How Much Would It Cost to See Dirk De Ridder?

[Dubbyaman]

I live in the US.

I wonder how much it would cost to fly overseas to see Dirk De Ridder.

I wonder what the total cost would be for air travel, testing, possible treatments etc.

 

[Hazel]

Perhaps a useful piece of info: I contacted Dirk de Ridder via email a while ago. He is currently working in New Zealand, but he told me that he is likely to be back in his home country (Belgium) working in Gent as of 1 June. Just wanted to let you know before you buy tickets to NZ when you should be buying tickets to Europe :-D

 

[GregCA]

I wonder how much it would cost to fly overseas to see Dirk De Ridder.

What is interesting in his approach to T? (I assume that's why you want to meet him)

 

[Dubbyaman]

@GregCA

 

[Krolo]

https://www.brai3n.com
Their clinic.

 

[EDDTEKK]

Hazel: did I understood correctly that dirk de ridder will move to Belgium again ? He just left his country to work in NZ..

 

[Yo-Han]

Hazel: did I understood correctly that dirk de ridder will move to Belgium again ? He just left his country to work in NZ..

That was about 5 years ago according to a Dutch hearing forum. Seems he might move again.

Their new clinic is just about in my back yard in a big renovated landhouse/villa. It's a 5 minute walk from the central station in Ghent. Ghent - Brussels airport is about 30 minutes by train (if you are lucky with the inter city).

brai2n.com still exists too. That's in Antwerp.

@Dubbyaman could also contact Sven Vanneste, a former and current co-worker of Dr. De Ridder.
https://www.utdallas.edu/bbs/faculty/detail.php5?i=1201

He's in the United States now. He's also listed on the new brai3n staff list along with Dr. De Ridder.
It seems these doctors do a lot of Skype meets and videoconferencing according to the brain Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/brai3n/

 

[EDDTEKK]

Hi @Yo-Han,

What is the difference between the new clinic, brai2n and brai3n?

 

[Telis]

Watched the presentation, what's new? This is all shit that's been posted here a million times.

 

[Yo-Han]

Hi @Yo-Han,

What is the difference between the new clinic, brai2n and brai3n?

Just the staff it seems, and the location.

Antwerp has a large hospital connected. Ghent has now more or less original starter staff of the old Brain clinic in Antwerp. When Dr De Ridder left for NZ he supervised the Antwerp part over the internet I guess. Now it's probably running on its own in Antwerp, dunno.

Ghent is located in a a villa with what seems just the brain stimulation stuff and some offices.

New for Ghent seems to be an ENT surgeon in the staff who did research in the area 'unwanted resonation in the cochlea causing possible hyperacusis and TTTS' . My guess is they'll refer to close by hospitals for most of the brain scans. That ENT for e.x. is connected to a nearby hospital.

Furthermore nothing new like @Telis says.
They're are neurologists and neuro guys with high interest in neuromodulation research and brain behaviour. Their approach is 'academical'. Working with multiple universities now: Dallas, US, New Zealand, South Korea, Ghent maybe.

The Ghent site claims about 40% success rate with tinnitus and hyperacusis. That's if they see a cause after all those damn loud tests that can make you .... worse for some! I don't know if they do some or most of the notorious loud tests. MRI and fMRI seems one they do if they think it's needed.

In short:
According your (q)EEG they'll do neuro stimulation.

According ENT tests to rule out stuff, they'll try a minor invasive surgery for TTTS and hyperacusis if they think its unwanted resonances in the middle ear (see link):

http://www.tympres.net/

Here's the whole older thread:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/brai2n-tinnitus-clinic-in-belgium.7/

I stand by my older replies.
They are no tinnitus or hyperacusis miracle workers there, they do not claim to. There's more options now or in the near future for neuro modulation than these guys can offer (for people who would travel so far).

On a very positive sidenote: their expanded collaborative academic research might be seen as a positive towards better treatments in the future. It's also about more than tinnitus and hyperacusis.

 

[Bart]

I recently had Jan Ost on the phone, one of the staff at Brai3n in Ghent.

