Hearing-Safe Smoke Alarms for Tinnitus — LED Strobe Smoke Alarms?

[Bartoli]

Hi,

Since the beginning of this year, smoke alarms have become obligatory in Belgium. I haven't gotten around to installing them, and I do not want to either.
I was looking at some alternatives, namely the units with a strobe, but from what I can gather they still emit some sort of alarm sound. Does anyone know of any other device? All advice is greatly appreciated.

From a legal point of view, what do I risk? I'm guessing insurance not paying out in case of a fire? I have medical records stating my tinnitus. Would that be enough to justify not having placed them?

 

[serendipity1996]

Hi,

Since the beginning of this year, smoke alarms have become obligatory in Belgium. I haven't gotten around to installing them, and I do not want to either.
I was looking at some alternatives, namely the units with a strobe, but from what I can gather they still emit some sort of alarm sound. Does anyone know of any other device? All advice is greatly appreciated.

From a legal point of view, what do I risk? I'm guessing insurance not paying out in case of a fire? I have medical records stating my tinnitus. Would that be enough to justify not having placed them?

This is something that concerns me, as a hyperacusis sufferer - something I would perhaps look into is smoke alarms designed for the deaf/hearing impaired. These rely on strobe lighting/vibrations to alert owners to danger.

https://www.cheshirefire.gov.uk/pub...ke-alarms-for-deaf-and-hard-of-hearing-people

This is a British site but it says here you can contact the Action on Hearing Loss organisation for further information about smoke alarms - even though you're in Belgium it might be helpful to contact them since they'll be familiar with hyperacusis and might have some good advice as to what to do. Also having medical documentation etc to support your case should help.

 

[Alexandor Scott]

The smoke alarms I had installed in my place are 85db at 10ft, so loud enough to get my attention but not loud enough to do any damage. I just found them by google searching 85db smoke alarms. If I'm not mistaken they were first alert brand.

 

[Harley]

Hi,

Since the beginning of this year, smoke alarms have become obligatory in Belgium. I haven't gotten around to installing them, and I do not want to either.
I was looking at some alternatives, namely the units with a strobe, but from what I can gather they still emit some sort of alarm sound. Does anyone know of any other device? All advice is greatly appreciated.

From a legal point of view, what do I risk? I'm guessing insurance not paying out in case of a fire? I have medical records stating my tinnitus. Would that be enough to justify not having placed them?

Unfortunately this is a bad situation.
Your tinnitus might be documented, but thanks to the habituation myth pushers, in most people's minds, it is in about the same category like a a minor rash, sore back or a paper cut.

Should something happen, you would not be able to make the case with the insurance for that reason.

Here is how I solved this issue:
I bought the cheapest package containing 3 smoke alarms and did some experiments.
I found that it is possible to use a thin screwdriver to dig into the speaker part right through the opening slots and gently tap it with either your fist or a rubber mallet (be careful not to damage the vents, this way nobody can tell it was tampered with).
Try it after each time (with hearing protection of course) and if there is little or no change, use progressively more power.

It might take a few times to get it right, but it is possible to damage the metal speaker part just enough to lower the volume, while still retaining high enough decibels for you to hear it.

Our of the 3 alarms I bought, now I have one that sounds at about 50% of the original volume.
I killed the other 2 completely.
Problem solved.

 

[Bartoli]

The smoke alarms I had installed in my place are 85db at 10ft, so loud enough to get my attention but not loud enough to do any damage. I just found them by google searching 85db smoke alarms. If I'm not mistaken they were first alert brand.

Thanks. Many smoke detectors are around that value. While the charts say 85dB shouldn't damage hearing, I'm not so sure about that. (And I certainly don't want to risk it). There are many posts on this forum about people getting tinnitus or spiking their existing tinnitus by exposure to smoke detectors. I'll leave it out there whether or not people with tinnitus are more sensitive, but there are other things to consider.

- 85dB of a pure tone means all the energy is concentrated in a spectrally very narrow band. This is more damaging. Because it's an alarm, they chose the most piercing pitch available.

- 85dB is measured at 3m of distance and with no reflecting structures. When one goes off when you're standing underneath, that's likely less than a meter, and you're probably getting even more because of room reverberation.

