I Just Don't Understand Why My Ears Are So Reactive

[Alue]

I know I've been here before, but I just feel the need to vent. Last week I was on a company trip and everyone was going out to dinner. I really didn't want to go (because I knew it was going to be loud with everyone drinking) but I really didn't have a choice in the matter this time. To make things worse a large group of us carpooled from the hotel, so once I was there I couldn't just leave.

There was no loud music, just a very loud crowd. I wore deeply inserted earplugs the whole time and even put on my NC headphones after a while. Those really helped, but it's very awkward having to do that at a nice restaurant. There were a few other people that thought it was loud and they don't have tinnitus/hyperacusis. It was loud enough that you couldn't really hear people talking on the other end off the table.

Now I'm sitting here with the worst spike that I've had in a long time. My head tinnitus is back to the level that makes me want to pull my hair out.

What I don't get is why my ears are so reactive. I had a decibel meter with me and the noise level was in the 80-85 dB range according to the meter, but one would think I would be 'safe' with earplugs. I was there for about three hours and wore earplugs + my noise cancelling headphones for more than half of it. With the NC headphones that has to be well over a 30 dB reduction.

The other thing I don't get is why it makes my 'head tinnitus' spike as oppose to my ear tinnitus. My main tone is the ultra high pitched head buzzing and right that's what's bothering me. Does anybody else have this type of head tinnitus that also reacts to noise? It's back to making me want to pull my hair out level which I haven't experienced in a long time. I've been at this for three years and know my limitations, but I still don't understand why.

I really wish I didn't go, I knew I would regret it even before going, but I didn't have much of a choice.

 

[Lane]

The other thing I don't get is why it makes my 'head tinnitus' spike as oppose to my ear tinnitus.

Hi @Alue -- I hear your frustrations. I don't know if this will make sense to you, but I think that things get very complicated when a person has head tinnitus (which I have). One hypothesis I've come up with is that it not only reacts to noise and sound levels, but to vibrations as well.

Not sure why this is, but I can't help but think that the way vibrations hit our energy fields has something to do with it. Whether it's a person's aura, or their charkas, who's to say--except a clairvorant perhaps? I just know that I can't be in any kind of environment that has any "harshness" to it, whether or not it's loud or noisy. -- Sorry to hear about your spike; I hope it gets better soon!

 

[hurtingdream]

I went to a resturant Saturday and my ears are so bad. My tinnitus is very reactive. I just don't know how to live anymore.

 

[Michael Leigh]

What I don't get is why my ears are so reactive. I had a decibel meter with me and the noise level was in the 80-85 dB range according to the meter, but one would think I would be 'safe' with earplugs. I was there for about three hours and wore earplugs + my noise cancelling headphones for more than half of it. With the NC headphones that has to be well over a 30 dB reduction.

@Alue

I am sorry to know that you are going through such a difficult time Alue and hope one day you will be able to get some professional help, with a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist who's trained in the treatment and management of tinnitus and hyperacusis. This is what I think you need for you have had these symptoms for quite some time and they do not seem to be improving.

I believe stress and anxiety caused by your tinnitus and especially the hyperacusis, has played a major role in prolonging your symptoms. This has resulted in overusing hearing protection which in most cases, will lower the loudness threshold of the auditory system. In addition to this, the constant monitoring of sound in your immediate environment using a decibel meter, only serves (in my opinion) to instil negative thinking, fear, anxiety and stress and reinforces the belief that you have a serious problem related to intolerance to sound.

All this put together can have a detrimental affect on one's quality of life. It is for this reason I think you need professional counselling, perhaps medication and sound therapy with the people that I've mentioned.

I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Kelvin]

Sorry to hear you are suffering @Alue.

I know how you feel as my hearing system too is still very sensitive and reactive at times.

I also find restaurants and bars challenging and uncomfortable.

Standing outside of your situation and 'looking-in' all I see is heightened anxiety - you have gone on a night out with earplugs inserted, noise cancelling headphones and a decibel metre. Its like you are at a heightened state of stress before you even start. Maybe this is why it has spiked ?

I believe that somehow we all have to learn to relax and live with what he have been dealt...somehow.

I fully appreciate that this is not easy.

A few recent discoveries I have made : -

1. I recently went to a pretty loud music gig ( my first since getting T ) and being a sufferer I went in with foam earplugs inserted. During the gig I actually took them out about half way through, as the actually seemed to be making my ears more sensitive. In the end I found it more comfortable standing at the back without my plugs in and coming and having few breaks during the concert. No spike.

