I’m at a Rave

[OnceUponaTime]

Oh boy. Not a good idea.

 

[Jcb]

Wow..... I'm actually a loss for words??

I truly hope this doesn't affect your T my friend, loud noises are no friend to the beast known as Tinnitus... nope

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Guys. Everyone needs to chill.

Ya know how many touring musicians have some level of tinnitus?

MOST OF THEM.

I go to concerts all the freaking time and never get spikes from them. Dont stand by speakers. take breaks, wear earplugs properly and you can enjoy life.

If every exposure made it that much worse none of the pros would be able to communicate at all.

 

[Bill Bauer]

If every exposure made it that much worse none of the pros would be able to communicate at all.

I didn't read all the above comments, but did peruse a fair amount of it, and ran across many good points on both sides of the argument. What strikes me is there seems to be an underlying assumption (of course I may be wrong on this) that all brains and neurological systems are created equal. The way I see it, that's simply not the case, so everybody's way of dealing with tinnitus and/or hyperacusis is going to have to be highly individualized.

I read a book many years ago called "Adrenal Syndrome". A lot of the book touched on the residual resiliency of people's adrenal glands as they respond to life's stresses. Very low resiliency often resulted in months/years of chronic debilitating exhaustion following a stressful event(s) in their lives. Very high resiliency indicated essentially the opposite. The author broke this down into some rough numbers:

25% of people have low resiliency, meaning normal life stressors will often send them into some degree of a tailspin.
25% of people have high resiliency, meaning that no matter how severe a stressor comes into their lives, they will be able to cope without becoming debilitated to any degree.
50% of people fall somewhere inbetween.

I believe there are some kind of corresponding numbers for a person's brain and neurological resiliency as well, which can greatly affect the ability to cope with tinnitus. (I believe adrenal resiliency also plays a major role in our ability to cope). -- Based on these assumptions, it's pretty easy for me to conclude that what may be overprotection for one person will be underprotection for another, and vice versa.

I think the main point to understand for someone new to tinnitus is that their path forward is going to be a lot of "testing the waters". Generally, IMHO, it's going to take a few weeks or months to get important insights that will help us achieve a healthy balance. In all likelihood, most people are going to learn from experience when their over-protecting or under-protecting.

I've come to believe however, that in those early months, if one is going to err in either direction, it should be toward overprotection. It just seems to me the consequences of underprotection (which could result in permanent injury) in those early times are much more dire than the consequences of overprotection--which as I understand, generally results in temporary setbacks.

Doing a number of things to better support the brain and neurological system and the body's stress response (adrenal glands) is quite high on my list of recommendations I would make to anybody with tinnitus. Doing so might even prevent phonophobia or OCD, etc., as we go through our learning curves -- Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Guys. Everyone needs to chill.

Ya know how many touring musicians have some level of tinnitus?

MOST OF THEM.

That's like using "most prostitutes have AIDS" as an argument that it's ok to not use condoms.

 

[Drone Draper]

I actually heard this same argument from a guy on a T group on facebook who sings in bands.

I'd say it'd be bad enough to have T as a famous musician, but if you're not even famous, what is the point? Risking a lifetime of worse T so a bunch of strangers can enjoy music from... somebody?

 

[Drone Draper]

"Great gig man, really enjoyed your set opening for Uncle Joe's Dirtnap!"

"..... WHAT?"

 

[Contrast]

he's not coming back, the thought of hearing loss regeneration never crossed his mind nor the likelyhood that noxacusis will come back and tinnitus will get worse.

oh well.

 

[Gman]

@Djstarkiss Many of the top DJs have a catastrophic level of tinnitus and hearing loss. It can get much much worse. For example, I've read that Sven Vath is deaf in one ear and almost in the other and probably has tinnitus blasting away. It's like they all have a death wish, still not using in ear monitors even though they've been around for a long time and their ears are already destroyed. What a bunch of idiots.

 

[Contrast]

@Djstarkiss Many of the top DJs have a catastrophic level of tinnitus and hearing loss. It can get much much worse. For example, I've read that Sven Vath is deaf in one ear and almost in the other and probably has tinnitus blasting away. It's like they all have a death wish, still not using in ear monitors even though they've been around for a long time and their ears are already destroyed. What a bunch of idiots.

