Hyperacusis, As I See It

[Aaron91]

Please take note @Juan. I have finished corresponding with you on this topic and have more important things to do. I've already explained how hyperacusis can be treated and in many cases completely cured, for I am living proof. To finish up, please read the following but should you persist on this path, then I will not respond and may even place you on ignore.

Tinnitus is largely controlled by the brain, in the Limbic system to be precise as I have already alluded to. To prove my point, if one were to have their auditory nerve severed (cut) as some have suggested to make them completely deaf, they believe they would no longer hear the tinnitus. This is incorrect as they would still hear it. I visit various tinnitus groups and have corresponded with people that are deaf and still hear tinnitus. Therefore, it is generated in the brain not the ears. Once a person's fear is properly managed whether by self help or professional help such as TRT or CBT is sought, its perception is much reduced known as habituation and for some rarely heard.

Now this is the last I will be corresponding with you on this topic.
Goodbye and I wish you well.

Michael

That's quite the stretch, Michael. While tinnitus is a centralised issue, it remains the byproduct of a peripheral one - loss of auditory input. That is the point everyone makes to you on a regular basis, backed by legitimate science - not that you ever seem to connect the dots.

In any case, just because hyperacusis and tinnitus are related to the ears, that doesn't mean you can apply the pathology of one condition to the other. That's like saying colour blindness shares the same pathology as cataracts, and yet one is congenital while the other isn't. In short, your argument is fallacy.

Given the privileged position you have of having recovered from hyperacusis, if I were you, I would consider being a little more humble. Your recovery is not living proof, as you put it. In fact, it could be, and probably very much is, mere coincidence. To put it simply, your ears likely improved in spite of the fact that you continued to damage them further with white noise generators. You got lucky, period.

Ultimately, you have zero credibility in my eyes, because not only have I observed you consistently victim blame and shame people, which I find completely abhorrent, but I have also seen you preach on unrelated topics you have no authority on, and I'm not even talking about tinnitus or hyperacusis (for the avoidance of doubt, you are not an authority on those either). You say you want to help others, but the manner of your posts have narcissism written all over them. Indeed, one need look no further than the title of this thread to confirm this: Hyperacusis, As I See It.

I learned very quickly some time ago to not reply to you and I advise others on here the same, especially newcomers, but you seem to be heavily involved on this forum these days, to the extent that I believe your presence here has now become outright dangerous, if not lethal.

I don't believe in censorship, but if I had to pick one person to be banned from this forum, it would be you.

 

[Zugzug]

TRT cannot change or alter cochlear damage. That's why it does not work. In many cases hearing issues, including tinnitus and hyperacusis, are caused by noise exposure that made real damage to the cochlea. So this has nothing to do with mindset. If a patient, like I did, follows CBT and counselling and those TRT "protocols" and is optimistic about life and hearing issues, and these "therapies" (which I know define accurately as a snake oil scam) do not work is because they are a scam.

This is not a treatment, it's a scam.

Negative Nelly in the house. Turn that frown upside down and your cochlea will heal.

 

[Zugzug]

That's quite the stretch, Michael. While tinnitus is a centralised issue, it remains the byproduct of a peripheral one - loss of auditory input. That is the point everyone makes to you on a regular basis, backed by legitimate science - not that you ever seem to connect the dots.

In any case, just because hyperacusis and tinnitus are related to the ears, that doesn't mean you can apply the pathology of one condition to the other. That's like saying colour blindness shares the same pathology as cataracts, and yet one is congenital while the other isn't. In short, your argument is fallacy.

Given the privileged position you have of having recovered from hyperacusis, if I were you, I would consider being a little more humble. Your recovery is not living proof, as you put it. In fact, it could be, and probably very much is, mere coincidence. To put it simply, your ears likely improved in spite of the fact that you continued to damage them further with white noise generators. You got lucky, period.

Ultimately, you have zero credibility in my eyes, because not only have I observed you consistently victim blame and shame people, which I find completely abhorrent, but I have also seen you preach on unrelated topics you have no authority on, and I'm not even talking about tinnitus or hyperacusis (for the avoidance of doubt, you are not an authority on those either). You say you want to help others, but the manner of your posts have narcissism written all over them. Indeed, one need look no further than the title of this thread to confirm this: Hyperacusis, As I See It.

