Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

#391
attheedgeofscience said:
You need to give Professor Jeanmonod a call. If you are serious about the treatment, I suggest you send your audiograms in advance of making the phone call. Based on my understanding of the treatment, your audiograms would indicate enough "loss of auditory input" to justify a clinical evaluation using EEG. He speaks French, German, and English; you would need to be comfortable in either of those languages. There is a waiting list.

It is unclear exactly when he will perform the first surgeries specifically for tinnitus. Again have the conversation with him first and ask whatever you would like. My own conversation with him lasted about 20 minutes. It is a pleasure to speak with him.

I am glad you are seeing results from your treatment with Dr. Wilden - even if they are only transient (to begin with). I have only the greatest respect for people who choose action over inaction.
Click to expand...
Last day here in Ibiza, And today, wake up felling good, just small T to stat day. Let´s see the rest
Defently buying a LLLT laser and keep doing the treatment. I will same devise you did, cause other is less power.
 
#392
FERNANDO GIL said:
Last day here in Ibiza, And today, wake up felling good, just small T to stat day. Let´s see the rest
Defently buying a LLLT laser and keep doing the treatment. I will same devise you did, cause other is less power.
Click to expand...

Seems like it has been a success so far. If you want to share a few lines about your experience with Dr. Wilden, please do so. It has been a year since I last met him. And I have no idea how his facilities on Ibiza compare with his previous clinic in Regensburg. I am actually considering going for another 10 sessions myself (had 10 last year too). There is a significant difference in the treatment effect between the therapy at the clinic and the treatment at home. The treatment at the clinic definitely speeds up the recovery process.

One specific question: did you have double daily sessions ie. 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the evening (= 10 hours in total) or just the normal 1 hour per day (30 min. each ear)?

Take care.
 
#393
attheedgeofscience said:
Seems like it has been a success so far. If you want to share a few lines about your experience with Dr. Wilden, please do so. It has been a year since I last met him. And I have no idea how his facilities on Ibiza compare with his previous clinic in Regensburg. I am actually considering going for another 10 sessions myself (had 10 last year too). There is a significant difference in the treatment effect between the therapy at the clinic and the treatment at home. The treatment at the clinic definitely speeds up the recovery process.

One specific question: did you have double daily sessions ie. 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the evening (= 10 hours in total) or just the normal 1 hour per day (30 min. each ear)?

Take care.
Click to expand...

Hi
Thanks for the concerne.
As you might undestand I can not compare the two offices. The office is located in the small vilage of Santa Gertrudes right in midlle of IBIZA Island. Away from all the noise. Is a nice office, clean as should be and very minimal. The room with the lasers is very quite. On the day I arrived a restaurante was openning right besides is ofice. Is a all Veagn food, nice as well and tasty food, Spend some time there.

Now concernning the treatment.
1. 5 session, one a day. 40 minutes in my ear with T (right side) and 20 minutes on other side.
2.Made an audigrame before the first treatment and one before the last treatment.
3. In my right side ear , I had improvemnets on my hearing in 15 db, in some frequencies.
4. The T still here of corse.
5. During this last two months I have been headaches and they stoped. Nice
6. When with headaches, I have SSSSSS sound on my right ear. So now I only have a T wich is (I think is a pure tone)
7. Had a pitch during my stay. some food with MSG and the pitch was lower than usual and went fast, Usualy last one day. Maybe a small dose of MSG, but went fast.
8. Sleep well.
9. And now keeping the treatment with the laser I bought.
10. I can compare the two audigram made at dr Wilden, but I will NOT compare them with the one I made in Portugal. Total diferente machines and envioremental places. I will make another high frequencie audiograme in a month time. That way I can see the results of the treatment or not.
11. When I saw the first audiograme made at Dr Widen, I though something was wrong with volume at 12hz, but on the second audigrame that value was around the same values ( up 10 db) so maybe, I say maybe, it was not so uncorrect as I thought. I say this cause the hight frequencie audiograme I made in Portugal the volume is at -70 db . Something I need to double check.

