I Hate TRT (Tinnitus Retraining Therapy)

[threefirefour]

It's obvious you just come here to rattle the board and stir things up. People like myself and Michael, Glynis,Billie have a vast amount of knowledge on this matter and you disrespect those that been at this MUCH longer than you have. If you do not seek help and want to be helped find a new board.

No it's pretty obvious that's not the case. I have not disrespected you or Glynis in a long time (Glynis ever), Michael attacks me whenever possible, so I punch back. I disrespect those who try to attack me.

 

[Chris Holland]

RT is not cheap at all. I had very bad hyperacusis for 4+ years in my early years with tinnitus. It was the best money I ever spent. TRT takes time as well, you have to be disciplined for it to work....

I believe it's very helpful, just meant that the costs are too high in regards to that a lot of people that can benefit can't afford it, unfortunately ...

 

[fishbone]

I believe it's very helpful, just meant that the costs are too high in regards to that a lot of people that can benefit can't afford it, unfortunately ...

Sure, it's very expensive or it can be. It changes the dynamics of someone's life though. In the early days I use to have a low hiss/tone and harsh hyperacusis. Now I have intrusive loud and no hyperacusis. I rather have what I have right now, then to go back to early days with hyperacusis....

 

[threefirefour]

No it's pretty obvious that's not the case. I have not disrespected you or Glynis in a long time (Glynis ever), Michael attacks me whenever possible, so I punch back. I disrespect those who try to attack me.
View attachment 14433

Looking back this comic would have made more sense with Bobbie7 because she's historically worse and actually female.

 

[Chris Holland]

No it's pretty obvious that's not the case. I have not disrespected you or Glynis in a long time (Glynis ever), Michael attacks me whenever possible, so I punch back. I disrespect those who try to attack me.

LOL at that meme

Come on man, people are just trying to help you, if you choose to be this negative (and it is a choice) you are just hurting yourself. Habituation is not exactly my idea of wonderland as I would still have tinnitus but if it means my tinnitus does not bother me anymore and in the best case is not even in my awareness anymore I'll take it.

This thread is inspiring to me:
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/my-positive-story-and-insights-to-habituation.21794/

I really do hope you will be able to regain some faith.

 

[threefirefour]

LOL at that meme

Come on man, people are just trying to help you, if you choose to be this negative (and it is a choice) you are just hurting yourself. Habituation is not exactly my idea of wonderland as I would still have tinnitus but if it means my tinnitus does not bother me anymore and in the best case is not even in my awareness anymore I'll take it.

This thread is inspiring to me:
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/my-positive-story-and-insights-to-habituation.21794/

I really do hope you will be able to regain some faith.

As I said, I get you're new but I've heard absolutely everything you're saying at east dozens of times before. I just don't care. I'm looking for a reduction in volume and nothing else. My main goal is to fix my TMJ and neck, and advice with that is the main reason I visit this site.

 

[Chris Holland]

As I said, I get you're new but I've heard absolutely everything you're saying at east dozens of times before. I just don't care. I'm looking for a reduction in volume and nothing else. My main goal is to fix my TMJ and neck, and advice with that is the main reason I visit this site.

Being new is irrelevant to the subject. Again hope you can find some positivity.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

That is not what TRT says, at all ...
It actually says that thoughts alone can not take away the negative conditioned response.

Just read the book, it's helpful.

I know TRT tries to explain itself as one thing but that's really all it boils down to. Also I'm not trying to be confrontational just my opinion

The only thing good enough will be something to fully rid myself of the tinnitus. Until the. It's either drugs or suicide. Since my doctor won't offer me anything other than drugs and blunt hard truth.

I just read about this UofM device and if t works the way it says it does, I would pay the price of TRT For it. Probably requires good credit rating captain Jack

 

[threefirefour]

I know TRT tries to explain itself as one thing but that's really all it boils down to. Also I'm not trying to be confrontational just my opinion

The only thing good enough will be something to fully rid myself of the tinnitus. Until the. It's either drugs or suicide. Since my doctor won't offer me anything other than drugs and blunt hard truth.