I learned very quickly some time ago to not reply to you and I advise others on here the same, especially newcomers, but you seem to be heavily involved on this forum these days, to the extent that I believe your presence here has now become outright dangerous, if not lethal.

I don't believe in censorship, but if I had to pick one person to be banned from this forum, it would be you.

I am becoming impatient with your insolence. I have had tinnitus and hyperacusis for 50 years. No one should listen to negative people like you and your minion followers. I have counselled many people over the years and all of them have positive feelings after their week long tinnitus improved, thanks to me. Do you think that's a coincidence?

Of course it isn't. If you are really serious about getting better, drop the negativity and read through all of my posts about hyperacusis... (ctrl + c, ctrl + v)

• long
• list
• of
• useless
• pseudoscience
• links

I have been nothing but respectful in our correspondence. If you push me any further, I will have to keep threatening to place you on ignore, while not actually doing it.

I wish you well,
Zugzug

 

[Michael Leigh]

That's interesting - could you provide some sources on tinnitus being generated by the limbic system?

You have been rude and discourteous towards me in many of my posts. I do not correspond with people that express themselves in this way towards me. I show manners and respect even when I disagree with someone unless, they are otherwise during correspondence with me. I once told you I'm not here to answer questions of the type you have asked, I advise. Please go to the people you look up to and hang onto every utterance that passes from their lips. Better still do your own research and you'll discover tinnitus is largely mental. Meaning, the problem starts within the ear and auditory system but it is the brain that hears it.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I am becoming impatient with your insolence. I have had tinnitus and hyperacusis for 50 years. No one should listen to negative people like you and your minion followers. I have counselled many people over the years and all of them have positive feelings after their week long tinnitus improved, thanks to me. Do you think that's a coincidence?

Of course it isn't. If you are really serious about getting better, drop the negativity and read through all of my posts about hyperacusis... (ctrl + c, ctrl + v)

• long
• list
• of
• useless
• pseudoscience
• links

I have been nothing but respectful in our correspondence. If you push me any further, I will have to keep threatening to place you on ignore, while not actually doing it.

I wish you well,
Zugzug

This is a well written post and full of humour, well done...

Michael

 

[serendipity1996]

You have been rude and discourteous towards me in many of my posts. I do not correspond with people that express themselves in this way towards me. I show manners and respect even when I disagree with someone unless, they are otherwise during correspondence with me. I once told you I'm not here to answer questions of the type you have asked, I advise. Please go to the people you look up to and hang onto every utterance that passes from their lips. Better still do your own research and you'll discover tinnitus is largely mental. Meaning, the problem starts within the ear and auditory system but it is the brain that hears it.

I simply asked you for sources to back up your arguments - how can that be construed as rude?

 

[Michael Leigh]

I simply asked you for sources to back up your arguments - how can that be construed as rude?

I do not want to correspond with you so please do not alert me. Goodbye.

 

[Aaron91]

 

[Bartoli]

I am sorry to hear that you were scammed @Juan I know it goes on. TRT has to be administered correctly and a person also has to try and help themselves, by reinforcing positivity.

Take care
Michael

That's the fishy part about it. When I take a painkiller, I don't have to think happy thoughts to make it work. It just works. And that's why, to me, the success of TRT can largely (fully?) be ascribed to the occurrence of habituation, fading of tinnitus or other events that occur in the same timeframe as the TRT-therapy.

 

[Aaron91]

I am sorry to hear that you were scammed @Juan I know it goes on. TRT has to be administered correctly and a person also has to try and help themselves, by reinforcing positivity.

Take care
Michael

"This cancer drug will save your life, but only if you are positive and believe it will" - said no doctor ever

 

[Juan]

Hi @Juan -- I haven't been watching this discussion closely, but your above statement mystifies me. I've run across numerous testimonials since getting tinnitus three years ago that TRT has worked for them. I'm not sure why you insist it's a scam if it seems pretty clear (to me at least) it works for some people.

I think the people who report benefit after following TRT are people who would just heal anyway by the passage of time. Some time and rest, progressive exposure to sound, getting back slowly into the daily grind, and those people would be just fine, they do not need to shell out money for TRT.

 

[Juan]

Please take note @Juan. I have finished corresponding with you on this topic and have more important things to do. I've already explained how hyperacusis can be treated and in many cases completely cured, for I am living proof. To finish up, please read the following but should you persist on this path, then I will not respond and may even place you on ignore.

