It would be interesting to see what he thinks about overpopulation of hair cells. If you unroll the cochlea so its like a piano, the inner cells are in a single row, while outer cells are in 3 rows. Based on the lab tests they got a lot of regeneration and I wonder how the brain will respond with, let's say, 5 outer hair cells in some spots or multiple inner hair cells in one frequency specific area.
Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More
- Thread starter Hopeful
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It would be interesting to see what he thinks about overpopulation of hair cells. If you unroll the cochlea so its like a piano, the inner cells are in a single row, while outer cells are in 3 rows. Based on the lab tests they got a lot of regeneration and I wonder how the brain will respond with, let's say, 5 outer hair cells in some spots or multiple inner hair cells in one frequency specific area.
If their approach works as advertised (which may or may not be a big if), this will not be an issue. Their approach is predicated on the idea that it will only be necessary to "kick-start" the process. Once the process restarts, so the thinking goes, natural cues will take over leading to orderly development.
I understand that the theory is that our genes have theI understand that the theory is that our genes have the ability to regenerate the auditory system, but this ability is castrated in mammals. and these molecules are capable of canceling this castration, and trusting that regeneration does it properly, just as birds doI suppose this will already have been studied and demonstrated from their animal tests, that the correct regeneration capacity is intact once the molecules are covered. is it like that? ability to regenerate the auditory system, but this ability is castrated in mammals. and these molecules are capable of canceling this castration, and trusting that regeneration does it properly, just as birds doI suppose this will already have been studied and demonstrated from their animal tests, that the correct regeneration capacity is intact once the molecules are covered. is it like that?
i had vertigo like month ago
Edit: should have not said had, i might still have this, in fact its the only way how i can explain my recent hearing loss
Agree that it will be organized, but look at Figure 7c compared to treated 7d myo villa The inner cells, went front 1 to two in a row and outer went from 3 to to ~6 in a cross section. 7e shows a nice treated section where you can count.
http://www.cell.com/action/showImagesData?pii=S2211-1247(17)30136-5
Member- May 7, 2015
- 1,045
- Tinnitus Since
- 29.09/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma using headphones
Looking at that those images really made me feel small. I do not think I could grasp it if I had a lifetime of studying it. Thank god there is someone who does. This is really science in its highest form is it not?
@Aaron123 and @parsky, you seem to get it.
I´m pretty sure I have extensively lost pretty much most of my OH in the 10-12 kHz area.
Does these data-images show that this process also is effective regarding the OH- cells?
Is that what you where trying to say @parsky?
I just can not wait for the day until the stick that needle into my right ear.
I for one is pretty confident if regeneration works, tinnitus will be gone/alleviated.
Yeah Rodrigo, more o less that's it: the regenerative ability to mature hair cells lies dormant in our progenitor cells' tissue inside the cochlea, and various companies aim to reactivate that through injections of small molecules.
- Nov 6, 2017
- 177
- Tinnitus Since
- 26-9-2017
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknow possibly noise trauma
From that research:
"While the extent of expansion of Lgr5+ cells from adult mouse tissue was less than that from neonatal cells, the normally quiescent supporting cells from the adult mouse, rhesus, and human inner ear responded to the small-molecule cocktail used on neonatal tissue. However, additional molecules will likely be required to enhance the expansion of Lgr5+ cells from the adult cochlea."
Is it possible they did have found the additional molecules before the trial will start? The research is dated 21-2-2017. Or do they think it's worth the try for a trial?
Good Synopsis of where things are.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/02/hea...ma-venture-capital.html?__source=twitter|main
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/02/hea...ma-venture-capital.html?__source=twitter|main
Otonomy said they'll annonce the plan and timing for heir hearing loss program in the first quarter of 2018, so we'll know more soon. I'm quite exited about that ribbon synapse restoration.
Bs!! I spent fortune on stem cells!! Stem cells did NOTHING for my tinnitus and pulsatile tinnitus!! They prey upon the suffering!'