I just read about this UofM device and if t works the way it says it does, I would pay the price of TRT For it. Probably requires good credit rating captain Jack

I agree it sounds so much better than I expected. I guess they're "retuning" it but I really hope they go through with their plan to release a final product before fall this year. It's unlikely but with good luck, it's possible.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

I agree it sounds so much better than I expected. I guess they're "retuning" it but I really hope they go through with their plan to release a final product before fall this year. It's unlikely but with good luck, it's possible.

One day my brother one day... in the end if I can add one principal stay positive... Susan Shore will be the new Jasterboff... but with tangible results

Also. If TRT works for one person we cannot take away their subjective experience so i'm happy for whatever works for one person.

The price alone hurt though, I remember breaking down mentally. The only treatment possible, TRT was... it hurts to think about the Cost. How can the medical establishment treat tinnitus patients with utter apathy. Insurance won't cover either. Guess I be screwed

Captain jack

 

[threefirefour]

One day my brother one day... in the end if I can add one principal stay positive... Susan Shore will be the new Jasterboff... but with tangible results

Also. If TRT works for one person we cannot take away their subjective experience so i'm happy for whatever works for one person.

The price alone hurt though, I remember breaking down mentally. The only treatment possible, TRT was... it hurts to think about the Cost. How can the medical establishment treat tinnitus patients with utter apathy. Insurance won't cover either. Guess I be screwed

Captain jack

Hopefuly Susan Shore is the new big thing but I wouldn't call her the new Jastreboff because her name doesn't deserve to be dragged through the mud like that

I think the main reason the medical establishment pretends tinnitus isn't an issue, is because they can't make a profit off it. What I hope and look forward too, is when Signal Timing comes out, and there's an explosion in tinnitus reducing treatments. TRT has been the best treatment for too long, and it doesn't do anything in terms of reduction. It's time for it to die anyways.

 

[pytajnick]

When tinnitus becomes loud and intrusive which mine was back in 2008 to 2012. Two years of TRT and another two years to habitate 4 years in all. It is about counselling. A person cannot counsel themselves. Even habituation has it's limitations for there is only so much one can do on their own. I was in a very dark place. The counselling part of TRT is the most important. This is the reason that is cannot be done online or by yourself. It needs a professional therapist, someone that is trained in tinnitus counselling and ideally, the person should have tinnitus for best results.

Michael

Let me be a bit skeptical about this statement. Official TRT training lasts... 3 days (source http://www.tinnitus-pjj.com/training.html). Do you know from your own experience if there is some extra knowledge that isn't covered in the TRT handbook or is it just your assumption? Can You elaborate why counseling part can't be performed by the person himself/herself?

 

[threefirefour]

How do you expose someone, that has decades of knowledge about the very same topic you need help with?

No idea why it took two hours for me to get this notification.

By expose, I mean pointing out where he's wrong. Experience doesn't make one right; it depends on what onehas experience in. Like how someone with decades of experience in crystal healing won't be better off than someone who has no experience in healthcare. Like his statements that the only way forward is professional real life counselling. He has decades of listening to this but it makes him no less wrong.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Let me be a bit skeptical about this statement. Official TRT training lasts... 3 days (source http://www.tinnitus-pjj.com/training.html). Do you know from your own experience if there is some extra knowledge that isn't covered in the TRT handbook or is it just your assumption? Can You elaborate why counseling part can't be performed by the person himself/herself?

@pytajnick

Since you have asked me politely I will try to answer your question and this is my personal opinion as someone that has had TRT twice, the full treatment and not a scaled down version of it. I also speak as someone that has had tinnitus for many years and consider myself a veteran of the condition and knowledgeable on tinnitus and hyperacusis that were caused by "exposure to loud noise" . There are many people in this forum that understand tinnitus & hyperacusis and the way these conditions can affect a person emotionally, their mental wellbeing and day to day living just as well as I can. I am always looking to learn more because no one knows it all. Therefore, I readily accept advice from fellow veterans, those seasoned to tinnitus and newbies alike.