They only treat severe cases, and the chance of success is not very good, and it's temporary, the chance of success is between 30 and 40 %, the full treatment of 6 sessions would cost about 1000 euros, with no guarantees, in the UZ hospital in Antwerp they offer the same treatment for only 300 euros though.

In my opinion it is not worth the trip and expense if you have to travel from the US.

 

[Yo-Han]

They state 40% success rate at their Facebook page. So that seems fair in informing people before they dish out their cash. 3x the price might be the 'top doctor' premium... or to pay for that villa.

 

[Bart]

They state 40% success rate at their Facebook page. So that seems fair in informing people before they dish out their cash. 3x the price might be the 'top doctor' premium... or to pay for that villa.

Well, when I asked about the price difference at the UZA hospital, the ENT doctor there said that because brai3n is a private clinic they need to make a profit, while the hospital just needs to break even, but the treatment is the same .

Although at brai3n they claim a 40% succes rate while the ENT at the hospital said that from there statisitcs it is around 30 % , so take it for what it's worth .

 

[Yo-Han]

@Bart. Thx. I wasn't planning on going. I knew the results from Antwerp for years now due to online investigation.

 

[Krolo]

Regarding the Brai2n clinic they no longer offer any Treatments . Guess that went away when the original team dissapeared.

I was in mail convo with Jan and they also do have the new HD-TES stimulation available. I believe it is worth a shot compared to all other options out there.
Might be going but kinda have issues with very low LDL right now.

 

[jay777]

It should be made a crime to profit out of tinnitus

 

[Mentos]

I have an online appointment with Dirk De Ridder on May 18th. It's 80 EUR for 30 minutes.

 

[Chinmoku]

I have an online appointment with Dirk De Ridder on May 18th. It's 80 EUR for 30 minutes.

That's quite honest as a honorarium for a top specialist. There are London ENTs who would charge £150-200 for 30 minutes who know next to nothing about tinnitus.

P.S. @Mentos, did you book the appointment through Brai3n?

I'm desperate and it might be worth it for me to ask for an appointment to prof. De Ridder too. Ghent is not too far from London by train but right now with COVID-19 it's hard to travel and travelling with this tinnitus is a nightmare.

Can you let me know through what channel you booked your appointment? Thanks.

 

[Johan001]

That's quite honest as a honorarium for a top specialist. There are London ENTs who would charge £150-200 for 30 minutes who know next to nothing about tinnitus.

I was charged £220 for a 5-minute chat with an ENT to get told that I should shut up because I have no breast cancer.

I then paid £450 to another ENT to hear that my hearing test results are normal, the ENT is happy he doesn't have tinnitus himself and I should call Samaritans if I get suicidal.

Oh yes, also £380 for a neurologist who said I shouldn't worry as my tinnitus may soon go away.

On top of that, £350 for a shrink who put me on overpriced antidepressants, like literally 4 times overpriced. And after I got hooked, he'd charge me extra £300 to continue my prescription until I found a way to get them on NHS for just £9.

 

[Chinmoku]

I was charged £220 for a 5-minute chat with an ENT to get told that I should shut up because I have no breast cancer.

I then paid £450 to another ENT to hear that my hearing test results are normal, the ENT is happy he doesn't have tinnitus himself and I should call Samaritans if I get suicidal.

Oh yes, also £380 for a neurologist who said I shouldn't worry as my tinnitus may soon go away.

On top of that, £350 for a shrink who put me on overpriced antidepressants, like literally 4 times overpriced. And after I got hooked, he'd charge me extra £300 to continue my prescription until I found a way to get them on NHS for just £9.

My goodness, London is bad but this is much worse than what happened to me. It's like the experienced ENT nurse told me in a London hospital: don't go to doctor after doctor to help with tinnitus, nobody can help you.

Did the antidepressant help at least, and was it a new one that can only be prescribed by a psychiatrist or a standard one that can be prescribed by a GP?

As with depression it's a pill guessing game, in the beginning there is little added value in seeing a psychiatrist compared to your GP.

 

[Ben Winders]

I have an online appointment with Dirk De Ridder on May 18th. It's 80 EUR for 30 minutes.

Where did you book that appointment? Through the Brai3n website?

