Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More
- Thread starter Hopeful
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Deathtotinni
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- Dec 21, 2017
- 157
- Tinnitus Since
- 9/10/17
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Qtip and maybe a sound..who knows
These threads have been quiet the last couple weeks. We're all just waiting to see what the result of the clinical trial will be. lol
you do realize that slight, mild, moderate, severe, and profound are all outdated normie ways of classifiying SNHL. Those terms were purely based on tonal audiometry statistics.
Most hearing loss cases have to do with audiotory nerve fibers not connecting with hair cells not hair cells dying. Hair cells don't die until after the synaptic ribbons go. So the normie inducing noise trauma would have to have experienced muffled hearing first and not of cared.
Look at Decibel Therapeutics and Otonomy they are working on getting new ribbon synapses to connect to hair cells which will improve speech in background noise and clarity of music.
Regenerating hair cells in my case would probably give me useless frequencies above 14k that do not match my tinnitus tone. (accept when I yawn loud). I do perfect on a DPOAE and tonal audiogram.
You should know this manny.
I'm still waiting for confirmation that growing new hair cells will repair pre-existing damaged hair cells with less synaptic ribbons. That will make me excited if it can be confirmed.
I agree what you wrote, but I'm not sure what your point is in relation to the above.
I could have sworn I read a study about stem cells and ribbon synapses last night... I can't find it again though.
Molecular characterization and prospective isolation of human fetal cochlear hair cell progenitors
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06334-7
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06334-7
From the article:
"Supporting cells began to proliferate and started the process of activating other neighboring stem cells to lead to "apparent supernumerary hair cell formation," and these hair cells' integration with the network of neurons was also supported."
So integration was supported means that the regenerated hair-cells connect to cochlear nerve?
"Supporting cells began to proliferate and started the process of activating other neighboring stem cells to lead to "apparent supernumerary hair cell formation," and these hair cells' integration with the network of neurons was also supported."
So integration was supported means that the regenerated hair-cells connect to cochlear nerve?
We keep talking about this, and I keep repeating myself. What good is hair cell regeneration when most hearing deficits has far more to do with hair cells losing nervous tissue, not hair cells dying.
I already believe most people that are having hearing problems already have a sustainable cochlear hair cell population, it's just that the hair cells lack synaptic ribbons (nervous tissue) so music and speech in background noise sounds like shit. If this is the case hair cell regeneration will probably only be effective in *moderate cases of hearing loss and onward. It could even be that total deafness in a frequency range could be caused by totally denerved hair cells not dead ones.
*the clinical definition of "moderate hearing loss" actually means your are half deaf and is far from any rational definition of the word "moderate"
@JohnAdams already showed me some research papers that said new hair cells would not grow in regions that were preoccupied with existing hair cells, so oh well we can't use the argument "but new hair cells will make up for damaged ones"
John can you please cite these papers.
Hair cell regeneration will help more severe forms of hearing loss where there is total deafness in a tone played at specific db, AKA bad enough to show up on the outdated tonal audiogram. I mean maybe if I get 10 db of hearing back it would help, I just can't help but be skeptical.
Hearing shouldn't be measured by tonal db in silence, but rather how well one can decipher a range of frequencies in complex background noise.
Hearing shouldn't be measured by tonal db in silence, but rather how well one can decipher a range of frequencies in complex background noise.
Pero1234
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- Mar 15, 2018
- 287
- Tinnitus Since
- 02/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- home theatre system + high pressure washer
@Contrast ...
So you're saying this therapy can only work if they actually find a way to kill all cells (at a certain frequency) to level the ground and cultivate fresh ones?
Ototoxicity may come in hand after all?
Oversimplifying and a bit of sarcasm here... but the remark is valid:
Would this therapy perform better with a level playing field / cochlea?
So you're saying this therapy can only work if they actually find a way to kill all cells (at a certain frequency) to level the ground and cultivate fresh ones?
Ototoxicity may come in hand after all?
Oversimplifying and a bit of sarcasm here... but the remark is valid:
Would this therapy perform better with a level playing field / cochlea?
I stand corrected speech in quiet and tonal audiometry should be done along side test for background noise deciphering. The whole idea is the test needs to be far more focused on how well one hears in various background noises.
yeah I knew what you meant. actually you're the one that made me aware of the ineffectiveness of pure tonal audiograms vs speech recognition in noise tests.
but how does that help sell hearing aids to the stupid cattle?
Fabrikat
Member
- May 1, 2017
- 416
- Tinnitus Since
- 1973
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
Everyone talks about Frequency and FX-322 as the first regenerative treatment to expect on the market. That's if it doesn't fall over in a heap at the second hurdle.
But it's quite possible that Audion and the Regain project may get there sooner, again assuming it too doesn't fall over. At least in Europe. It won't have to contend with convoluted FDA bureaucracy. That must be worth some kind of time saving. Ah...but so many assumptions!
But it's quite possible that Audion and the Regain project may get there sooner, again assuming it too doesn't fall over. At least in Europe. It won't have to contend with convoluted FDA bureaucracy. That must be worth some kind of time saving. Ah...but so many assumptions!
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
Seems to be the one most talked about, I thought Otonomy would be an emerging player targeting hidden hearing loss and synapse repair.
Fabrikat
Member
- May 1, 2017
- 416
- Tinnitus Since
- 1973
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
Yes Otonomy too, though I think they may be still one phase behind in the regeneration race.
audion and regain are using a less effective method to regenerate hair cells.
A complex gene therapy vs working with the bodies natural progenitor cells.
Hidden hearing loss is just the reality of how the inner ear gets damaged and loses it's ability to listen in complex noise environments.
Fabrikat
Member
- May 1, 2017
- 416
- Tinnitus Since
- 1973
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
Audion are using the principles of Notch inhibition and admit to wanting to regenerate a small number of cells. For many this will be enough to positively alter psychological well being. If it's only 10 db and only in a certain frequency, so be it.
The complexities you mention may well be crucial to a truely successful process.
But at this point in history, the emergence of a lone, crinkly, motherless hair cell, coaxed into dutifully relaying a signal as it was born to do, will be greeted with all the joy of the Prodgical Son come home.
Pero1234
Member
- Mar 15, 2018
- 287
- Tinnitus Since
- 02/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- home theatre system + high pressure washer
How does this fit in with FX's approach?
Did these guys find the natural on/off switch to what FX is activating artificially with 322? Or is this something FX already knew about?
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