Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[Zugzug]

I wonder what happens to the drug in the endolymph? Assuming it enters at round window and stapes that it must also flow into the endolymph.

I've been thinking about this. According to this, the only part of the Organ of Corti that bathes in the endolymph is the stereocilia. Apparently, it says that the hair cells and support cells bathe in the perilymph (presumably, adjacent to the ST?). Honestly, I don't understand much of anything to do with the perilymph in the SV and how it crosses the apex and interacts with perilymph in the ST. I mean, for sound, I can kind of picture a traveling wave vibrating the basilar membrane, but I don't know how this works with something like drug diffusion.

 

[Jim Vasilakis]

Was your hearing tested in the extended high frequency range? IE: 8 kHz - 16 kHz.

I don't think so. I think it went up to 8 kHz. Anxiety can't cause tinnitus on its own, right? I'm generally an anxious person, even before tinnitus.

Go to an audiologist and measure your hearing up to 16000 Hz or 20000 Hz. Then you will know for sure if you have hearing loss down to 20 dB at the higher frequencies.

So, it's not probable that the 5 dB at 4 kHz is the cause of my tinnitus?

 

[FGG]

I wonder what happens to the drug in the endolymph? Assuming it enters at round window and stapes that it must also flow into the endolymph.

Is it entering at the Stapes or exiting?

 

[Diesel]

I don't think so. I think it went up to 8 kHz. Anxiety can't cause tinnitus on its own, right? I'm generally an anxious person, even before tinnitus.

So, it's not probable that the 5 dB at 4 kHz is the cause of my tinnitus?

If I am looking at it right, you have a 30 dB threshold at 4 kHz. Still probably not enough to cause your tinnitus. It's more than likely significant losses above 8 kHz is the cause for most people's tinnitus if it is caused by noise/aging/SNHL.

Also, of note, the audiogram is a really vague tool for detecting loss across the hearing spectrum. For example, mine looks "normal" but I discovered later that I have a significant loss from 6.8 kHz - 7.5 kHz. This doesn't show up at all on the standard audiogram since they test at 6 kHz and 8 kHz.

 

[FGG]

The main culprits for true ototoxicity seem to be limited to select drugs, e.g. certain antibiotics, mostly the aminoglycoside class but also Azithromycin, as well as certain chemotherapy drugs, e.g. Cisplatin.

Depends on what you mean by "true ototoxicity". I don't look at hair cell death as the only form of ototoxicity. Long term aspirin, for instance, can overexcite NMDA receptors. I would consider this "ototoxicity" personally because it's still disruptive to the inner ear.

Also anything that disrupts blood flow can cause anoxic or reperfusion injuries to the hair cells. These drugs are more "ototoxic" to the wrong person.

I think people get nervous because of the unpredictable nature of it.

 

[GregCA]

Depends on what you mean by "true ototoxicity". I don't look at hair cell death as the only form of ototoxicity. Long term aspirin, for instance, can overexcite NMDA receptors. I would consider this "ototoxicity" personally because it's still disruptive to the inner ear.

Also some hair cell death happens without medication involved: in otosclerosis for example, the bone remodeling process that occurs near the stapes releases enzymes that are toxic to the hair cells. This is a likely reason for my high frequency sensorineural losses, in addition to the stapedotomy trauma (I had some HF sensorineural losses prior to surgery, but surgery worsened them a bit).

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

The current hypothesis is that FX-322 targets the high frequencies first and then trickles down, right? If most people's tinnitus (caused by NIHL/SNHL) originate from dips on the high frequencies, does this mean that, in theory, FX-322 will bring a good amount of relief on the first round of shots, @Diesel?

 

[Diesel]

The current hypothesis is that FX-322 targets the high frequencies first and then trickles down, right? If most people's tinnitus (caused by NIHL/SNHL) originate from dips on the high frequencies, does this mean that, in theory, FX-322 will bring a good amount of relief on the first round of shots, @Diesel?

In theory, this is what many believe will happen. IHC/OHC regrowth takes place in the highest frequencies, therefore the brain received a proper signal from those new hair cells. If the absence of those cells prior to treatment resulted in a tinnitus symptom, restoring signal should resolve or treat it.

