Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

[crd3]

I contacted Rescue Hearing and here's what I asked them:

Hi do you guys expect to eliminate tinnitus by regenerating inner hair cells?


It took a few months but then I got this back:

I apologize for the tardiness of my reply as we have been quite busy. Our initial therapies will target progressive hearing loss. We will apply our learnings for these efforts to other indications such as tinnitus in our future products. Thank you for your interest in Rescue Hearing Inc.


I didn't know whether this was the best thread to post it and to be honest I forgot what company they actually are or what they're doing as there's so much going on at the moment.

No idea what this means.

It means that hearing loss is the target of their research as opposed to tinnitus. If the tinnitus is linked to hearing loss, however, it stands to reason that tinnitus will also be significantly alleviated or possibly cured. Many people whose hearing improves due to hearing aids or stem cell treatments experience reduction of tinnitus.

I just want to know how they're going to differentiate synapse damage from hair cell damage; seems like it could be an important distinction.

 

[Flamingo1]

It means that hearing loss is the target of their research as opposed to tinnitus. If the tinnitus is linked to hearing loss, however, it stands to reason that tinnitus will also be significantly alleviated or possibly cured. Many people whose hearing improves due to hearing aids or stem cell treatments experience reduction of tinnitus.

I meant that they were very vague in their response. How are they planning to treat progressive hearing loss and what do they classify as progressive hearing loss? Old age?

 

[Joeymeatballs]

so what happens with people who have both synapse damage and hair cell damage? Do they need both medical approaches in theory by decibel and FX? How do we even know what type of damage a HUMAN has? Where are the imaging devices because at the moment a hearing test seems vastly, VASTLY outdated and we're just taking stabs in the dark with these future approaches.

From what I was just told earlier in this thread, I'm pretty sure FX is hoping that they're regrowth of hair cells will also repair the synapses. However, I agree that the imaging system needs updating. I haven't been able to seem to get an answer to this question: Say the FX trials go well, and it helps people with tinnitus, what happens to the people who THINK they have damaged hair cells but don't actually? Is there a way for FX to count how many hair cells a person has/ if they are damaged? I assume they do but I am pretty ignorant on all of this, still trying to learn more

 

[Aaron123]

Is there a way for FX to count how many hair cells a person has/ if they are damaged?

No.

 

[crd3]

I meant that they were very vague in their response. How are they planning to treat progressive hearing loss and what do they classify as progressive hearing loss? Old age?

I hope that it means any hearing loss that's not sudden. Really hope so.

 

[Joeymeatballs]

No.

Are there just too many? Because they were able to count the cells of mice, right?

 

[Aaron123]

Are there just too many? Because they were able to count the cells of mice, right?

The experiment with the mice was done in the lab in a dish, not in living mice.

 

[Flamingo1]

I hope that it means any hearing loss that's not sudden. Really hope so.

If Rescue Hearing has published papers, they may provide some clues.

 

[Flamingo1]

so what happens with people who have both synapse damage and hair cell damage? Do they need both medical approaches in theory by decibel and FX? How do we even know what type of damage a HUMAN has? Where are the imaging devices because at the moment a hearing test seems vastly, VASTLY outdated and we're just taking stabs in the dark with these future approaches.

I believe Decibel mentioned that imaging the inner ear is one of the things they are working on.

 

[Reinier]

What does that mean?
absence of induced HL?

What I understand is that it means that there is a tiny bit of natural regeneration happening. So absence of induction is absence of inducing the progenitor cells with a "jumpstart".
This is only what I read into it. I could be completely wrong.

how many is a mouse born with? 11,500 haircells sounds as a lot (a lot of generated hc)

I did a Duckduckgo search (-;
3500 inner and 12000 outer hair-cells. In this research paper I read 3000 for the mouse and 15000 for us humans.

so what happens with people who have both synapse damage and hair cell damage? Do they need both medical approaches in theory by decibel and FX?

What I read is that the FT molecules will "just" start the process of generating new hair cells (the positive disposition ) and will do nothing for lost fibres on other still existing hair cells.
I believe Aaron123 also mentioned this earlier.

 

[Canadaman]

3500 inner and 12000 outer hair-cells. In this research paper I read 3000 for the mouse and 15000 for us humans.

These numbers are per-ear, by the way. You have double that if you count both ears.

Still, it's a remarkably small number of cells!

 

[Berik]

From a single mouse cochlea, we obtained over 11,500 hair cells, compared to less than 200 in the absence of induction.

I did a Duckduckgo search (-;
3500 inner and 12000 outer hair-cells. In this research paper I read 3000 for the mouse and 15000 for us humans.

I'm a bit lost about the number of cells of the mouse cochlear? Trying to understand how effective the treatment might be.

 

[Aaron123]

I'm a bit lost about the number of cells of the mouse cochlear? Trying to understand how effective the treatment might be.

I have no idea why you are worried about this. It has nothing to do with how effective an eventual treatment may be. The numbers quoted from the paper are from a lab experiment.

 

[Contrast]

What I read is that the FT molecules will "just" start the process of generating new hair cells (the positive disposition ) and will do nothing for lost fibres on other still existing hair cells.
I believe Aaron123 also mentioned this earlier.

So is Decible-tx is focusing on repairing the nerve and synapse related issue for already existing hair cells?
Is anyone working on it?

 

[Reinier]

So is Decible-tx is focusing on repairing the nerve and synapse related issue for already existing hair cells?
Is anyone working on it?