My conclusion: If ear cells do not regenerate then I really don´t know what happen. But something happen.

I tried, I´m happy I tried and next week going to Bali with all family, and going more optimistic, and hope to have great vacations. Take the treatment with me, and keep doing it.

I hope you do not take me as just a "copy cat" of what you did. But I will try the steam cell treatment as well maybe in October. Then we can compare the two. If something happen to the same way happened to you, I think we are on a way to something. If NOT, at least we know where not to go and try other things.
 

Attachments

  • Dr Widen, june 2014.jpg
    Dr Widen, june 2014.jpg
    3 MB · Views: 122
#394
FERNANDO GIL said:
Hi
Thanks for the concerne.
As you might undestand I can not compare the two offices. The office is located in the small vilage of Santa Gertrudes right in midlle of IBIZA Island. Away from all the noise. Is a nice office, clean as should be and very minimal. The room with the lasers is very quite. On the day I arrived a restaurante was openning right besides is ofice. Is a all Veagn food, nice as well and tasty food, Spend some time there.

Now concernning the treatment.
1. 5 session, one a day. 40 minutes in my ear with T (right side) and 20 minutes on other side.
2.Made an audigrame before the first treatment and one before the last treatment.
3. In my right side ear , I had improvemnets on my hearing in 15 db, in some frequencies.
4. The T still here of corse.
5. During this last two months I have been headaches and they stoped. Nice
6. When with headaches, I have SSSSSS sound on my right ear. So now I only have a T wich is (I think is a pure tone)
7. Had a pitch during my stay. some food with MSG and the pitch was lower than usual and went fast, Usualy last one day. Maybe a small dose of MSG, but went fast.
8. Sleep well.
9. And now keeping the treatment with the laser I bought.
10. I can compare the two audigram made at dr Wilden, but I will NOT compare them with the one I made in Portugal. Total diferente machines and envioremental places. I will make another high frequencie audiograme in a month time. That way I can see the results of the treatment or not.
11. When I saw the first audiograme made at Dr Widen, I though something was wrong with volume at 12hz, but on the second audigrame that value was around the same values ( up 10 db) so maybe, I say maybe, it was not so uncorrect as I thought. I say this cause the hight frequencie audiograme I made in Portugal the volume is at -70 db . Something I need to double check.

My conclusion: If ear cells do not regenerate then I really don´t know what happen. But something happen.

I tried, I´m happy I tried and next week going to Bali with all family, and going more optimistic, and hope to have great vacations. Take the treatment with me, and keep doing it.

I hope you do not take me as just a "copy cat" of what you did. But I will try the steam cell treatment as well maybe in October. Then we can compare the two. If something happen to the same way happened to you, I think we are on a way to something. If NOT, at least we know where not to go and try other things.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your account.

I agree that the audiograms you had in Portugal vs. the ones done by Dr. Wilden, show a huge difference (needless to say). I can offer explanations as to why there can be small differences (5-15 db) in this thread...

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/am-101-tactt1-results-released.1994/page-20#post-38164

...but I cannot offer an explanation as to why there can be difference of up to 50-60 db. It makes no sense. Very strange.

I do believe that Dr. Wilden's audiograms are accurate and reliable; in fact his audiology facilities in Regensburg were in the top range, I would say (see photo below). And so, based on your most recent audiograms, I would say your hearing is very good (obviously). It is good to see that people who take care of their ears, can keep good hearing throughout their lives. You should remind your son (in your avatar) of that - if you haven't already. I don't have children myself, but I have a somewhat younger brother (he's 14, and I am 36), and I have told him several times to be careful with noise (videogames, iPods, and so on). There is too much noise everywhere these days. Also be careful with noise on the airplane (in the future). I recommend using earplugs for such events (as Dr. Wilden has already told you, I am sure...:)), but be careful about earplugs during the ascent and descent of the plane (pressure equalization).