2. I tried some Bose noise cancelling headphones that a friend lent me and these gave me a big spike in symptoms even with just the NC element on an no music input. I have learnt that NC plays white type noise back into your hearing to counteract what it hears outside the headphones.

I am sure you will find your way but I think for a lot of us relaxation, being busy, being happy, eating well and living without fear will play a big part in coming to our own peace with this beast.

Wishing some quiet soon Alue.

 

[Ed209]

Standing outside of your situation and 'looking-in' all I see is heightened anxiety - you have gone on a night out with earplugs inserted, noise cancelling headphones and a decibel metre. Its like you are at a heightened state of stress before you even start. Maybe this is why it has spiked ?

I agree with this and have experienced this kind of stress spike myself many times.

 

[Juan]

What I don't get is why my ears are so reactive. I had a decibel meter with me and the noise level was in the 80-85 dB range according to the meter, but one would think I would be 'safe' with earplugs. I was there for about three hours and wore earplugs + my noise cancelling headphones for more than half of it. With the NC headphones that has to be well over a 30 dB reduction.

There's an explanation for that: 1) cheap db meters are not accurate, so the ambient sound could be 75 or 95 dbs, you cannot know for sure, and cheap db meters tend to measure louder than normal in quiet places and lower than normal in loud places; 2) earplugs reduce sound by 30 dbs, but not the 30 dbs on top of the decibel scale. Search about the db scale and how to interpret it, because it is not linear. This means that as you go up in the scale each db added is a lot louder in volume than the previous figure, 100 dbs are many many times louder than 90 dbs, but 15 dbs are hardly louder than 10 dbs.

 

[Alue]

Sorry to hear you are suffering

Standing outside of your situation and 'looking-in' all I see is heightened anxiety - you have gone on a night out with earplugs inserted, noise cancelling headphones and a decibel metre. Its like you are at a heightened state of stress before you even start. Maybe this is why it has spiked ?

Maybe. I am very stressed with work right now too, I'm sure that doesn't help. I have developed permanent worsenings (new tones) with noise exposure in the past three years, but certainly not every spike I get is a permanent one. The delay in the spike seems to follow the same pattern as my initial acoustic trauma too (three or four days after the event). Over the weekend I felt okay, ears a little more sensitive and noises seem louder, but the spike doesn't appear till days later. Which I would think stressing about the noise exposure would cause an immediate spike if it is psychosomatic.

Comparing my ears to someone that never gets worse isn't really a fair comparison. I know you don't mean it this way, but there are a lot of people on this forum that never get worse and they just can't understand the situation when tinnitus progressively gets worse chalking it up to anxiety since they don't experience it themselves. But that's the thing I don't understand... why my ears are more fragile than most tinnitus sufferers. I know a few other people that fit into this category, but they are in the minority even here on tinnitustalk.

It's interesting the NC headphones caused a spike for you. They play the opposite wave to destruct (cancel out) the sound waves that are coming in. In theory this should make noise more safe, and they really do drown out a lot of the crowd noise. Normally if I do wear them I have earplugs underneath just in case there is something weird going on with the pressure waves.

I am sure you will find your way but I think for a lot of us relaxation, being busy, being happy, eating well and living without fear will play a big part in coming to our own peace with this beast.

I've tried to push myself to go out, I'm very busy, but my ears still hold me back a lot. I took a job where I fly a lot and pushed myself into situations I wasn't 100% comfortable with (mostly because of hearing issues). I even got to the point where my loud tinnitus didn't bother me 75% of the time (which is a huge improvement if you knew where I was two years ago) as long as it remained at the same level.

 

[Alue]

There's an explanation for that: 1) cheap db meters are not accurate, so the ambient sound could be 75 or 95 dbs, you cannot know for sure, and cheap db meters tend to measure louder than normal in quiet places and lower than normal in loud places; 2) earplugs reduce sound by 30 dbs, but not the 30 dbs on top of the decibel scale. Search about the db scale and how to interpret it, because it is not linear. This means that as you go up in the scale each db added is a lot louder in volume than the previous figure, 100 dbs are many many times louder than 90 dbs, but 15 dbs are hardly louder than 10 dbs.

I've accumulated 3 db meters over the years and they are all fairly comparable. They seem more accurate than the db apps (android). Sure, decibels are a logarithmic scale and NRRs are calculated in an ideal situation, but shouldn't the noise reduction rating just subtract from the decibel level once you do have it calculated? Noise reduction ratings aren't calculated in a linear scale either.