The TRT book written by Professor Jastreboff is a reference book meant for Hearing Therapists and Audiologists that want to practice the TRT treatment with tinnitus patients. It explains all about causes of tinnitus and hyperacusis and the treatment for these conditions using the TRT protocol. It explains about phonophobia and misophonia and the way these four conditions can affect a patient. It cannot teach a person tinnitus counselling although it does give guidance and suggestions on the subject. The actual counselling skills, has to come from the Hearing Therapist or Audiologist training and personal experience. By this I mean the following: For a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist that practices the TRT treatment with a tinnitus patient or even does counselling with such a patient, for best results they need to have personal experience of tinnitus. It is not unusual to find Hearing Therapist and Audiologists that work with tinnitus patients, were either born with tinnitus or acquired it at some time in their life.

It is for this reason most ENT doctors know very little about tinnitus. They know about the anatomy of the ear and can treat it medically or surgically. However, understanding tinnitus requires a different set of skills. ENT doctors are physicians not counsellors.

As I have already mentioned on this thread. Tinnitus comes in many forms and intensities and no two people experience it the same. Many people habituate to tinnitus within the first 6 to 18 months of onset. This doesn't always require having treatment at a tinnitus clinic. A person that has difficulty coping with tinnitus may need one to one counselling with a therapist and this is something that they cannot do themselves. Life can be very problematic. Often people do not have just tinnitus to cope with. They may have other medical conditions and people they deal with in their personal lives. All this can have an affect on the tinnitus. Through counselling (talk therapy) a person can discuss all aspects and situations going on in their life with their Therapist. Suggestions and solutions are often found which can help the habituation process. This is something a person cannot do by themselves.

So what is TRT and when should it be started?

At first the therapist discusses with the patient how the tinnitus makes them feel and how it has impacted on their life. Often people say they have lost interest in the things they once liked doing, which is perfectly understandable. The main goal here is to gradually help them look at life differently and with a more positive outlook. Over time the negative thinking that is often associated with tinnitus and hyperacusis is gradually dispelled and demystified.

The Hearing Therapist does this in a controlled and precise manner so that the patient feels relaxed and not pressured. In many instances the tinnitus is gradually pushed further into the background making it less prominent. Therefore, it must be stressed and understood, this treatment takes time. To complete a course of TRT takes approximately twelve to twenty four months and in some cases longer. The duration of each counselling session is left to the discretion of the Hearing Therapist. Typically, these can last up to one hour or more. The amount of appointments required will be different for each patient, but it is quality rather than the quantity of the counselling that really matters.

There are a few misconceptions about this treatment and the way it is administered that some people misunderstand which I want to address. If a patient is given one white noise generator to wear this is not TRT. When two WNGs are issued and no tinnitus counselling is offered on a regular basis, it is not TRT. I am not saying that a patient will not gain any benefit from the above treatments; I only want to state they do not follow the proper Tinnitus retraining therapy protocol.

When should TRT be implemented or started?

The following is based on my own opinion and therefore is not professional medical advice. The onset of tinnitus can be quite an emotional roller coaster for a lot of people, and I believe a person needs time for this to settle. Many people habituate within the first 6 months to one year of the onset of tinnitus without any treatment. If a person just has tinnitus without any additional symptoms, such as dizziness, deafness or balance problems. I think a period of six months should elapse before starting a long-term treatment such as TRT.

Michael

 

[pytajnick]

@pytajnick

Since you have asked me politely I will try to answer your question and this is my personal opinion as someone that has had TRT twice, the full treatment and not a scaled down version of it. I also speak as someone that has had tinnitus for many years and consider myself a veteran of the condition and knowledgeable on tinnitus and hyperacusis that were caused by "exposure to loud noise" . There are many people in this forum that understand tinnitus & hyperacusis and the way these conditions can affect a person emotionally, their mental wellbeing and day to day living just as well as I can. I am always looking to learn more because no one knows it all. Therefore, I readily accept advice from fellow veterans, those seasoned to tinnitus and newbies alike.

