How Long Before Habituation of Perception Kicks In?

[Lisa123]

So I've had tinnitus for 10 months now. The last two months i've really gotten the habituation of reaction down, I think. I don't panic anymore, I don't cry everyday anymore, I don't frantically try to avoid the ringing anymore, I've picked up my life again, etc. So how long before my brain starts filtering out mr. T? (it's still annoying as heck)

I believe it's possible for T to become my 'new' silence. Since people who've been born with T don't really mind it and would probably go crazy if their T would disappear (oh the irony).

I've also been reading up on subjects like neuroplasticity, which I hope my brain is good at. (Superbrain by deepak chopra & Rudolph Tanzi, The brain's way of healing by norman doidge) Any other recommendations?

 

[Dr. Nagler]

So I've had tinnitus for 10 months now. The last two months i've really gotten the habituation of reaction down, I think. I don't panic anymore, I don't cry everyday anymore, I don't frantically try to avoid the ringing anymore, I've picked up my life again, etc. So how long before my brain starts filtering out mr. T? (it's still annoying as heck)

See here's the thing. And I do not wish to be argumentative in any way - just helpful. On the one hand, you say that you have "really gotten the habituation of reaction down" [you think], but on the other hand you say that your tinnitus is "still annoying as heck." Which means that you really don't have habituation of reaction down at all ... because tinnitus-induced annoyance is a reaction!

That's how I have come to see it, anyway.

Here's to quieter days ahead for all!

 

[Lisa123]

"still annoying as heck."

So I need to come to a point that it doesn't annoy me anymore? So I need to accept it completely as if I wouldn't mind having it or not? What a mindgame this is!

 

[BobDigi]

Sounds like you are early into habituation. Really early. Which is great. Cause I'll only get better. But if your finding your tinnitus annoying as heck, your not habituated.

 

[MattK]

I concur. I'm pretty much indifferent to my tinnitus now. Like right now I am listening to it and it evokes no emotion from me.

Every once in a while it can annoy me enough to make me turn on some music or something. But those times are pretty rare now.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

So I need to come to a point that it doesn't annoy me anymore? So I need to accept it completely as if I wouldn't mind having it or not? What a mindgame this is!

Lisa, I understand your frustration, really I do. But to me it is not in any way a game. To me it is straightforward neurophysiology. You may well be early into habituation (as @BobDigi suggests), but to me you have not "really gotten habituation of reaction down" ... because if you did, your tinnitus would not still be as "annoying as heck."

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I concur. I'm pretty much indifferent to my tinnitus now. Like right now I am listening to it and it evokes no emotion from me. Every once in a while it can annoy me enough to make me turn on some music or something. But those times are pretty rare now.

Excellent. And I suspect that given the opportunity to take a legitimate cure that had little or no side-effects, you would do so. But it is nowhere near the priority in your life that it once was, yes?

 

[MattK]

Excellent. And I suspect that given the opportunity to take a legitimate cure that had little or no side-effects, you would do so. But it is nowhere near the priority in your life that it once was, yes?

Yes. All things being equal, I'd rather not have tinnitus at all. But, the impact that my tinnitus has in my life is low enough to where I don't "need" a cure. This has freed my life. Because now I don't feel the need to obsess over something I have no control over anyway. It has also made it so that if a treatment is available, I will not be so desperate that I take it without finding out whether it has some long term effects. Hence the reason I wouldn't take Trobalt even if I had some.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Yes. All things being equal, I'd rather not have tinnitus at all. But, the impact that my tinnitus has in my life is low enough to where I don't "need" a cure. This has freed my life.

You may have previously posted about this, but can you tell us a bit about how you got from where you were to where you are now? As I recall, you pretty much did it on your own, yes?

 

[MattK]

You may have previously posted about this, but can you tell us a bit about how you got from where you were to where you are now? As I recall, you pretty much did it on your own, yes?

I can't really say I did it on my own, as I did get counseling from a CBT specialist who specialized in chronic pain patients. And while tinnitus isn't painful, apparently there are some similarities between the two. But I think there are a series of things that helped facilitate habituation for me. CBT counseling was definitely one of them.

Early on with having tinnitus, the only answer that I wanted to hear that I thought could bring me relief was, "What you have is not just a treatable condition, but a curable one. Don't worry, you'll be back to your old self in a week or so."

