to hopefully make some realisations.

There is such a big need for this cure. With so many promising treatments ending in failure, you'd think it would be realised by now that in order to give future clinical trials of potential cures (and yes they will come) every chance of succeeding that a pooling of ALL knowledge gained so far should be shared.

Can you imagine how useless the police would be if they didn't share information about suspects between stations/states/counties?

 

[ajc]

How is it that people improved up to a year later during the first trial but now there is no improvement? I wonder if they're still going to keep testing the trial subjects to check for any gains at 12 months.

Have you lived under a rock?

The first trial had people lying about their hearing loss (made it look worse than it was) to get accepted into the trial and then they appeared to have improvement later when they no longer lied.

In this latest trial they fixed that by making the criteria semi opaque and weeded out the liars. And this is the end result.

All the information and research findings from 'failed' attempts at a cure/treatment for tinnitus should be made available in the public domain.

This would allow any company (or person) to grind and analyse all the data together to hopefully make some realisations.

There is such a big need for this cure. With so many promising treatments ending in failure, you'd think it would be realised by now that in order to give future clinical trials of potential cures (and yes they will come) every chance of succeeding that a pooling of ALL knowledge gained so far should be shared.

Can you imagine how useless the police would be if they didn't share information about suspects between stations/states/counties?

Capitalism doesn't work like that, and I wouldn't want the government forcing that either, that's not the world we should live in.

 

[RingingBrother]

Have you lived under a rock?

The first trial had people lying about their hearing loss (made it look worse than it was) to get accepted into the trial and then they appeared to have improvement later when they no longer lied.

In this latest trial they fixed that by making the criteria semi opaque and weeded out the liars. And this is the end result.

How is it that they can regrow hair cells in mice and donated cochlea with FX-322?

 

[Jonno02]

I know it's all doom and gloom right now but there will be dozens and dozens of failures. We only need one success.

We don't know what's in development behind closed doors from companies that are big enough to not need to release PR statements and publications to rally their stock to fund them. Perhaps there's nothing, but perhaps there is.

We're not completely in the gutter quite yet. Dr. Susan Shore's device, as @Nick47 has said, is our best short term option. Let's all hope that it's as good as we've been led to believe.

 

[Amv]

My biggest concern is that, after so many failed clinical trials, investors and big pharma shift investment to other ailments. Let's hope not.

Good news is that we have alternatives; Dr. Susan Shore, Xenon Pharmaceuticals, Decibel Therapeutics, Neuromod (if they learn and improve Lenire), and Dr. De Ridder.

It is a huge unmet market.

 

[Nick47]

Good news is that we have alternatives; Dr. Susan Shore, Xenon Pharmaceuticals, Decibel Therapeutics, Neuromod (if they learn and improve Lenire), and Dr. De Ridder.

@Amv, I agree with the Michigan device but we've got proof it will help some.

Xenon Pharmaceuticals - just a theory because Trobalt helped quite a few. For all we know Trobalt could be unique and have unknown MoA. We also don't know if the drug penetrate the brain stem or DCN in particular. And most importantly there is no interest in a tinnitus trial.

What have Decibel Therapeutics trialled for chronic hearing loss or tinnitus?

Neuromod is not really out of scientific findings, but theory. Lenire doesn't help most, very few in fact. How you can improve it without changing the concept completely, I'm not sure...

Dr. De Ridder - well I'm becoming more worried about him. I was discussing today with @LostinTX about him. All lectures seem to be the same over the last decade. All theory and unlike the Shore Lab, what 'scientific findings' has he actually made? Can anyone answer this? Yes, he's charming and philosophical and can do brain surgeries but his FINDINGS? It was Dr. Susan Shore who said in 2019 that researchers are carrying on like a 'fishing expedition' and hoping something works. Does he have the desire to get down and dirty and carry out animal or human research and look at the physiology?

Yes, I'm negative today but I want optimism that is founded and justified. Not clinging on to Carl LeBel talking about 'signals' or posting some 3D image of a rat's cochlea, fancy graphs or words heard and general bollocks. Yes, we should show an interest but we also have to reign people in, challenge them. 20,000 comments here and all this attention was unfounded. I was over the moon with the preliminary results from Michigan device. Because 2 rigorous trials have proved that Dr. Susan Shore's scientific findings and subsequent treatment design work (for some) without doubt. She didn't bang on about signals or show pictures of ears with no tinnitus or imaginary distress perception scores (Lenire). Look out for the next 'drug delivery system ' talk to reign some of us in...