 

[twa]

FX-322 is intended to treat Sensorineural Hearing Loss caused by Aging, Noise, Disease, and Ototoxic Medications.

That seems to cover all my possible causes!

 

[Trevor_phillips]

In theory, this is what many believe will happen. IHC/OHC regrowth takes place in the highest frequencies, therefore the brain received a proper signal from those new hair cells. If the absence of those cells prior to treatment resulted in a tinnitus symptom, restoring signal should resolve or treat it.

Therefore, acoustic otoemissions should be restored? I recently took one knowing about the fact that they are more noticeable in high frequency areas.

 

[FGG]

If I am looking at it right, you have a 30 dB threshold at 4 kHz. Still probably not enough to cause your tinnitus. It's more than likely significant losses above 8 kHz is the cause for most people's tinnitus if it is caused by noise/aging/SNHL.

Also, of note, the audiogram is a really vague tool for detecting loss across the hearing spectrum. For example, mine looks "normal" but I discovered later that I have a significant loss from 6.8 kHz - 7.5 kHz. This doesn't show up at all on the standard audiogram since they test at 6 kHz and 8 kHz.

I'm going to partially disagree with this. I think a 30 dB threshold is probably not enough to cause tinnitus in *most* people, however it seems some people have more "predictive" brains that are more sensitive to smaller expected vs actual auditory input discrepancies. On the other extreme, some people can lose a lot of hearing and not get tinnitus.

I do think someone who has minor standard audiogram changes likely has bigger changes on an extended audiogram though.

 

[Zugzug]

To anyone who bought a bunch of stock:

Are you checking for news like every minute? I imagine if it's bad, you want to be the first to sell, right?

 

[scotty03874]

Are you checking for news like every minute? I imagine if it's bad, you want to be the first to sell, right?

Yes every single hour. Always on my home screen.

 

[Keith Handy]

Are you checking for news like every minute? I imagine if it's bad, you want to be the first to sell, right?

I'm just gonna point out that there are a lot of minutes in a month. Not that you don't know this.

 

[AfroSnowman]

Are you checking for news like every minute? I imagine if it's bad, you want to be the first to sell, right?

No way I could be fast enough.

 

[FGG]

No way I could be fast enough.

I don't at all expect bad news but as a general rule on any biotech, you wouldn't be able to sell fast enough. The computers find out before you do.

So don't invest in any biotech unless you 1) 100% believe in it 2) are prepared to lose money.

 

[Christine2222]

To anyone who bought a bunch of stock:

Are you checking for news like every minute? I imagine if it's bad, you want to be the first to sell, right?

The market moves so fast, it's crazy. Maybe put in a stop loss order already if you're worried. The news will likely come out pre-market or after market.

 

[Zugzug]

The market moves so fast, it's crazy. Maybe put in a stop loss order already if you're worried. The news will likely come out pre-market or after market.

This is smart. I only have a small amount so I plan on staying in it for the long haul, unless Phase 2a results are some crazy, embarrassing flop that wasn't detected in the Phase 1/2 study because the sample size was small and they just happened to get a few people who miraculously saw hearing improvements -- or more specifically, happened to be the people that responded strongly to the medicine. Yeah, not likely at all lol.

 

[FGG]

The market moves so fast, it's crazy. Maybe put in a stop loss order already if you're worried. The news will likely come out pre-market or after market.

Stop loss doesn't work as well with biotech because events are so binary. I don't think it's the sector for nervous investors in general.

 

[Pero1234]

I had set a stop limit order for Otonomy prior to their Phase 3 news. But indeed, news came out after market hours.

When the markets opened, they opened lower than my stop limit, so I sold nothing. Still holding now.

I am a bit hesitant putting in a stop loss for FREQ, as it can sell for way below your purchase price, right? Depending on how fast the drop goes.

My average purchase price is about $24 USD. I don't want to end up selling everything at $8, $4 or $2 USD. Perhaps if I hold it will bounce up again later, with another product in the pipeline.

So I am in doubt over a stop loss... What are the rest of you FX-322 investors doing?