Tinnitus is largely controlled by the brain, in the Limbic system to be precise as I have already alluded to. To prove my point, if one were to have their auditory nerve severed (cut) as some have suggested to make them completely deaf, they believe they would no longer hear the tinnitus. This is incorrect as they would still hear it. I visit various tinnitus groups and have corresponded with people that are deaf and still hear tinnitus. Therefore, it is generated in the brain not the ears. Once a person's fear is properly managed whether by self help or professional help such as TRT or CBT is sought, its perception is much reduced known as habituation and for some rarely heard.

Now this is the last I will be corresponding with you on this topic.
Goodbye and I wish you well.

Michael

Michael, this is another one of your typical copy / paste messages that you repeat over and over... you always say the same things, exactly the same way, because you have no clue about hearing issues or hyperacusis.

You are just here to spread the word and the world of TRT exclusively, to sell this scam, and that's why you keep insisting on the same thing over and over, even if half the forum has already told you that you are wrong. And even if there is people like me who have tried TRT and can tell you for a fact that it does not work (but it is very effective taking money out of your pocket, or your insurance company's pocket).

Best regards.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Michael, this is another one of your typical copy / paste messages that you repeat over and over... you always say the same things, exactly the same way, because you have no clue about hearing issues or hyperacusis.

You are just here to spread the word and the world of TRT exclusively, to sell this scam, and that's why you keep insisting on the same thing over and over, even if half the forum has already told you that you are wrong. And even if there is people like me who have tried TRT and can tell you for a fact that it does not work (but it is very effective taking money out of your pocket, or your insurance company's pocket).

Best regards.

Since you have been polite and respectful I have decided to reply to your post. I have discussed TRT at length, in this thread and explained I do not wish to continue with it further. However, for readers contemplating whether to try this treatment it must be administered correctly. For the record: I know TRT works although results depend on certain factors that I think are of utmost importance which are: Many people that say they've had TRT have had nothing of the sort. Not following the proper TRT protocol which entails regular counselling lasting a period of two years and wearing white noise generators for the same duration.

Some people have difficulty wearing white noise generators as they notice their tinnitus and hyperacusis increasing. I have explained the reasons on the TRT thread that WNGs should be introduced to the auditory system slowly. This treatment requires patience, due diligence and the willingness to stick with with it for the long haul. It is not a walk in the park for tinnitus is mostly mental as previously explained, the noise lives in the part of the brain known as the limbic system. Here, it becomes an integral part of a person's mental and emotional wellbeing. Depending on how severe it is and the person's makeup will determine how long it takes for the person to habituate. Hyperacusis, oversensitivity to sound, is addressed (treated ) with white noise generators to desensitize the auditory system. Hyperacusis also has an impact on a person's mental and emotional health, if it's not treated other complications can manifest themselves, that are mentioned in my thread: The Complexities of Tinnitus and Hyperacusis.

My posts will sound similar but I assure you each one is individually written and certainly not Copy/Paste. You may choose not to believe this but I assure that is the truth. I advise on Noise induced tinnitus and hyperacusis, so inevitably my posts will sound similar and I explained this on Contrast's MPP thread. I learnt to touch type many years ago, so if I were to copy and paste I'd be doing myself a disservice as I would lose my touch typing skills. In addition to this, I like writing and write on various forums not all pertaining to tinnitus. I am in the process of writing a lengthy project at the moment and hope I'm able to complete it.

I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Aaron91]

For the record: I know TRT works

Michael "the cochlea is in the middle ear" Leigh.

 

[Bartoli]

the noise lives in the part of the brain known as the limbic system.

The limbic system is what attaches meaning to the sound. But this is not the same as saying it originates from there. Not even scientists are sure at this point in time.

 

[weab00]

This is sad. A man who spends his days on a tinnitus forum preying on noobies to evangelize the TRT protocol. He writes hundreds of (poorly written) essays peddling unproven pseudoscience, substantiating its efficacy with personal anecdotes. If you ask for studies to back up his claims, you're disrespectful and negative. If you call him out, he "no longer wishes to correspond with you." If you say it didn't work for you, he moves the goalposts by saying you didn't get "real" TRT (which he constantly redefines). Question his wise words too much and you get on the block list, like I did.