But as I was suffering with my tinnitus, I talked to my dad and told him about what was going on. Well, it turned out that he's had tinnitus for over 30 years due to hearing loss in the military. No only does he have hearing loss and tinnitus, but he also has distortion in his ear with tinnitus. And all of this time I never knew any of this until I started complaining about my tinnitus. He's never complained about it, nor has it ever to my recollection, kept him from living life, raising me and my siblings, having a successful career, etc. He told me it used to drive him crazy for years, but now he says he hardly ever thinks about it and it doesn't affect his daily life. He does admit that it is why he likes to sleep with the TV on though, so it can help mask his ringing.

Then I remember I was talking to one of my friends who is a doctor and was telling him about my ringing, and he told me he has it too. His was due to brain cancer surgery and now he is 100% deaf in one of his ears and has loud tinnitus in that ear. But this all happened to him before med school and he was able to go through med school and now has a successful career, got married and has kids. Anyway, to make a long story short, I began to talk to people and was surprised at how many people have tinnitus, and are living full lives. Not just living life around tinnitus, but actually living life as if tinnitus didn't exist, or at least not with any real impact on their life.

So back to my habituation, I realized that a cure simply didn't exist. But I began to realize that another way for me to be "cured" was that if the noise didn't bother me, then I wouldn't be so anxious and suicidal. And something stuck with me that my first ENT said. After he examined my ears and everything, he told me that he also has tinnitus in both ears and has had it for over 40 years... basically since he was a kid. He told me that he always thought it was normal; that is, he thought everyone heard the "ringing". He said it wasn't until he got to med school that he began to realize that what he had wasn't normal. Anyway, it made me think, "If I were born this way, then I wouldn't know any better. It would just be the way the world worked. It's only because I know it's not normal that it bothers me."

So I was determined not to let the ringing bother me. At first this was really hard to do, because it's hard to actively not notice something. But I went to work, I hung out with my wife and daughter, I hung out with family and friends, etc. In fact, I remember on several occasions when I wasn't doing well, I'd have a friend come over and we'd hang out... anything to take my mind off of my situation.

Then, last year I got a cancer scare (unrelated to tinnitus). Suddenly I realized my mortality greater than ever. I began to worry about my wife and daughter and was thinking about how I might not ever see my daughter grow up, get married, etc. Suddenly, worrying about tinnitus just seemed silly. Well, luckily there was no cancer, but it really put things into perspective for me.

Over time, I started to habituate passively, which I take it is supposed to be the way it's done. Tinnitus no longer had my primary attention, it had my secondary attention, and I've been at this stage for the better part of a year. I has only been in the last couple of months that there are large amounts of time when tinnitus doesn't have my attention at all.

So what helped me habituated? Well, for sure, acceptance. As long as I demanded a cure, I put myself in a no-win situation.

Next, learning and meeting about all the people I personally know who have tinnitus that I didn't even know had it, but are living full lives and not being controlled by tinnitus. I realized that if they could do it, then I should be able to as well.

Hanging out with loved ones, realizing that tinnitus can't stop me from enjoying the company of friends.

And of course, that cancer thing that helped me realize that tinnitus just simply isn't the worst possible thing that can happen to me. In fact, I had a college professor who was blind. He wasn't born blind. He got a virus in high school that attacked his optic nerves. I have no idea how, but he seems pretty happy with life, although he must get a lot of help. But if he can get along in life, then of course someone like me with just tinnitus can as well.

Sorry for such a long reply to your question... but as you can see, it's not an easy answer. But here's something I have been thinking of for several months: We can choose to face the day by being bitter about tinnitus and lay in bed all day, or we can choose to live the day by doing the things we enjoy. Regardless of which option we choose, we'll still have tinnitus at the end of the day. So why choose the former?

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I can't really say I did it on my own ...

Well, however you did it, Matt, I think that what you have accomplished is absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story with us, a story that reveals great determination, flexibility, and insight. And it paid off!

 

[linearb]

I just read a long thread on another forum from someone whose life was completely upended and controlled by tinnitus for more than 2 years, who now says it is only a small part of their life and not bothersome, 5 years after developing it.

There is no set timeline.

 

[Kaelon]

There are no hard-and-fast rules here about habituation with Tinnitus -- everyone on this thread is entirely spot on. For most people, research released by the American Tinnitus Association shows that they are able to habituate starting around 12-18 months, but again, this is just a rule of thumb. Some people need years to habituate; others can habituate in just a few months. There are a lot of factors that go into this, though it is generally accepted by cognitive behavioral therapists that the intrusiveness of the stimulus is not, generally, a factor: the body's reaction, certainly, is.