- The speaker or horn is tiny, cheap and only really capable of producing that alarm sound. The wave pattern would probably be more like a sawtooth or square wave or in any case have quite some distortion, which further adds to the likeliness of damage.

Count in the fact that research now found out that hearing impaired people (even mild to moderate) tend not to wake up from an alarm, and children even less so, and I'm wondering why these detectors are being pushed on us at all. Only 50% of the aged 6-15 awoke from a sound of 4000Hz at 89dB measured AT THE PILLOW! Some prepubertal children did not wake from a signal of 123dB!

I'm getting mad just reading what they've put these children through.
Oh I'm sure there was approval from a scientific committee waving their charts and saying it could do no harm.
Here's the source:

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/10826369.pdf

@Ed209 I know you know your decibels and sones better than anyone. Can I ask how you managed this assuming you have detectors in the house?

@Harley thanks for the tip, if all else fails, I guess I'll have to slash my speakers with a screwdriver. I have to say, even the test-retest part with earmuffs on doesn't particularly appeal to me. Can I order them broken right out of the box?

 

[Bill Bauer]

Since the beginning of this year, smoke alarms have become obligatory in Belgium. I haven't gotten around to installing them, and I do not want to either.

Can't you install one and then replace the battery with a dead battery?

not loud enough to do any damage.

There is only one way to find out whether this religious belief is true in your case?

I have to say, even the test-retest part with earmuffs on doesn't particularly appeal to me

Makes sense. You will need to pay someone to do it (or ask a relative)...

I'm getting mad just reading what they've put these children through.
Oh I'm sure there was approval from a scientific committee waving their charts and saying it could do no harm.

And then we get to read posts here saying that the person has had tinnitus for over 50 years and has had it for as long as they can remember...

 

[Bill Bauer]

@Ed209 I know you know your decibels and sones better than anyone. Can I ask how you managed this assuming you have detectors in the house?

Ed is in the "trust the chart" camp.

 

[Bartoli]

This is something that concerns me, as a hyperacusis sufferer - something I would perhaps look into is smoke alarms designed for the deaf/hearing impaired. These rely on strobe lighting/vibrations to alert owners to danger.

I quote from the article: "If smoke is detected, the alarm will sound and set off the pad to assist in waking them."

I interpret this as saying there is still an alarm going off to which your vibrating pillow would react. So far, all units for the deaf/hard of hearing that I've come across online work in a similar fashion.

 

[Bartoli]

Can't you install one and then replace the battery with a dead battery?

I believe most models nowadays come with a 10 year irreplaceable battery to prevent people from yanking them out after the umpteenth early morning slightly burnt-toast alarm.

 

[Bartoli]

Ed is in the "trust the chart" camp.

I'm not trying to get that debate going. It's just that I think the decibel readings aren't that reliable at all. Pretty much all of the smoke detectors emit 85dB as per the leaflet. With all the different components between brands and differences between the same components due to manufacturing , I really wonder how stringent the testing protocol is when it comes to loudness levels. It's like they want to hit that magical 85dB mark. It's measured at 3 meters, too, so what real-world value does it bear, really?

 

[lymebite]

A smoke alarm using smell (wasabi) instead of sound was developed in Japan.

Unfortunately, it seems not to be on the market. I have searched and searched but could not find it for sale anywhere. If anyone can find a place that sells them, please post a link!

From the article at the link:

Wasabi fire alarm a lifesaver for the deaf

"Japan has developed a smoke detector for deaf people that is based on the pungent smell of Japan's spicy green horseradish, an eye-watering condiment more typically found tucked under fish in a piece of sushi.

If it detects smoke, the alarm sprays out a synthesized wasabi smell that wakes up people who might have slept through a conventional fire alarm."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-a-lifesaver-for-the-deaf-idUST29421020080318

 

[Harley]

I'm not trying to get that debate going. It's just that I think the decibel readings aren't that reliable at all. Pretty much all of the smoke detectors emit 85dB as per the leaflet. With all the different components between brands and differences between the same components due to manufacturing , I really wonder how stringent the testing protocol is when it comes to loudness levels. It's like they want to hit that magical 85dB mark. It's measured at 3 meters, too, so what real-world value does it bear, really?

