Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

[Aaron123]

Developing this should not take an enormous amount of time?

Assuming that current testing equipment can measure the ABR wave-V, it would seem like it would be possible to implement a test like this now. As I said, I haven't seen the paper so I know any of the caveats that didn't make it into the abstract, and I suppose they may have more advanced testing equipment than the typical ENT. (Liberman and colleagues are exploring a number of other approaches as well: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26323349 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26657094.)

Although most of the posts here are about stem cells or gene therapy, I've been wondering how it would be possible to provide the right treatment to the inner ear if you don't know what specifically is damaged. Although it is the "gold standard", we know that pure tone audiometry doesn't capture many hearing issues so would seem to be an inadequate test to distinguish specific types of damage.

I recently came across a paper "Human audiometric thresholds do not predict specific cellular damage in the inner ear" (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378595515302914) where they are able to dissect human cochlea that were preserved at death and compare them to the same individual's previous hearing tests. In other words, they could quantify hair cell and nerve damage in humans similar to the way they do for mice in animal experiments. They found good though by no means perfect correlation between hair cell loss and hearing threshold but essentially no correlation between hearing tests and nerve damage. It's worth nothing that the hearing tests weren't conducted immediately prior to death - median time 2 years - though one was done only 5 hours prior! Thus they don't know test hearing test results that would be most closely related to the state of the cochlea at death.

In addition to non-invasive tests, there's also work on non- or less-invasive imagining. I posted this in a different thread, but it fits nicely here as well:

There is work on imaging techniques to view the inner ear at the cellular level in order to understand what is damaged. See, for example,

http://biomedicaloptics.spiedigitallibrary.org/article.aspx?articleid=1392727
http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1691511

Additionally, at least one attempt is underway to design an endoscope for inner ear imaging

http://www.researchposters.com/Posters/COSM/COSM2015/F010.pdf

If they can get this worked out, it will be a big step forward to be able to correlate hearing tests and patient reports with imaging of the inner ear and to attempt to develop hearing tests that can distinguish inner ear damage.

Much of this work seems to be done by a relatively large group at Mass Eye and Ear and Harvard. It's not as sexy as stem cells or gene therapy but this - along with drug delivery methods - seems necessary to better target therapies.

 

[Reinier]

I've been wondering how it would be possible to provide the right treatment to the inner ear if you don't know what specifically is damaged. Although it is the "gold standard", we know that pure tone audiometry doesn't capture many hearing issues so would seem to be an inadequate test to distinguish specific types of damage.

I absolutely agree. I have been wondering about this to. Being a technician I see an analogy. Before doing anything short of replacing everything in a technical installation, I need to determine what exactly is working and what is not. I used to repair electronic equipment at component level. For that you need to completely understand the workings of this equipment in detail. (good old days).

The links you sent where very interesting.
I have seen documents where hair cells are mentioned as the main culprit of NIHL and increasingly I see documents that mention that nerve damage most likely is the bigger contributor to hard of hearing.
I can easily understand that it will be both (and more). This only enforces my believe that developments in more accurate tests are paramount.
Harvard does very interesting work.

 

[Nick Pyzik]

I'm just so happy that they are finally looking at the auditory nerve and synapses as causes for T and H and hidden hearing loss.My condition has worsened twice since getting it but yet my audiograms and OAEs say my hearing is perfect up to 10,000hz but I can personally hear upto 16000hz.Mine is noise induced and I've long believed that the connections underneath the hair cell is where the problem lies.

To simply put it, I'm in the same category as you Bill. It's the study and the regeneration of the auditory nerve through Neurotrophic Factors or Stem Cells that interest me. My Audiogram and OAE test both came out as completely normal yet my hearing has dramatically changed over the past 6 months causing all sorts of problems for me. I can't say it enough, but the role of the auditory nerve, if working properly like it did when you were much younger and developing (unless you were born deaf) is to help you to emotionally learn and process information in this world. We praise the hair cells for allowing us to hear, although they are very important with picking up different frequencies of sound waves in this world. The afferent/efferent nerves of the auditory nerve are just as important, if not more important since it gives us the ability to feel emotional connections to things like music, your Mother/Father's voice(s), and it helps you create stronger memories in your brain (if functioning correctly, which it seems to not be with the elderly, hence the trouble hearing/processing with background noise). I also believe that it allows us to "hear" each frequency much louder in the brain depending on how many efferent nerves are associated with the hair cell. There is still much more to be found with having this Hidden Hearing Loss, but I'm glad it's being shown much more attention at this time. I also can't say it enough, but there has got to be a connection between Tinnitus and Hidden Hearing Loss.