I have a hard time figuring what actual noise reduction and exposure you get.

 

[Julien87]

95 dB seems highly unrealistic in this kind of environment. The readings of your dB meter make sense.

Did you self medicate after this event Alue? Not trying to blame this, I am just curious.

Is it possible that the delayed spikes you mentioned on the chat are due to a period of anxiety? Did you keep worrying about a potential aggravation since that night?

I hope this spike will subside soon.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I just don't know how to live anymore.

Stop going to restaurants.

 

[Bill Bauer]

1. I recently went to a pretty loud music gig ( my first since getting T ) and being a sufferer I went in with foam earplugs inserted. During the gig I actually took them out about half way through, as the actually seemed to be making my ears more sensitive. In the end I found it more comfortable standing at the back without my plugs in and coming and having few breaks during the concert. No spike.

If you begin hitting a wall with a hammer, it will take some time before you see the other side of the wall:

The ability to recover from acoustic injury drops with increased exposure. "We don't know why, but that fact is incontrovertible," Liberman says. In other words, after the first concert, the muffling and ringing go away, and you're fine. And the same after the second. But maybe the 20th concert is the one that breaks the camel's back. "Noise risk is an incredibly complex equation."

https://www.buzzfeed.com/joycecohen...ecomes-torture?utm_term=.ri5ydaA3V#.jhyAvz1Lg

2. I tried some Bose noise cancelling headphones that a friend lent me and these gave me a big spike in symptoms even with just the NC element on an no music input. I have learnt that NC plays white type noise back into your hearing to counteract what it hears outside the headphones.

You can wear earplugs underneath NC headphones, and this ought to protect you from whatever it is NC do.

I agree with this and have experienced this kind of stress spike myself many times.

Recently, I had experienced the opposite. During and for several days following one of the most stressful days I've had in the past year, my T became quieter than the baseline.

But that's the thing I don't understand... why my ears are more fragile than most tinnitus sufferers.

How do you know that people like you are not in the majority?!

 

[Kelvin]

If you begin hitting a wall with a hammer, it will take some time before you see the other side of the wall:

All that demolition would be too loud for me @Bill Bauer. I would have to plug-up.
Loving the idea of earplugs under headphones playing NC circuits...triple protection
I actually think protection whilst understandable makes your hearing even more sensitive.
Your Rock Bill !

 

[Alue]

How do you know that people like you are not in the majority?!

I don't, but even here on Tinnitus Talk, most people are just fine with moderate noise exposure, and this forum generally attracts people with bad cases.

I do think that some people are flat out more susceptible to noise induced hearing loss and tinnitus than others. Maybe it's genetic predisposition.

 

[RingerBell]

If people accept the "gating mechanism" hypothesis, isn´t that essentially same as accepting the fact that tinnitus is a result of genetic variation. From my point of view it would be then irrational to assume that everybody has exactly the same response to same level of sound. Stress and Anxiety most likely are part of the equation, but if we could control the anxiety and stress variables, I´d guess we would still get different results for different individuals from same noise exposure.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

2) earplugs reduce sound by 30 dbs, but not the 30 dbs on top of the decibel scale. Search about the db scale and how to interpret it, because it is not linear. This means that as you go up in the scale each db added is a lot louder in volume than the previous figure, 100 dbs are many many times louder than 90 dbs, but 15 dbs are hardly louder than 10 dbs.

This is expressly NOT TRUE. The tests are carried out in the range that someone would actually wear earplugs. These tests were carried out in environments where the dB rating was 85-110 dB based on frequency.

https://www.audiologyonline.com/articles/making-the-case-for-custom-12959

 

[Bill Bauer]

I actually think protection whilst understandable makes your hearing even more sensitive.

Hasn't been my experience.

Loving the idea of earplugs under headphones playing NC circuits...triple protection

I don't think the headphones themselves provide any protection. So it would just be double protection, similar to wearing earplugs under Peltor X5A muffs.

 

[New Guy]

@Alue

I'm sorry it's been so hard for you. I haven't found the courage to try a noisy restaurant. I've done very quiet ones but if the noise level is the least bit questionable I'm gone.

I can't imagine how hard it must be to try and fit in at work with your ears being so reactive.

I hope things settle down for you soon.

 

[kmohoruk]

Stop going to restaurants.