I think the pitch matters just as much as the decibels.
85 decibels at lower pitch should be much easier on your ears, than the 85 decibels, which target the finer (and much weaker) hairs inside the cochlea, which are activated by higher frequencies.
At least that is my understanding of this.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It's just that I think the decibel readings aren't that reliable at all.

To me, it seems that there are too many testimonies of people getting into serious trouble after the exposure to supposedly safe sounds, for those testimonies to be dismissed/ignored.

I believe most models nowadays come with a 10 year irreplaceable battery to prevent people from yanking them out after the umpteenth early morning slightly burnt-toast alarm.

Shocking!!! I'd better hold on to my smoke detectors made in 1990s. You might want to see whether one of the older models are being sold on Ebay or some place like that. You could even make a post somewhere saying that you will pay a substantial amount for one of the older smoke detectors...

 

[Bartoli]

Shocking!!! I'd better hold on to my smoke detectors made in 1990s. You might want to see whether one of the older models are being sold on Ebay or some place like that. You could even make a post somewhere saying that you will pay a substantial amount for one of the older smoke detectors...

https://chacon.com/en/smoke-detecto...h-alkaline-battery-5-years-3760141664536.html

It's not that bad apparently. They can still be found. Regulations say it needs to be the optical type since the ionizing types use a small amount of radioactive material, which is a problem in recycling.
I'm not willing to spend a substantial amount of money on those things anyway.

After some research on the subject from a legal standpoint, I'm not going to install them at all. They are obligatory by law, but in the lead-up to that law going into effect there have been some articles on it where most insurers (among which my insurance company) said they would not use the presence of smoke detectors as an argument for whether or not to pay out in case of a fire. They did warn though that in that case, they could choose not to prolong the insurance contract afterwards.

At least it's something. For now I won't install them.

If I ever wanted to install one, Google's Nest unit apparently gives a voice warning before the alarm. You can turn it off by waving at it or using your phone. It costs 129 per unit.

 

[linearb]

I believe that normal acoustic smoke alarms present pretty minimal risks as long as they are properly mounted and at a reasonable decibel level.

Every horror story I've ever seen has involved either: somewhat sustained exposure right at ear-level from a nearby device, industrial-scale alarms as you have in huge buildings, or both.

Since my tinnitus got significantly worse following an acoustic trauma in 2010, I've been exposed to routine civilian smoke and fire alarms a half dozen times, once at near head level for a period of a couple minutes while I was protecting my kid's ears and trying to get something to stop smoking; none of these exposures has caused me even temporary problems.

Your risk calculus may be different, but I heat my house with wood fires and have a child, so, fire alarms are not really optional (even though they are, in terms of as a matter of law). We have a smoke alarm in our room over the bed, but it's ~6' in the air, keeping it ~8' from my head. The loudest alarms I'm aware of are 120db at ~6" from source -- that's much louder than you need for home (and louder than ours), but that means they are 114db at 12", 108db at 24", 102db at 48".

I wouldn't want 120db blasted right into my ear for any length of time; short term exposure to 100db scares me far less than not having enough notice to get our family out of a burning house. Usually by the time you wake up from smelling smoke (if you do at all) it's much too late.

Many civilian alarms are marketed as "85db at 10'", which would imply to me they are 91db at 5', 97db at 2.5', 103 db at 1.25', 109db at 0.75', 115db at 0.3525'. So, these are probably around that 120db at source.

The trick here is just to mount the device in such a place that you will never be closer to 10' from where it is when it goes off. This likely also means you won't have a straightforward way to reset it / turn it off, without getting a step stool or something, but if you just keep a pair of earmuffs hanging on the wall that you can grab, then you can put muffs on as you go to disable the alarm (or, just flee the building if it's actually on fire).

@Bartoli do you drive a car with airbags? Airbag deployment is pretty much guaranteed to be more of an acoustic shock than a fire alarm, and yes we've had some discussion around here about disabling them. I think that's silly, but, I've had my life saved by airbags a couple times so that colors things. One of these deployments (or whiplash from the accident) may have been a causative factor in my tinnitus, but, I'd rather be here with a beep and an incessant 14khz whine in my head than dead, or worse, severely brain damaged but not dead.