I post these links so much, but whatever, they are studies that support my statements.

http://www.tinnitus.org.uk/tinnitus-and-hidden-hearing-loss

http://acoustics.org/pressroom/httpdocs/159th/liberman.htm

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news...y_new_contributor_to_age_related_hearing_loss

 

[bill 112]

I couldn't agree more Nick,and if I'm honest I don't believe hair cells are the cause for this bullshit at all!I genuinely believe that it's the auditory nerve that is,at least in my situation,responsible for the hearing issues some of us are having.I have perfect audiograms and very strong OAEs in both ears although I'm going for a DPOAE soon to get even more insight on my hair cells but at the moment it doesn't appear that they are the cause,I can hear upto 16,000hz for crying out loud!All my symptoms point to auditory nerve damage,My MRI shows no lesions anywhere in my auditory brain or on my auditory nerve or anywhere for that matter so I think I'm fairly close to pin pointing where my problem lies,I believe some of if not many of the connections(synapses)under my hair cells have become damaged but I guess there's no way of knowing for sure

 

[RB2014]

I couldn't agree more Nick,and if I'm honest I don't believe hair cells are the cause for this bullshit at all!I genuinely believe that it's the auditory nerve that is,at least in my situation,responsible for the hearing issues some of us are having.I have perfect audiograms and very strong OAEs in both ears although I'm going for a DPOAE soon to get even more insight on my hair cells but at the moment it doesn't appear that they are the cause,I can hear upto 16,000hz for crying out loud!All my symptoms point to auditory nerve damage,My MRI shows no lesions anywhere in my auditory brain or on my auditory nerve or anywhere for that matter so I think I'm fairly close to pin pointing where my problem lies,I believe some of if not many of the connections(synapses)under my hair cells have become damaged but I guess there's no way of knowing for sure

Its an interesting theory you make. My hearing is in the toilet, but maybe its not the hair cells that I have lost, maybe its the auditory nerves that have died because I lost my hair cells. Either way, if you have you lost hair cells you have T whether you realize it or not. I didnt really have noticeable T until I had a bout with Anxiety. I might have had T for another 20 years and not realized if not for the anxiety, but I know thats what pushed it over the edge for me.

T can also go away though whether its cronic or not. I did an experiment the other day. I was having a good T day. I would give it less than a 1. I took off my hearing aide and within 15 seconds in that ear only I got loud T. I put my hearing aide back on and within 15 to 20 seconds it went back down to less than 1.

I'm sure you guys have tried everything, and I'm just trying to help, but have you guys with good hearing tried maybe listening to music with frequencies in the range you are having your T. Maybe listen for hours on end and see if the T improves. It might be the same as the experiment I tried. I have also drowned it out with the tinnitus videos on youtube of rainfall. After about 15 minutes I cant tell my T from a raindrop which is really a good thing.

 

[Reinier]

I believe some of if not many of the connections(synapses)under my hair cells have become damaged but I guess there's no way of knowing for sure

Not yet!
An important first step already has been made: realising that there is much more to hearing than a perfect audiogram.
I feel positive after reading the post from @Aaron123 . Devising new smart hi tech ways to determine loss of synapses science is working on.

 

[Nick Pyzik]

I couldn't agree more Nick,and if I'm honest I don't believe hair cells are the cause for this bullshit at all!I genuinely believe that it's the auditory nerve that is,at least in my situation,responsible for the hearing issues some of us are having.I have perfect audiograms and very strong OAEs in both ears although I'm going for a DPOAE soon to get even more insight on my hair cells but at the moment it doesn't appear that they are the cause,I can hear upto 16,000hz for crying out loud!All my symptoms point to auditory nerve damage,My MRI shows no lesions anywhere in my auditory brain or on my auditory nerve or anywhere for that matter so I think I'm fairly close to pin pointing where my problem lies,I believe some of if not many of the connections(synapses)under my hair cells have become damaged but I guess there's no way of knowing for sure