When you are closer to making a decision about future treatments, let me know. You can have my private e-mail, phone number and so on. No problem.

Enjoy the holiday.

This is what a properly sound insulated audiology environment looks like (not that many clinics offer such high quality hearing tests). This is from Dr. Wilden's previous clinic in Regensburg:

Audiology_Regensburg.jpg
 
#396
FERNANDO GIL said:
Hi
Thanks for the concerne.
As you might undestand I can not compare the two offices. The office is located in the small vilage of Santa Gertrudes right in midlle of IBIZA Island. Away from all the noise. Is a nice office, clean as should be and very minimal. The room with the lasers is very quite. On the day I arrived a restaurante was openning right besides is ofice. Is a all Veagn food, nice as well and tasty food, Spend some time there.

Now concernning the treatment.
1. 5 session, one a day. 40 minutes in my ear with T (right side) and 20 minutes on other side.
2.Made an audigrame before the first treatment and one before the last treatment.
3. In my right side ear , I had improvemnets on my hearing in 15 db, in some frequencies.
4. The T still here of corse.
5. During this last two months I have been headaches and they stoped. Nice
6. When with headaches, I have SSSSSS sound on my right ear. So now I only have a T wich is (I think is a pure tone)
7. Had a pitch during my stay. some food with MSG and the pitch was lower than usual and went fast, Usualy last one day. Maybe a small dose of MSG, but went fast.
8. Sleep well.
9. And now keeping the treatment with the laser I bought.
10. I can compare the two audigram made at dr Wilden, but I will NOT compare them with the one I made in Portugal. Total diferente machines and envioremental places. I will make another high frequencie audiograme in a month time. That way I can see the results of the treatment or not.
11. When I saw the first audiograme made at Dr Widen, I though something was wrong with volume at 12hz, but on the second audigrame that value was around the same values ( up 10 db) so maybe, I say maybe, it was not so uncorrect as I thought. I say this cause the hight frequencie audiograme I made in Portugal the volume is at -70 db . Something I need to double check.

My conclusion: If ear cells do not regenerate then I really don´t know what happen. But something happen.

I tried, I´m happy I tried and next week going to Bali with all family, and going more optimistic, and hope to have great vacations. Take the treatment with me, and keep doing it.

I hope you do not take me as just a "copy cat" of what you did. But I will try the steam cell treatment as well maybe in October. Then we can compare the two. If something happen to the same way happened to you, I think we are on a way to something. If NOT, at least we know where not to go and try other things.
Click to expand...

Hi GIL,
good to read that you are doing good after your stay in Ibizza.
For you audiogramm, I mean, you already have perfect hearing, and I guess a tolerance of 5-10 dB in this range is
absolutely normal. For your age, you have very good hearing. Ofcourse, you have been to Dr. Wilden concerning the tinnitus... and if there is an increase in the positive way that's super!
I have some more hearing loss in the 30-35 range at 1-2 khz and >10 khz... This is what I really feel eveyday.
So for me it would be an if there would be a success...

Greets Tom
 
#398
FERNANDO GIL said:
Hi
Thanks for the concerne.
As you might undestand I can not compare the two offices. The office is located in the small vilage of Santa Gertrudes right in midlle of IBIZA Island. Away from all the noise. Is a nice office, clean as should be and very minimal. The room with the lasers is very quite. On the day I arrived a restaurante was openning right besides is ofice. Is a all Veagn food, nice as well and tasty food, Spend some time there.