I'm wondering, @Lisa123, if my explanation that I gave to you back in March, is helpful for the mechanism of habituation. Anyone can habituate to anything, ultimately, but sometimes you need help and Dr. Nagler is totally right: it's less important how you actually habituate, than that you've actually habituated. Signs that you have habituated, generally, mean that you either don't notice the tinnitus unless you hone in and try to find it; or, you simply don't care and are totally indifferent.

Most people habituate on their own, with no help. Many people, however, require help because of numerous neuropsychological factors that would make habituation very difficult.. And some people require help because they're just not willing to wait for the natural process of habituating normally. It may be possible, Lisa, that you've started the habituation process, but that progress here is too slow for you. There's nothing wrong you can do now -- some people argue that taking benzo-drugs might delay the onset of habituation, but I personally (just based upon my opinion from what I have read online and researched these past six months) disagree: anything that helps you get good sleep at night helps the body and mind heal, and the task of habituation is really only possible when you can live the rest of your life and stop obsessing.

 

[Telis]

There are a lot of factors that go into this, though it is generally accepted by cognitive behavioral therapists that the intrusiveness of the stimulus is not, generally, a factor: the body's reaction, certainly, is

This concept is generally excepted by them, but not by the people that actually have tinnitus. Everyone knows a volume reduction or "low day" is a good day and life goes on, tinnitus gets put to the background. When professionals spew out this kind of garbage it makes me sick to my stomach. And if the "intrusiveness is not generally a factor" why all these people here trying to lower their T so they can habituate and get back to life? Or why Is there research happening to lower the volume? Why would someone want to spend 40k on hifu surgery to lower the stimulus? I had moderate to loud T at onset, I was starting to habituate in a couple of months, now I have 10 out of 10 T and I can barely function, never mind habituate. I have never, not one time have heard from a T sufferer that a spike does not effect them, obviously it matters, it's just common sense, these so called professionals can't see the signal so they just chalk it all up to reaction, absolutely unbelievable. I guess they make more $$$$ this way.

I have read story after story of people here at TT with minor T for years or decades and it never bothering them or that they had habituated years earlier, and then one day it got worse and now they suffer. These experts don't know anything, or they just choose to believe whatever suits them, all they would have to do is ask any person with tinnitus how they feel if their T spikes or vise versa, it matters. Is this concept really that confusing? I feel like I'm stuck in the twilite zone here. It's the difference between someone whispering at you or screaming at you, is this hard to understand for some? The louder the stimulus the more effect it will have on ANY given person, that goes for voice, music, tinnitus etc etc....anything. It's just a bit of common sense, that's it.

I think professionals that are paid to help tinnitus sufferers should listen to their patients instead of coming up with their own bizzare theories.

It's no wonder there is no treatment to reduce tinnitus, after all according to these "experts" its not even a factor.

 

[Carm]

This concept is generally excepted by them, but not by the people that actually have tinnitus. Everyone knows a volume reduction or "low day" is a good day and life goes on, tinnitus gets put to the background. When professionals spew out this kind of garbage it makes me sick to my stomach. And if the "intrusiveness is not generally a factor" why all these people here trying to lower their T so they can habituate and get back to life? Or why Is there research happening to lower the volume? Why would someone want to spend 40k on hifu surgery to lower the stimulus? I had moderate to loud T at onset, I was starting to habituate in a couple of months, now I have 10 out of 10 T and I can barely function, never mind habituate. I have never, not one time have heard from a T sufferer that a spike does not effect them, obviously it matters, it's just common sense, these so called professionals can't see the signal so they just chalk it all up to reaction, absolutely unbelievable. I guess they make more $$$$ this way.

I have read story after story of people here at TT with minor T for years or decades and it never bothering them or that they had habituated years earlier, and then one day it got worse and now they suffer. These experts don't know anything, or they just choose to believe whatever suits them, all they would have to do is ask any person with tinnitus how they feel if their T spikes or vise versa, it matters. Is this concept really that confusing? I feel like I'm stuck in the twilite zone here. It's the difference between someone whispering at you or screaming at you, is this hard to understand for some? The louder the stimulus the more effect it will have on ANY given person, that goes for voice, music, tinnitus etc etc....anything. It's just a bit of common sense, that's it.

I think professionals that are paid to help tinnitus sufferers should listen to their patients instead of coming up with their own bizzare theories.

