Hyperacusis, As I See It

[jordan chis]

I thought ignoring him would be the right move, but I cringed when I saw someone going to him as the expert. The dude is an expert on victim blaming and damaging peoples' ears.

To anyone who reads this: Never, ever, ever, ever push through hyperacusis pain for some greater good. The inner ear is super fragile, and you just might set yourself back for months or even permanently.

This I agree with, but there's a big difference between discomfort and pain.

 

[Zugzug]

This I agree with, but there's a big difference between discomfort and pain.

What I mean is figure out the difference between "uncomfortable, but doesn't cause a setback" and "makes the problem worse." Never do the latter as some form of ideological dedication to TRT principles.

 

[Zigs]

HI @Zigs

I don't quite understand what you mean. Are you wanting to buy a pink noise sound generator that fits on the back of the ear or in the ear canal to supply pink noise? Or are you wanting to buy a standalone sound machine?

Michael

@Michael Leigh a stand alone machine for now.

 

[Contrast]

ZugZag and Mr.CryBaby are setting a new meta. MPP's empire is being expanded.

On a side note, TRT is BS as it does not distinguish pain hyperacusis from loudness hyperacusis. It's creator (Jastreboff) doesn't seem to even to care. I suggest everyone avoid TRT and take @Zugzug and @MrCrybaby's warnings seriously.

 

[LindaS]

@Lane

Hi Lane

Not sure how to have a quote show up on a post so I cut and pasted your post below...

Re: I'm not sure if we're on the same page. My concern is with the wireless radiation (from any source). While you seem to be referring just to the sound, or volume of sound? There are threads on the forum where people developed tinnitus from all the Wifi gadgets in a new pickup truck. Another definitely narrowed his tinnitus down to a new smart meter installed on his home.

Others have made a connection to their wireless router. The literature on wireless radiation of all kinds invariably mentions reports of people developing tinnitus after being exposed to it. I'm fairly amazed more people on this forum don't give it greater consideration for their own unknown cause of tinnitus, or unexplained sudden spikes.


I wanted you to know that my husband has said this to me before and I thought he was nuts, but since your post I have done some research and there appears to be merit in this.

Thank you!

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Michael Leigh a stand alone machine for now.

@Zigs

I don't know of a standalone sound machine that plays Pink noise. My white noise generators that are BTE (Behind The Ear) type, can be set to play either white or pink noise. To be honest I don't see much difference between the two. Pink noise sounds slightly smoother but there's not much in it.

I believe Oasis make the best sound machines as they are specifically made for people with tinnitus. I have three models: S-650, S-850 and S-5000. They all play a variety of sounds including white noise but not Pink noise. I have written a post on sound machines that you might find helpful in the link below.

All the best
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/sound-machines-and-tinnitus.12072/

 

[Zigs]

@Zigs

I don't know of a standalone sound machine that plays Pink noise. My white noise generators that are BTE (Behind The Ear) type, can be set to play either white or pink noise. To be honest I don't see much difference between the two. Pink noise sounds slightly smoother but there's not much in it.

I believe Oasis make the best sound machines as they are specifically made for people with tinnitus. I have three models: S-650, S-850 and S-5000. They all play a variety of sounds including white noise but not Pink noise. I have written a post on sound machines that you might find helpful in the link below.

All the best
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/sound-machines-and-tinnitus.12072/

@Michael Leigh thank you I really appreciate your time. I think I had got confused and thought that pink noise sound enrichment should be used. I've ordered the ocean sound you recommended so will be using that.

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Michael Leigh thank you I really appreciate your time. I think I had got confused and thought that pink noise sound enrichment should be used. I've ordered the ocean sound you recommended so will be using that.

You are welcome @Zigs Please keep in mind that it takes time to get used to using sound enrichment especially at night. The idea is not to try and mask/cover-up the tinnitus. Set the sounds slightly below the tinnitus. Give yourself at least 6 to 8 weeks to get accustomed to using sound enrichment.

