Hair Cells vs. Middle Ear Muscles

[walkthroughwalls]

Is there any way to know if one's T is caused by damaged hair cells, or by 'upset' middle ear muscles (stapedius muscle and sensor tympani muscle)?

In the last case, can muscle relaxants have a (positive) effect?

 

[Chelles]

@walkthroughwalls are you still having this problem? I have stapedial myoclonus and I tried one muscle relaxant flexeril and it didn't help. I am currently taking magnesium and that seems to help a little bit.

 

[I who love music]

I have T, H, and some thumping, wiggly & bumping things going on. I've taken Flexeril a few times for bad back, I don't remember it it helped my ears. If it had a positive effect on my ears I surely would have noticed. That's just me though. Good question.

 

[Ricky81]

A DPOAE Test will show you your Hair cells. Ask your Audiologist or ENT about it. Here is mine. I have a dip in my left ear showing less strong cochlear hair around 5700 Hz but they are present.
my T is more neurological.

 

[walkthroughwalls]

Thank you all very much for your replies! I'm a bit late replying to my own thread, because I'm not on TT very much any more. I'm very depressed and rarely feel like doing anything 'social'.

On Monday I had an appointment with a 'Tinnitus Team' at a better (and more research oriented) hospital than the one I went to before. I talked to a social worker, an ENT, and had the most extensive hearing test so far. The results: right ear is perfect, left ear is slightly damaged (-20dB @ 8kHz & 16 kHz IIRC), and the ENT says everything looks fine.


The ENT said that according to the best and most recent theories, T is the result of non-functioning hair cells which don't send signals to the brain any longer. To 'compensate' for the sounds that the brain expects, the brain generates 'sound' itself, which we perceive as T.
There may be a relation between jaw muscles and T. Interestingly, the ENT told me that humans (probably?) still have the evolutionary remains of muscles for controlling the ears. In other words, we cannot aim or ears like cats can, but we still have muscles in that area that can influence our hearing. For example, jaw movement may influence these muscles.


I have another appointment for March 2nd at (on, in, for... what's the correct spelling here?) which we are going to discuss the results and the team is going to present a plan for future research and/or treatment. I'm preparing a list of questions that may give further insights on T. If any of you is interested in the results, please let me known by replying or PM'ing!

@Chelles, thanks. I'll give magnesium a go.
@I who love music, thanks, all info is welcome.
@Ricky81, thanks. I've been wondering if I really have hearing damage in my left ear, or that it's just the T covering up test tones that I actually can hear. I'll mention this test to the team (keeping in mind Dr. Nagler's remarks) and see what they'll say.

 

[Nucleo]

A DPOAE Test will show you your Hair cells. Ask your Audiologist or ENT about it. Here is mine. I have a dip in my left ear showing less strong cochlear hair around 5700 Hz but they are present.
my T is more neurological.

If your T more in the left ear or right ear?

 

[Ricky81]

If your T more in the left ear or right ear?

My T is louder in Left ear.

 

[Nucleo]

My T is louder in Left ear.

As your DPOAE test shows. Interesting. Do you also have hearing loss on your audiogram? I assume not, since no one tests for 5700 hz.

I might have one of these test done then. I ask my audiologist about it and said it was only done for infants. Gotta find a new audiologist then.

 

[mermaid]

A DPOAE Test will show you your Hair cells. Ask your Audiologist or ENT about it. Here is mine. I have a dip in my left ear showing less strong cochlear hair around 5700 Hz but they are present.
my T is more neurological.

@Ricky81 - How do you know they are still present? I made a DPOAE test last year and I was told that the lines going down on the graph are the sight of the death (eventually irreversible damage) of the hair cells and not of their weakness.

 

[Nucleo]

How do you know they are still present? I made a DPOAE test last year and I was told that the lines going down on the graph are the sight of the death (eventually irreversible damage) of the hair cells and not of their weakness.

