IGF1 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor 1) as SSHL Salvage Treatment

[JohnAdams]

How did you come to find and trust this clinic

I found out about it on a thread on this website.

I found his patent and read it and saw that he was using PRP and then I found a couple of medical journal publications that implicated something called IGF-1 in sensory hair cell regeneration and IGF-1 is in PRP. This made sense to me because growth factors in platelets are what heals wounds in the first place.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platelet-rich_plasma
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25937136
https://www.researchgate.net/public...n_the_Progression_of_Age-Related_Hearing_Loss

I also found out that he was treating anosmia and I assumed and later verified that he was using PRP in that treatment. I found another article, strangely, in the International Tinnitus Journal that showed that PRP injections into the nose can regenerate olfactory sensory epithelium and restore smelling. The stem cells in the nose for that are LGR5+ progenitors, the same type that are in our cochlea that drugs like FX-322 are targeting to regenerate cochlear hair cells.

http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/articles/anosmia-treatment-by-platelet-rich-plasma-injection.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4051978/

Dr. Shim was treating anosmia with PRP a full year before that article was published.

Basically, there is ample evidence that IGF-1 can target and regenerate cochlear hair cells. If you decide to go to Korea please keep us updated. If you need any advice about how to get around or navigate the train just message me and I can advise.

I stayed here:
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/16534151?guests=1&adults=1

It's a 15 minute walk to the clinic from there and there's a big supermarket and some really good restaurants very nearby.

How long after T did you start your treatment?

10 months.

 

[Little Lamb]

Thank you JohnAdams for your reply. I see no reason to not do this so if I can get the funds and I definitely will keep everyone here informed. I just hope this guy is not injecting saline. ‍

If you decide to go to Korea please keep us updated. If you need any advice about how to get around or navigate the train just message me and I can advise.

Thanks for this! I've never been to an east Asian country but I assume it's fairly easy to get around Seoul with English..

 

[JohnAdams]

I just hope this guy is not injecting saline

Oh it's definitely not saline. He even let me activate my own PRP one time. You can see your PRP or marrow in the syringe when he brings it in. Sometimes it drains down your eustachian tubes and you can't swallow, you have to spit it up and you can taste it.

Seoul with English..

Yeah you'd think so. You'll need a translator app on your phone and something called the Naver app to get around.
I'd also try and learn a few Korean phrases like, excuse me, thank you, hello, goodbye, etc.

 

[XDR]

Hi there! I just read the IGF-1 study you referred to and contacted the research designer to ask if he thinks doctors in Japan would be willing to do this treatment.

I'm not hopeful for a reply so could you point me in the right direction for obtaining the IGF-1? I don't plan on injecting it into my ears and will of course exercise caution with the dosing.

I haven't read about the other drugs you mentioned but would probably also be willing to give them a go.

Thanks for sharing and good luck!

Did you read the paper? This is for treatment of SSHL, not tinnitus.

Recovery rate was low and within the 60% of use of Prednisone close to the time of injury. Even so the good audiograms had little improvement and nothing you would call a recovery. Tinnitus had little to no improvement.

IGF-1 can get from anti-aging clinics, then script is sent to a compounding Pharmacy. So it's Pharma grade stuff. To be honest it will help your mental state and physical state but it is not a cure. I've done 3 high dose courses that body builders would take since the initial post. I've put on heaps of muscle and look 10 years younger than I am now, lot of aches and pains I had are gone. So I do it from that point of view.

I remember when I got SSHL I had huge nose bleeds indicating a blood vessel rupture. As I said, cure is microsurgery not anything you inject or take. Heaps of snake oil being promoted as cures but nothing with a sound scientific basis for it to work.

! I've never been to an east Asian country but I assume it's fairly easy to get around Seoul with English..

I'd strongly advice against it. If you're doing to do any medical treatment do it from an accredited treatment facility in a country with a regulated medical industry. Also there is no guarantee what they give it is what you asked for, there is scope for serious problems being caused by unscrupulous "doctors" with an online degree. Asia is a scammer's paradise.

 

[JohnAdams]

Did you read the paper? This is for treatment of SSHL, not tinnitus.

Yes, the target population of this study was patients with SSHL, but that doesn't mean they ruled out that it could treat chronic hearing loss. They speculated that the action was from hair cell regeneration, which would more than likely help in chronic cases too. Also, tinnitus is a symptom of hearing loss in most cases so treating hearing loss, whether it be acute or chronic will likely cure tinnitus.

Tinnitus had little to no improvement.

I just read and searched all the papers you have posted and I didn't see any discussion whatsoever about whether or not there was any affect on tinnitus except that 2 patients complained of an exacerbation of tinnitus that went away during the observation period. If you can cite this that would be great.

but it is not a cure. I've done 3 high dose courses that body builders would take since the initial post.

These studies involve direct injections of IGF-1 into the middle ear through the eardrum and you did not do that.