This is because people these fellas are on strong drugs which alter the mind to not give a fuck, usually the hendonistic wreckless abusive habits and lifestyle ends after sufficient injury but some of the most hardcore druggies are just injecting themselves with basically dopamine syringes to keep going.

Music probably sounds like broken garbage but their too high to realize it.

 

[Shelly75]

Wow. This group has reached another level of venom and nastiness. I don't blame him for bailing out.

 

[Gman]

Wow. This group has reached another level of venom and nastiness. I don't blame him for bailing out.

Maybe but sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

 

[incelitus]

Music probably sounds like broken garbage but their too high to realize it.

Implying these people don't already only listen to broken bass saturated garbage.

 

[Phendran]

Wow. This group has reached another level of venom and nastiness. I don't blame him for bailing out.

Being in our fleet for a long time makes one tired and bitter about the repeated assumptions made about everyone's equality in suffering and general experience. The idea that everyone is capable of, or has the opportunity to succeed with moving on(assuming habituation) where one individual has succeeded through luck, wealth, or sheer force of will, disregards the fact(s) of our diversity.

In the end, the best way to be rid of all this, I think, is to cure everyone.

 

[AZeurotuner]

Being in our fleet for a long time makes one tired and bitter about the repeated assumptions made about everyone's equality in suffering and general experience. The idea that everyone is capable of, or has the opportunity to succeed with moving on(assuming habituation) where one individual has succeeded through luck, wealth, or sheer force of will, disregards the fact(s) of our diversity.

In the end, the best way to be rid of all this, I think, is to cure everyone.

I think there's something to be said about a group of people who are feeling down feeding off each other though. I've talked to a lot of older folks with T, some of which say it is LOUD and have hearing damage so severe they can barely hear even with their aids in. They tell me that it annoys them sometimes, but that most of the time they don't think about it. Nobody I've talked has been on a forum with other T sufferers.

It's akin to confirmation bias. You hear a bunch of others talking of how they can't cope, are considering suicide, and so forth and your thoughts on Tinnitus being hopeless are just further reinforced. And if you did have hope before, reading all the horror stories and such can start to erode it.

At one point I felt hopeless myself, I had a horrible incident that greatly increased the volume of my tinnitus, brought about many more tones, and pain in my ears. I discovered Tinnitus talk and read posts from other members that made me feel even worse. I became massively worried about my tinnitus getting worse, telling my family that I "wouldn't be able to live" if it did. I started to wear hearing protection everywhere and became so depressed I stated drinking everyday just to cope.

I would read posts by members such as @Ed209 and think to myself, "there's no way I could do that, either he's just wired differently, crazy, or his Tinnitus isn't that bad". I thought it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to get better, to see my friends again, to start dating again, to even be able to go to the store without wearing heavy duty ear muffs.

But I thought that I HAD to try something, because sitting around slowly drinking my to death wasn't doing me any favors. Although skeptical, I began to make steps to address my sensitively to noise, some setbacks happened, but I put my faith in members that had assured me it would get better. It saved my life.

I know I can be a bit abrasive at times, but I mean well. It saddens me to hear people say things like they'll off themselves if mute button fails. I don't want that for anyone on this forum, even my "enemies", mindstates can change, but suicide is permanent.

I just want people to know that things have the potential to get better if they can shake the mentality that tinnitus is the worst thing in the world. Some will call that "diminishing their suffering" but my answer to that is, "how do you expect to get better if you believe you have the most severe, devastating, debilitating condition in the world?".

You have to change the way you think, the way you view tinnitus, or it will swallow you up. Sure, sometimes you'll have bad days, but you'll have good ones too. Days that will remind you why you put up with all of life's trials and tribulations in the first place.

Best regards,
Ross

 

[Autumnly]

You have to change the way you think, the way you view tinnitus, or it will swallow you up. Sure, sometimes you'll have bad days, but you'll have good ones too. Days that will remind you why you put up with all of life's trials and tribulations in the first place.

You don't believe it can be debilitating, we get it. There's a difference between telling someone that a concert might permanently worsen their tinnitus and you going around saying tinnitus can't be debilitating and that you can overcome it if you just try hard enough. Not everyone can live a normal life with this condition, it's a spectrum just like chronic pain.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I don't blame him for bailing out.