I think it shows that cells respond less strongly. So it might be that some of them are damaged/missing. Maybe not all of them.

 

[SoulStation]

Thank you all very much for your replies! I'm a bit late replying to my own thread, because I'm not on TT very much any more. I'm very depressed and rarely feel like doing anything 'social'.

On Monday I had an appointment with a 'Tinnitus Team' at a better (and more research oriented) hospital than the one I went to before. I talked to a social worker, an ENT, and had the most extensive hearing test so far. The results: right ear is perfect, left ear is slightly damaged (-20dB @ 8kHz & 16 kHz IIRC), and the ENT says everything looks fine.


The ENT said that according to the best and most recent theories, T is the result of non-functioning hair cells which don't send signals to the brain any longer. To 'compensate' for the sounds that the brain expects, the brain generates 'sound' itself, which we perceive as T.
There may be a relation between jaw muscles and T. Interestingly, the ENT told me that humans (probably?) still have the evolutionary remains of muscles for controlling the ears. In other words, we cannot aim or ears like cats can, but we still have muscles in that area that can influence our hearing. For example, jaw movement may influence these muscles.


I have another appointment for March 2nd at (on, in, for... what's the correct spelling here?) which we are going to discuss the results and the team is going to present a plan for future research and/or treatment. I'm preparing a list of questions that may give further insights on T. If any of you is interested in the results, please let me known by replying or PM'ing!

@Chelles, thanks. I'll give magnesium a go.
@I who love music, thanks, all info is welcome.
@Ricky81, thanks. I've been wondering if I really have hearing damage in my left ear, or that it's just the T covering up test tones that I actually can hear. I'll mention this test to the team (keeping in mind Dr. Nagler's remarks) and see what they'll say.

Ask your doc - if his theory is right then how do a TON of people get damage to there ears and don't have T? There's a big hole in that theory IMO -

 

[Ricky81]

As your DPOAE test shows. Interesting. Do you also have hearing loss on your audiogram? I assume not, since no one tests for 5700 hz.

I might have one of these test done then. I ask my audiologist about it and said it was only done for infants. Gotta find a new audiologist then.

I do not have any hearing loss. I can hear a leaf drop in a quite room.. lol

My T is most likely due to elevated intracranial pressure after head trauma and or related to head Trauma. I got a Lumbar Puncture to bring pressure down to 13. But it goes up so I'm thinking of getting another later this year and bring pressure to single digits and see if that helps..

 

[linearb]

Ask your doc - if his theory is right then how do a TON of people get damage to there ears and don't have T? There's a big hole in that theory IMO -

The theory is that there is a gating mechanism in the thalamus which is supposed to block the signal from becoming a conscious percept. People with tinnitus show damage to this area. So, it's a brain problem and not an ear problem, or else everyone would have tinnitus, as everyone had some degree of hearing loss by their 30s.

 

[SoulStation]

The theory is that there is a gating mechanism in the thalamus which is supposed to block the signal from becoming a conscious percept. People with tinnitus show damage to this area. So, it's a brain problem and not an ear problem, or else everyone would have tinnitus, as everyone had some degree of hearing loss by their 30s.

That makes perfect sense - I guess correcting the gating mechanism is what we need to figure out what to do(among a plethora of other tasks). Honestly I feel like it is such a monumental task - as others have mentioned before here we still haven't found a way to correct brain diseases that are much more threatening (Parkinson's, ALS, Dystonia)- It seems to me like brain surgery is our best shot but its so invasive and risky at this time.

 

[linearb]

I don't know if surgery is going to be s useful way to repair a damaged thalamus for many years yet... On the other hand, several imaging studies show that long term yoga or meditation can literally cause beneficial structural changes in these exact brain regions...

 

[SoulStation]

I don't know if surgery is going to be s useful way to repair a damaged thalamus for many years yet... On the other hand, several imaging studies show that long term yoga or meditation can literally cause beneficial structural changes in these exact brain regions...

Interesting.