If you're doing to do any medical treatment do it from an accredited treatment facility in a country with a regulated medical industry. Also there is no guarantee what they give it is what you asked for, there is scope for serious problems being caused by unscrupulous "doctors" with an online degree. Asia is a scammer's paradise.

"doctors" with an online degree

I went to the clinic in question. It is accredited and Dr. Shim is a licensed ENT. South Korea is a very wealthy and advanced country and their medical industry regulated. What he treats you with is exactly what he says it is. He even let me participate in the preparation of my own PRP.

So if you'll quote that paper where it says there was no improvement in tinnitus that would be super.

 

[Little Lamb]

@JohnAdams thanks for your reply! Good to hear this guy is the real deal. I double checked his credentials and all is good there.

Even though I really want to go to Korea I'm going to start calling around mexican prp and ent clinics and see if I can find a doctor willing to do this there. I don't work so taking advantage of a good exchange rate might be my only option in getting treatment.
I'm also going to see if I can convince someone to inject neurotrophin 3. It's already being utilized for other human applications so I do think it may be possible to use off label . Have you looked into this or did you ask the Korean doctor? You're so up on research I'd be surprised if you didn't!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5187781/

 

[JohnAdams]

I'm going to start calling around mexican prp and ent clinics and see if I can find a doctor willing to do this there.

Nice. Keep us posted on what you find.

Have you looked into this or did you ask the Korean doctor?

I know about NT-3 but I didn't ask him about it. ​

 

[Little Lamb]

@XDR Thanks for your reply!

I second what JohnAdams said about sshl. Since my tinnitus is from noise damage and SSHL is usually also from noise damage, you can hypothesize that the tinnitus from noise damage can also be helped as usually tinnitus is a side effect of the damage that causes SSHL.

Same with the PRP. If you fix the damage that is causing deafness you will fix the other side effects such as tinnitus.

As for the mental relief you speak of from getting IGF-1 injections, I'd rather be able to calm myself at will through mind training, but I know exactly what you mean as I felt this same peace of mind when I went for HBOT. I wasn't able to get into the hospital for the high pressure treatment but there is a mild HBOT treatment center in my city. I felt good knowing that I was at least trying and that it might be helping however how small the effect.

As for the scammers, I'm not easily victim to this as I'm adept at research and critical thinking. Yay.

Tell me how were the side effects of IGF-1? If it increases appetite I'm in. I've lost 20 lbs since becoming ill with PTSD. Will do anything to bulk up...

 

[Little Lamb]

Nice. Keep us posted on what you find.

I will. I will also make a post asking for some collaboration in this endeavor. Surely many people here could be helped if we can get more ENTs on board and with more help the process can go more quickly... I'm thinking I might have to make 200 phone calls and emails but I'm sure if there are no legal barriers I will succeed.

 

[JohnAdams]

I will. I will also make a post asking for some collaboration in this endeavor. Surely many people here could be helped if we can get more ENTs on board and with more help the process can go more quickly... I'm thinking I might have to make 200 phone calls and emails but I'm sure if there are no legal barriers I will succeed.

I'm soon going to write up a paper about all of this. I will post it for everyone else to share.

 

[Little Lamb]

I'm soon going to write up a paper about all of this. I will post it for everyone else to share.

Very nice! I'm eager to get this going... if we mobilize the people here to work together I'm sure we will be fruitful.

 

[XDR]

@XDR Thanks for your reply!

Since my tinnitus is from noise damage and SSHL is usually also from noise damage, you can hypothesize that the tinnitus from noise damage can also be helped as usually tinnitus is a side effect of the damage that causes SSHL

SSHL is from burst artery going to the ear, not noise damage. I had tinnitus before but it was low, when I got SSHL I had massive noise bleeds, then pretty bad tinnitus. Was due to high BP, not any physical trauma. As for tinnitus being linked, I cannot positively say. I have SSHL in one ear and normal tinnitus in the other, both are still present after 3 courses of IGF1 and CJC1295.

@XDR If you fix the damage that is causing deafness you will fix the other side effects such as tinnitus.

Again I cannot positively say but I what can say all treatments are unproven. So far I see all hopes and dreams, snake oil. No solid scientific basis for treatments proposed. This was the best one at the time, it made sense when I did literature search and even then it was a long shot. Even so I can say that it didn't work, neither for my SSHL in one ear nor for tinnitus in the other.

@XDR As for the mental relief you speak of from getting IGF-1 injections, I'd rather be able to calm myself at will through mind training, but I know exactly what you mean as I felt this same peace of mind when I went for HBOT. I wasn't able to get into the hospital for the high pressure treatment but there is a mild HBOT treatment center in my city. I felt good knowing that I was at least trying and that it might be helping however how small the effect.

Mental state is important, as well as hope. But don't let that hope do stupid things and bet everything on black because some witch doctor in Asia is promising a cure compounded with internet bandwagon effect by simpletons who are so desperate for a cure they will believe any BS.

