I Lost My Respect and Faith in Doctors or Modern Medicine

[yaom]

I got vertigo three months ago, it's EVERYDAY the same story, this spinning and tinnitus!

a feeling of me being pushed to the side, or backwards, or forwards... plus that BZZZZZZZZZZ

Go to GP that same week I got vertigo and he told me it must be muscle tension, so he sent me to a kinesiologist who does nothing other than stretch my shoulder (I do it all the time at home without having to pay 75 dollars for a session), he prescribed me betahistine who did absolutely nothing for me!

since nothing worked go back to GP, he can't do anything for me so he sent me to an ENT... the ENT does some maneuvers and don't know where I have vertigo because I have no nystagmus (eye movement), so send me home and gives me a follow up appointment FOR TWO MONTHS LATER!!!! TWO MONTHS!!!! I am 12 days from reaching the TWO DAMN MONTHS!!!

being anxious and suicidal I made an appointment with a neurologist who sees me, and decides to give me an MRI and a follow up for a MONTH LATER, wait patiently thru christmas.... MRI comes, then today is the appointment, go to the hospital to find that my appointment was moved FOR ANOTHER MONTH!!!!


so basically yes, fuck me and my spinning (they;ll bill you quickly though), but go home wait and don't worry about it.... your quality of life is shit and mental peace if gone, but who cares whats important is that the bills from the hospital come to the right address!!!

so yeah

let me guess.... my next appointment in A MONTH is probably gonna be as productive...... go home and then come see me again in what? three months??? four???? but please do make sure we have your right info so we can bill you... IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY MONEY MONEY GIVE IT TO ME!!!

i am tired and do not want to see a doctor ever again in my life!!!

if this vertigo turns out to be some stroke, brain tumor, cancer i am to the point where I honestly do not care anymore, if i am going to die please let me die but stop this WAITING GAME WITH ME OVERPAID KNOW IT ALLS!

sorry but I really need to vent, they have no right to make me wait all thru christmas and january to then tell me my appointment was moved and he'll see me in a month!!!

 

[Champ]

yaom a lot of us here have dealt with the same frustration you have. I've been to 5 ENTs looking for help with my eustachian tube issues (which started a little bit before my tinnitus did). They all do the same routine - light in ear, light in nose, ask me a couple questions, charge me and send me home. They all tell me tinnitus is incurable (I knew that already doc, I told you I knew that!!) and its obvious they assume I came for the tinnitus, even though I'll explicitly state I want help with eustachian tube issues.

It's mind bogglingly frustrating. Still, they are the ones who own the equipment we need to use, so we're bound to the inefficiencies in their field. You are not alone in your frustrations friend.

 

[Viktor Salvatore]

Yaom. I know your pain. Champ knows it. So many others know it both on this board and all over the world. Doctors are selfish people in my opinion. All they care about is their business and bank accounts. They are all over each other to out do the next. They don't care about you or me. As you said Yaom......they send you home and won't forget to charge you for nothing.

Where else do you get nothing and have to pay for it but with the doctor's office. What a racket. Reminds me of a movie i watched years ago...a western....where a man did not have enough money to pay for medicine his wife would need to prevent her from dieing. He pleaded withthe local town doctor to provide the medicine as he had plenty of it. The man even said he would work it off for him and pay him back...and the docto said...sorry pal...no money...can't help your wife....not my fault. That is your doctor my friends. They get into the profession for the wrong reasons.....not to help you or me or save us but to be rich and famous. Skunks!

 

[yaom]

it is just unbelievably frustrating... I don't even expect tinnitus to dissapear and honestly i don't care much, I probably just get used to it and ignore it.

Vertigo on the other hand has been devastating to me though, at this point I think I'll feel dizzy for the rest of my live because I don't think doctors care or know or even bother or probably technology just is primitive (can put a man on the moon, can land on a comet, can't figure out why someone has vertigo or why ears ring)... I mean honestly

the internet is FULL of research and literature about diseases and so on, at this point I probably know more about vertigo than most doctors!!!

I want a diagnosis so I can follow a plan of action, its not so much about getting rid of these symptoms, its about RESPECT, don't treat me like a number or like some other cash cow whose disease will let you afford your next BMW!!!

see me, diagnose me with whatever you think I have and let me go my way..... if its something not curable then tell me, and let me go home where I can scream and cry and moan until I get over it, and then modify my life around it....
but DO NOT MAKE ME WAIT FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS JUST SO YOU CAN SEE ME FOR FIVE MINUTES OR DO SOME 10 MINUTE TESTING AND THEN TELL ME SOMETHING I ALREADY KNOW AND THEN ASK ME TO DO ANOTHER FOLLOW UP FOR THE NEXT 6 MONTHS TO SEE HOW THINGS TURN OUT.

