Holotropic Breathwork, Sound Machines and Headphone Use

[Evlo]

Hi people,

I have been struggling with severe tinnitus for a while now. In the process of trying different things to cope. Holotropic breathwork is something I have been interested in for a while. Not that it will cure or reduce tinnitus, but that it might provide a better outlook on life. At the same time, I am a little concerned it might increase it. Has anyone here tried it?

Sound machines vs app and external speaker: is an external speaker that gets transmitted audio from an app similar in effect and quality to a sound machine? I am asking because there's no point buying a machine if I app and speaker does the same work.

Headphone use: I know that use of headphones for listening to music is not recommended. But what about for listening to podcasts, is that different?

Also on headphones: before I get a tinnitus masker, would it not be better to use headphones for white noise or sound enhancement when being in quiet places, but not being a able to use a speaker because other people around (e.g at the library)?

 

[CJK]

I would hate to bump this but I too am interested in holotropic breathing in relation to tinnitus. Tinnitus affects many of my family members, whether from Vietnam or not treating their ears right. Psychedelic mushrooms are one way to cure it but I want something more accessible.
I wonder how many vets commit suicide because of their tinnitus. It will drive you nuts!

 

[GuitarMan]

Headphone use: I know that use of headphones for listening to music is not recommended. But what about for listening to podcasts, is that different?

Also on headphones: before I get a tinnitus masker, would it not be better to use headphones for white noise or sound enhancement when being in quiet places, but not being a able to use a speaker because other people around (e.g at the library)?

There is no evidence that headphones, in and of themselves, cause or aggravate tinnitus. What matters is the volume.

 

[Lane]

There is no evidence that headphones, in and of themselves, cause or aggravate tinnitus. What matters is the volume.

Hi @GuitarMan -- What you say is contrary to almost countless posts on this forum. Personal testimonials may not be viewed as "evidence" per se by some, but I put a lot of stock into what people report about their tinnitus on this forum, especially what caused or exacerbated it.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Hi @GuitarMan -- What you say is contrary to almost countless posts on this forum. Personal testimonials may not be viewed as "evidence" per se by some, but I put a lot of stock into what people report about their tinnitus on this forum, especially what caused or exacerbated it.

Well said Lane. People that don't listen will eventually learn the hard way.

Take care,
Michael

 

[GuitarMan]

Hi @GuitarMan -- What you say is contrary to almost countless posts on this forum. Personal testimonials may not be viewed as "evidence" per se by some, but I put a lot of stock into what people report about their tinnitus on this forum, especially what caused or exacerbated it.

Correlation does not equal causation. Many of the people you mention would likely have developed tinnitus without headphone use.

There are exactly zero studies I have been able to find that show a causative link between headphones and tinnitus.

If people develop tinnitus as a result of using headphones, the most likely cause is that they simply listened to the headphones at volumes that caused hearing damage which is what led to tinnitus.

Bottom line, it's not the headphones themselves that are the cause, it's the volume they were listening at.

Until proven otherwise, I believe that what I say is in line with the number of studies that show a direct causative link between headphone use (absent excessive listening volume) and tinnitus: ZERO.

I have questioned this claim here before and asked for someone to explain the mechanism behind the purported causative link between headphones and tinnitus.

Think of it this way, I've been playing guitar for 30+ years. I could easily make the claim that playing guitar causes tinnitus. But the reality is that what caused my tinnitus is hearing damage and what cause the hearing damage wasn't playing guitar, it was playing guitar at very loud volume levels in very loud rock bands for 30+ years, plus two acute acoustic traumas within a few days of each other. Had I stuck to playing James Taylor songs on an acoustic guitar for these 30+ years, I'd be just fine.

BTW, hearing damage does not always lead to tinnitus. I know many people who are deaf as a post who don't have tinnitus.

 

[Lane]

Bottom line, it's not the headphones themselves that are the cause, it's the volume they were listening at.

I couldn't disagree with you more (though volume does matter). I tried noise-cancelling headphones once to see if it would help with my hyperacusis. Turns out it increased my tinnitus. It wasn't from "volume", as the noise entering my ears was less, or at least I perceived it as less.