 

[Koz]

When I first started on this forum I became paranoid over everything being ototoxic. I do wonder how many of the items fingered for this actually are rather than being just paranoia on tinnitus sufferers' part.

I think it's mostly certain antibiotics, chemotherapy treatments etc.

The list of things that can make tinnitus worse or induce tinnitus are however the vast majority in comparison but that doesn't mean hair cell death.

Risk vs. Benefit is purely down to what the person sees as a bigger issue for them, hearing loss or tinnitus.

 

[FGG]

I had set a stop limit order for Otonomy prior to their Phase 3 news. But indeed, news came out after market hours.

When the markets opened, they opened lower than my stop limit, so I sold nothing. Still holding now.

I am a bit hesitant putting in a stop loss for FREQ, as it can sell for way below your purchase price, right? Depending on how fast the drop goes.

My average purchase price is about $24 USD. I don't want to end up selling everything at $8, $4 or $2 USD. Perhaps if I hold it will bounce up again later, with another product in the pipeline.

So I am in doubt over a stop loss... What are the rest of you FX-322 investors doing?

Stop losses just don't work for biotech because of the large swings around binary events.

I'm holding because I believe in the company. If I didn't, I would sell before news.

 

[Jcmc]

I had set a stop limit order for Otonomy prior to their Phase 3 news. But indeed, news came out after market hours.

When the markets opened, they opened lower than my stop limit, so I sold nothing. Still holding now.

I am a bit hesitant putting in a stop loss for FREQ, as it can sell for way below your purchase price, right? Depending on how fast the drop goes.

My average purchase price is about $24 USD. I don't want to end up selling everything at $8, $4 or $2 USD. Perhaps if I hold it will bounce up again later, with another product in the pipeline.

So I am in doubt over a stop loss... What are the rest of you FX-322 investors doing?

What app do you use to buy FREQ stock?

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

Some guy on Twitter said that he "heard" FX-322 will be available "at the very least" in 2030, even Carl LeBel has pushed back the date by mid decade on his conservative estimate; more evidence on how much misinformation and ignorance the general public has on the drug.

 

[Bill Arsenault]

They don't. I wish people would stop calling them ototoxic as well. I remember a Doctor in the Doctor's Corner section (one with tinnitus himself) and a tinnitus expert clarified that antidepressants aren't ototoxic.

Drugs that are actually ototoxic (i.e - cause hair cell death) are actually not that many.

Drugs that can induce tinnitus is a whole other thing altogether, but inducing brain noise (that even normal people can encounter under certain circumstances) isn't technically toxicity.

The definition of Ototoxic is not: "Substances that cause hair cell death".
Anything that poisons any part of the inner ear in anyway can be defined as Ototoxic.
We also don't yet know for sure that hair cell death is the only cause of tinnitus.

So many people who are over-exposed to noise never get tinnitus.
So many people who have tinnitus have not been over-exposed to noise.
I believe that medication is causing a quite a bit of it-
or even cigs and alcohol-
regardless of what we are being told by the experts.

 

[FGG]

The definition of Ototoxic is not: "Substances that cause hair cell death".
Anything that poisons any part of the inner ear in anyway can be Ototoxic.
We also don't yet know for sure that hair cell death is the only cause of tinnitus.

Absolutely. Things that don't cause hair cell loss tend to be more reversible and maybe that's the distinction people are trying to make (but that isn't even always true).

 

[Gb3]

I believe @FGG.

 

[FGG]

I believe @FGG.

View attachment 43567

Dude, that's way too much responsibility. Lol.

 

[Brian Newman]

Some guy on Twitter said that he "heard" FX-322 will be available "at the very least" in 2030, even Carl LeBel has pushed back the date by mid decade on his conservative estimate; more evidence on how much misinformation and ignorance the general public has on the drug.

I heard 2023 but yeah I don't know if I could make it another 10 years. I hope sooner.

 

[AfroSnowman]

I asked my audiologist about my extended audiograms where I clearly have some hearing loss and asked her how bad it was was. She said that it was hard to answer because there really aren't accepted medical standards for what hearing sensitivity at those ranges are supposed to be.

Is this right or is the 20 dB of loss still considered the standard?