I Hate TRT (Tinnitus Retraining Therapy)

[threefirefour]

Every post I've seen from you is negative and pessimistic, the worst part is that you make incredibly dumb statements and new people on the forum might see this and get even more stressed. I just finished reading the book by Jastreboff and TRT is a tool to speed up habituation, and yes this is a natural process and no it's not a cure in the strictest sense. However many people habituate to the point that they are never aware of their tinnitus anymore unless they are thinking about it:

And guess what, it is impossible to habituate to a stimulus that is perceived as a threat, keep this negativity up and you'll have a very difficult time habituating and spend a lot of energy better focussed elsewhere.

>Member since Jan 11, 2018.
Aww, a newbie. I'm gonna let you off this time but fair warning, After being on this site for a bit longer, you'll see that you don't wanna start shit with me about this subject, or my "negativity". You're welcome.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Every post I've seen from you is negative and pessimistic, the worst part is that you make incredibly dumb statements and new people on the forum might see this and get even more stressed. I just finished reading the book by Jastreboff

Well said @Chris Holland

I see that you are new to tinnitus and to this forum. You have done well reading the TRT book written by Professor Jastreboff, it isn't easy when a person has tinnitus as it's quite in depth. I have read it too and often refer to it. I have had TRT twice with good results. Please give @threefirefour a wide berth. His only purpose here is to spread negativity and make people believe there is no hope for anyone that has tinnitus. He will not progress as he doesn't have the right mindset and isn't willing to try. These kind of people want everything done for them and go around feeling sorry for themselves. Sad but true.

I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Chris Holland]

Aww, a newbie. I'm gonna let you off this time but fair warning, After being on this site for a bit longer, you'll see that you don't wanna start shit with me about this subject, or my "negativity". You're welcome.

Fair warning? I don't plan on being on this site much longer, I plan to habituate, if I come back it will be to help.
Hope you can find the strength to do the same, many people in my environment habituated to the point they are no longer consciously aware of their tinnitus, most people habituate with or without TRT, if not this forum's member count would be bigger than facebook's, think about that.

 

[threefirefour]

Well said @Chris Holland

I see that you are new to tinnitus and to this forum. You have done well reading the TRT book written by Professor Jastreboff, it isn't easy when a person has tinnitus as it's quite in depth. I have read it too and often refer to it. I have had TRT twice with good results. Please give @threefirefour a wide berth. His only purpose here is to spread negativity and make people believe there is no hope for anyone that has tinnitus. He will not progress as he doesn't have the right mindset and isn't willing to try. These kind of people want everything done and go around feeling sorry for themselves. Sad but true.

I wish you well.
Michael

I thought you were done trying to attack me because you couldn't take the heat. Well here's why you made that choice.

Your only purpose here is to shill for an outdated bullshit method of treating tinnitus, and give otherwise bad advice. You keep saying that reactive tinnitus doesn't exist, and it's just hyperacusis in disguise. Nevermind the fact that people who actually have it keep telling you that you're wrong. Another piece of bad advice I've gotten was some random pair of expensive headphones that you claim helps regenerate hearing; nevermind the fact there's absolutely no proper evidence to back this claim up. You type long comments but say so little. I may be negative but at least I can give functional advice.

Fair warning? I don't plan on being on this site much longer, I plan to habituate, if I come back it will be to help.
Hope you can find the strength to do the same, many people in my environment habituated to the point they are no longer consciously aware of their tinnitus, most people habituate with or without TRT, if not this forum's member count would be bigger than facebook's, think about that.

I HIGHLY doubt it would be bigger than normiebook even at that point, but much larger sure. Heads up: If you come back to help please don't pollute the success stories forum. I'll have to meme it then

But hopefully you leave forever. Here that's a good thing.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

If TRT works or not, it may come down to using the right age training methods. Tinnitus distress in a younger population is believed to be generated by the neocortical areas. The distress in the elderly is believe to be generated by the cingulate cortex. If this is true as many neuro studies state including within this link, then different TRT methods may need to be used depending on age. Neocortical areas process different emotions, decision making and acceptance than the cingulate cortex. This is the new psychology being studied.


https://www.utd.edu/~sxv140030/Published/81.pdf

 

[Chris Holland]

Well said @Chris Holland

I see that you are new to tinnitus and to this forum. You have done well reading the TRT book written by Professor Jastreboff, it isn't easy when a person has tinnitus as it's quite in depth. I have read it too and often refer to it. I have had TRT twice with good results. Please give @threefirefour a wide berth. His only purpose here is to spread negativity and make people believe their is no hope for anyone that has tinnitus. He will not progress as he doesn't have the right mindset and isn't willing to try. These kind of people want everything done and go around feeling sorry for themselves. Sad but true.