Michael.

 

[Jaysterk]

Does anyone experience the sensation that you can hear your own voice reverberate while you talk a bit loudly? Is this hyperacusis or etd or perhaps something else?

 

[Michael Leigh]

Does anyone experience the sensation that you can hear your own voice reverberate while you talk a bit loudly? Is this hyperacusis or etd or perhaps something else?

I experienced this when I had hyperacusis many years ago. It can be very annoying. My hyperacusis is completely cured. It is best to see an ENT doctor and Audiologist to try and determine exactly what is affecting you. Hyperacusis is almost always caused by exposure to loud noise and coupled with tinnitus.

Michael

 

[Jaysterk]

I experienced this when I had hyperacusis many years ago. It can be very annoying. My hyperacusis is completely cured. It is best to see an ENT doctor and Audiologist to try and determine exactly what is affecting you. Hyperacusis is almost always caused by exposure to loud noise and coupled with tinnitus.

Michael

How did you manage to get rid of your hyperacusis? The same ear that has this issue also is constantly getting "full" or "clogged". Yawning and stretching open my jaw clears it for a bit. Did you suffer from this too?

 

[Michael Leigh]

How did you manage to get rid of your hyperacusis? The same ear that has this issue also is constantly getting "full" or "clogged". Yawning and stretching open my jaw clears it for a bit. Did you suffer from this too?

@Jaysterk

I am the Author of this thread so please read the title post: Hyperacusis, As I see it. Read my other posts in this thread too. Some people believe hyperacusis is not treatable or curable but this is incorrect. In many instances hyperacusis improves by itself over time and can go completely away. When the hyperacusis becomes long-term if possible a person should seek professional help with an Audiologist. Sound therapy using white noise generators is on e of the best ways to treat and cure hyperacusis. Again, please read all my posts in this thread.

On your Avatar is reads: Cause of tinnitus Neomycin? My understanding this is an antibiotic and if this caused your tinnitus, then it wasn't noise induced and therefore you may not have Hyperacusis - as it almost always is caused by exposure to loud noise which causes tinnitus. You may indeed be sensitive to sound but I think you need to be properly examined and assessed to found out what is causing the symptoms you describe.

Best of luck
Michael

 

[n_li808]

Hi @Michael Leigh can you explain briefly what exactly hyperacusis is? I don't have sensitivity to noise (pain or discomfort) but my tinnitus does get more aggressive after noise exposure even if it's just outdoor noises. Is that my tinnitus? Or do I have hyperacusis?

 

[Michael Leigh]

Hi @Michael Leigh can you explain briefly what exactly hyperacusis is? I don't have sensitivity to noise (pain or discomfort) but my tinnitus does get more aggressive after noise exposure even if it's just outdoor noises. Is that my tinnitus? Or do I have hyperacusis?

HI @n_li808

Please google hyperacusis as there is plenty information about it such in the following link: https://www.webmd.com/brain/sound-sensitivity-hyperacusis#1

Hyperacusis is having an oversensitivity to sound. It comes in different levels of severity and no two people will experience it the same - in a similar way to no two people will have tinnitus the same. Some people think there is a difference between hyperacusis and hyperacusis with pain. Both symptoms are the same is just a person may have it more acute/severe. As I have mentioned in many of my posts on hyperacusis, this condition can improve by itself over time but in some cases, professional help will need to be sought otherwise the condition can become worse, resulting in additional problems that may manifest themselves as mentioned in my post: The complexities of tinnitus and hyperacusis in the link below.

Hyperacusis normally accompanies people that develop tinnitus from exposure to loud noise. From what you describe I believe you have hyperacusis perhaps not too severe which is a good thing. Hopefully, with time it will improve by following the recommendations in the links that I have sent you to my articles.