Not all stem cell therapy is created equally... In fact some are straight up scams, but that doesn't mean legitimate stem cell treatment for our condition isn't on the horizon.
- Aug 14, 2013
- 2,455
- Tinnitus Since
- Resolved since 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown (medication, head injury)
Okay... so... let me see if I can get this straight: because you didn't get a good result that makes my information BS? Gee... that's some cool logic you have going for yourself. But feel free to share a few details with the forum such as:
- Treatment provider
- Treatment protocol (incl. number of stem cells, method of administration, number of rounds of treatment)
- Cell source
I'm pretty sure you were just naive to proceed with an unverified treatment. No different than the 7 jillion 'get rid of tinnitus today' schemes.
That doesn't mean ALL stem cell treatments will not work. For all you know they could have given you placebo in one hand while taking your money in the other.
Do you know the status/background of this work. What compounds are they using? Have they already started animal testing? How effective/many synapse were they able to restore?
It's pre-clinical so there is some animal testing. As @VRZ78 said, it will be first quarter of 2018 before we know more.
I wouldn't get excited. Not because that isn't a smart path to take but because you shouldn't trust Otonomy. Right now they are wasting valuble money and time on a Phase 2 with OTO-311 another worthless steroid. When I heard that I immediately checked out of them.
Well that's what they'll do. They'll focus on their hearing loss program given the fact that their attempts with other products haven't been really successful.
Besides Otonomy, there are at least two other companies that I'm aware of that are working on ribbon synapse regeneration, and one of them is already planning clinical trials within the next years. Just give them some time!
- Feb 5, 2017
- 787
- Tinnitus Since
- 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Fluconazole
So @Aaron123 posted this interview in the Michigan's thread:
"One of the really interesting things about hidden hearing loss is initially the damage is just the loss of the connections, so called synapses between the haircells and the nerve fibers - and at that point and time, if you short to catch it early, we and others have already shown in animal models that we know what molecules to deliver to the inner ear to cause the nerve fibers to send out new connections and to make new functional connections. So we and a number of people are working on possible therapies that might be on the horizon to reconnect this disconnected nerve fibers to the hair cell targets."
Is there more information about his work somewhere? I also wanted to ask if someone here knows more about this statement: "if you short to catch it early..." which concerns me a lot. Do we know if there's a window period over regeneration approaches to be effective for hidden and measurable HL?
Thank you in advance.
There's a moment where regeneration treatments are mentioned and Dr. Liberman says on hidden HL:
"One of the really interesting things about hidden hearing loss is initially the damage is just the loss of the connections, so called synapses between the haircells and the nerve fibers - and at that point and time, if you short to catch it early, we and others have already shown in animal models that we know what molecules to deliver to the inner ear to cause the nerve fibers to send out new connections and to make new functional connections. So we and a number of people are working on possible therapies that might be on the horizon to reconnect this disconnected nerve fibers to the hair cell targets."
Is there more information about his work somewhere? I also wanted to ask if someone here knows more about this statement: "if you short to catch it early..." which concerns me a lot. Do we know if there's a window period over regeneration approaches to be effective for hidden and measurable HL?
Thank you in advance.
The precise window isn't known - certainly not for humans. The issue is that after the death of the synapse, the nerve itself eventually dies but that death is not immediate. I believe the time frame is "months to years". See here for more information: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep24907
- Feb 5, 2017
- 787
- Tinnitus Since
- 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Fluconazole
Thank you @Aaron123. That's very helpful. Have this ever been applied to humans?
Also does Frequency and Audion approaches target somehow those issues?
No.
No. Decibel and Otonomy are the places (we know of) to look for synapse repair.
- Feb 5, 2017
- 787
- Tinnitus Since
- 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Fluconazole
So correct me if i didn't get it well. From the above i understood that when (and if ) those therapies will be available - that means years - there is a big possibility not to work for people like me. I wasn't aware of that to tell you the truth.
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