I would disagree. You want to try and not let T drive your bus as much as possible. Most people want to be engaged with society, not sitting on the side lines.

I agree with this and have experienced this kind of stress spike myself many times.

I used to be in this same situation as well. Once I slowly reduced my stress response to sound, only then did I improve.

 

[Alue]

Stop going to restaurants.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but in my case I really didn't have much of a choice in the matter.

I don't think the headphones themselves provide any protection. So it would just be double protection, similar to wearing earplugs under Peltor X5A muffs.

Actually, I've noticed the Bose NC headphones do seem to provide some reduction even when they aren't turned on. Not as much as earmuffs, but it's a noticeable difference.

 

[Alue]

This is expressly NOT TRUE. The tests are carried out in the range that someone would actually wear earplugs. These tests were carried out in environments where the dB rating was 85-110 dB based on frequency.

https://www.audiologyonline.com/articles/making-the-case-for-custom-12959

It's interesting they state:

National Damage Risk Criteria
Figure 1 shows the breakdown of national criteria. OSHA has liberal damage risk criteria, which allows up to a third of people to sustain material hearing impairment. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) allows 8% of people to have a material hearing impairment (Prince, et al., 1997). The World Health Organization (WHO) criteria, which are the most protective and conservative, aims to eliminate any permanent threshold shift at 4 kHz.

Everyone quotes the OSHA guidelines as the gold standard for what is safe.

The World Health Organization (WHO) criteria is much more conservative:
75dbA - 8 hours
78dbA - 4 hours
81dbA - 2 hours
83dbA - 1 hour

 

[Bill Bauer]

You want to try and not let T drive your bus as much as possible. Most people want to be engaged with society, not sitting on the side lines.

Do you go on diabetes forums and tell the diabetes sufferers to eat as much cake as they want and to not bother with their insulin shots? The shots hurt and the cake tastes good - you only live once! Whatever you do, do not let diabetes drive your bus.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Alue You state that you don't have physical tinnitus which can cause many problems with headphone use. Even for some with no physical tinnitus problems, headphones can still compress many sensory nerves around the outside of the ears including the jaws.

 

[kmohoruk]

Do you go on diabetes forums and tell the diabetes sufferers to eat as much cake as they want and to not bother with their insulin shots? The shots hurt and the cake tastes good - you only live once! Whatever you do, do not let diabetes drive your bus.

Those are two different conditions, and require two different methods of treatments and alterations to your life style. You can't compare.

I will respectfully reiterate Bill. "Most people want to be engaged with society, not sitting on the side lines". There are many people with T or H who alter their life style and find ways to move forward successfully. But you know why you DON'T hear from them on here. It's because most of them have moved forward, and aren't active within TT anymore.

Which is a blessing and a curse in someways (ie. hard to get momentum towards research), but that's a topic for another day.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Those are two different conditions, and require two different methods of treatments and alterations to your life style. You can't compare.

Yes, you can. You are basically assuming that T can spike permanently only as a result of stress. This is clearly not the case for many people. You are also assuming that it is not the case that substantial fraction of T sufferers have had their ears compromised, meaning that it takes a lot less to cause problems for them compared to the healthy people. Again there is no reason to assume that, besides wishful thinking.

You choose to ignore evidence like the many posts like

I tried the 'laissez faire' approach for that first period, where I didn't let myself be bothered by most sounds, except for 80db+ (when I started plugging the ears) and still went out and did all my old activities, but that ended up costing me dearly. I had a 'spike' (if it can still be called that) that hasn't gone away.

the noise has actually got worse - a lot worse just lately as I've been exposed to a noisy office environment. Normal for everyone else but too noisy for my ears. I now have a noise like a jet engine, a rushing wind with a high-pitched whine in it.

Yeah. I am going through the same thing. Got my T to improve and go back to mild and went to a restaurant I have eaten safely at twice post T and have had the loudest spike that has, after a week, not improved at all. And my H got worse too.

I can't take it anymore. I don't want to die but at this stage the urge to stop suffering is stronger. Ps. To all members in this forum advising against so called "overprotection". I never exposed myself to sounds even remotely considered as being potentially harmful to healthy people but because of your advice I was exposed to sounds uncomfortable for me which eventually proved to be damaging.
At initial stages i was very weary about sound levels around me and used protection everytime I felt uncomfortable.
Only by reading TRT literature or some posts here I started to expose my self to sounds loud but never louder than 75-80 dB.
Whenever I was feeling like something is not right I was stupid enough to believe you these changes were part of "the natural process of healing".
Is this your healing? Every time you feel like giving this sort of advice have my case in mind.