Now concernning the treatment.
1. 5 session, one a day. 40 minutes in my ear with T (right side) and 20 minutes on other side.
2.Made an audigrame before the first treatment and one before the last treatment.
3. In my right side ear , I had improvemnets on my hearing in 15 db, in some frequencies.
4. The T still here of corse.
5. During this last two months I have been headaches and they stoped. Nice
6. When with headaches, I have SSSSSS sound on my right ear. So now I only have a T wich is (I think is a pure tone)
7. Had a pitch during my stay. some food with MSG and the pitch was lower than usual and went fast, Usualy last one day. Maybe a small dose of MSG, but went fast.
8. Sleep well.
9. And now keeping the treatment with the laser I bought.
10. I can compare the two audigram made at dr Wilden, but I will NOT compare them with the one I made in Portugal. Total diferente machines and envioremental places. I will make another high frequencie audiograme in a month time. That way I can see the results of the treatment or not.
11. When I saw the first audiograme made at Dr Widen, I though something was wrong with volume at 12hz, but on the second audigrame that value was around the same values ( up 10 db) so maybe, I say maybe, it was not so uncorrect as I thought. I say this cause the hight frequencie audiograme I made in Portugal the volume is at -70 db . Something I need to double check.

My conclusion: If ear cells do not regenerate then I really don´t know what happen. But something happen.

I tried, I´m happy I tried and next week going to Bali with all family, and going more optimistic, and hope to have great vacations. Take the treatment with me, and keep doing it.

I hope you do not take me as just a "copy cat" of what you did. But I will try the steam cell treatment as well maybe in October. Then we can compare the two. If something happen to the same way happened to you, I think we are on a way to something. If NOT, at least we know where not to go and try other things.
Click to expand...

Just on a side note, Bali is flooded with noise pollution ... lot`s of traffic and even more dangerous is their traditional music wich conists of poeple hitting as hard as they can on metal bells bowls and cymbal-like things ... check some youtube video on that one. I stayed there for 1.5 months some years ago and a lot of places have young kids making this music in small rooms. the men living in Bali growing up with this tradition whil most deffinately have severe hearing loss and possible Tinnitus. the world today needs a cure for our ears cause it`s going to be even more and already IS a huge problem with debilitating effects for millions of poeples lives on this globe ...
 
#399
nills said:
Just on a side note, Bali is flooded with noise pollution ... lot`s of traffic and even more dangerous is their traditional music wich conists of poeple hitting as hard as they can on metal bells bowls and cymbal-like things ... check some youtube video on that one. I stayed there for 1.5 months some years ago and a lot of places have young kids making this music in small rooms. the men living in Bali growing up with this tradition whil most deffinately have severe hearing loss and possible Tinnitus. the world today needs a cure for our ears cause it`s going to be even more and already IS a huge problem with debilitating effects for millions of poeples lives on this globe ...
Click to expand...
Hi and thanks for the concern. I think now more problematic than the music, is the night life in KUTA. Is my 5th time there. I´m aware of that, Thanks. But is really family trip we are 10 so mostlty will be quite, just hope the sound of waves, going for some surf as well, does not afect my T.

But I real do not like that music a lot.
Thanks
 
#400

Attachments

  • 2014 6.0 GenVec_Presentation.pdf
    1.4 MB · Views: 38
#401
JohnDoe said:
Genvec has posted a new investor presentation dated June 2014:

Download Link: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MjM3OTY1fENoaWxkSUQ9LTF8VHlwZT0z&t=1
Source: http://www.genvec.com/

On page 27 it states that one of the exploratory endpoints is: Tinnitus Reaction Questionnaire (TRQ).

Does this imply / suggest that CGF166 could be used to treat / cure Tinnitus?
Click to expand...


Well the thing about the trial for this treatment is that they had to exclude people who were born with profound deafness, due to the fact that they don't have the structures in the inner ear to support hair cell growth. The only people who are eligible for this are people who have lost hearing through loss of hair cells. So in my opinion, yes it does hint towards this being a possible cure for tinnitus caused by NIHL, Ototoxicity, and SSNHL.
 