It's no wonder there is no treatment to reduce tinnitus, after all according to these "experts" its not even a factor.

You should be seen by a therapist, not spout your anger here.

Just like with depression - or any other ailment - there are people who are convinced they can't be helped because their tinnitus, hyperacusis, you name it is so unique and bad.

You are one of those people. You think your situation is somehow special.

There are millions and millions people out there with severe tinnitus who have habituated.

Do you ever read your messages? You assume you have it worst, you assume nobody could habituate to your tinnitus.

Until you've lived in other people's shoes, you shouldn't be making such claims.

 

[SleeplessSoul]

@Kaelon can one habituate if the tinnitus was caused by tapering from long term (low dose) benzos and still on the low dose?
Anyone?
I need medication whether or not it's benzo induced and am wondering if it will ever settle down or will I be able to habituate to it?
My husband has it but his isn't as loud as mine and like the other story on here, I didn't know he had tinnitus until I got it and freaked out. He is a musician and has lived his life very normally and clean.
I am struggling with the fact that trying to taper my Ativan a few weeks back caused a severe spike that hasn't calmed down at all. I even updosed to the original and it didn't fix it.
Maybe it was coming on anyway because it started in one ear only for four months and then hit my whole brain. I thought tmj related t was in the ears and not coming equally out of the brain.
I only have hearing loss to 6000 hz or whatever that means? Can that cause t?? No one seems to know.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

can one habituate if the tinnitus was caused by tapering from long term (low dose) benzos and still on the low dose?

Yes. The process might take a bit longer, but the answer is ... Yes.

 

[Telis]

You should be seen by a therapist, not spout your anger here.

Just like with depression - or any other ailment - there are people who are convinced they can't be helped because their tinnitus, hyperacusis, you name it is so unique and bad.

You are one of those people. You think your situation is somehow special.

There are millions and millions people out there with severe tinnitus who have habituated.

Do you ever read your messages? You assume you have it worst, you assume nobody could habituate to your tinnitus.

Until you've lived in other people's shoes, you shouldn't be making such claims.

Huh? What are you going on about? I was talking about tinnitus suffering in gereral and gave an example of how it effects me as well.

And I make claims based on what people post here.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

And I make claims based on what people post here.

Right, you do.

@Carm correctly points out that "There are millions and millions people out there with severe tinnitus who have habituated." And you make your claims based on those who by and large have not ... or they would not be posting on a support board in the first place.

 

[Vincent R]

You should be seen by a therapist, not spout your anger here.

Just like with depression - or any other ailment - there are people who are convinced they can't be helped because their tinnitus, hyperacusis, you name it is so unique and bad.

You are one of those people. You think your situation is somehow special.

There are millions and millions people out there with severe tinnitus who have habituated.

Do you ever read your messages? You assume you have it worst, you assume nobody could habituate to your tinnitus.

Until you've lived in other people's shoes, you shouldn't be making such claims.

I suspect this is a bit of a simplification. It's excellent to hear that you've habituated, and there's no doubt you're just one among many. However, there may be reasons to why habituation becomes particulary difficult:

1. T is severe.

2. H tags along with it.

3. T is unstable and gets worse.

4. Sensitiveness to the specific kind of negative stimuli T generates.

5. Other, chronical medical problems that put strain on a persons mental and physical resources.

Since there's factors that make habituation more or less difficult, the bar may in certain cases be so high that it in fact becomes impossible or close to impossible. If a person is really bad off and wants to do somehing about it, in my experience they will have to rely on their own abilities, research and creativity rather than some therapeut or doctor.

I've read two reviews from people here on TT that underwent TRT, and ended up with even worse T-symptoms. Feeding their ears with noise from inner ear headpones, which to my understandring are used within TRT, for a lot of time in hindsight seem to have been not the best of ideas. I've read another review from a T-sufferer who wanted a diagnose, and when the medical staff tested the persons hearing they raised the volume so much that it aggravated the T permanently.

That's were "experts" get you. As a rule of thumb, you're screwed the very moment you let someone else do the thinking for you, and that's how life often works in general. I got T in the first place because I let my guard down, so I don't plan on repeating that mistake over an over again.

Don't get me wrong, I think doctors are great but only for conditions were there are a clear cut solution. In my book, it doesn't make much sense to be angry with them because they cant't sort out the difficulties a T-sufferer may be up against, because that means you've made the mistake to expect something from them in the first place.