On the Brai3n website it says a consultation with De Ridder costs 120 EUR:

"Consultation Prof. Dr. Dirk De Ridder **: € 120"

Source:
https://www.brai3n.com/en/practical/)

I already did some therapy at Brai3n, the really "light" Neuromodulation (no current sent to my brain). I wonder if it would be beneficial for me to have a chat with De Ridder since I've already spoken with both doctors and Jan Ost at Brai3n.

I've got no idea if De Ridder would be able to add anything else.

 

[Johan001]

My goodness, London is bad but this is much worse than what happened to me. It's like the experienced ENT nurse told me in a London hospital: don't go to doctor after doctor to help with tinnitus, nobody can help you.

Did the antidepressant help at least, and was it a new one that can only be prescribed by a psychiatrist or a standard one that can be prescribed by a GP?

As with depression it's a pill guessing game, in the beginning there is little added value in seeing a psychiatrist compared to your GP.

Yeah, I never expected such cruelty from the profession that is supposed to actually help you, I was naively thinking of the Hippocratic Oath, but apparently it doesn't apply to tinnitus.

As for the antidepressant, it was just a regular Mirtazapine that I paid a few grand for.

It's just downright criminal. I saw another ENT in Amsterdam, who was very blunt, but less cruel than the London ones.

I think if I went to a drug dealer down the street I'd be treated with more respect.

 

[Chinmoku]

Yeah, I never expected such cruelty from the profession that is supposed to actually help you, I was naively thinking of the Hippocratic Oath, but apparently it doesn't apply to tinnitus.

As for the antidepressant, it was just a regular Mirtazapine that I paid a few grand for.

It's just downright criminal. I saw another ENT in Amsterdam, who was very blunt, but less cruel than the London ones.

I think if I went to a drug dealer down the street I'd be treated with more respect.

That's ridiculous. In London Mirtazapine can be prescribed by a GP at zero cost, they usually prescribe it when there are also sleep problems and anxiety as a comorbidity. I was prescribed it by GPs in the past.

The amount of money they charged you is criminal. Dr. De Ridder looks much more reasonable than those squalid individuals, he is both an academic and a clinician, he has an international reputation, he authored several research works. 120 EUR for a full meeting with him is very very reasonable, London lackeys might charge you £300 or £400 for a full first appointments, especially in the posh Harley Street area. What a waste. There are good and honest doctors in London but there are also so many chancers who behave as if the pleasant venue and red carpet were more important than medical effectiveness and competence. One has to be very careful, especially so when ending up in the Harley Street area.

 

[Mentos]

That's quite honest as a honorarium for a top specialist. There are London ENTs who would charge £150-200 for 30 minutes who know next to nothing about tinnitus.

P.S. @Mentos, did you book the appointment through Brai3n?

I'm desperate and it might be worth it for me to ask for an appointment to prof. De Ridder too. Ghent is not too far from London by train but right now with COVID-19 it's hard to travel and travelling with this tinnitus is a nightmare.

Can you let me know through what channel you booked your appointment? Thanks.

Yes, via the Brai3n website. I emailed them today and got a reply within an hour.

They gave me an online appointment on Zoom for Tuesday, so almost no waiting time.

@Ben Winders, indeed, on their website the price listed is 120 EUR, but when I asked about an online one they confirmed 80 EUR, perhaps they differentiate the price between onsite and online, which is very fair.

I've also spoken with Jan Ost who analysed my qEEG and I did some tDCS / tRNS treatments in Poland based on a protocol provided by Brai3n. I have no clue if Dr. De Ridder can add anything valuable to my case, but since the consultation is not overpriced and having it online is no effort logistically, I decided to give it a try. It's always an opportunity to ask if Dr. De Ridder has any novel treatments in the pipeline, for instance HD/multichannel tDCS that he mentioned at one of his recent lectures.

I will report here an outcome of my Tuesday talk with him.

 

[Johan001]

That's ridiculous. In London Mirtazapine can be prescribed by a GP at zero cost, they usually prescribe it when there are also sleep problems and anxiety as a comorbidity. I was prescribed it by GPs in the past.