 

[Bartoli]

Thanks for weighing in.

Since my tinnitus got significantly worse following an acoustic trauma in 2010, I've been exposed to routine civilian smoke and fire alarms a half dozen times, once at near head level for a period of a couple minutes while I was protecting my kid's ears and trying to get something to stop smoking; none of these exposures has caused me even temporary problems.

My worsening is far more recent and I'm still very much trying to come to terms with it. Who knows with time that could still change and I'll feel a little more at ease around these things.

Your risk calculus may be different, but I heat my house with wood fires and have a child, so, fire alarms are not really optional (even though they are, in terms of as a matter of law). We have a smoke alarm in our room over the bed, but it's ~6' in the air, keeping it ~8' from my head. The loudest alarms I'm aware of are 120db at ~6" from source -- that's much louder than you need for home (and louder than ours), but that means they are 114db at 12", 108db at 24", 102db at 48".

We have central heating with no chance of CO buildup and a recently certified electrical installation. Placing smoke detectors was not on my radar until it became compulsory.

In a way it's a bit like a bike helmet. Never wore one as a kid and would not feel good riding without one now...

@Bartoli do you drive a car with airbags? Airbag deployment is pretty much guaranteed to be more of an acoustic shock than a fire alarm, and yes we've had some discussion around here about disabling them. I think that's silly, but, I've had my life saved by airbags a couple times so that colors things. One of these deployments (or whiplash from the accident) may have been a causative factor in my tinnitus, but, I'd rather be here with a beep and an incessant 14khz whine in my head than dead, or worse, severely brain damaged but not dead.

Yeah I am aware. Tampering with the airbags would be a bridge too far for me, even though I'm pretty certain another worsening would be intolerable. At least I rest assured in the knowledge my passengers will be ok. My wife had a crash once. She didn't get tinnitus although her airbags went off. I think it depends on how lucky you get in relation to getting/worsening tinnitus. If you have it coming, any little thing will will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

 

[Alexandor Scott]

There is only one way to find out whether this religious belief is true in your case?

I wouldn't listen to anything at 85db for several hours at a time but I feel confident that a few seconds of exposure to 85db isn't loud enough to do any damage. I wouldn't judge anyone for wanting to avoid 85db though, by any means. Anyhow, the smoke detector I have only hits about 78db at 10ft according to the professional db meter I just bought. It's really rather quiet. I sometimes worry it wouldn't wake me above my sound machine in the event of an emergency.

 

[Bill Bauer]

a few seconds of exposure to 85db isn't loud enough to do any damage.

Over three years ago my tinnitus began after a sonic toothbrush (I doubt the noise it was emitting was as loud as 85 dB) came into contact with my ear canal for a FRACTION of a second.

 

[Lucifer]

Over three years ago my tinnitus began after a sonic toothbrush (I doubt the noise it was emitting was as loud as 85 dB) came into contact with my ear canal for a FRACTION of a second.

@Bill Bauer you still haven't told us how that sonic toothbrush came into contact with your ear canal. I'm quite curious.

 

[Alexandor Scott]

Over three years ago my tinnitus began after a sonic toothbrush (I doubt the noise it was emitting was as loud as 85 dB) came into contact with my ear canal for a FRACTION of a second.

Could it be that the sound was amplified due to bone conduction? Anyways, as I said, I don't take issue with someone wanting to avoid 85db sounds, despite my belief that sounds at that level are extremely unlikely to cause problems. To each their own.

 

[serendipity1996]

There was one user who experienced acoustic trauma (@Jason C I think?) from an external alarm sounder which I think is typically set at a higher volume than regular internal fire alarms.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Could it be that the sound was amplified due to bone conduction?

I don't believe bone conduction Amplifies the sound. Perhaps it wasn't the sound, but the vibration, but then again sound Is vibration...

@Bill Bauer you still haven't told us how that sonic toothbrush came into contact with your ear canal. I'm quite curious.

Too embarrassing. A momentary lapse of judgement. Normally I think things through, and that was my chance to learn that in fact it Is important to think carefully about every little step and movement that you are about to make.