In your case, it seems like you benefited from CBT counseling, and that's fair play to your therapeut and to yourself, but for some people the harsh circumstances of reality doesn't work out that well. And if you can't see others reality for what it in fact is, you won't be able to help them, or offer them usefull advice.

That's how I see it, anyway.

 

[Telis]

Right, you do.

@Carm correctly points out that "There are millions and millions people out there with severe tinnitus who have habituated." And you make your claims based on those who by and large have not ... or they would not be posting on a support board in the first place.

Ok, sure intensity doesn't mater, I surender. Maybe it doesn't for everyone else but for me it does. If I had a 50 percent reduction I would be just fine, maybe I'm the exception here, I will admit that.

 

[Kaelon]

Yes. The process might take a bit longer, but the answer is ... Yes.

Dr. Nagler is 100% correct. It's also important to realize a couple of things, @Lisa123:

1. There are certain behaviors that can lengthen the habituation process; there's no total consensus on what these are, but like benzo withdrawals (which in essence cause an amplification of perceived tinnitus), these behaviors distract the brain from its critical task of de-prioritizing neural pathways that are responsible for escalating Tinnitus into the forefront of your consciousness. Neuropsychological studies maintain that from a cognitive behavioral perspective, your best bet is to actively catch yourself noticing the Tinnitus and then actively focus on something else (this is a core tenet of CBT for Tinnitus, in general, and is based upon pathway experiential manipulation). Some therapies, like Tinnitus Retraining Therapy, makes use of audio devices to assist the brain in de-focusing, and can facilitate accelerated habituation in some people.
   
   
2. Don't beat yourself up over the benzo withdrawal situation. You can drive yourself crazy with this mind game. The alternative here is that if you never went on the benzo to begin with, you could have deprived yourself of critical sleep and necessary healing that keeps your sanity. For many people, in time, they recognize that the trade-off -- using benzo to make it through the critical first few quarters of Tinnitus, especially if it's highly intrusive; but then getting a lengthier habituation time table in return -- was totally worth it. I suspect you will be fine as well and you can absolutely habituate even while you are on benzo drugs long-term.

I am keeping you in my thoughts.

 

[tshapiro]

@Lisa123 I had very little improvementss for 7 months of terrible painful T. Then, my ears went virtually quiet and I have head T at about a 4. At 8 months I am beginning to go the better part of the day without noticing T unless I'm in a quiet place. My approach was to mask 24 hours a day with a noise app that always covered up my T. White noise was no help... sprinkler sounds worked great. I got on with a routine of setting up my masking sounds with various devices and just accepted that this was my new reality. My personal approach was to never give my give my brain a chance to focus on the T. At 8 months, I'm forgetting to use masking. I hear my head T but it's not bothering me. This is a huge improvement over what I was experiencing at 6 months. Sounds like you are already a few months into it more than me. But, I believe that once you get your coping routine it's just a matter of time before your brain adapts. You don't need to do anything but get on with your life knowing that things will get better on their own a tiny bit each day. Don't measure your progress. Somedays are worse than others. Just learn to live with it while your brain is slowly adapting. I never 'accepted' it. I just learned to live with it even though I hated it. I just had faith that my brain would eventually make it better. So, with that faith, I stopped worrying about trying to make it better. I just tried to make everyday a good day living with T.

Hope this helps you thru the upcoming months as your brain adapts as well.

Todd

 

[Geo]

@Telis i agree with you.. ive see a lot of ppl claim they have really bad t they say 10/10 when they will never get that in their life..when in reality its mild.. And until it actually worsens on them they go crazy and cant believe it and will write it on the thread.. I believe that ppl with severe t are very unlikely to habituate( when u dont notice it anymore) maybe there have been ppl but not as common as mild...and like telis said if i can get at least half of my t cut i would jump for joy...85-90% of t sufferers wont get to severe status when they claim they are and if u do then u will truly find out the real monster..but everyone is built different so cant judge ppl and how they react to their t..

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Ok, sure intensity doesn't mater, I surender. Maybe it doesn't for everyone else but for me it does. If I had a 50 percent reduction I would be just fine, maybe I'm the exception here, I will admit that.

Well that's not going to happen. You want it to happen, and I want it to happen for you. But it's just not going to happen - at least not in the foreseeable future.