AND OF COURSE, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOUR ADDRESS IS CORRECT SO WE CAN BILL YOU!

 

[Telis]

I have lost faith as well. My experience was more like-oh your ear is plugged...here try this ototoxic drug, if that doesn't help we will try lots others, and oh take some OTC ototoxic meds as well. My slightly blocked ear turned into screaming T, a ton of hearing loss along with H! Thanks doctors! My general health is slipping now because of T, now they own me! Crafty!

 

[marqualler]

I agree with your frustrations about modern medicine. I've found a pretty good balance for managing tinnitus and other ENT issues here though. I went through two ENTs until I found one that a) really does a good job listening to me and b) is able to answer questions over the phone. I had one that took questions via an online portal, which I found not all that helpful when you want to have a real conversation (and often those questions ended up being fielded by the doctor's staff and not the doctor) whereas my current ENT will take a phone call from me if I call the office, often that very day. There isn't honestly much they can do about things like Eustachian tube issues or Tinnitus unless there is a procedure they can do quickly, so I also think there is some communication you need to get in with the doctor if you have real questions about things like that. For me, I was skeptical that doing procedures like cleaning off the eardrum would do anything for Tinnitus, but I found that since my ENT took off some debris left over from my ear infection, my Tinnitus actually has gotten less reactive and bothersome. It is frustrating, but for me finding the right doctor has made a big difference.

 

[undecided]

All that ENTs and GPs can do is take a look at your ear and maybe give you some ear drops or nasal spray.
There is no way for them to find out what the hell is going on.
Their fault? Maybe. But it is unfortunate that even modern medicine does not have the imaging methods required to get a complete picture of whats happening inside the inner ear - except maybe detecting an acousting neuroma or a very profound vascular problem.

My suggestion would be to never again bother with ENTs or GPs (if you didn't get a diagnosis the first time) unless you have a common cold. Waste of time and money.
For tinnitus and vertigo, you should get the opinion of a neuro-otologist if you happen to know a good one.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Doctors are selfish people in my opinion. All they care about is their business and bank accounts. They are all over each other to out do the next. They don't care about you or me. As you said Yaom......they send you home and won't forget to charge you for nothing ... They get into the profession for the wrong reasons.....not to help you or me or save us but to be rich and famous. Skunks!

Good to know. I'll keep that in mind.

stephen nagler

 

[yaom]

I don't mind the tinnitus, but I cannot cope with the pulling, pushing, falling sideways feeling I get with vertigo, I saw an ENT, a neurologist, a GP and none of them even bothered to order a blood test.

I asked the ENT, could it be lyme? and she was like I don't know, we'll see.... and then I go like, so can I get a blood test? her reply... oh yeah yeah sure!

 

[RicoS]

Took me 2 months to finaly find a doctor to help me with my anxiety and panicattacks...going to see him/her next thursday....I have been calling for 2 months. Sometimes on their website they have a CALL ME BACK button...So I pressed that and filled in my phonenumber.....I'm still waiting to get called back .... did that 3 times...than some woman calls me finaly....asking me if I have been called back... I said no you are calling me right now...she said : yes but I only call to check if you have been called back. She says you will be called back tomorrow. She said that wednesday Today is friday ... Lucky me I have finaly an appointment with somebody else.
But I also feel that some doctors just do not care and you are just a number to them. I know you cannot be emotionaly attached to every patient, but still...it sucks becaus you get the feeling you are not being taken seriously.

There are good doctors and bad ones ....you just have to find the right one

 

[carlover]

I expect Drs sigh when they know the next patient has Tinnitus ,they cannot do Sweet fanny Adams for you believe me ive been there got the T shirt,,,,,,my final port of call was the neurotology dept of the biggest ear nose and throat hospital in London they said " are you feeling suicidal?" me " no"............ and that was that ,they do all sorts of test which come up normal and you are signed off,

Waste of time,

 

[Joe Blow]

I'm new to the forum, but I don't understand why people go to the doctor for Tinnitus. It's pretty clear that there's no current cure, right?

 

[RicoS]

I expect Drs sigh when they know the next patient has Tinnitus ,they cannot do Sweet fanny Adams for you believe me ive been there got the T shirt,,,,,,my final port of call was the neurotology dept of the biggest ear nose and throat hospital in London they said " are you feeling suicidal?" me " no"............ and that was that ,they do all sorts of test which come up normal and you are signed off,

Waste of time,

I said I had suicidal thought (not that I would do it) ...than they said....we do not have experience with tinnitus and suicidal thoughts ...you better look somewhere else for help.... That was 1.5 years ago....that realy got me down. They should be careful what they tell you.
People came up to me and told me.... my girlfriends father also had Tinnitus ...I said good since he had it what did he do to make it stop. She said...he killed himself. Well I said thank you for sharing this with me in my darkest times.