#402
Champ said:
I honestly think this has insanely legitimate potential. If you believe in evolution, you should realize it's possible for the "first" mammals to have been generated and mutated without the ability to inhibit Notch, unlike animals such as birds (supposedly evolved from dinosaurs) and reptiles. We do have very similar hearing systems - theirs just doesn't block the ability to regrow hair cells, and they naturally regenerate them just like we'd regenerate if we hurt our hands or broke our bones. I suspect it'll be a either a drug to block Notch, gene therapy, or a clever combination of both. Given the number of people researching the solutions, and the number of companies getting involved, it's a matter of how fast the research can progress. We should be seeing results in legitimate scenario 5-10 years, if you were to ask me. It may take longer to really get it to the masses, but given the incidences of hearing loss and tinnitus nowadays, there is a lot of pressure to push forward and produce workable solutions.
Click to expand...

Interested in regeneration but I'll take a special quiet pill now.
 
#403
JohnDoe said:
Download Link: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MjM3OTY1fENoaWxkSUQ9LTF8VHlwZT0z&t=1
Source: http://www.genvec.com/
Click to expand...

On Page 28, they have their Key Inclusion Criteria for incoming test subjects:

Key Inclusion Criteria
• Patients 18-70 years old with acquired bilateral hearing loss
• Stable pure tone thresholds for at least 6 months
• Pure tone threshold > 70 dB (but not deaf)
• Meet cochlear implantation criteria
• Patients eligible for general anesthesia and surgery

Notice there is no timeframe included. That's very nice to see.
 
#404
I'm very curious about this outcome.
Would be a nice success, if the delivery sytem would work. For the regeneration drug/process, I'm sure they need much more specific optimisation...
But good for the research field...
 
#405
Found more detailed presentation of CGF166 genvec/novartis:
http://osp.od.nih.gov/sites/default/files/1_1260_CGF166_Klickstein.pdf

highlights:
-they already tested it on 3000 animal subjects including monkeys
-avarage 60% of hair cells regenarated
-only INNER hair cells are regenerated, which means its only for people with severe and worse hearling loss ... :(
(outer hair cells are many more in count and they are capable for hearing very quite and quite sounds)
in my opinion, at its best it will get back some hearing eliglibe for hearing aids
 
#406
attheedgeofscience said:
You need to give Professor Jeanmonod a call. If you are serious about the treatment, I suggest you send your audiograms in advance of making the phone call. Based on my understanding of the treatment, your audiograms would indicate enough "loss of auditory input" to justify a clinical evaluation using EEG. He speaks French, German, and English; you would need to be comfortable in either of those languages. There is a waiting list.

It is unclear exactly when he will perform the first surgeries specifically for tinnitus. Again have the conversation with him first and ask whatever you would like. My own conversation with him lasted about 20 minutes. It is a pleasure to speak with him.

I am glad you are seeing results from your treatment with Dr. Wilden - even if they are only transient (to begin with). I have only the greatest respect for people who choose action over inaction.
Click to expand...
Thanks once again.
going for steam cells first, then we see what next.

how is going your LLLT treatment. getting any better?
 
#407
FERNANDO GIL said:
Thanks once again.
going for steam cells first, then we see what next.

how is going your LLLT treatment. getting any better?
Click to expand...

Yes, I am getting better. I have just finished a week's rest (= no laser) after 8-9 weeks of treatment. I would rate my combined improvement against baseline tinnitus from April last year to be about 50-60%/50%, left/right ear.

Take care.
 
#408
spingee said:
Found more detailed presentation of CGF166 genvec/novartis:
http://osp.od.nih.gov/sites/default/files/1_1260_CGF166_Klickstein.pdf

highlights:
-they already tested it on 3000 animal subjects including monkeys
-avarage 60% of hair cells regenarated
-only INNER hair cells are regenerated, which means its only for people with severe and worse hearling loss ... :(
(outer hair cells are many more in count and they are capable for hearing very quite and quite sounds)
in my opinion, at its best it will get back some hearing eliglibe for hearing aids
Click to expand...