It's of some interest to postulate on the potassium modulator epilepsy trials, however, again we should keep expectations low, real low, for reasons I've mentioned.

What's interesting is you've left out 2 trials for tinnitus treatments that complete this year (SAGE-547 and Pimozide). I found them both strange and out of nowhere and amusing, however, if we are looking for a treatment, they should garner more scrutiny and interest. Both may fail but the indications are for the reason we are here; tinnitus.

And don't get me started on Dr. Jimbo Minbo Shim out of South Korea. 1,700 comments. If you fall for that, you will be much poorer financially, if not physically.

I remember in April/May 2022 reading about Otonomy and Frequency Therapeutics and felt very optimistic. I soon realised the truth.

We have a duty to help new members who come and join and see all these treatments and research to stay grounded.

 

[Chriscom]

How is it that they can regrow hair cells in mice and donated cochlea with FX-322?

I don't have deep knowledge here, but it's common for drug trials to work in mice and fail in humans. The two are highly similar--many successful human drugs after all have started after successful trials in mice--but the differences are enough to make it a bit of crapshoot.

Very sorry for all, including me, on this news.

 

[tomytl]

I have been following developments in the field of hearing restoration for 20 years. Compared to 2003, a lot has happened in this field.

I am also very disappointed with Frequency Therapeutics, but who can blame you as a sufferer. It was the first company with a regenerative approach. The whole technology as well as the people behind it made it look very good. Frequency Therapeutics was a company that had raised money in the private sector with an idea and had done the clinical trials.

How would it have turned out if it had just worked? Unfortunately, it didn't and then they had to think commercially or somehow turn the product into money.

For those of us who are affected, the emotional disappointment is of course even greater than for pure speculators. I also lost money, but nobody asked me to invest, that was my decision to get a product from this company that could possibly help me in addition to earning money from it.

Neither worked out, very sad and very disappointing as well as discouraging.

In retrospect, it was also a very risky venture. Some time ago I asked a researcher in the field of hair cell regeneration what chances he saw for success. He was rather sceptical that it would succeed this way, but he said it was a step in the right direction. Even with the Novartis/GenVec gene therapy, he did not know what data would be accessed and that no one in another lab would have been able to reproduce the experiment.

What perhaps also has to make us cautious is that many of these companies like Frequency Therapeutics or Otonomy don't even come with people from this field.

 

[Artemis2K]

Sigh. I'm growing tired of disappointment.

Unfortunately, I am the kind of person that if I don't have something to be optimistic about in the future, even if the chances are slim, I get really depressed and don't function well.

I really hope I don't this time. I can't afford to feel like everything is meaningless right now lol.

 

[Lucifer]

Sigh. I'm growing tired of disappointment.

Unfortunately, I am the kind of person that if I don't have something to be optimistic about in the future, even if the chances are slim, I get really depressed and don't function well.

I really hope I don't this time. I can't afford to feel like everything is meaningless right now lol.

Same, even if there is a slight hope, it makes it easier to get through each day.

 

[ZFire]

So in conclusion, hearing aids and cochlear implants (?) are still the best way to treat hearing loss. Is this about right?

I'll be keeping tabs on Dr. Shore's device along with those potassium channel modulators. But my main interest right now is the Bionics Institute. Those people seem to have their priorities (objective measurements for tinnitus) in order compared to others involved in tinnitus research.

 

[UKBloke]

But my main interest right now is the Bionics Institute.

Hard agree. This is the bar as far as I'm concerned. My gut feeling is that their work on objective tinnitus measurement is so important it should form the basis of our manifesto going forward.

They're not that far away from their system being capable enough to be used in clinical trials as a measure and monitoring tool.

The moment we have this, we'll have the biggest BS detector working for us night and day on our side of the research industry. Can't come soon enough.

 

[Fightthearmy]

So in conclusion, hearing aids and cochlear implants (?) are still the best way to treat hearing loss. Is this about right?

Got severe hearing loss or mob connections? If not, you're never going to "persuade" any doctor to give you a cochlear implant.