So as I said in another thread, you can learn to live with in harmony ... or you can learn to live with it in agony. Faced with that choice, I would do everything in my power to learn to live with it in harmony. But I think that what @Carm is saying above is that you seem bent on learning to live with it in agony. And neither she nor I can figure out why!

 

[Carm]

I think that what @Carm is saying above is that you seem bent on learning to live with in agony.

Exactly.

@Telis is one of the very small group of people (when you count all tinnitus sufferers in the world) who have this self-destructive outlook on tinnitus.

He is convinced he can't feel better or accept his tinnitus unless there is a noticeable decrease in tinnitus loudness.

All the while a number of other people are managing to do just that!

This psychological blockage @Telis is feeling about himself and his tinnitus needs to be removed before he can again enjoy life - tinnitus or no tinnitus!

I will pray for you Telis.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Ok, sure intensity doesn't mater, I surender. Maybe it doesn't for everyone else but for me it does.

Telis, there are a number of people on this board who like to bait you (and others) with their smart talk; there are a number of people who like to post success stories even though they don't have much to celebrate. I can only speculate as to why that is, but my guess is that there is some amount of basic human psychology at play: a self-delusional mindset caused by suffering and with the individual creating an illusion for him- or her-self that "volume doesn't matter" as the only way out. Now, a self-delusional mindset is bad enough in itself, but when those types of fallacies are then spewed left, right, and centre onto other people such as yourself, that's a whole other problem.

Like yourself, I had "off-the-chart" tinnitus during the beginning of my ordeal back in April, 2013. No one understood my situation - including health professionals - and I (quickly) realized that I was essentially in a fight-for-my-life. Literally. It doesn't take a nuclear physicist to realize that volume does matter. In fact, it is pretty much the only thing that matters. And for that very reason, I also realized that (attempting) to reduce the volume would be my only hope for a better future. The rest of the story you know already.

The above is also the reason why I have been so focused on tracking down proper data on clinical trial developments, liaising with researchers, and signing up with Team Trobalt to do whatever possible to help others in a similar situation. Due to my tinnitus treatments and situation in general (caused by tinnitus), I have had more than a few extra hours to spare for a while now, but that will be coming to an end in the not too distant future as I will be applying my skills to other earthly matters. Hopefully, there will be others in my place who can assist with tracking down data and keep the bullshit levels down.

I have come to know in practice what you already know in theory: that volume does matter - and that knowledge is the very reason I am so much better. You can find a couple of other testimonials here:

as a general update for you guys, my t is still super low and very stable, really does not bother me anymore. most of the days it is near silent, and then i might have 2 or 3 days every few weeks which are slightly louder, but it is no longer the loud random pitches but a stable low ringing. i have not had H in almost 2 months, which i feel has a lot to do with the RTG, and frankly H was the biggest problem for me.

I truly consider myself one of the luckiest people on the planet...my whole world, my reality seems like such a more beautiful place than it ever did before I went through the immense suffering that I did... I plan to visit the board occasionally to check up on the retigabine thread, maybe once a month or so- but not too often as I do lose my temper with certain factions on here pretty easily, and its just not productive and I no longer need the support that this site provided in spades during my darkest days... wishing you all the best of luck and silence eventually

And the following passage sums up pretty much exactly how I feel about certain parts of the self-delusional tinnitus community and its impact on the rest of us:

an example of a useful "fairytale" is trt... the heller and bergman study that the "model" is based upon has been discredited by a couple studies since, but Dr. Nagler claimed that these studies validated the earlier study-- they didn't- he simply didn't want to know the truth, or had no interest in it because he so invested in a "fairy tell" that's not true and has been useful to him... my point being "fairy tells" can be useful and even helpful in an individual context, but when everyone in an afflicted group buys into the same or related fairy tells regarding an "affliction" not being as big of a deal as it is.. thats how the tinnitus community is at the point where its at now: tinnitus organizations like the ata fund trt and magnesium studies, most doctors in a clinical setting don't consider it an affliction-- and who can blame them when even a previous "sufferer" like yourself holds the same ridiculous belief—getting better shouldn't require a person to check their logic and IQ at the door, and the fact that for some sufferers it seems to indeed require that is another support for my position that tinnitus is most definitely an "affliction"

attheedgeofscience
07/MAY/2015.

 

[Carm]

Telis, there are a number of people on this board who like to bait you (and others) with their smart talk; there are a number of people who like to post success stories even though they don't have much to celebrate. I can only speculate as to why that is, but my guess is that there is some amount of basic human psychology at play: a self-delusional mindset caused by suffering and with the individual creating an illusion for him- or her-self that "volume doesn't matter" as the only way out. Now, a self-delusional mindset is bad enough in itself, but when those types of fallacies are then spewed left, right, and centre onto other people such as yourself, that's a whole other problem.