I suspect he is having a spike and is too ashamed to tell us about it. If I am right, he has correctly anticipated that eventually people will ask him about the state of his T, and so he found a way to not have to answer this question and lose his face.

If this were a forum for people with severe peanut allergies, and a person were to write that he is currently enjoying a meal of peanuts and people were to express what they think about the madness of it all, would you also make a post about venom and nastiness?!

 

[AZeurotuner]

You don't believe it can be debilitating, we get it. There's a difference between telling someone that a concert might permanently worsen their tinnitus and you going around saying tinnitus can't be debilitating and that you can overcome it if you just try hard enough. Not everyone can live a normal life with this condition, it's a spectrum just like chronic pain.

Hyperacusis and tinnitus can absolutely be debilitating. At one point I wouldn't leave my house for weeks at a time. H can absolutely get better if you make steps to address it. It seems as if pretty much everyone who says T is impossible to cope with has untreated hyperacusis. Have you made any steps towards treating yours? And I don't ask that in a rude manner, serious question.

 

[Autumnly]

H can absolutely get better if you make steps to address it.

Wouldn't say that as a fact, there are multiple stories of people who've had severe hyperacusis for years and who have tried to desensitize their ears. However, even within the hyperacusis "community", there are people who believe we don't need treatments for it because you just haven't found the right white noise for yourself yet if you haven't gotten better.

It seems as if pretty much everyone who says T is impossible to cope with has untreated hyperacusis.

Again, this boils down to loudness doesn't matter and tinnitus in itself can't be debilitating.

Have you made any steps towards treating yours? And I don't ask that in a rude manner, serious question.

I have, but all the CBT in the world doesn't allow me to even live a semi-normal life if I continue to develop 1-2 new tones every year.

 

[AZeurotuner]

Wouldn't say that as a fact, there are multiple stories of people who've had severe hyperacusis for years and who have tried to desensitize their ears. However, even within the hyperacusis "community", there are people who believe we don't need treatments for it because you just haven't found the right white noise for yourself yet if you haven't gotten better.

Again, this boils down to loudness doesn't matter and tinnitus in itself can't be debilitating.

I have, but all the CBT in the world doesn't allow me to even live a semi-normal life if I continue to develop 1-2 new tones every year.

How long did you do CBT? And I never said loudness doesn't matter. I just think that the "spikes" (as well as the fear of whether or not they'll be permanent) and pain caused by H is a big factor in overall debilitation.

 

[Autumnly]

How long did you do CBT?

Months of weekly sessions, on and off over the years. I'm also currently seeing a therapist and have been for a few months, 60-90 minutes every week. Plus acupuncture, Chinese medicine, every type of yoga there is, qi gong, meditation, you name it. But I don't want to derail the thread, feel free to PM me.

 

[AZeurotuner]

Months of weekly sessions, on and off over the years. I'm also currently seeing a therapist and have been for a few months, 60-90 minutes every week. Plus acupuncture, Chinese medicine, every type of yoga there is, qi gong, meditation, you name it. But I don't want to derail the thread, feel free to PM me.

It's funny that you talk about diminishing suffering and post things like this. I just saw this for the first time when I went to send you a PM.

"@AZeurotuner Dude, learn some compassion. I had a migraine once and it really wasn't that bad and I know I was lucky."

First off, migraines very in severity, but even a low scale one is quite painful. You likely just had a really bad headache. You are however, a hypocrite. And at this point I believe you'll say anything to "win" your battle with me. You likely did a few sessions before jumping to the conclusion that's its hopeless.

 

[Autumnly]

"@AZeurotuner Dude, learn some compassion. I had a migraine once and it really wasn't that bad and I know I was lucky."

First off, migraines very in severity, but even a low scale one is quite painful. You likely just had a really bad headache. You are however, a hypocrite. And at this point I believe you'll say anything to "win" your battle with me.