Good, I'm glad you're getting more checked out with the hair cells. Truthfully, there is a fault in the hearing test system and I can strongly back it that statement up by what I'm experiencing now, what's come out of all the hearing tests I've participated in, what you're experiencing, and what many of the articles I've read claim happens to our auditory nerves from loud noise. Especially the newly founded contributing factor to why those of an older age or also whose "hearing" has accumulated damage from loud noise over time, can't process sounds well when other noises are going on. I've stated this before, but we need a reasonable amount of in-going nerves (which from what I've read seem to be Afferent nerves) located on each specific hair cell region to clearly pick up and process the sound wave frequency that was picked up by hair cell(s) of the cochlea. Since a new study has shown that we can lose these in-going (afferent) nerves through age or even sped up through loud noise, then the reason we lose the ability to hear properly even with all our hair cells intact, are because of too many out going (efferent) nerves that have secretly attached themselves on different regions of hair cells in place of the missing areas that the in-going nerves disconnected from. I believe that this sort of hidden change in "hearing" is missed because as long as the brain to ear connection has a reasonable amount of functional properties to where we can still process words and hear the slightest amount of frequency sound waves picked up by every region of hair cells, the Auditory Brain Response test will come out as close to normal.

I could be wrong but then why was my ABR test completely normal and I can 100% state that my hearing is nothing like it should be for a healthy 21 year old, then there has to be a fault in the system. There are much more factors that play into these changes in auditory nerves that I believe affect our cognitive, emotional, and mental abilities but I won't go there.

I can still hear up to 19,000-20,000 which clearly shows that my hair cells are intact. It's great there's work being done with Neurotrophic Factors to reestablish connections between synapses of the auditory nerves that have been damaged, but I believe stem cells differentiated into neurons would be a better fit all together. Using neurotrophic factors would only work if the damage occurred over a short period of time because as the months roll by, even years roll by, the nerves retract back into the brain (which is believed to be the auditory cortex or limbic system) and from there if not fed Neurotrophic Factors, the neurons will die. That is why some people on this site claim that the noise they hear from "Tinnitus" has disappeared completely. Either the brain adapting to the ringing has allowed them to not pick up the noise as much as it focuses on the other auditory stimuli of the hearing system or the neurons that connected the brain to the inner ear have entirely died.

I've actually enjoyed still hearing low, mid, high noises of so called "Tinnitus" because I'm trusting the studies I've read and I'm looking to keep my neurons alive until treatments are available to reestablish connections between the brain and inner ear. So I've been feeding my brain as many Neurotrophic factors as possible.

 

[bill 112]

Good, I'm glad you're getting more checked out with the hair cells. Truthfully, there is a fault in the hearing test system and I can strongly back it that statement up by what I'm experiencing now, what's come out of all the hearing tests I've participated in, what you're experiencing, and what many of the articles I've read claim happens to our auditory nerves from loud noise. Especially the newly founded contributing factor to why those of an older age or also whose "hearing" has accumulated damage from loud noise over time, can't process sounds well when other noises are going on. I've stated this before, but we need a reasonable amount of in-going nerves (which from what I've read seem to be Afferent nerves) located on each specific hair cell region to clearly pick up and process the sound wave frequency that was picked up by hair cell(s) of the cochlea. Since a new study has shown that we can lose these in-going (afferent) nerves through age or even sped up through loud noise, then the reason we lose the ability to hear properly even with all our hair cells intact, are because of too many out going (efferent) nerves that have secretly attached themselves on different regions of hair cells in place of the missing areas that the in-going nerves disconnected from. I believe that this sort of hidden change in "hearing" is missed because as long as the brain to ear connection has a reasonable amount of functional properties to where we can still process words and hear the slightest amount of frequency sound waves picked up by every region of hair cells, the Auditory Brain Response test will come out as close to normal.

I could be wrong but then why was my ABR test completely normal and I can 100% state that my hearing is nothing like it should be for a healthy 21 year old, then there has to be a fault in the system. There are much more factors that play into these changes in auditory nerves that I believe affect our cognitive, emotional, and mental abilities but I won't go there.

I can still hear up to 19,000-20,000 which clearly shows that my hair cells are intact. It's great there's work being done with Neurotrophic Factors to reestablish connections between synapses of the auditory nerves that have been damaged, but I believe stem cells differentiated into neurons would be a better fit all together. Using neurotrophic factors would only work if the damage occurred over a short period of time because as the months roll by, even years roll by, the nerves retract back into the brain (which is believed to be the auditory cortex or limbic system) and from there if not fed Neurotrophic Factors, the neurons will die. That is why some people on this site claim that the noise they hear from "Tinnitus" has disappeared completely. Either the brain adapting to the ringing has allowed them to not pick up the noise as much as it focuses on the other auditory stimuli of the hearing system or the neurons that connected the brain to the inner ear have entirely died.