How mature is Michael really when he thinks he's the biggest man in the room for having tinnitus for 25 years, and shuts down suicidal sufferers who disagree with his ideologies?

Michael is a sad, slippery shill, and even if he can't see this message, I hope he someday realizes how much harm he's doing.

 

[Juan]

Many people that say they've had TRT have had nothing of the sort. Not following the proper TRT protocol which entails regular counselling lasting a period of two years and wearing white noise generators for the same duration.

So you are saying that practitioners, ENTs, who are listed by Jastreboff as dispatchers of his so called "TRT protocol" do not know how to administer it. Brilliant.

I did go to a clinic endorsed by Jastreboff, very expensive by the way. Thanks God my insurance covered that fully. Of course it did not work, but at the time I was very new in this horrible world of hyperacusis.

I am just warning other people, and particularly those who have to shell out that hard earned money from their own pockets, not to go for TRT, since it will not solve anything.

 

[Zugzug]

This is sad. A man who spends his days on a tinnitus forum preying on noobies to evangelize the TRT protocol. He writes hundreds of (poorly written) essays peddling unproven pseudoscience, substantiating its efficacy with personal anecdotes. If you ask for studies to back up his claims, you're disrespectful and negative. If you call him out, he "no longer wishes to correspond with you." If you say it didn't work for you, he moves the goalposts by saying you didn't get "real" TRT (which he constantly redefines). Question his wise words too much and you get on the block list, like I did.

How mature is Michael really when he thinks he's the biggest man in the room for having tinnitus for 25 years, and shuts down suicidal sufferers who disagree with his ideologies?

Michael is a sad, slippery shill, and even if he can't see this message, I hope he someday realizes how much harm he's doing.

I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't actually have you on ignore. FYI.

 

[Michael Leigh]

So you are saying that practitioners, ENTs, who are listed by Jastreboff as dispatchers of his so called "TRT protocol" do not know how to administer it. Brilliant.

You have mentioned this before and I replied by saying your situation was unfortunate. I have explained what TRT entails and how it should be administered. What is required of the patient if they choose to undergo this treatment. Many people have had success with TRT and CBT as Lane mentioned to you. You quickly dismissed this by saying they would have improved anyway without the treatment. Some people do not like hearing certain truths.

Goodbye and I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Aaron91]

As recently as yesterday, Michael Leigh was encouraging a previously inactive member of six years with TTTS-like symptoms to get an MRI to "check their auditory system".

I've changed my mind. He needs to be banned, preferably yesterday.

 

[Lane]

The following YouTube videos (linked below) were done by a young man who describes his torturous journey from initial onset of tinnitus/hyperacusis to what he considers an almost complete recovery . A recovery he attributes--in part--to Tinnitus Retraining Therapy, though he mentions other important factors as well.

I found him to be an impressive young man, exceedingly thoughtful, as well as respectful to anybody watching his videos. He doesn't insist that what worked for him will work for others, and also doesn't insist that listeners share his views. His primary focus seems to be on letting others know what worked for him, with the hope it might be helpful for others. The favorable comments after the videos are some of the most complimentary I've seen on YouTube.

The link to Part 1 starts at a point where he first mentions TRT (9-minute mark). Going back to the beginning will give you a background of how he developed his tinnitus/hyperacusis to begin with. The second link starts at the beginning of Part 2. For anybody who doesn't want to take the time to watch the full 44 minutes, the third link is at the point where he begins an 8-minute summation of all his experiences (16-minute mark of 2nd video).

My Hyperacusis Success Story Part 1 -- 20 minutes

My Hyperacusis Success Story Part 2 -- 24 minutes

Summation

 

[Michael Leigh]

HI @Lane,

I watched the video of the young man in question a few years ago and it's quite informative and hope anyone seeking help with their tinnitus and want to try TRT or CBT find it helpful. I have never claimed TRT works for everyone but, there is a school of thought with some people that these treatments will not help in the slightest. They are entitled to their opinion. People have come to this forum saying they are having success with TRT or CBT and been shot down in flames by certain forum members. As a result the person under attack has left vowing never to return here.

I have had TRT twice and had success with it on both occasions. Anyone asking for advice about this treatment, noise induced tinnitus or hyperacusis I am going to try to help and will not be silenced by forum bullies because I don't see things their way. I do not visit this forum for a confrontation with anyone and this is the reason certain people have been placed on ignore, and will continue to do so with all troublemakers.