You are new to tinnitus and if not already you will soon become aware of a term used in some tinnitus forums known as: Reactive Tinnitus. I want to advise you that there is no such thing as Reactive Tinnitus. This terminology was made-up in tinnitus forums many years ago and has become common place. Please to not burden yourself with such terms as RT or pain hyperacusis as some people do, as it can lead a person to believe that their symptoms or what they are going through is something that warrants special attention and their tinnitus, hyperacusis or both are more severe than anyone else. I am not saying these people are not experiencing difficulty but as I've mentioned in many of my articles: Tinnitus can affect our mental and emotional wellbeing profoundly so one has to be careful. It can be all too easy to convince yourself that your symptoms are so severe no treatment will work or they won't improve by themselves naturally over time, and thus, your future is mapped out be one of doom and gloom.

Using terms such as " I have reactive tinnitus in addition to ordinary tinnitus" and " I have hyperacusis and pain hyperacusis" help to reinforce negative thinking.

Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-complexities-of-tinnitus-and-hyperacusis.25733/

 

[Tessie]

@Juan everyone is different. I wrote my post to try and help people and if they want to try it that is their choice. I advise you to try TRT and wear white noise generators as I did for 2 years. Wearing them 10hrs a day and using a sound machine at night. I hope that you can get the help.
I wish you well.
All the best
Michael

Hi Michael
When you say wear a white noise generator is this through a device using headphones? Also what's sound machine you bought?
Had a few bad days with H, so I've been trying slowly to desensitize but this afternoon my tinnitus spiked I think as a response to the days noises and my ears feel full again.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Hi Michael
When you say wear a white noise generator is this through a device using headphones? Also what's sound machine you bought?
Had a few bad days with H, so I've been trying slowly to desensitize but this afternoon my tinnitus spiked I think as a response to the days noises and my ears feel full again.

HI @Tessie

I don't recommend using any type of headphones to listen to audio even at low volume and especially if the tinnitus is Noise induced. There are two types of white noise generators - In-ear and behind the ear (BTE) BTE wngs look like hearing aids. In-ear wngs are smaller and fit in the entrance to the ear canal. Please click on the following like to see white noise generators: https://www.puretone.net/tinnitus/ scroll down the page and you will see both kinds of wngs and there's information given.

I use Oasis sound machine and have three models: S-5000, S-650 and S-850
https://www.soundoasis.com/product-category/sleep-sound-therapy-systems/

Michael

 

[Tessie]

HI @Tessie

I don't recommend using any type of headphones to listen to audio even at low volume and especially if the tinnitus is Noise induced. There are two types of white noise generators - In-ear and behind the ear (BTE) BTE wngs look like hearing aids. In-ear wngs are smaller and fit in the entrance to the ear canal. Please click on the following like to see white noise generators: https://www.puretone.net/tinnitus/ scroll down the page and you will see both kinds of wngs and there's information given.

I use Oasis sound machine and have three models: S-5000, S-650 and S-850
https://www.soundoasis.com/product-category/sleep-sound-therapy-systems/

Michael

Thank you Michael, does this mean I'd use the BTE model?
I'm in Australia so not sure how to get fitted remotely or if they ship here? I've sent an email.
You're articles have been very helpful to put things into perspective, I'm trying my best not to make like Alice & fall down the rabbit hole.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Thank you Michael, does this mean I'd use the BTE model?
I'm in Australia so not sure how to get fitted remotely or if they ship here? I've sent an email.
You're articles have been very helpful to put things into perspective, I'm trying my best not to make like Alice & fall down the rabbit hole.

HI @Tessie

You have only had tinnitus for 3 weeks and I advise you not to try any form of tinnitus treatment because it's far too soon. I recommend at this moment to leave your ears alone and do nothing. The only thing I recommend in the early stages of tinnitus with or without hyperacusis, is medication to help you relax so talk to your doctor. White Noise Generators are specialist instruments and should be used under the guidance of an Audiologist trained in Tinnitus and hyperacusis management. Please click on the links below and read my articles. They are specifically written for people with noise induced tinnitus.