I believe Decibel is doing research on synapse repair or generating new synapses on existing hair-cells.
But not only Decibel. I see that Otonomy is also researching.
http://investors.otonomy.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=234082&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=2325672
"Otonomy has initiated nonclinical testing and manufacturing for OTO-413 to support an Investigational New Drug (IND) Application, with a Phase 1/2 clinical trial expected to begin in hearing loss patients in the first half of 2019."

 

[Berik]

I have no idea why you are worried about this. It has nothing to do with how effective an eventual treatment may be. The numbers quoted from the paper are from a lab experiment.

I'm not worried, I want to understand.

Edit: Aaron, you're an irritating person.

 

[Autumnly]

So is Decible-tx is focusing on repairing the nerve and synapse related issue for already existing hair cells?
Is anyone working on it?

I believe Decibel is doing research on synapse repair or generating new synapses on existing hair-cells.
But not only Decibel. I see that Otonomy is also researching.
http://investors.otonomy.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=234082&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=2325672
"Otonomy has initiated nonclinical testing and manufacturing for OTO-413 to support an Investigational New Drug (IND) Application, with a Phase 1/2 clinical trial expected to begin in hearing loss patients in the first half of 2019."

Affichem with their drug candidate AF-243 and the Hough Ear Institute are also working on that.

 

[Jiri]

Just thought I'd add an interesting article on hair cell regeneration and hearing loss: https://report.nih.gov/nihfactsheets/viewfactsheet.aspx?csid=94

How do we even know what type of damage a HUMAN has? Where are the imaging devices because at the moment a hearing test seems vastly, VASTLY outdated

That is a very good question. Anyone has any idea what type of an imaging device could dermine the type and an extent of damage in the middle and inner ear? Apart from a fMRI and electron microscope?

 

[Aaron123]

Anyone has any idea what type of an imaging device could dermine the type and an extent of damage in the middle and inner ear? Apart from a fMRI and electron microscope?

There is no way to "see" the damage to the inner ear at the moment. A number of labs are working on it, but it isn't clear when something like that will be available. Neither fMRI nor electron microscope are useful.

 

[GregCA]

There is no way to "see" the damage to the inner ear at the moment. A number of labs are working on it, but it isn't clear when something like that will be available. Neither fMRI nor electron microscope are useful.

The latest achievements I know in this domain is through optical coherence tomography (OCT).

 

[Flamingo1]

There is no way to "see" the damage to the inner ear at the moment... Neither fMRI nor electron microscope are useful.

Why can't an fMRI or electron microscope image the inner ear?

 

[Flamingo1]

Just thought I'd add an interesting article on hair cell regeneration and hearing loss: https://report.nih.gov/nihfactsheets/viewfactsheet.aspx?csid=94

Interesting and well-summarized... though the posting date says March 29, 2013.

 

[Aaron123]

Why can't an fMRI or electron microscope image the inner ear?

fMRI measures brain activity through changes in blood flow. That is not going to provide information about specific damage in the inner ear. Electron microscope doesn't work for an inner ear encased in bone.

There is currently no way to get cellular level imaging that would show, for example, hair cells in a living human (or as far as I know, mouse, rat, etc). Thus, there is no way to look at hair cell loss vs synaptic loss vs other damage at the present time.

 

[Jiri]

The latest achievements I know in this domain is through optical coherence tomography (OCT).

That is a GREAT and a very useful piece of information. I'll ask my doctor about it.

Interesting and well-summarized... though the posting date says March 29, 2013.

Exactly. Now is the year 2018 which hopefully means that after 5 years they may have been able to progress with their research a lot further.

 

[Jiri]

I recommend watching:

 

[Aaron123]

I just posted a link to a very interesting video on hidden hearing loss by Charles Liberman in the thread on hidden hearing loss. There's a lot of good information in the video, and I would encourage those with an interest in the topic to view the video: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...nversations-in-noise.17763/page-8#post-301201

 

[jdjd09]

I just posted a link to a very interesting video on hidden hearing loss by Charles Liberman in the thread on hidden hearing loss. There's a lot of good information in the video, and I would encourage those with an interest in the topic to view the video: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...nversations-in-noise.17763/page-8#post-301201

Hi Aaron123. I saw someone earlier said something negative about you and I wants to say I disagree with them very much and think you are extremely helpful and informative in this thread and discussion. I appreciate you taking the time you take to continue to share what you know on this topic.

In an unrelated topic to the first paragraph, I just wish there was a timeline out there when they think a hearing loss cure would be most likely coming out. Just some treatment that returns most hearing to patients on some level. Has anyone heard any new timelines coming out recently?

 

[acufenero]

Daily Mail is running a piece on hair cell regeneration:

Could this new jab mean the end of hearing aids? Experimental treatment injected into the ear could restore hearing by growing new 'hair' cells

What puzzles me is the first trial they are referring to:

Tests to make sure the drug is safe were completed on 24 patients in the UK at the end of 2017. Each volunteer had three, weekly injections into the eardrum, using a local anaesthetic first to numb the eardrum.

Trials to measure how effective it is could now begin within the next few months.

Is it Audion's phase 1/2? We haven't heard from them in a while.

 

[Mortzcent]

Isnt that about phase 1 Frequency trial?

 

[acufenero]

Isnt that about phase 1 Frequency trial?

Nope, Frequency's phase 1 took place in Australia as it is remarked in the piece.