Thank you Michael and thank you for sharing your story of habituation, it's inspirational to say the least.
The book was indeed in-depth but very interesting on an academic level. It completely demystified tinnitus for me and I am implementing it's protocol for my own recovery. I believe success is largely attributed to mindset and part of that is learning to view tinnitus as a neutral stimuli, this is not possible from a negative mindset, I hope people will understand this as it seems there is a lot of unnecessary suffering on this board ...

 

[threefirefour]

Thank you Michael and thank you for sharing your story of habituation, it's inspirational to say the least.
The book was indeed in-depth but very interesting on an academic level. It completely demystified tinnitus for me and I am implementing it's protocol for my own recovery. I believe success is largely attributed to mindset and part of that is learning to view tinnitus as a neutral stimuli, this is not possible from a negative mindset, I hope people will understand this as it seems there is a lot of unnecessary suffering on this board ...

Notice how he went twice. Says a lot in itself, and despite it not working enough to only go once, he still shills it like it's the best thing around. Don't just ask me, there's other members (some left) That think he drunk the TRT kool-aid, even if they like him.

 

[threefirefour]

Well said @Chris Holland

I see that you are new to tinnitus and to this forum. You have done well reading the TRT book written by Professor Jastreboff, it isn't easy when a person has tinnitus as it's quite in depth. I have read it too and often refer to it. I have had TRT twice with good results. Please give @threefirefour a wide berth. His only purpose here is to spread negativity and make people believe there is no hope for anyone that has tinnitus. He will not progress as he doesn't have the right mindset and isn't willing to try. These kind of people want everything done for them and go around feeling sorry for themselves. Sad but true.

I wish you well.
Michael

Rate me funny all you want. I tried being nice to you but you just try to get me banned, and insult me to other users, and then you wonder why I expose you.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Notice how he went twice. Says a lot in itself, and despite it not working enough to only go once, he still shills it like it's the best thing around. Don't just ask me, there's other members (some left) That think he drunk the TRT kool-aid, even if they like him.

I had TRT treatment 10 years apart. Anyway, I thought you were supposed to have left this forum, what are you doing here?

 

[threefirefour]

I had TRT treatment 10 years apart. Anyway, I thought you were supposed to have left this forum, what are you doing here?

I said I was gonna leave until Nov. 11, 2017 because I wanted to off myself if I didn't get a reduction in volume, and didn't want to spend my few potential days surrounded by people on this site. Luckily I did because I got me ETD resolved so here I am.

And if it works so well, why would you need to go after 10 years? I thought it got easier with time.

 

[Chris Holland]

Notice how he went twice. Says a lot in itself, and despite it not working enough to only go once, he still shills it like it's the best thing around. Don't just ask me, there's other members (some left) That think he drunk the TRT kool-aid, even if they like him.

Habituation is real, TRT aides this, can take months, might take years, negativity and negative counselling inhibit habituation. I know a lot of people that habituated and T does not bother them, it is bothersome because of automatic response of the nervous system, this can be ''untaught'' but not with negative emotion towards T.

 

[fishbone]

Rate me funny all you want. I tried being nice to you but you just try to get me banned, and insult me to other users, and then you wonder why I expose you.

How do you expose someone, that has decades of knowledge about the very same topic you need help with?

 

[Michael Leigh]

I said I was gonna leave until Nov. 11, 2017 because I wanted to off myself if I didn't get a reduction in volume, and didn't want to spend my few potential days surrounded by people on this site. Luckily I did because I got me ETD resolved so here I am.

And if it works so well, why would you need to go after 10 years? I thought it got easier with time.

You do not know enough about tinnitus. I had a second noise exposure and the tinnitus returned with a vengeance. If you read my post: My experience with tinnitus, on my "started threads" you will see what I mean. It is good that your ETD has been resolved so I'm pleased for you.

I wish you well
Michael

 

[fishbone]

Habituation is real, TRT aides this, can take months, might take years, negativity and negative counselling inhibit habituation. I know a lot of people that habituated and T does not bother them, it is bothersome because of automatic response of the nervous system, this can be ''untaught'' but not with negative emotion towards T.

Habituation is a mindset. No matter how loud or quiet tinnitus is, habituation is very real and can happen. It's all about having the proper mindset and strategy.

 

[threefirefour]

Habituation is real, TRT aides this, can take months, might take years, negativity and negative counselling inhibit habituation. I know a lot of people that habituated and T does not bother them, it is bothersome because of automatic response of the nervous system, this can be ''untaught'' but not with negative emotion towards T.