All the best
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-to-tinnitus-what-to-do.12558/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-a-personal-view.18668/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperacusis-as-i-see-it.19174/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-habituation-process.20767/

 

[Tessie]

HI @Tessie

You have only had tinnitus for 3 weeks and I advise you not to try any form of tinnitus treatment because it's far too soon. I recommend at this moment to leave your ears alone and do nothing. The only thing I recommend in the early stages of tinnitus with or without hyperacusis, is medication to help you relax so talk to your doctor. White Noise Generators are specialist instruments and should be used under the guidance of an Audiologist trained in Tinnitus and hyperacusis management. Please click on the links below and read my articles. They are specifically written for people with noise induced tinnitus.

All the best
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-to-tinnitus-what-to-do.12558/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-a-personal-view.18668/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperacusis-as-i-see-it.19174/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-habituation-process.20767/

I'm going into week 5 now. What you've said is noted. Thanks again

 

[Michael Leigh]

I'm going into week 5 now. What you've said is noted. Thanks again

I know it's not easy @Tessie but it will get easier. Read my posts that's all you need to do for now.....
Michael

 

[weab00]

I think there can be some benefit listening to high-quality pink noise out of a high-quality speaker, but using WNGs directly in your ears is very likely to make hyperacusis worse, especially if it's pain hyperacusis. Professionals are really not necessary to follow a TRT protocol on your own, and if it gets worse then stop immediately.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I think there can be some benefit listening to high-quality pink noise out of a high-quality speaker, but using WNGs directly in your ears is very likely to make hyperacusis worse, especially if it's pain hyperacusis. Professionals are really not necessary to follow a TRT protocol on your own, and if it gets worse then stop immediately.

Respectfully, I realize your knowledge on tinnitus and how it affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing is limited. Counselling can be immensely helpful when incorporated into TRT or CBT to help someone with tinnitus. Ideally, the Therapist should also have the condition.

You are entitled to your opinion on the use of pink noise and the way to administer it, but your entire post is quite wrong.

Good day.
Michael

 

[weab00]

Respectfully, I realize your knowledge on tinnitus and how it affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing is limited. Counselling can be immensely helpful when incorporated into TRT or CBT to help someone with tinnitus. Ideally, the Therapist should also have the condition.

You are entitled to your opinion on the use of pink noise and the way to administer it, but your entire post is quite wrong.

Good day.
Michael

What makes you realize this? I happen to think most of your posts are quite wrong. You tend to resort to insults and ad hominem when someone disagrees with your rhetoric.

Good day,
Weab00

 

[Michael Leigh]

What makes you realize this? I happen to think most of your posts are quite wrong. You tend to resort to insults and ad hominem when someone disagrees with your rhetoric.

Good day,
Weab00

This is my thread and you are contaminating it with wrong information and very bad advice.

Michael

 

[weab00]

This is my thread and you are contaminating it with wrong information and very bad advice.

Michael

You do realize this is a public forum that anyone is allowed to comment on and where discourse is encouraged, right? Myself and many others I've talked to have worsened from white noise generators, so I encourage people to be skeptical and ask questions about the status quo rather than blindly accepting it as people like Michael may tell you to do.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Myself and many others I've talked to have worsened from white noise generators

I am sorry to know white noise generators made your tinnitus worse. There is usually one reason for this: You were not instructed on how to use them properly otherwise they can make tinnitus worse. They should be introduced to the ear and auditory system slowly. At first, worn for just 1 or 2 hrs then removed for the same duration. Then put them back on and worn for another 1 or 2hrs. Repeat this throughout the day and for one or two weeks. Slowly increase the wearing time as this allows the ears/auditory system to get used to the white noise. The white noise should always be set below the level of the tinnitus and not mask or cover it up.

If the white nose generators are first put on and worn for 6hrs or more as some Audiologists advise, this can make the tinnitus and hyperacusis worse. When they are worn in the manner I've suggested you'll find the WNGs do not make the tinnitus worse.

blindly accepting it as people like Michael may tell you to do

I have many years experience with tinnitus and have had TRT twice and still wear WNGs. I know how to use these devices correctly and have advised quite a few people on how to use them when they have difficulty wearing them. Once people follow my advice they usually don't have problems with WNGs.