 

[Lucifer]

I don't believe bone conduction Amplifies the sound. Perhaps it wasn't the sound, but the vibration, but then again sound Is vibration...

Too embarrassing. A momentary lapse of judgement. Normally I think things through, and that was my chance to learn that in fact it Is important to think carefully about every little step and movement that you are about to make.

The only thing that I could think of on why you put the sonic toothbrush in your ear is because it was itchy.

Please let me know if I'm right or wrong. You can send me a private DM if your too embarrassed to say.

 

[Eric N]

Can't you install one and then replace the battery with a dead battery?

Do you know if fire alarms are mandatory in Quebec, Canada, for a 2 floor semi detached house? I can't find a straight answer.

I had the batteries out since 10 years.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Do you know if fire alarms are mandatory in Quebec, Canada, for a 2 floor semi detached house? I can't find a straight answer.

I had the batteries out since 10 years.

Sorry, I don't. Most likely they are.

Are you concerned about being insured?

 

[Eric N]

Sorry, I don't. Most likely they are.

Are you concerned about being insured?

Yeah that and apparently they are required by law and you can be fined as well for not having one on each floor :S

 

[Bill Bauer]

apparently they are required by law and you can be fined as well for not having one on each floor

Nobody can enter your home to check. If the worst happens and there is a fire, if they find the remains of a fire alarm in the rubble it ought to be ok, even if they discover that the batteries are dead. They can't prove that you were the one who placed installed the dead batteries...

 

[Alue]

The smoke alarms I had installed in my place are 85db at 10ft, so loud enough to get my attention but not loud enough to do any damage. I just found them by google searching 85db smoke alarms. If I'm not mistaken they were first alert brand.

The fire alarm that went off near me multiple times over the weekend was a first alert brand. I set my decibel meter up to measure it approximately where I was sitting (setting it off with double protection and at a distance). It was 119db! I couldn't find the specific data, but the model is advertised to be an average of 85db which is very misleading. There were two in close proximity which could add about 3 decibels or so, but something is way off from what they are advertised to be or how the measurement is being done.

 

[frischky]

The fire alarm that went off near me multiple times over the weekend was a first alert brand. I set my decibel meter up to measure it approximately where I was sitting (setting it off with double protection and at a distance). It was 119db! I couldn't find the specific data, but the model is advertised to be an average of 85db which is very misleading. There were two in close proximity which could add about 3 decibels or so, but something is way off from what they are advertised to be or how the measurement is being done.

I just got blasted by one of these First Alert units the other night... it was about 10ft away, though my door was slightly closed. Family member decided to boil some chicken and forgot about it. I got a good 8 second exposure, before my X5A's went on and I took refuge in a closet while the family member (tried to) clear the alarm. Even with that it was still piercing through the muffs.

I'm also convinced these are more than 85 dB @ 10ft (minimum as the literature says)... how far away were you when you took that measurement and was it a professional (opposed to a phone) decibel meter?

 

[slc]

I have First Alert Smoke/Carbon Monoxide alarms.

My tenant, who lives in an apartment attached to the main house, set off the alarms at 10:30 pm. She called me hysterical. I was tired and had already taken my various meds (all tinnitus related: Gabapentin, Klonopin, Celexa). Not thinking, I went into her apartment without ear protection. I had to disconnect the hardwiring to get them to stop. Thus my exposure was a couple of minutes and very close to my ears.

My tinnitus has been way worse since then. I should have immediately gotten Prednisone, but didn't think of it until the window for that treatment had passed. The stapedius and TTM spasmed leaving me with muffled hearing in the left ear as well as reverberation when I spoke or heard a radio playing in the car.

It's been 5 weeks and things are only beginning to calm down. This is after my acupuncturist and brilliant craniosacral therapist have treated me.

THOSE FIRE ALARMS ARE DANGEROUS. I have now placed ear protection in various rooms of my own house. I would be very cautious with fire alarms. Probably best to not hardwire them although that is now the legal standard in my town. Absolutely do not install them in the bedroom. And have protection by the bedside in case they go off. The things should be banned at that decibel level.

As an aside, my one recent good day was the day after I took a Tai Chi class. Perhaps unrelated, but Tai Chi is calming and that has to be useful to reduce fight or flight...