The amount of money they charged you is criminal. Dr. De Ridder looks much more reasonable than those squalid individuals, he is both an academic and a clinician, he has an international reputation, he authored several research works. 120 EUR for a full meeting with him is very very reasonable, London lackeys might charge you £300 or £400 for a full first appointments, especially in the posh Harley Street area. What a waste. There are good and honest doctors in London but there are also so many chancers who behave as if the pleasant venue and red carpet were more important than medical effectiveness and competence. One has to be very careful, especially so when ending up in the Harley Street area.

Exactly. Dr. De Ridder looks legit.

I went to the Harley Street, my God I got fleeced down there. That £450 ENT referred me to his mate, who is "tinnitus specialist", who tried to charge me £250 for a quick telephone call! I wonder where the karma is for those quacks...

 

[Markku]

I was contemplating if I should post this, as I tend to want to avoid endorsing anyone. But, one of the most common complaints we get is how doctors approach patients when they present with tinnitus. So I feel I'm allowed this one.

With regards to tinnitus, if there's one doctor I'd be happy to give my money to, it's probably Dr. De Ridder. Like @Chinmoku said, the fact that he's both a clinician and a researcher is very valuable in my book. 80 EUR is ridiculously reasonable for someone with his experience, compared to the outrageous prices many others charge (and who often aren't clued-up on current research).

The impression I've got of him is that he tries his absolute best, doesn't judge, sympathizes with the struggle, realizes there's a huge difference between mild and severe tinnitus, and is cognizant of his own limitations. He's not going to try to sell you a cure he doesn't have.

From my perspective, for the chat alone, to speak with a man of his caliber is worth the 80 EUR. It's refreshing to see a guy diligently trying to figure out how to silence the beast.

When @Hazel attended the Tinnitus Research Initiative conference in Taipei in 2019, she recorded this with him for our Tinnitus Hub YouTube channel:



And, as it happens, @Hazel interviewed him for the Tinnitus Talk Podcast earlier this month. I'm looking forward to us releasing it soon after the Otonomy episode.

Psst! A shameless plug: If you join our Patreon program starting at $2/month, or become a recurring supporter here, you'll get the video versions of our Otonomy and Dr. De Ridder interviews - while others get the audio versions - as a thank you for supporting our work.

 

[GBB]

He could almost certainly charge 10 times as much - at 80 EUR he should be canonized.

 

[Lukee]

To make a comparison... I spoke to the office of a highly regarded inner ear specialist in the US. With the pandemic and all I asked if I could get an initial consult by Zoom because it's hard traveling to and from Canada right now. They got back to me a week later and said the doctor would do it but it's not common procedure as he likes to see people in the office for first visit (makes sense). His assistant asked me to send all relevant tests and medical records but I have not had any tests done beyond a standard hearing test so I'm kind of going into this blindly. I asked about the price. $1,000 USD. For a Zoom call. That will maybe last 15-20 minutes.

On the other end of the spectrum, if you are not familiar with him, look up Ron Davis. He is a researcher for ME/CFS and a world renowned professor of biochemistry and genetics. CFS has one of the lowest research budgets of any chronic illness and is only now getting some acknowledgment due to COVID-19.

The point here is Ron Davis has made enormous progress in the last couple years and his motivation is clear: cure CFS so he can get his son back. Yes, his son has severe CFS and Ron has dedicated his life to finding a cure, on a shoestring budget. We need people like this in tinnitus research. Funding is important (probably the most important) but the people that receive the funding need to know what to do with it and need to be motivated enough to make a difference.

 

[Chinmoku]

Excellent video by Prof. De Ridder. I agree with you, @Markku. Look at the nuanced view he presents on tinnitus, even in this brief video. He comes across as a world authority but there is no arrogance at all in his stance, he looks genuine, even the body language is totally genuine. 80 EUR to talk to him are nothing, if he were in the Anglo Saxon context, e.g. London or NY, he could easily charge $500-1000 for 20-30 minutes with his clinical experience and research experience. We need more Dirk De Ridders in this sad world.

 

[Matchbox]

I also love Dr. De Ridder.

He clearly states that just because a certain therapy isn't proven, it doesn't mean it won't help a sub-group, and that there's other things you can try where your patient may fall into the category of clinically significant improvement.