Like yourself, I had "off-the-chart" tinnitus during the beginning of my ordeal back in April, 2013. No one understood my situation - including health professionals - and I (quickly) realized that I was essentially in a fight-for-my-life. Literally. It doesn't take a nuclear physicist to realize that volume does matter. In fact, it is pretty much the only thing that matters. And for that very reason, I also realized that (attempting) to reduce the volume would be my only hope for a better future. The rest of the story you know already.

The above is also the reason why I have been so focused on tracking down proper data on clinical trial developments, liaising with researchers, and signing up with Team Trobalt to do whatever possible to help others in a similar situation. Due to my tinnitus treatments and situation in general (caused by tinnitus), I have had more than a few extra hours to spare for a while now, but that will be coming to an end in the not too distant future as I will be applying my skills to other earthly matters. Hopefully, there will be others in my place who can assist with tracking down data and keep the bullshit levels down.

I have come to know in practice what you already know in theory: that volume does matter - and that knowledge is the very reason I am so much better. You can find a couple of other testimonials here:



And the following passage sums up pretty much exactly how I feel about certain parts of the self-delusional tinnitus community and its impact on the rest of us:

attheedgeofscience
07/MAY/2015.

I think you are way off base.

It almost feels you are delusional yourself, thinking that the only solution is to reduce the loudness!

As long as a person does not have a negative reaction to their tinnitus, it does not matter how loud you perceive the tinnitus. I know more than one person who have tinnitus so loud that they can hear it over the noise of a busy restaurant. And are they habituated? Yes! They go about their lives, tinnitus has minimal impact on their lives.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[Telis]

Well that's not going to happen. You want it to happen, and I want it to happen for you. But it's just not going to happen - at least not in the foreseeable future.

So as I said in another thread, you can learn to live with in harmony ... or you can learn to live with it in agony. Faced with that choice, I would do everything in my power to learn to live with it in harmony. But I think that what @Carm is saying above is that you seem bent on learning to live with it in agony. And neither she nor I can figure out why!

I'm bent on suffering? What on earth are you taking about? I Had posted that intensity matters, I'm not sure what you and @Carm are going on about here. Let's stay on track please.

And Dr. Nagler, are you reading people's posts? You seem to go off on a tangent in most cases, how about you join the current discussion for a change? If you agree with @Carm and @Kaelon in this discussion why in the world are you are you wishing my T would go down 50%? If you agree with them that in fact the intensity does not matter, this wouldn't help me anyway right?????? How do you keep a reputation contradicting yourself so much?I guess people don't nottice as they are busy suffering? Handy for you! I dont dislike you in any way, in fact I respect you and you are obviously way smarter than I but no offense but my BS meter goes off the charts every time I read one of your posts, maybe its faulty these days but it's served me well in the past your posts seem to be more a sales style/TRT pitchman than a legit doctors opinion.

In closing, the intensity of any condition matters, it doesn't take a smart man like yourself to understand this. Besides this, if I do recall your tinnitus intensity changed and you had to rehabituate?? If intensity doesn't matter, why did you have to go through rehabituation again if none of this is an issue? I'm pretty sure you will take quotes out of context here and go off into another universe with this....probably another cliche saying like "drive your own tinnitus bus"or something along those lines but I think that most people after time, reading enough of your posts can easily catch you fumbling about and just plain provoking people. It took me while, I was always puzzled with people in combat with a good doctor that is here to help. Well, I'm a slow learner but I get it now.

Please...Nagler groupies, TRT advocates or the self appointed TT police take it easy on me, it's just an opinion, dont freakin loose your shit here.

 

[Telis]

@Telis

Maybe you don't have t at all?!
Maybe your brain just decided to suffer and ruin your life for the fun of it!!!

So true, I'm bent on suffering after all, it's not the the actual T, I just love the suffering so much. And apparently if my T went down 99 percent it would make no differnece anyway, it has nothing to do with intensity after all. I can't believe that there are not more members that find some of these postings absolutely bizzare. It's almost as if we are just imagining this condition when it comes to some. I guess this is and never will be a legit condition with this point of view.

****People out there, I am being sarcastic on some parts of this message, don't quote me out of context please*****