The TRT book written by Professor Jastreboff is a reference book meant for Hearing Therapists and Audiologists that want to practice the TRT treatment with tinnitus patients. It explains all about causes of tinnitus and hyperacusis and the treatment for these conditions using the TRT protocol. It explains about phonophobia and misophonia and the way these four conditions can affect a patient. It cannot teach a person tinnitus counselling although it does give guidance and suggestion on the subject. The actual counselling skills, has to come from the Hearing Therapist or Audiologist training and personal experience. By this I mean the following: For a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist that practices the TRT treatment with a tinnitus patient or even does counselling with such a patient, for best results they need to have personal experience of tinnitus. It is not unusual to find Hearing Therapist and Audiologists that work with tinnitus patients, were either born with tinnitus or acquired it at some time in their life.

It is for this reason most ENT doctors know very little about tinnitus. They know about the anatomy of the ear and can treat it medically or surgically. However, understanding tinnitus requires a different set of skill. ENT doctors are physicians not counsellors.

As I have already mentioned on this thread. Tinnitus comes in many forms and intensities and no two people experience it the same. Many people habituate to tinnitus within the first 6 to 18 months of onset. This doesn't always require having treatment at a tinnitus clinic. A person that has difficulty coping with tinnitus may need one to one counselling with a therapist and this is something that they cannot do themselves. Life can be very problematic. Often people do not have just tinnitus to cope with. They may have other medical conditions a people they deal with in their personal lives. All this can have an affect on the tinnitus.

So what is TRT and when should it be started?

At first the therapist discusses with the patient how the tinnitus makes them feel and how it has impacted on their life. Often people say they have lost interest in the things they once liked doing, which is perfectly understandable. The main goal here is to gradually help them look at life differently and with a more positive outlook. Over time the negative thinking that is often associated with tinnitus and hyperacusis is gradually dispelled and demystified.

The Hearing Therapist does this in a controlled and precise manner so that the patient feels relaxed and not pressured. In many instances the tinnitus is gradually pushed further into the background making it less prominent. Therefore, it must be stressed and understood, this treatment takes time. To complete a course of TRT takes approximately twelve to twenty four months and in some cases longer. The duration of each counselling session is left to the discretion of the Hearing Therapist. Typically, these can last up to one hour or more. The amount of appointments required will be different for each patient, but it is quality rather than the quantity of the counselling that really matters.

There are a few misconceptions about this treatment and the way it is administered that some people misunderstand which I want to address. If a patient is given one white noise generator to wear this is not TRT. When two WNGs are issued and no tinnitus counselling is offered on a regular basis, it is not TRT. I am not saying that a patient will not gain any benefit from the above treatments; I only want to state they do not follow the proper Tinnitus retraining therapy protocol.

When should TRT be implemented or started?

The following is based on my own opinion and therefore is not professional medical advice. The onset of tinnitus can be quite an emotional roller coaster for a lot of people, and I believe a person needs time for this to settle. Many people habituate within the first 6 months to one year of the onset of tinnitus without any treatment. If a person just has tinnitus without any additional symptoms, such as dizziness, deafness or balance problems. I think a period of six months should elapse before starting a long-term treatment such as TRT.

Michael

Thank you for your effort but as far as I know TRT courses are available for anyone interested. Theoretically and practically You don't need to have any medical or therapeutic background to finish the course and be registered as a trt therapist. So that rises a question: if there's more in the 3 day course than in the book? Personally I find neurophysiological model of tinnitus not that hard to understand after reading the book, I have wng's from NHS hearing therapist and I am simply wondering how could I benefit from trt counselling?

 

[Michael Leigh]

Thank you for your effort but as far as I know TRT courses are available for anyone interested. Theoretically and practically You don't need to have any medical or therapeutic background to finish the course and be registered as a trt therapist. So that rises a question: if there's more in the 3 day course than in the book? Personally I find neurophysiological model of tinnitus not that hard to understand after reading the book, I have wng's from NHS hearing therapist and I am simply wondering how could I benefit from trt counselling?