Michael

 

[weab00]

I am sorry to know white noise generators made your tinnitus worse. There is usually one reason for this: You were not instructed on how to use them properly otherwise they can make tinnitus worse. They should be introduced to the ear and auditory system slowly. At first, worn for just 1 or 2 hrs then removed for the same duration. Then put them back on and worn for another 1 or 2hrs. Repeat this throughout the day and for one or two weeks. Slowly increase the wearing time as this allows the ears/auditory system to get used to the white noise. The white noise should always be set below the level of the tinnitus and not mask or cover it up.

If the white nose generators are first put on and worn for 6hrs or more as some Audiologists advise, this can make the tinnitus and hyperacusis worse. When they are worn in the manner I've suggested you'll find the WNGs do not make the tinnitus worse.

I have many years experience with tinnitus and have had TRT twice and still wear WNGs. I know how to use these devices correctly and have advised quite a few people on how to use them when they have difficulty wearing them. Once people follow my advice they usually don't have problems with WNGs.

Michael

I happened to get worse off of 10 minutes of very low volume WNGs--I have noxacusis. But I get it, TRT'ers will always tell you you somehow followed the protocol wrong if you happen to get worse. Funny that the 80% improvement figure doesn't count people that dropped out or got worse from TRT, and 80% of people tend to habituate within 2 years after onset anyway. Sounds like a huge price tag for something that tends to naturally occur anyway.

 

[Zugzug]

I happened to get worse off of 10 minutes of very low volume WNGs--I have noxacusis. But I get it, TRT'ers will always tell you you somehow followed the protocol wrong if you happen to get worse. Funny that the 80% improvement figure doesn't count people that dropped out or got worse from TRT, and 80% of people tend to habituate within 2 years after onset anyway. Sounds like a huge price tag for something that tends to naturally occur anyway.

Don't waste your time. How TRT works:

1) If you are better after 6 months with sound therapy, thank you TRT.
2) If you are not better, you need to give it more time.
3) If you gave it a lot of time, you aren't doing it right.
4) Disregard the people who got better without it.
5) Disregard the people who got worse from sound.

The sweet spot is mild cases where the person will improve with time, but needs a placebo.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I happened to get worse off of 10 minutes of very low volume WNGs--I have noxacusis.

One good thing about this forum one is able to peruse members previous posts quite easily. You got your tinnitus like many of us do, by listening to music through headphones at too high a volume. I also note that you've done a lot of research into tinnitus and hyperacusis. Whilst there's nothing wrong with this, it can instil negative thinking and if a person isn't careful, form the belief their symptoms are much worse than they really are. I believe you're experiencing the discomfort and distress tinnitus and hyperacusis can cause. However, reading your posts I don't see where you have been to any hospital or clinic for a thorough evaluation of your condition and yet you've come up with a diagnoses of having noxacusis, I'm impressed. This is the danger of reading up information online about tinnitus and hyperacusis.

From your posts history, I don't see where you've been seen by an Audiologist trained in tinnitus and hyperacusis management for an assessment of your symptoms, and been fitted with white noise generators, otherwise you would have mentioned it.

I will not be commenting further.
Good day and I wish you well.

Michael

 

[dan]

I happened to get worse off of 10 minutes of very low volume WNGs--I have noxacusis. But I get it, TRT'ers will always tell you you somehow followed the protocol wrong if you happen to get worse. Funny that the 80% improvement figure doesn't count people that dropped out or got worse from TRT, and 80% of people tend to habituate within 2 years after onset anyway. Sounds like a huge price tag for something that tends to naturally occur anyway.

It's already been proven by studies that TRT is no more effective than placebo.

I'm sorry about what happened to you... did it ever subside or improve any after the worsening?