Take care
Michael

 

[Juan]

You have mentioned this before and I replied by saying your situation was unfortunate. I have explained what TRT entails and how it should be administered. What is required of the patient if they choose to undergo this treatment. Many people have had success with TRT and CBT as Lane mentioned to you. You quickly dismissed this by saying they would have improved anyway without the treatment. Some people do not like hearing certain truths.

Goodbye and I wish you well.
Michael

So you are basically saying that practitioners endorsed by Jastreboff do not know how to correctly administer TRT. Because I went to one of those...

 

[Juan]

The following YouTube videos (linked below) were done by a young man who describes his torturous journey from initial onset of tinnitus/hyperacusis to what he considers an almost complete recovery . A recovery he attributes--in part--to Tinnitus Retraining Therapy, though he mentions other important factors as well.

I found him to be an impressive young man, exceedingly thoughtful, as well as respectful to anybody watching his videos. He doesn't insist that what worked for him will work for others, and also doesn't insist that listeners share his views. His primary focus seems to be on letting others know what worked for him, with the hope it might be helpful for others. The favorable comments after the videos are some of the most complimentary I've seen on YouTube.

The link to Part 1 starts at a point where he first mentions TRT (9-minute mark). Going back to the beginning will give you a background of how he developed his tinnitus/hyperacusis to begin with. The second link starts at the beginning of Part 2. For anybody who doesn't want to take the time to watch the full 44 minutes, the third link is at the point where he begins an 8-minute summation of all his experiences (16-minute mark of 2nd video).

My Hyperacusis Success Story Part 1 -- 20 minutes

My Hyperacusis Success Story Part 2 -- 24 minutes

Summation

I have had severe hyperacusis and know what it entails. I have watched those videos and by the way that guy is telling his story, some details do not seem to agree with true hyperacusis. So I don't really know what he went through, but to me it does not sound like hyperacusis.

There is another video on YouTube (sorry, I don't use it that much so the link is not at hand... but some people on the forum will have it) and the guy is talking with earmuffs on etc, and explaining. And that looks a lot more like hyperacusis. And that guy has not recovered.

 

[Michael Leigh]

So you are basically saying that practitioners endorsed by Jastreboff do not know how to correctly administer TRT. Because I went to one of those...

I am just replying to say I am finished with this topic. If you have anything new to add I may continue corresponding with you. Goodbye.

 

[Zugzug]

The following YouTube videos (linked below) were done by a young man who describes his torturous journey from initial onset of tinnitus/hyperacusis to what he considers an almost complete recovery . A recovery he attributes--in part--to Tinnitus Retraining Therapy, though he mentions other important factors as well.

I found him to be an impressive young man, exceedingly thoughtful, as well as respectful to anybody watching his videos. He doesn't insist that what worked for him will work for others, and also doesn't insist that listeners share his views. His primary focus seems to be on letting others know what worked for him, with the hope it might be helpful for others. The favorable comments after the videos are some of the most complimentary I've seen on YouTube.

The link to Part 1 starts at a point where he first mentions TRT (9-minute mark). Going back to the beginning will give you a background of how he developed his tinnitus/hyperacusis to begin with. The second link starts at the beginning of Part 2. For anybody who doesn't want to take the time to watch the full 44 minutes, the third link is at the point where he begins an 8-minute summation of all his experiences (16-minute mark of 2nd video).

My Hyperacusis Success Story Part 1 -- 20 minutes

My Hyperacusis Success Story Part 2 -- 24 minutes

Summation

I do think that guy had hyperacusis and made a recovery. I just think he does a lot of reversing of cause and effect. It's his body and his story so he's entitled to share, but some of the advice is incorrect.

For example, he talks about how he basically logged off the forums, listened to an audiologist who told him that sounds over 85 dB can't harm him. He also talks about frequently making two steps forward and one step backward.

In my opinion, he got lucky. There's no value in the "one step back" and he was probably going backwards because he was listening to bad, misguided, and unscientific advice about "noises under 85 dB can't harm you." Everyone with hyperacusis knows this isn't true. In fact, the 85 number has no scientific connection to hyperacusis. When someone tells you that, they are really telling you that it will go away if you don't let it consume you. This is dangerous and a form of victim-blaming. In reality, it stops consuming you because it goes away.