That's exactly what I meant, migraines are different for different people same as tinnitus and both conditions can vary in intensity. I know I was lucky my migraine wasn't that bad - I mean, pain wise, it left me with visual snow and constant pressure and pain behind and around one eye. And yes, it was a migraine with a visual aura but I suffer from chronic pain, so perhaps that's why the migraine wasn't as bad for me. I also commented under that post:

"Migraines can be different for different people, same as tinnitus. If you don't think tinnitus can be debilitating, just stop mocking people who are suffering. "

You likely did a few sessions before jumping to the conclusion that's its hopeless.

No, that's not true. I had months of CBT on and off and I'm currently seeing someone again. I'm not paying roughly 300 euros every month just for fun. I have had tinnitus since 2013 and have developed several new, permanent tones over the years. I've also never said I'm hopeless or that tinnitus is the worst condition in the world but that with the way my tinnitus is right now, I'm unable to work or live a normal life.

Edit: I'm also not trying to convince anyone that their situation is hopeless but we can't continue to only talk about the nice side of tinnitus.

 

[AZeurotuner]

That's exactly what I meant. I know I was lucky my migraine wasn't that bad - I mean, pain wise, it left me with visual snow. And yes, it was a migraine with a visual aura but I suffer from chronic pain, so perhaps that's why the migraine wasn't as bad for me. I also commented under that post:

"Migraines can be different for different people, same as tinnitus. If you don't think tinnitus can be debilitating, just stop mocking people who are suffering. "


How polite of you to just assume I didn't actually try to get better than to accept that CBT doesn't help everyone.
And no, I had months of CBT on and off. I have had tinnitus since 2013 and have developed several new, permanent tones over the years. I've also never said I'm hopeless or that tinnitus is the worst condition in the world but that with the way my tinnitus is right now, I'm unable to work or live a normal life.

I never mocked anyone. I have been in a terrible place myself, a very dark one filled with nothing but hopelessness and despair.

If I misread that message I apologize. It looked as if you had some sort of personal vendetta against me and I thought you might say anything just to oppose me.

Regarding your therapy, more consistency might be helpful. Or it could be that you're just not with the right therapist. Maybe chronic pain is factoring in. I don't know you personally so it's hard to say for sure.

If I can help just one person resist going down that path I was it's worth all the crap I get from people on here. You have to remember, I'm not talking directly to you. You might have some things going on that are more complicated than most. But do I think the vast majority of those that are in the "hopeless" category can get better? Yes, I definitely do.

 

[ArtVandalay]

I have lingered here awhile and clearly see a pattern when someone posts a success story, the same crew rain down a sea of shit on the OP for, I dont know, being happy, moving on with their lives.

Clearly the OP is aware of the risks and is willing to take them. A very simple, yeah for resuming your life, ears be damned should suffice. Surprisingly there are people that can get on with their lives despite the very best efforts of some here to deter that.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Clearly the OP is aware of the risks and is willing to take them. A very simple, yeah for resuming your life, ears be damned should suffice.

I really hope that you will follow OP's example and resume your life - ears be damned. Instead of discouraging you, I am Begging you to Make My Day and do it.

Is this the kind of a response you would prefer seeing around here?

 

[ArtVandalay]

I really hope that you will follow OP's example and resume your life - ears be damned. Instead of discouraging you, I am Begging you to Make My Day and do it.

Is this the kind of a response you would prefer seeing around here?

No need to beg Billy, I did resume my life ears be damned. I go to the grocery store (your fav) without earmuffs, omg!! I even go to movies and bars too!! Such a risk taker I am, I tell ya. And you know what I'm doing great! You yourself said you dont like making compromises ie. Dealing with humans - and you project your thoughts on others by making them fearful of everyday noises. No a rave is not an everyday noise but the OP is aware of the risks and will be using hearing protection. He is good with that and you should be too.

 

[Bill Bauer]

And you know what I'm doing great!

I am glad you're having fun!

 

[Bill Bauer]

By the way, in the first clip, the people filming are telling him not to do it. In the second clip, they are encouraging him to go ahead with his plan. It is amazing that there are people out there who think that the latter approach is healthier than the former approach...

 

[linearb]

OP describes the experience of 95% of people I know with tinnitus, with the caveat that the activity in question isn't always music. Of course, no one else I've ever met in the real world has made an account on this site.

With raves I'd be more concerned about poor quality music mixed badly and sketchy designer drugs and wookies smoking DMT in the toilets and all that