Very intersiting finding. Yes, seems that there is "just" IHC regeneration.
Anyway, if this is working, it would show that the adenovirus is good transportation and
the concept of "regeneration of cells normally not regenerating" would work. So maybe with another drug
or an optimized compound there could also be OHC regeneration.
I'm very curiouse.... but this trial also have big risks to fail. But there must be a reason Novartis
gives his name for that...
 
#412
#414
just a question: how are the going to reverse neuropathy? Noise is mainly linked with degeneration of the auditory nerve and its connections with the hair cells. Rebuilding a hair cell does not mean it is connected to the nerve. It is like attaching a new arm, but not connecting the nerve.
 
#415
Sjoerd said:
just a question: how are the going to reverse neuropathy? Noise is mainly linked with degeneration of the auditory nerve and its connections with the hair cells. Rebuilding a hair cell does not mean it is connected to the nerve. It is like attaching a new arm, but not connecting the nerve.
Click to expand...
its stated (for example in the video above) that when hair cell is regenerated the auditory nerve is automatically reconnected
 
#416
Sjoerd said:
just a question: how are the going to reverse neuropathy? Noise is mainly linked with degeneration of the auditory nerve and its connections with the hair cells. Rebuilding a hair cell does not mean it is connected to the nerve. It is like attaching a new arm, but not connecting the nerve.
Click to expand...

It was one of the big concerns of thr researchers. But now they have seen that the hair cells aiming to connect with the nerves. I asked that considering the "Hidden Hearing Loss" findings, where hair cells remain but nerves degenerate.
I guess it's great research going on at Stanford. The more they understand how everything works, the more likely they can do something.
They told, that the ear (cochlea) is a well hidden and not easy to reach organ, but for regeneration it's good, because the structure still remains and "just a few cells" need to be regenerated. (compared to a Retina)
 
#417
tomytl said:
It was one of the big concerns of thr researchers. But now they have seen that the hair cells aiming to connect with the nerves. I asked that considering the "Hidden Hearing Loss" findings, where hair cells remain but nerves degenerate.
I guess it's great research going on at Stanford. The more they understand how everything works, the more likely they can do something.
They told, that the ear (cochlea) is a well hidden and not easy to reach organ, but for regeneration it's good, because the structure still remains and "just a few cells" need to be regenerated. (compared to a Retina)
Click to expand...
So this could help people that went the worse roote in getting there auditory nerve cut? And they should regain some hearing back?
 
#418
Grace said:
So this could help people that went the worse roote in getting there auditory nerve cut? And they should regain some hearing back?
Click to expand...
There is better research which regenerates auditory nerve with gene therapy using cochlear implant as drug delivery tool
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/275923.php

Im rather exited with this becouse it could possibly made cochlear implants much more precise in terms of sound dynamics (ability to enjoy music). Also there is another research with cochlear implant that is all in body without external parts.
For deaf people there is bright future.
 
#419
Grace said:
So this could help people that went the worse roote in getting there auditory nerve cut? And they should regain some hearing back?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if this kind of cut is the same. I guess they would need another regenerative treatment, but it's just speculation
 
#420
I just found an radio stream with some additional information about hearing research.
It's in german-language from a Swiss radio station.

http://www.srf.ch/player/radio/audi...de=inline&autoplay=true&html5playersize=small

The talk about the limits of cochlear implants and the new strong activities in biological resarch like
hair cell regeneration. If everything goes well with the ongoing Novartis Trial (https://www.novartisclinicaltrials.com/TrialConnectWeb/aboutresult.nov?studyid=54904),
Jeffrey Holt (researcher at Harvard andBostenChildrenHospital) estimates there could be a first cure for hearing loss in 5-10 years.
But like always at the end of every such information they cautions that there are many things that all this could fail....

At least a encouraging radiocast... and it's not a "boulevard" radio station at all.
 

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