Dude just stop. If you're going to tell me the same cut and paste garbage that I hear daily from this site, I'm just not gonna pay attention.

You do not know enough about tinnitus. I had a second noise exposure and the tinnitus returned with a vengeance. If you read my post: My experience with tinnitus, on my "started threads" you will see what I mean. It is good that your ETD has been resolved so I'm pleased for you.

I wish you well
Michael

Thanks but that doesn't make sense. Doesn't it teach you coping skills? If so what can another go teach you?

 

[Cheza]

If TRT works or not, it may come down to using the right age training methods. Tinnitus distress in a younger population is believed to be generated by the neocortical areas. The distress in the elderly is believe to be generated by the cingulate cortex. If this is true as many neuro studies state including within this link, then different TRT methods may need to be used depending on age. Neocortical areas process different emotions, decision making and acceptance than the cingulate cortex. This is the new psychology being studied.

https://www.utd.edu/~sxv140030/Published/81.pdf

That's a very interesting concept. I just took a look at the beginning paragraphs and noted this: "Late-onset tinnitus (LOT) was recently found to differ from early-onset tinnitus (EOT) with regard to tinnitus- related distress, in that LOT is more abruptly and severely distressing than EOT."

I'm initially going to disagree with that, as my experience on this forum has been that the younger members seem to experience greater distress, which I attribute to the shock of unexpectedly acquiring tinnitus at an early age. Severe tinnitus appears to be equally distressing regardlesss of age. No one is prepared for it.

It also raises the question as to what other disorders/diseases are perceived with greater distress by late onset vs. early onset. One would like to believe that the life experience we gain by growing older allows us to take setbacks in stride. Or maybe we're more distressed because after all we've been through, tinnitus now rears its ugly head.

But as I said, I only perused the first few paragraphs and will read the paper in more detail later. I did notice it was published in 2013, so perhaps the theory didn't gain much traction. If you know of a paper published in layperson's language, please share. I'm not a doctor nor a scientist, and don't want to misapprehend the material.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Dude just stop. If you're going to tell me the same cut and paste garbage that I hear daily from this site, I'm just not gonna pay attention.

Thanks but that doesn't make sense. Doesn't it teach you coping skills? If so what can another go teach you?

When tinnitus becomes loud and intrusive which mine was back in 2008 to 2012. Two years of TRT and another two years to habitate 4 years in all. It is about counselling. A person cannot counsel themselves. Even habituation has it's limitations for there is only so much one can do on their own. I was in a very dark place. The counselling part of TRT is the most important. This is the reason that is cannot be done online or by yourself. It needs a professional therapist, someone that is trained in tinnitus counselling and ideally, the person should have tinnitus for best results.

Michael

 

[Chris Holland]

Dude just stop. If you're going to tell me the same cut and paste garbage that I hear daily from this site, I'm just not gonna pay attention.

However much I'd like to have a magic treatment for my T there is none.
Habituation is 100% real and achievable, it is tough, it is scary, it won't be easy, but it's real.

I think the story below is very suitable as an analogy ...

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."

The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."
So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."
To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the motorboat went on.
Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."

To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"

To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

 

[fishbone]

Dude just stop. If you're going to tell me the same cut and paste garbage that I hear daily from this site, I'm just not gonna pay attention.

Thanks but that doesn't make sense. Doesn't it teach you coping skills? If so what can another go teach you?

The same methods/advice you call garbage are those that people use and move on and live their lives. It's obvious that your mentality is holding you down. Don't blame this site and the people that come and try to help people like YOU on a daily basis. No one pays us to come here.

Unless you change your thinking, it will be very hard to move forward. Tinnitus is an ordeal that needs positivity, no matter how loud and intrusive it can be. Negativity and a bad mindset simply does no good.

If you do not want to move forward, then why come to this site? My ears are buzzing so damn loud right now. If i thought like you, i'd be scared of the places i'd be in mentally...

 

[threefirefour]

When tinnitus becomes loud and intrusive which mine was back in 2008 to 2012. Two years of TRT and another two years to habitate 4 years in all. It is about counselling. A person cannot counsel themselves. Even habituation has it's limitations for there is only so much one can do on their own. I was in a very dark place. The counselling part of TRT is the most important. This is the reason that is cannot be done online or by yourself. It needs a professional therapist, someone that is trained in tinnitus counselling and ideally, the person should have tinnitus for best results.

Michael

I'm sorry but I very heavily fundamentally disagree with you here. If what you say is true, then self habituation would be impossible because self counselling would be impossible, and this site would be useless because it cannot be done online. The fact you say stuff about how it has to be done in person, by a trained professional, is why some users think you drank the TRT kool-aid.