Yet when I took them off, I noticed my tinnitus would be increased for several hours afterwards. That was my own experience.

Look at some of the testimonials on this forum. I don't know why you wouldn't want to believe people who report they've directly experienced an initial cause or exacerbation of their tinnitus from headphone use.

 

[GuitarMan]

I couldn't disagree with you more (though volume does matter). I tried noise-cancelling headphones once to see if it would help with my hyperacusis. Turns out it increased my tinnitus. It wasn't from "volume", as the noise entering my ears was less, or at least I perceived it as less.

Yet when I took them off, I noticed my tinnitus would be increased for several hours afterwards. That was my own experience.

Look at some of the testimonials on this forum. I don't know why you wouldn't want to believe people who report they've directly experienced an initial cause or exacerbation of their tinnitus from headphone use.

It's not a matter of not believing people, it's a matter of the likelihood that their conclusions are inaccurate. I'm still waiting for someone to explain the mechanism behind this causation.

Decibels are what cause hearing damage (aside from other potential causes such as pressure from things like diving deep underwater without equalizing, etc...). If I take a decibel meter, a real one, not an inaccurate phone app, and place it inside headphone cups as close to the speakers as possible, and measure the volume at, say, 70 dB, and I listen at that volume, can you or anyone else explain the mechanism at work that would cause tinnitus or make tinnitus any worse than being in a room with an equal ambient volume level?

I'm more than willing to change my mind if someone can explain the mechanics behind this claim.

As for noise canceling headphones, some people report dizziness from using them. Dizziness can sometimes cause temporary tinnitus. But there is an actual mechanism at work here because ANC manipulates the ambient sound and flips the phase which can cause the auditory system to get "confused" in a sense. Might this also have an effect on tinnitus? Possibly. But that's not what normal headphones do.

BTW, here's an actual mechanism that might cause the perception of an increase in tinnitus loudness - Headphones block out ambient sound. That ambient sound does mask tinnitus tones for many people. It also helps people habituate. But when you block out the ambient sounds, it puts the tinnitus tone front and center which can cause people to perceive it as being louder. Even after you remove the headphones, you're still focusing more on the tinnitus tone so it can seem like it's louder. But this wouldn't be much different than wearing earplugs. If earplugs make your tinnitus seem louder, then it's possible that wearing headphones might produce the same perception.

 

[Lane]

I'm more than willing to change my mind if someone can explain the mechanics behind this claim.

I seem to recall that somebody on this forum did explain the mechanics, but I'm not certain. One possible explanation would be that there's some kind of unnatural swirl of vibrations around sensitive inner ear parts that get affected completely separate from decibels. But hey, that's just a guess--perhaps a wild guess. All I can do is trust those on this forum who've reported they've experienced exacerbated tinnitus at very low headphone volumes.

 

[GuitarMan]

I seem to recall that somebody on this forum did explain the mechanics, but I'm not certain. One possible explanation would be that there's some kind of unnatural swirl of vibrations around sensitive inner ear parts that get affected completely separate from decibels. But hey, that's just a guess--perhaps a wild guess. All I can do is trust those on this forum who've reported they've experienced exacerbated tinnitus at very low headphone volumes.

So... still no explanation of the mechanics behind these claims. Call me skeptical but my background is in Information Technology and other fields that rely on facts and experiments that lead to repeatable results, not conjecture and anecdotes.

I'm not sure what this unnatural swirl might be. Is it measurable and has someone measured it? Is there a principle of acoustics at work?

If someone can explain the mechanism behind this, I'm genuinely interested. I know there are medications with mechanisms that are not fully understood such as antidepressants but at least we can test their effects which are documentable, measurable, and repeatable.

Like I said before, there are exactly zero research studies that show any kind of causative link between headphones and tinnitus.

But if you consider anecdotes to be evidence, I have one for you. When I started doing notched audio therapy I used headphones. I would sit at my desk for between 30 to 60 minutes a day listening to notched audio through headphones. My tinnitus actually improved until I got busier and no longer had the time to do this.

Sorry, I'm not buying the idea that headphones in and of themselves cause tinnitus and any time someone claims they do, I will ask for an explanation of the mechanism at work.