I've actually enjoyed still hearing low, mid, high noises of so called "Tinnitus" because I'm trusting the studies I've read and I'm looking to keep my neurons alive until treatments are available to reestablish connections between the brain and inner ear. So I've been feeding my brain as many Neurotrophic factors as possible.

What exactly do you mean by feeding your brain neurotrophic factors?Just curious.

 

[bill 112]

Just done another frequency test and got upto 18,000hz but 19 and 20 are most certainly dead in my ears,heard nadda

 

[tomytl]

maybe someone already posted it somewhere, but I like the story and also the illustration of showing in this blog amazing!

https://hearinglosscure.stanford.ed...lity-implicates-a-role-for-the-lipid-bilayer/

 

[Nick Pyzik]

What exactly do you mean by feeding your brain neurotrophic factors?Just curious.

Neurotrophic Factors are what researchers are looking at to regrow the auditory nerve synapses so that they reconnect with the appropriate hair cell that it has lost connection to. Neurotrophic Factors are defined as, "a family of proteins that are responsible for the growth and survival of developing neurons and the maintenance of mature neurons". There are different sorts of NF's. One type is Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor. You can unlock this brain growth hormone by what's called exercising. We also can raise our BDNF level a bit by getting some sun. Other types of NF's are NT-3 which is defined by, "a neurotrophic factor which stimulates nerve growth in different populations of neurons outside of the population that is being affected by NGF." There are quite a few other ones like bFGF, IGF, CNTF, and NT-4/NT-5.

I've been using a few supplements that contain NF's like Astaxanthin, Lions Mane, Curcumin (turmeric), and Ashwagandha. I started using Astaxanthin after reading about a man on here experimenting with the antioxidant supplement. I wanted to see what would happen with it's NT-3 properties. It didn't produce any effects on my hearing although it did give me a good bit of energy months ago when I first started it. I've continued using the supplement plus Lions Mane and Ashwagandha. I also put turmeric in my smoothie every morning. Although I'm happy to have a bit of my ability to remember information left, the cognition I had before my hearing changed was absolutely nothing compared to what it is now. I can definitely say the supplements I'm using now help me with my memory a good bit since all have been clinically studied to aid with those who have problems with cognitive diseases like Dementia or Alzheimers.

 

[Aaron123]

Two interesting recent papers (one from March 24 and one from Feb 26) by a group of scientists using induced pluripotent stem cells and CRISPER/CAS9 editing to induce "hair cell like cells" in cases with hearing loss due to a genetic mutation. (links to abstracts below)

In the first paper they generated induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSC) from a child who is deaf due to a single genetic mutation, from her normal hearing father, and from a healthy control. The girl's iPSCs were genetically edited using CRISPER to correct the mutation. From the three groups of iPSCs they induced "hair cell like cells". From the abstract "Hair cell-like cells induced from CP-iPSCs [the girl's iPSCs] showed restored organization of stereocilia-like protrusions; moreover, the electrophysiological function of these cells was similar to that of cells induced from C-iPSCs [the control patient's iPSCs] and CF-iPSCs [the girls's father's iPSCs]." So, the repaired iPSCs were differentiated into hair cells that behaved similar to the ones "grown" from the healthy controls.

This was done in the lab so there isn't any report of hearing improvement. Abstract is here http://stemcellstm.alphamedpress.or...ract?sid=85955065-83ae-4165-9ec0-1dc7b127ed5a
Nontechnical story is here http://www.prweb.com/releases/2016/04/prweb13304626.htm

In a second paper, the same (or mostly the same) authors did something similar with a different genetic mutation. Abstract at http://palgrave.nature.com/cdd/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/cdd201616a.html

While "only" targeted at genetic deafness due to a single mutation, these seem like steps in the right direction.

 

[Reinier]

Just done another frequency test and got upto 18,000hz

I am jealous.

 

[tomytl]

One more Lab
http://m.sj-r.com/blogs/20160407/hope-for-hearing-loss

 

[Reinier]

I had a look at there website. http://www.siumed.edu/surgery/ent/research.html
Also: http://www.siumed.edu/surgery/ent/index.html
You can participate in a research study.
quote: "SIU School of Medicine is conducting a research study to determine if people who suffer from tinnitus (ringing in the ears) detect silent gaps embedded in background noise differently from people with only hearing loss (no tinnitus). The purpose of the study is to assist researchers in developing better techniques for studying tinnitus."
End quote.
If you live in the area??