I have given you all the information that I can and if that isn't good enough then please go elsewhere.
Best of luck
Michael

 

[pytajnick]

I have given you all the information that I can and if that isn't good enough then please go elsewhere.
Best of luck
Michael

I can't say I'm totally satisfied but thank you regardless May I ask You something else? Did you ever have a second thoughts about the cause of reemission of your tinnitus? You mentioned in one of our conversations that it was listening to music with hi-fi system at home but you also mentioned that it wasn't too loud - 70 dB more or less as I recall. As I am aware it's way below the levels considered as potentially hazardous for hearing.

 

[Michael Leigh]

@pytajnick

Thank you.
Some people are under the impression that TRT and in particular the counselling is not effective in helping a person to cope with tinnitus. That is just fine but lets be honest here. The real reason for this view is because the treatment is expensive and I fully understand that. I count myself fortunate that I had the treatment twice, ten years apart and didn't have to pay for it. I don't think I would have been able to afford it.

A person cannot counsel themselves and I have mentioned the reasons above and it doesn't matter if a person goes on a TRT course or reads the TRT book. If tinnitus is loud and intrusive and it becomes a problem then antidepressants and some form of counselling with a trained therapist is one of the best ways to help treat it and get one's life back. However, if they are of the belief that such treatments will not work then they won't.

Michael

 

[Grey Dawn]

Putting noise generators in your ears is not a good idea, in my humble opinion. While it's a popular salve now (cause it's something they CAN build), it will likely cause further hearing damage and T down the line. In my mind, better to drive hurtful or sham treatments down the tubes, and push for what might really work. It's harder to restore the myelin sheath (likely part of the damage in noise related T), but IF they could medically learn to do this then it would likely help (and those with Park and Alz). Ditto for stem cells (see promising rat studies). We need REAL science of the brain and ear and we need it now! Current methods of medical visualization of this problem are woefully inadequate.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Putting noise generators in your ears is not a good idea, in my humble opinion

With respect you are wrong. When white noise generators are used correctly, they can help reduce tinnitus and in many cases cure hyperacusis. I have been using white noise generators for 20 years and never had a problem with them.

Michael

 

[fishbone]

Putting noise generators in your ears is not a good idea, in my humble opinion. While it's a popular salve now (cause it's something they CAN build), it will likely cause further hearing damage and T down the line. In my mind, better to drive hurtful or sham treatments down the tubes, and push for what might really work. It's harder to restore the myelin sheath (likely part of the damage in noise related T), but IF they could medically learn to do this then it would likely help (and those with Park and Alz). Ditto for stem cells (see promising rat studies). We need REAL science of the brain and ear and we need it now! Current methods of medical visualization of this problem are woefully inadequate.

I had TRT treatment for nasty hyperacusis over 25+ years ago and it seemed to work for me. It's all up to the individual to do the TRT treatment or not. Saying it won't work, is just plain false. It is expensive, but lets not say it won't work because of the price.

For me, the cost was worth it and not having hyperacusis has made my life much better. I agree with Michael in regards to seeing a professional and getting it done with a professional, than self healing ourselves. It's up to you folks on what you do, but that's what I would do.

 

[Michael Leigh]

@fishbone

I wish these amateurs would stay off the forum and not comment, on treatment or devices for tinnitus that they have no nothing about.

Michael

 

[fishbone]

@fishbone

I wish these amateurs would stay of the forum and not comment, on treatment or devices for tinnitus that they have no nothing about.

Michael

The folks that come here are blessed to have people like Michael and myself and a few others spend their time and help out. I wish I had this forum when I first got tinnitus 30 years ago. I would have avoided many mistakes that I have made.

Experience speaks for itself, newcomers can say what they like, but you cannot know more than someone that has been at this over 20+ years.

 

[Grey Dawn]

Hey guys, I have a white noise generator, too. It's one of those little machines that makes sounds like the ocean. I do like it and sleep with it at night, but I don't put a smaller version in my ear. Just my humble opinion. My H went down mostly on it's own with time.

I have done nothing but throw money, time and research at this problem. My assertions here are my professional opinion about what's best for the entire community, not just my individual (or any one individuals) experience. This is not cured by any modern medical intervention or current machine. Sorry. That's just not true. If it was, this growing international community would not exist.