Also somebody came up to me at work and told me.....my god this girl told me you have severe tinnitus....I'm so sorry for you (so far so good I thought). Than she said... If I had it I would kill myself because I would not stand it for a minute.... do you have these feelings also Rico...do you want to kill yourself. (Than I thought...no not now...but I want to kill you). People feel better when somebody has something they do not have so they can feel better for themself.
Sometimes people talk to you not to help you but to feel better for them self.

At the end of the day your the one with the T and anxiety and all that comes with it and you have to deal with it. It does not matter if somebody else got T .... you are your own person and have to deal with it all by yourself.

You have to learn to live with it... I thought it was impossible but I did and I do not care anymore.....just have to get rid of this depression and anxiety.

 

[Richard Wallace]

Yaom, I think most of us here are very frustrated after going to various doctors and not getting much of any results. It's ok to vent my friend, just know that you're not alone. I'm not picking on any specific type of doctor, but last year I saw 2 Ent's and Neurologist. The neurologist was at least digging and trying to help me. The ENT's on the other hand, neither one addressed my ears. They should just be called NT's for nose and throat. They didn't seem to know squat about ear stuff and didn't really seem to have any bedside manner. Hang in there my friend.......... Rich

Also, I was 4 years old when they sent the first man to the moon. They could do that. You would think after all these years that the medical establishment would have cures for a lot of things, even for like the common cold. I'm not being crazy here but I thinking there are a lot of cures for things out there. The problem is if we were cured of different diseases and afflictions a lot of people/companies would be out of jobs and big money. There's residual $$$$$$ in treating peoples afflictions instead of curing them. That's very sad. Just my thoughts............. Rich

 

[Carlos1]

I said I had suicidal thought (not that I would do it) ...than they said....we do not have experience with tinnitus and suicidal thoughts ...you better look somewhere else for help.... That was 1.5 years ago....that realy got me down. They should be careful what they tell you.
People came up to me and told me.... my girlfriends father also had Tinnitus ...I said good since he had it what did he do to make it stop. She said...he killed himself. Well I said thank you for sharing this with me in my darkest times.

Also somebody came up to me at work and told me.....my god this girl told me you have severe tinnitus....I'm so sorry for you (so far so good I thought). Than she said... If I had it I would kill myself because I would not stand it for a minute.... do you have these feelings also Rico...do you want to kill yourself. (Than I thought...no not now...but I want to kill you). People feel better when somebody has something they do not have so they can feel better for themself.
Sometimes people talk to you not to help you but to feel better for them self.

At the end of the day your the one with the T and anxiety and all that comes with it and you have to deal with it. It does not matter if somebody else got T .... you are your own person and have to deal with it all by yourself.

You have to learn to live with it... I thought it was impossible but I did and I do not care anymore.....just have to get rid of this depression and anxiety.

Rico some people are absolute idiots when my T started I told people and they'd say the most *ucked up things to me t00. I stopped telling people I have T I don't want to hear "oh god I could never live with that" gee thanks.
Your right its a lonely battle

 

[Joe Blow]

Well, like I said, my wife had ringing in her ears and was complaining about it, so I played her the sound I hear all the time. She couldn't stand it after about two seconds. But, honestly, you do get used to it.

 

[jeannie]

yes we have all been there, sorry and hope they get your vertigo cleared up for you! did they send you to a physical therapist? sometimes they can do something to put the crystal back where it should be?just a thought.

 

[Champ]

Good to know. I'll keep that in mind.

stephen nagler

Personally, it's extremely satisfying to see you post on this website, since it shows an active interest in what you do. I'm a programmer so you can bet I read programming blogs and stay up to date on the latest information. I just wish more doctors would do that... but unless there's some test they have to take to show they're up to date on the latest information, we can only assume the knowledge they graduated with is the knowledge level they're staying at.

You're definitely not representative of many modern doctors unfortunately... you being here is a great sign towards your attitude to learn. Still, I feel like that is changing slowly now that more docs are realizing that being connected, even if just online, to those with these conditions is a great idea to learn more themselves.