 

[Reinier]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/308790.php
"Duke study uncovers genetic elements that drive regeneration"
The principle is the same. If science unravels the pathways for regenerating tissue in the inner ear we are there where we want to be. Time for celebrating.

 

[Poyraz]

Now I wonder how many years will it take to come true..

 

[Reinier]

Now I wonder how many years will it take to come true..

Hmmm... I am afraid, many, many years.

 

[RB2014]

https://hearinghealthfoundation.org/blog?blogid=209&cat=3

https://hearinghealthfoundation.org...ay_Genes_during_Development_2016_PLoS_One.PDF

More reading.

 

[tomytl]

https://hearinghealthfoundation.org/blog?blogid=209&cat=3

https://hearinghealthfoundation.org...ay_Genes_during_Development_2016_PLoS_One.PDF

More reading.

Puhhh, this is like seriouse science looks like, great finding! It also shows the complexity of this important research

 

[Reinier]

It also shows the complexity

This is why I do not understand that claims are made on the internet that injecting someone with stem cells improves hearing.
It also sometimes gets me in a sombre mood thinking about the daunting task. Mapping step by step how a cochlea develops.
On a scale from one to ten I wonder what the complexity of this mapping is. Can we compare it with something to make it more insightful.
Regeneration medicine in general also should give a boost to specific regeneration in the inner ear.
There has been a lot of talk about regenerative medicine for some years already.

 

[tomytl]

This is why I do not understand that claims are made on the internet that injecting someone with stem cells improves hearing.
It also sometimes gets me in a sombre mood thinking about the daunting task. Mapping step by step how a cochlea develops.
On a scale from one to ten I wonder what the complexity of this mapping is. Can we compare it with something to make it more insightful.
Regeneration medicine in general also should give a boost to specific regeneration in the inner ear.
There has been a lot of talk about regenerative medicine for some years already.

Maybe injecting a cocktail of stem cells like it is done in some Asian or Middle American countries might probably work like a support for a healing process, if there is already this mechanism available in thr body. But this is just my personal impression and maybe I have no idea about.

The other rrsearch done by world leading labs shows how they try to manipulate a mechanism which isn't active for the hearing organ in an adult mammalian body or at least unknown. So they track down every process what's going on in the devopment and compare it to the adult cells and try to unlock this missing potential of this regeneration property.

I don't know if it's conparable work to other fields in the regenerative medicine. I just read that the ear has also it's advances for this experiment, because the nerve/cells have short distance to grow and the ear is well isolated from the body, which also is a disadvantage to get into the inner ear physically.

Anyway I know a scientist working also in wnt signaling in the inner ear, I asked about this work and the latest developments, so if I get some news I let you all know in this thread.

 

[matt89]

Maybe injecting a cocktail of stem cells like it is done in some Asian or Middle American countries might probably work like a support for a healing process, if there is already this mechanism available in thr body. But this is just my personal impression and maybe I have no idea about.

The probability is existent that mesenchymal stem cells can transform into hair cells when they are injected through the eardrum (intra-tympanic) and reach the inner ear.
Nevertheless the question comes up if mesenchymal stem cells are able to replace damaged/overreacting hair cells (tinnitus, hyperacusis) or if they are only able to replace hair cells which are torn off/completely destroyed (hearing loss).
In many cases we hear from people with hearing loss who had improvements after stem cell injections. So we know that stem cells have an effect when there are no (more) hair cells existent (hearing loss). Maybe in this case a mesenchymal stem cell knows where it should transform into a hair cell.

But I have no idea or imagination how injected mesenchymal stem cells behave in case of damaged/overreacting hair cells (causing tinnitus, hyperacusis), because these hair cells are still available on the spot in the inner ear. So if someone has tinnitus/hyperacusis and no hearing loss and gets mesenchymal stem cells injected, it seems to me like a situation where you want to find a free seat in an overcrowded train with no free seats.

Can a mesenchymal stem cell detect a damaged hair cell? If yes can the mesenchymal stem cell remove the damaged hair cell or (provided that it cannot remove the damaged hair cell) does it transform right beside the damaged hair cell?
Provided a mesenchymal stem cell settles down right beside a damaged hair cell can it stimulate the damaged hair cell in a way that the overreaction stops?