Many people (including myself) have been burned by that advice. I think he got better with the passage of time, which he does acknowledge.

 

[serendipity1996]

I do think that guy had hyperacusis and made a recovery. I just think he does a lot of reversing of cause and effect. It's his body and his story so he's entitled to share, but some of the advice is incorrect.

For example, he talks about how he basically logged off the forums, listened to an audiologist who told him that sounds over 85 dB can't harm him. He also talks about frequently making two steps forward and one step backward.

In my opinion, he got lucky. There's no value in the "one step back" and he was probably going backwards because he was listening to bad, misguided, and unscientific advice about "noises under 85 dB can't harm you." Everyone with hyperacusis knows this isn't true. In fact, the 85 number has no scientific connection to hyperacusis. When someone tells you that, they are really telling you that it will go away if you don't let it consume you. This is dangerous and a form of victim-blaming. In reality, it stops consuming you because it goes away.

Many people (including myself) have been burned by that advice. I think he got better with the passage of time, which he does acknowledge.

If you check out some of the patient stories on the Hyperacusis Research website, many of the severe cases experienced repeated worsenings as a result of outdated and harmful medical advice, e.g. 'sounds under 85 dB can't hurt you'. It is truly horrific.

 

[Orions Pain]

This guy was 80% better when he was 5 weeks in...

8 weeks in, he was going to movie theaters and restaurants without ear plugs with no issues and at this point (8 weeks in) when he was 80% better and already back to doing normal activities he was considering starting TRT.

I am happy that this guy recovered but it's clear he had a quick, natural recovery that had very little to do with TRT. He says it himself on Facebook. I am posting this not to be a Negative Nancy but this video gets circulated around a lot in the hyperacusis community and I see that as being problematic.







Here he claims he "suffered" for 10 months and healed through TRT, CBT and a "positive mindset". His Facebook posts paint a different picture.

 

[Zugzug]

This guy was 80% better when he was 5 weeks in...

8 weeks in, he was going to movie theaters and restaurants without ear plugs with no issues and at this point (8 weeks in) when he was 80% better and already back to doing normal activities he was considering starting TRT.

I am happy that this guy recovered but it's clear he had a quick, natural recovery that had very little to do with TRT. He says it himself on Facebook. I am posting this not to be a Negative Nancy but this video gets circulated around a lot in the hyperacusis community and I see that as being problematic.

View attachment 43403

View attachment 43404

View attachment 43405

Here he claims he "suffered" for 10 months and healed through TRT, CBT and a "positive mindset". His Facebook posts paint a different picture.

View attachment 43406

I think it's a shame how the medical world treats this condition. I feel like because of the TRT dogma, all of these success stories carry more weight to be inspiring and contain correct advice. I sometimes think about what my success story might look like and I picture it getting ripped to shreds. He's just a 20 year old dude who suffered from hyperacusis, which is horrible.

Obviously, making an 80% recovery after 8 weeks is a sign of it being mild, but even mild hyperacusis is horrific. I remember when my LDLs were in that 80-90 dB range. My life was still ruined and I was still freaking out.

It's unfortunate that TRT gets the credit here. He's a scared young person who was probably traumatized and needed something to believe in.

 

[Orions Pain]

I think it's a shame how the medical world treats this condition. I feel like because of the TRT dogma, all of these success stories carry more weight to be inspiring and contain correct advice. I sometimes think about what my success story might look like and I picture it getting ripped to shreds. He's just a 20 year old dude who suffered from hyperacusis, which is horrible.

Obviously, making an 80% recovery after 8 weeks is a sign of it being mild, but even mild hyperacusis is horrific. I remember when my LDLs were in that 80-90 dB range. My life was still ruined and I was still freaking out.

It's unfortunate that TRT gets the credit here. He's a scared young person who was probably traumatized and needed something to believe in.

80% after 5 weeks.

And agreed. I think mild case success stories are important too because plenty of people have a mild version of this so it's good to have some positivity but the problem is that doctors/specialists/family members see these stories and use it as a blanket sort of treatment and say well this person recovered with TRT why don't you try it, and some of us are far from mild and sometimes TRT hurts people. There is a place for everyone's story but we (doctors) need to recognize that this condition varies greatly for each sufferer