If they have a solid scientifically proven treatment, there is no reason why you can't replicate it in your home country with your own doctor. If it can't then it's BS. I had several doctors here that were intrigued and helped review this treatment with me including several ENTs.

@XDR As for the scammers, I'm not easily victim to this as I'm adept at research and critical thinking. Yay.

Tell me how were the side effects of IGF-1? If it increases appetite I'm in. I've lost 20 lbs since becoming ill with ptsd. Will do anything to bulk up...

That's good, read proper academic papers rather than swell on the internet to give you a clearer picture and based on that knowledge can critique any proposed treatments.

Side effect, I ate like a body builder! I stack on muscle without lifting anything. Then in second course I got back to the gym with it it. Honestly can't say I had any negative side effects, I slept better, had more energy, much happier, stronger, looked younger. Even now when I meet colleagues I haven't seen in years they say I look the same as they remember me over 7 years ago.

 

[JohnAdams]

SSHL is from burst artery going to the ear, not noise damage.

That's just one of the causes and the root cause of many of them are damage to the hair cells, which overlaps with noise induced hearing loss.

I have SSHL in one ear and normal tinnitus in the other, both are still present after 3 courses of IGF1 and CJC1295.

You didn't have IGF-1 injected into your eardrum, therefore what you did is completely irrelevant to any of these studies that have been posted.

No solid scientific basis for treatments proposed.

Except multiple peer reviewed articles with one citing human clinical trials involving 100's of human patients? Mmmkay... If you say so captain.

Even so I can say that it didn't work, neither for my SSHL in one ear nor for tinnitus in the other.

Once again, because you didn't have it injected into your eardrum.

because some witch doctor in Asia is promising a cure compounded with internet bandwagon effect by simpletons who are so desperate for a cure they will believe any BS.

So I'm a simpleton? Thanks. I actually went there and had this treatment and I have had a major improvement in my level of tinnitus, and my overall quality of life.

And you still haven't quoted any of these papers where you have claimed that there was no improvement in tinnitus.

Looks to me like you're just trying to deliberately spread misinformation for some odd reason.

 

[Aleksa Uzunovic]

JohnAdams, did IGF-1 help you with your hearing as well? If it's really potent as you say, I wouldn't mind having 10-15 injections per ear if it's going to get my hearing back to 100%.

 

[JohnAdams]

JohnAdams, did IGF-1 help you with your hearing as well? If it's really potent as you say, I wouldn't mind having 10-15 injections per ear if it's going to get my hearing back to 100%.

No. I did not have pure IGF-1 injected into me, just PRP and bone marrow which contain growth factors including IGF-1.

 

[just1morething]

I'm soon going to write up a paper about all of this. I will post it for everyone else to share.

Wouldn't you possibly want to wait a while longer in case your improvement doesn't last? Just to make sure it's a permanent fix and not a temporary one. Don't get me wrong, I hope it is permanent and am happy for you that your quality of life is back.

 

[Robert Aleman]

I want to try this but I'm scared of needles. Don't know how I'll be able to inject this into myself without fainting.

 

[JohnAdams]

I want to try this but I'm scared of needles. Don't know how I'll be able to inject this into myself without fainting.

You cannot inject yourself in your own eardrum.

 

[Robert Aleman]

You cannot inject yourself in your own eardrum.

I was referring to the arm injections that the OP is doing.

 

[JohnAdams]

I was referring to the arm injections that the OP is doing.

That won't help your tinnitus. For this to be effective you have to have an intratympanic injection of IGF-1 mixed with a hydrogel to make sure that it rests in your middle ear long enough to diffuse through you round window membrane. This procedure is not approved in the Untied States for clinical applications, which is a shame.

 

[XDR]

I was referring to the arm injections that the OP is doing.

Desensitization.

I hated needles but after a week couldn't care less. Ended up with a bucket of needles after the course was complete. Don't look, stab, and inject. Simple

 

[JohnAdams]

Desensitization.

I hated needles but after a week couldn't care less. Ended up with a bucket of needles after the course was complete. Don't look, stab, and inject. Simple

What the hell are you talking about? That is an amazing way to hurt yourself. Besides, IGF-1 has to be injected into your eardrum mixed with hydrogel. What your doing has nothing to do with the studies you posted and will not help tinnitus at all.

 

[jel]

@JohnAdams
Hey bro, I have had tinnitus and hyperacusis now for almost 3 years. From loud noise exposure.

Can you recommend me something I could try? Like is trying prednisone an option still? Or injecting IGF1 in my butt? Or other steroids?

Thanks.

 

[JohnAdams]

Like is trying prednisone an option still?

Probably not.

Or injecting IGF1 in my butt?

the cheek or the hole?

Or other steroids?

not really man. sorry.

The only thing that I have found that is readily available that helps me in a significant manner is curcumin supplements.

Over and out.