There's also
https://www.buzzfeed.com/joycecohen/noise-kills-when-everyday-sound-becomes-torture

Recognition of the dangers of noise — which are often mischaracterized and more far-reaching than previously assumed — is "dawning a little bit but doesn't go beyond the research community so far," says Jos Eggermont, a professor at the University of Calgary in Alberta, Canada. He was stunned when his research showed that exposure to low-level noise, in amounts not generally considered harmful, caused extensive damage in the auditory cortex.

My not-yet husband emailed me because I was getting better and he was getting worse. He wanted to know my strategy. Time and silence, I told him.

Regarding a person who had committed suicide as a result of T and H:

A concert he couldn't resist. His audiologist told him earplugs were enough. They weren't. "I want to emphasize that this is entirely my own fault," Hectors wrote. "I have never been aware of the dangers."
...
The final, fatal dose of noise came during a friend's bachelor party; he wore earplugs during dinner and fled after a brief stop at the karaoke bar. His ears burned with a white-hot pain.

"Most people want to be engaged with society, not sitting on the side lines".

Most people also don't want to deal with debilitating T - what's your point?

There are many people with T or H who alter their life style and find ways to move forward successfully.

Are you saying that there are many people with T or H who Do NOT alter their lifestyle? I am the one who is arguing for altering one's lifestyle as a result of T.

But you know why you DON'T hear from them on here. It's because most of them have moved forward, and aren't active within TT anymore.

This is like saying that it is ok to drink and drive because for every drunk driver who kills someone, there are many people who drink, drive, and are ok, and you never read about them in the newspaper.

 

[kmohoruk]

Bill, I feel like you're putting words in my mouth through what your preceive as "assumptions".

It's true alterations do have to be made, but not to the level that I've often seen reflected in your posts (don't go to restaurants for example). Alternations do need to be made (protection when needed, realizing sound is important for the auditory system at an appropriate levels etc...), but often people can still live a happy and healthy life.

You are right, there are people who do have further difficulties with their T and H - some have been tragic. However there are also many people who were present on this forum when I joined 4 years ago who are now doing well and have moved on with their lives - with T only being a small part of it. You can often see their stories in the "Success" section of the forum.

At the end of the day we all need to do what is best for our own ears. For that, there are many different strategies. But the goal is often the same, for the individual to get some form of normalcy back.

 

[RingerBell]

The World Health Organization (WHO) criteria is much more conservative:
75dbA - 8 hours
78dbA - 4 hours
81dbA - 2 hours
83dbA - 1 hour

EU is also a bit more conservative. In European union, EU-Directive 2003/10/EC sets the lower action limit value to LEX,8h to 80dB(A) and Lcpeak to 135dB(C). One of the actions that needs to be taken when one of these lower action limit values is exceeded is to provide the hearing protectors for the workers.

More can be read from this link:
https://oshwiki.eu/wiki/Noise#Noise_assessment_in_accordance_with_the_EU-Directive_2003.2F10.2FEC

 

[PDodge]

Bill, I feel like you're putting words in my mouth through what your preceive as "assumptions".

It's true alterations do have to be made, but not to the level that I've often seen reflected in your posts (don't go to restaurants for example). Alternations do need to be made (protection when needed, realizing sound is important for the auditory system at an appropriate levels etc...), but often people can still live a happy and healthy life.

You are right, there are people who do have further difficulties with their T and H - some have been tragic. However there are also many people who were present on this forum when I joined 4 years ago who are now doing well and have moved on with their lives - with T only being a small part of it. You can often see their stories in the "Success" section of the forum.

At the end of the day we all need to do what is best for our own ears. For that, there are many different strategies. But the goal is often the same, for the individual to get some form of normalcy back.

From what I've see a lot of member are here for 2 to 5 years and don't return. Hopefully someday none of us need to return

 

[Jazzer]

But the goal is often the same, for the individual to get some form of normalcy back.

Bill is so right.
The vital criteria is to avoid all further damage!

 

[Jazzer]

"If you can't take the heat
(ie. don't want the noise)
Stay out of the kitchen."
(Sod the noisy restaurant.)

And if you feel you must go, for reasons of family, keep those ear plugs well in.
And if it's too loud, even so, apologise and bloodywell leave.
Your health (life) is more important than any family gathering.
Noise does the damage.
Stress - much less so IMNSHO.