 

[Champ]

I said I had suicidal thought (not that I would do it) ...than they said....we do not have experience with tinnitus and suicidal thoughts ...you better look somewhere else for help.... That was 1.5 years ago....that realy got me down. They should be careful what they tell you.
People came up to me and told me.... my girlfriends father also had Tinnitus ...I said good since he had it what did he do to make it stop. She said...he killed himself. Well I said thank you for sharing this with me in my darkest times.

Also somebody came up to me at work and told me.....my god this girl told me you have severe tinnitus....I'm so sorry for you (so far so good I thought). Than she said... If I had it I would kill myself because I would not stand it for a minute.... do you have these feelings also Rico...do you want to kill yourself. (Than I thought...no not now...but I want to kill you). People feel better when somebody has something they do not have so they can feel better for themself.
Sometimes people talk to you not to help you but to feel better for them self.

At the end of the day your the one with the T and anxiety and all that comes with it and you have to deal with it. It does not matter if somebody else got T .... you are your own person and have to deal with it all by yourself.

You have to learn to live with it... I thought it was impossible but I did and I do not care anymore.....just have to get rid of this depression and anxiety.

Holy shit man, that is a ridiculous story. I'm sorry you had to go through with that.

I had one friend who told me he'd kill himself if he had tinnitus hahah. Pretty screwed up, but I definitely had some similarly dark moments to you so I knew what his point was. I'm lucky because my dad has had tinnitus for 20+ years and told me he got over it in a week. He is one tough bastard. Me, however...

 

[Viktor Salvatore]

Dr. Nagler. Please don't take it personally. I apologize. I definetly wish i toned down my adreline with that posting. yes..it was overdone. You are an exception as you take time to deal with us. Can you blame us for feeling like we have leoparcy? The medical community has no knowledge to date to help us. As a poster said above...we landed on the moon, then mars and now a commet. And we can't get to this issue let alone recognize the severity of it?

Again, i apologize for my post. Markku...if your reading this or if someone can get a hold of him, please remove my post. Dr....Nagler in kind fasion...if you can remove your reference to it that would be helpful. I'll be sure to be more sensible next time i post.

Thank you Dr. Nagler and others for your kind understanding.

 

[yaom]

Not all doctors are the same, I am new to this site so I am not familiar with Dr. Nagler from what I see he is much more willing to reach out

the thing is today I have had enough of this!!!

I get sick go to doctor in october with vertigo, and after seeing an ENT and a neurologist all I get is some testing, no diagnosis and told to go home and make follow ups which they gave for two months later (they sure billed me that same week though) and where do I stand? well pray is nothing serious and wait!!! just shut up watch your life go to shit and wait til the magic fucking day of the appointment comes!!! (I really had enough)

So I wait patiently thru christmas and january suffering from anxiety attacks, panic, vertigo that will NOT GO AWAY, tinnitus that keeps me up sometimes! and when appointment time comes, they kindly tell u they moved the appointment for next month

I think is just a lack of empathy, respect!!!

I was watching a video of some doctor who came up with some vertigo maneuver (that doesnt work for me because I don't think I have classical vertigo, I have something else) and she goes like, oh i came up with this maneuver because one day I woke up with vertigo and its awful!! (she finally felt empathy I guess)

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Personally, it's extremely satisfying to see you post on this website, since it shows an active interest in what you do.

Thank you for the kind words, but most doctors I know have an active interest in what they do.

I'm a programmer so you can bet I read programming blogs and stay up to date on the latest information. I just wish more doctors would do that...

I take continuing education courses for that - just like most every other licensed physician in the land. Such courses are available both in-person and on-line.

but unless there's some test they have to take to show they're up to date on the latest information, we can only assume the knowledge they graduated with is the knowledge level they're staying at.

Continuing education is a requirement for licensing and for MOC (Maintenance of Certification).

You're definitely not representative of many modern doctors unfortunately... you being here is a great sign towards your attitude to learn.

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I'm not here to learn. Sure, every once in a while I pick up a pearl or two, for which I am truly grateful. But I am primarily here to give, not to learn. And as to the reason more docs do not do what I do in helping out on support sites, that has much more to do with the rudeness and insolence that typically runs rampant on such sites than to a lack of interest on their part. Whenever I ask my colleagues why they do not want to get more involved, I am met with pretty much the same response. "Why bother, when all they do is argue and insult."

I am not passing judgement here. Just telling it like it is.

Stephen M. Nagler
M.D., Northwestern University School of Medicine 1975
Board Certified, Re-Certified, Re-Re-Certified, and (last year) Re-Re-Re-Certified

 

[yaom]

Dr. Nagler I hope my thread doesnt stop you from coming here and answering questions and helping folks who need help with tinnitus!!

but please understand what I am going thru!!! I am beyond frustrated, tired of feeling anxious, panicky, scared!

can you answer me as professional.... why do follow ups are given so far in advance? or is it me? what if its an emergency and the patient's life is compromised by making him/her wait months?