Maybe @attheedgeofscience can give some input here.

 

[tomytl]

The probability is existent that mesenchymal stem cells can transform into hair cells when they are injected through the eardrum (intra-tympanic) and reach the inner ear.
Nevertheless the question comes up if mesenchymal stem cells are able to replace damaged/overreacting hair cells (tinnitus, hyperacusis) or if they are only able to replace hair cells which are torn off/completely destroyed (hearing loss).
In many cases we hear from people with hearing loss who had improvements after stem cell injections. So we know that stem cells have an effect when there are no (more) hair cells existent (hearing loss). Maybe in this case a mesenchymal stem cell knows where it should transform into a hair cell.

But I have no idea or imagination how injected mesenchymal stem cells behave in case of damaged/overreacting hair cells (causing tinnitus, hyperacusis), because these hair cells are still available on the spot in the inner ear. So if someone has tinnitus/hyperacusis and no hearing loss and gets mesenchymal stem cells injected, it seems to me like a situation where you want to find a free seat in an overcrowded train with no free seats.

Can a mesenchymal stem cell detect a damaged hair cell? If yes can the mesenchymal stem cell remove the damaged hair cell or (provided that it cannot remove the damaged hair cell) does it transform right beside the damaged hair cell?
Provided a mesenchymal stem cell settles down right beside a damaged hair cell can it stimulate the damaged hair cell in a way that the overreaction stops?

Maybe @attheedgeofscience can give some input here.

Hi,
where did you guys read from a successful treatment through injecting stem cells.
Is there a relevant clinical study or "just" some patients report we all can't verify?
I think all these centers offering such risky/experimental and at least very expensive treatments should be engaged to proof their work on a industry standard.
Anyway, maybe there is some benefit, but we still don't know because it's no easy thing showing a causal working treatment.
I just ask, if this really works, why isn't it available in the US or in Europe?

 

[Reinier]

Is there a relevant clinical study or "just" some patients report we all can't verify?

That is just it. I don't think there is. If there is it is not widely published. Statements similar to "I think I can hear new sounds". Or even "I can hear new sounds". Really weird that something like that is not verified with an audio gram. I realise anyone can put any audiogram on the internet. So easy to have and audiogram before and after. But such a hugely important statement should make scientists very curious.

I think all these centers offering such risky/experimental and at least very expensive treatments should be engaged to proof their work on a industry standard.

Expensive for sure. But I am not sure if it is risky when they use your own stem cells (and not modified).
But with biology I am a genuine laymen.

I just ask, if this really works, why isn't it available in the US or in Europe?

It is "available" in Europe and America. In Germany I am not sure if it is available for hearing loss. In America it is.
the-stem-cell-center.com/component/content/article/39-deafness.html
This is also interesting to read (I think). It has to do with the blood brain barrier. We also have a blood cochlea barrier:
regenexx.com/injecting-stem-cells-iv-means-only-00005-reach-their-target-in-the-brain/

And we have seen this stem cell clinical trial before and it is ongoing:
clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02038972?term=stem+cell+hearing&rank=1
I am very interested to know if and when results are published.

I have seen documents from Beike biotechnology regarding stem cell therapy. It is very superficial Almost as if they do not want new "customers". Two documents on their website. beikebiotech.com/research/
For now I put my hope in Hearing Health Foundation, Action On Hearing Loss and different university's, but I am still very interested in the stem cell documents(and of course Novartis and Genvec). Until now I have not seen anything that convinces me enough to start saving money for a treatment.
Let someone explain why (where science is today) a stem cell therapy can work. With more depth than the documents from Beiki biotechnology. I would love to read this.

 

[RB2014]

That is just it. I don't think there is. If there is it is not widely published. Statements similar to "I think I can hear new sounds". Or even "I can hear new sounds". Really weird that something like that is not verified with an audio gram. I realise anyone can put any audiogram on the internet. So easy to have and audiogram before and after. But such a hugely important statement should make scientists very curious.

I have read some of the participants stories of what they do on that trial. They are doing full audiograms on that trial plus a lot more. It was several days of testing from what I remember. The people running the trial know exactly what is going on, but they are not releasing any results. We will all know eventually what the results are when they come out. I think the evidence points to some hearing restoration in some of the participants. I'm not sure how much information they are sharing with the participants, but I'm guessing not much which is why we are getting these stories.