However much I'd like to have a magic treatment for my T there is none.
Habituation is 100% real and achievable, it is tough, it is scary, it won't be easy, but it's real.

I think the story below is very suitable as an analogy ...

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."

The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."
So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."
To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the motorboat went on.
Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."

To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"

To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

That's an analogy about missing methods that could achieve the wanted result, by having tunnel vision. This situation is more like rising water no help in sight, and accepting your death.

The same methods/advice you call garbage are those that people use and move on and live their lives. It's obvious that your mentality is holding you down. Don't blame this site and the people that come and try to help people like YOU on a daily basis. No one pays us to come here.

Unless you change your thinking, it will be very hard to move forward. Tinnitus is an ordeal that needs positivity, no matter how loud and intrusive it can be. Negativity and a bad mindset simply does no good.

If you do not want to move forward, then why come to this site? My ears are buzzing so damn loud right now. If i thought like you, i'd be scared of the places i'd be in mentally...

Except its still the same repetetive garbage. If I didn't care before, why would I now?

 

[Michael Leigh]

@threefirefour

I will make this my last post on this subject as you can access all the information in my posts on my started threads. Tinnitus comes in many forms and intensites and no two people experience it the same. Many people habituate to tinnitus within the first 6 to 18 months of onset. Some do this without seeking professional help.

Michael

 

[Jack Sparrow]

For me, habituation is not good enough.

Yeah it doesn't bother me as much but should the tinnitus be there at all?

I recall attending a tinnitus clinic and I nearly choked on my own spit when they Told me the cost of TRT. Tinnitus was distressing enough and the price of the only treatment offwwrws (thousands!) felt like the universe was laughing at my misery.

I want to support TRT but the cost alone is insulting. My father tried it he also has tinnitus and he did not like it. "You're just told to think happy thoughts until the noise doesn't bother you anymore." he told, and the poor man still cannot sleep properly.

 

[Chris Holland]

The counselling part of TRT is the most important.

What did the counseling add for you opposed to reading the TRT texts and implementing the techniques? I'm curious because I'm visiting a psychiatrist as well (who has tinnitus as well) and maybe I can take this up with him ...

 

[threefirefour]

@threefirefour

I will make this my last post on this subject as you can access all the information in my posts on my started threads. Tinnitus comes in many forms and intensites and no two people experience it the same. Many people habituate to tinnitus within the first 6 to 18 months of onset. Some do this without seeking professional help.

Michael

I'm just pointing out flaws in your previous logic. I'll see you later then.

 

[Chris Holland]

"You're just told to think happy thoughts until the noise doesn't bother you anymore." he told, and the poor man still cannot sleep properly.

That is not what TRT says, at all ...
It actually says that thoughts alone can not take away the negative conditioned response.

Just read the book, it's helpful.

 

[fishbone]

It's obvious you just come here to rattle the board and stir things up. People like myself and Michael, Glynis,Billie have a vast amount of knowledge on this matter and you disrespect those that been at this MUCH longer than you have. If you do not seek help and want to be helped find a new board.

 

[Chris Holland]

I recall attending a tinnitus clinic and I nearly choked on my own spit when they Told me the cost of TRT. Tinnitus was distressing enough and the price of the only treatment offwwrws (thousands!) felt like the universe was laughing at my misery.

The cost definitely is too high but you can do a lot of it's principles by yourself ...

 

[Michael Leigh]

What did the counseling add for you opposed to reading the TRT texts and implementing the techniques? I'm curious because I'm visiting a psychiatrist as well (who has tinnitus as well) and maybe I can take this up with him ...

@Chris Holland
The TRT book cannot counsel you although it can tell you the nuts and bolt of tinnitus and hyperacusis. Counselling is vitally important for some people with tinnitus that have it severe and intrusive. My second noise trauma in 2008 was so severe it is very difficult to explain. I wasn't a new for I had tinnitus for 12 so was experienced. However, it hit me with such a ferocity was needed the professional help and was pleased to get that with my hearing therapist, that was Born with tinnitus.

Please go to my started threads, and read my many posts on the benefits of counselling and tinnitus. I am not using my regular PC only a small tablet and it's not easy to type.
All the best
Michael

 

[fishbone]

The cost definitely is too high but you can do a lot of it's principles by yourself ...

TRT is not cheap at all. I had very bad hyperacusis for 4+ years in my early years with tinnitus. It was the best money I ever spent. TRT takes time as well, you have to be disciplined for it to work....

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Chris Holland

If you want counselling and positive input to help you with your tinnitus. Read the positivity posts on my started threads regularly, and read the positivity messages written by members of this forum on the "posivity thread".

Michael