Glad if you're "well"--then it's likely your own biology saving you. If you are arguing, rather, that you have adapted to T -- good for you. But that is NOT the same thing as a cure, and I, for one, want the real thing. Brain nerve research is the next level of required medical evolution and intervention. Cures/better management strategies for many injuries and diseases depend on it!

GD

 

[Michael Leigh]

The folks that come here are blessed to have people like Michael and myself and a few others spend their time and help out. I wish I had this forum when I first got tinnitus 30 years ago. I would have avoided many mistakes that I have made.

Experience speaks for itself, newcomers can say what they like, but you cannot know more than someone that has been at this over 20+ years.

Exactly @fishbone these people don't know how lucky they are. Back in the day 22 years ago I had to find out about tinnitus the hard way. There was no Internet for me back then. I had to get my knowledge from books and tough it out.
These people have everything given to them on a plate and they still complain.

Michael

 

[fishbone]

Hey guys, I have a white noise generator, too. It's one of those little machines that makes sounds like the ocean. I do like it and sleep with it at night, but I don't put a smaller version in my ear. Just my humble opinion. My H went down mostly on it's own with time.

I have done nothing but throw money, time and research at this problem. My assertions here are my professional opinion about what's best for the entire community, not just my individual (or any one individuals) experience. This is not cured by any modern medical intervention or current machine. Sorry. That's just not true. If it was, this growing international community would not exist.

Glad if you're "well"--then it's likely your own biology saving you. If you are arguing, rather, that you have adapted to T -- good for you. But that is NOT the same thing as a cure, and I, for one, want the real thing. Brain nerve research is the next level of required medical evolution and intervention. Cures/better management strategies for many injuries and diseases depend on it!

GD

If you plan on doing TRT for hyperacusis, then you need to see a professional and they can guide you. Hyperacusis has a chance at being cured. Tinnitus has no cure as of this time. If it does and I am wrong then forgive me and please show me a link that someone has been cured.

If you or anyone has their life impacted by hyperacusis, then you could possibly do something about it. That's the point I am making, Michael is making.

I had brutal hyperacusis for over 4+ years and know the HELL it caused me. I would pay for my trt treatment again, it made that much of an impact on my life.

 

[Grey Dawn]

Ok. Sorry to insult you. I appreciate that it must have been hard back in the day. For my P.O.V. it doesn't seem like we have advanced very much. I expect more of modern medicine, I guess.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I had brutal hyperacusis for over 4+ years and know the HELL it caused me. I would pay for my trt treatment again, it made that much of an impact on my life.

All these moaners do is complain, complain and complain. They have no backbone, grit or fight in them. The first sign of a little trouble in their life and they go to pieces. That is the problem with the society today everyone wants things easy.
Michael

 

[fishbone]

Ok. Sorry to insult you. I appreciate that it must have been hard back in the day. For my P.O.V. it doesn't seem like we have advanced very much. I expect more of modern medicine, I guess.

Tinnitus is a complex matter because it relates to how our ears function and how our brain functions. Those 2 components are not easy to 100% treat and diagnose. I am at least glad that there are some tools and techniques that one can use to cope and live their lives with tinnitus.

 

[threefirefour]

For my P.O.V. it doesn't seem like we have advanced very much. I expect more of modern medicine, I guess.

A while ago we had a thread about Martin Luther and his Tinnitus. Back in his lifetime, he had tinnitus he thought was caused by demons. The thread was about whether he would be better off if he was born today than if he was around in the 1400's. The majority thought absolutely not. In reality tinnitus research has advanced that little. We understand it more, but we still have no answer on reducing it. We've made a breakthrough this month, but until that's on the market, ML is still no better off.

All these moaners do is complain, complain and complain. They have no backbone, grit or fight in them. The first sign of a little trouble in their life and they go to pieces. That is the problem with the society today everyone wants things easy.
Michael

If I was as good at sweeping as that assumption you made, my mom wouldn't yell at me so much.