I'm also willing to bet the participants have signed some type of confidentiality clause. Remember, this affects GenVec stock so any good or bad news that comes out will affect the companies health. The fact though that she could hear sounds now that she could not before is great news. The fact that she gained no new ability to understand words with this additional hearing is not so great news.
In my opinion, this will hoefully work about as well as they had hoped. Maybe a 10 to 30 db increase in some frequencies which really isnt that noticeable for most unless you have audiograms to back it up. I think this is the first step, not to develop a complete cure, but to see how well the gene therapy worked and what its side effects were. I'm hoping they can continue to experiment and tweak the formula and get better results.

 

[Foncky]

Yes, I understand this trial (GenVec) as a first experimental step too. Which is great though. This is the first time inner ear regeneration seems to occur in humans.

Sound Pharmaceuticals will be the next step I guess (SPI-5557), with a different method : http://soundpharma.com/pipeline/

The problem I see : SPI-5557 will target severe to profound hearing loss only. Shouldn't we make everything we can to convince them to include T and H sufferers in the trial ? (with or without hearing loss)

I mean, a few brand new supporting cells and hair cells might help in many cases.

 

[Reinier]

The people running the trial know exactly what is going on,

I don't doubt that for a minute. I regard these people as highly qualified. Naturally as in any profession there will be excellent and not so excellent "performers".

I'm also willing to bet the participants have signed some type of confidentiality clause. Remember, this affects GenVec stock so any good or bad news that comes out will affect the companies health.

That is actually something I have been hoping is the case and that makes perfect sense to me.

The fact though that she could hear sounds now that she could not before is great news.

I couldn't agree more. I have read articles where scientists state it is too early. They feel more needs to be known about regeneration in the cochlea. Perhaps scientists at GenVec are very bright and know more than expected.

The fact that she gained no new ability to understand words with this additional hearing is not so great news.

I wonder how long it takes for the brain to adapt. If you still have one good ear I wouldn't expect any adaptation in the brain. But on the other hand, the processes are so complicated. Perhaps the brain needs to adapt and it will improve in time.

Maybe a 10 to 30 db increase in some frequencies which really isnt that noticeable for most unless you have audiograms to back it up.

I will hear a 10 dB difference in my most damaged ear for sure. I would do a lot to gain 10 dB!! Let alone 30 DB.

The problem I see : SPI-5557 will target severe to profound hearing loss only.

That is a first step. If it works they understood the process and are able to fine tune it. In my opinion.

Shouldn't we make everything we can to convince them to include T and H sufferers in the trial ? (with or without hearing loss)

I firmly believe if science is able to regenerate parts in the cochlea, tinnitus and hyperacusis patients will benefit.
At least in my case tinnitus and hyperacusis is caused by NIHL and apparently it is in 90% of tinnitus patients.

 

[Foncky]

That is a first step. If it works they understood the process and are able to fine tune it. In my opinion.

I firmly believe if science is able to regenerate parts in the cochlea, tinnitus and hyperacusis patients will benefit.
At least in my case tinnitus and hyperacusis is caused by NIHL and apparently it is in 90% of tinnitus patients.

Agree. My idea is just to include T and H people in these studies right now. To change perspectives. T and H are very good reasons to achieve regeneration soon, as is severe to profound hearing loss.

 

[tomytl]

Yes, I understand this trial (GenVec) as a first experimental step too. Which is great though. This is the first time inner ear regeneration seems to occur in humans.

Sound Pharmaceuticals will be the next step I guess (SPI-5557), with a different method : http://soundpharma.com/pipeline/

The problem I see : SPI-5557 will target severe to profound hearing loss only. Shouldn't we make everything we can to convince them to include T and H sufferers in the trial ? (with or without hearing loss)

I mean, a few brand new supporting cells and hair cells might help in many cases.

SPI wasone of the first conpany with a regeneration program, so their discovery about a possible regenerative potential comes from the end of the 1990's
First company ever with a regenerative approach was Otogene, the splitted and one part founded SPI (Jonathan Kil).
The other one (Hubert Löwenheim) is now founder of Acousia Therapeutics (which might have sonething to do with the cooperation eith the Kyoto Inner ear Lab supported from Ingelheim Boehringer Pharma)
So we have this two approaches and then some other coming from Stanford and some coming from Harvard.
Genvec licensed from a dicovery made by scientists from University of Michigan (Yehoash Raphael)...
Maybe the Genvec approach using only Atoh1 is probably overhauled by new critical discoveries in the last 5 years.