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Dr. Nagler I hope my thread doesnt stop you from coming here and answering questions and helping folks who need help with tinnitus!!

It's not stopping me. I just think that the notion that I or any other knowledgeable and experienced clinician would participate on a lay Internet message board primarily to learn (as suggested earlier in this thread) is rather short-sighted.

but please understand what I am going thru!!! I am beyond frustrated, tired of feeling anxious, panicky, scared!

That is precisely why I am here.

can you answer me as professional.... why do follow ups are given so far in advance? or is it me? what if its an emergency and the patient's life is compromised by making him/her wait months?

Well, I do not know how it works in your country - but when I give a follow-up appointment three months in advance to one of my patients, that appointment comes with the understanding that if a true life-threatening emergency arises, the patient will contact me earlier or go to an emergency facility for help.

stephen nagler

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Again, i apologize for my post. Markku...if your reading this or if someone can get a hold of him, please remove my post. Dr....Nagler in kind fasion...if you can remove your reference to it that would be helpful. I'll be sure to be more sensible next time i post.

I'd prefer to leave things as is. I didn't take you literally and was not in any way offended by your post. I fully realize it was your frustration speaking. But that said, you did open a fruitful avenue for discussion.

stephen nagler

 

[yaom]

can vertigo stay forever? I wonder if I just need to suck it up and move on, from all the literature I read it seems as if it's something transient... but mine is now 12 weeks and counting!

I guess it'll be like asthma or tinnitus (something for life)

 

[Jeff M.]

@yaom Dude, don't apologize for venting your frustrations at the medical community, or at anything or anyone here on TT!! That is partially why it exists!! Those of us with T (and you with vertigo) NEED a place to go and vent to people who are going through or have gone through the same gnarly sh*#!! If you don't let out your frustrations here, you will somewhere or on someone else!! Do it here, we get it man!! I too dumped buckets of $$$ and time into seeking answers to my severe T from dr's, ENT's Audiologists, etc.... and only received frustration as well. So, I don't know if misery loves company, but you've got a crew with you now!!

Stay connected, get stabilized, and hang in there bro! I really hope the vertigo passes!! Make sure you are eating right, getting proper sleep, and exercising when you can. Try to normalize your life as much as possible (which I know is a bitch when the room is spinning!!, I get it). I hope you find relief soon and in the meantime please feel free to post!!~

Jeff

 

[Ken219]

Imiagine my chagrin when I found out where my doctor received the degree.
I voted them the worst ENT.
MEDICAL SCHOOL
Universidad Central Del Este (Uce), Facultad De Medicina
Graduated in1981

 

[Ken219]

@yaom I have T for many years. Last May my T worsen and vertigo. I went to an ENT who was very nice. He gave me steriods and water pills. My T is still raging but 4 weeks after, the vertigo was gone. Not comfortable.

 

[yaom]

@yaom I have T for many years. Last May my T worsen and vertigo. I went to an ENT who was very nice. He gave me steriods and water pills. My T is still raging but 4 weeks after, the vertigo was gone. Not comfortable.

why can't i get something like that? some steroids, a shot of something in my ears... people on the net talk about getting some water test in their ears, some hearing test I get nothing, balance test to see where vertigo is coming from.

this bitch goes like oh yeah, well yeah I see you have vertigo, and yes I am an ENT

puts goggles on me, then gets me a blood test because I asked for it, she probably wouldn't have ordered it on her own

then is puzzled because i don't have nystagmus and gives me an appointment for two months later, my blood test came back and some things are messed up and NOT A DAMN PHONE CALL TO READ MY RESULTS.... the only reason I know I had some issues in the blood test is because I couldn't take it and went to the hospital and had the secretary print the results, then I asked her to see if I can get someone to explain them to me, and she goes like oh yeah the ENT will on your next appointment!!!

for all I know I could have cancer!!! lyme disease!! something that needs some damn treatment

then this neurologist see me, orders an MRI, get the MRI and gives me an appointment for a month later, then the month comes and they go like oh yeah we moved your appointment for next month, never mind calling you.

on top of that my tinnitus sounds like blood rushing, at times it turns pulsatile and I just heart my heartbeat on my left ear... I found something called vertebrobasilar insufficiency that can give you a stroke and the symptoms are vertigo and tinnitus.... so yeah I'll wait I guess so the two mighty assholes can see me

but hey, within a week of seeing both I had their bills in my mailbox! that they'll mail in a heartbeat!